Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: Asking for Undo  (Read 1468 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

jamfamsam

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 681
  • Respect: +1132
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2017, 07:22:31 pm »
+8

Stef should make a huge bet with you and then implement the feature and win the bet.
Logged
"There is no extra charge for awesomeness..."

ThetaSigma12

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1397
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1297
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2017, 08:11:09 pm »
0

I am willing to bet money on "automatic undo's for non-information-revealing misplays" never becoming a feature.

If the wager is high enough, I bet Stef would take you up on that.

EDIT: Gosh dang it ninja'd by a post on page 2.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1206
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1257
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2017, 08:15:14 pm »
+3

I am willing to bet money on "automatic undo's for non-information-revealing misplays" never becoming a feature.

If the wager is high enough, I bet Stef would take you up on that.

EDIT: Gosh dang it ninja'd by a post on page 2.

Only if you do 25 posts per page not the optimal 50 posts per page.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

dedicateddan

  • 2017 Dominion Online Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 358
  • Shuffle iT Username: dan brooks
  • Respect: +738
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2017, 01:07:09 am »
+2

Only if you do 25 posts per page not the optimal 50 posts per page.

Why not 2.71828...?
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +854
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2017, 01:18:20 am »
+10

Only if you do 25 posts per page not the optimal 50 posts per page.

Why not 2.71828...?

That would just be irrational.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2269
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +2632
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2017, 07:10:22 am »
+6

It should definitely be possible to request undos when information is revealed.  A common mistake is to play an action card (usually a cantrip) and then remember that you wanted to call a reserve from your tavern mat.  This, and other honest mistakes, should be undoable.

I put it to you that—instead of that—the Tavern mat prompts should be much more visible, rather than being hidden away in the log.

Look, we don't have to go past Smithy + Village to find a misclick that occurs with some regularity and is enough for me to want undos-even-with-info-reveal forever.

edit: and there are probably some interface things to be done to help in this case too, I know, but somehow I don't believe interface can solve all of the little mistakes people make. It would be great to someday in the future be proven wrong there.

I think that not having all these hurt feelings and blacklistings and people making these threads about undo etiquette is a much greater good than completely eliminating misclicks.

It’s just not, though.

Let’s not make the game shittier because some shitty people whine about it, PLEASE.

Let us play the game we want to play. The game where you can casually undo things with the consent of your opponent. We don’t ruin Dominion Online with an aggressive timer just because people whine about “playing slow” when you have to take 15 seconds to think about something, why should this be any different?
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9920
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +9969
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2017, 07:13:05 am »
+1

Let’s not make the game shittier

But it's already ShiT-tier.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4081
  • Respect: +4451
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2017, 08:20:37 am »
+1

I am willing to bet money on "automatic undo's for non-information-revealing misplays" never becoming a feature.

If the wager is high enough, I bet Stef would take you up on that.

EDIT: Gosh dang it ninja'd by a post on page 2.

Only if you do 25 posts per page not the optimal 50 posts per page.

Optimal for purposes that benefit from more posts on a page, but less optimal for purposes that benefit from less.

Example: Surfing fan card threads on mobile.

Dingan

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 958
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2017, 01:12:01 am »
+6

Kinda off topic -- more of a question about undo implementation -- but...

If I (1) do something that causes a shuffle, then (2) undo to before the shuffle, then (3) cause the shuffle to happen again, does the second shuffle shuffle the cards the same way as the first? And if so, what things that I do between (2) and (3) changes it? E.g. I imagine gaining a card completely changes the shuffle (but not sure), whereas taking a coin token or whatever would not affect it.
Logged

RTT

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +463
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2017, 01:56:10 am »
0

In my experience the shuffle becomes completly new generated.
Logged

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1538
  • Respect: +4177
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2017, 04:17:32 am »
+13

Kinda off topic -- more of a question about undo implementation -- but...

If I (1) do something that causes a shuffle, then (2) undo to before the shuffle, then (3) cause the shuffle to happen again, does the second shuffle shuffle the cards the same way as the first? And if so, what things that I do between (2) and (3) changes it? E.g. I imagine gaining a card completely changes the shuffle (but not sure), whereas taking a coin token or whatever would not affect it.

The game (currently) uses 1 random number generator instance. It's not used a lot in dominion; mostly for shuffling.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a village, end your turn, shuffle
-> the village will just take the place of the silver, the rest of the shuffle will be identical.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a Port, gain another Port, end your turn, shuffle
-> the number of cards in the shuffle has changed. This will lead to a completely new shuffle.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a Noble Brigand, give your opponent a Copper, end your turn, shuffle
-> the Noble Brigand will just take the place of the silver, the rest of the shuffle will be identical.

Suppose you buy a Silver, end your turn, shuffle | undo, buy a Noble Brigand, give your opponent a Copper and make them shuffle, end your turn, shuffle
-> the random numbers that were supposed to determine your shuffle now determine your opponents; yours comes after and will be completely new.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

RTT

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +463
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2017, 11:33:08 am »
+1

That doesnt comply with that one game where i played militia and ended my turn seeing a hand with Hermit 3C 1 Estate.

My Opponent then asked if he could undo and discard other card to millitia wich i granted. My new Hand was then Hermit and 4 Coppers.
Logged

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1538
  • Respect: +4177
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2017, 12:21:28 pm »
+5

That doesnt comply with that one game where i played militia and ended my turn seeing a hand with Hermit 3C 1 Estate.

My Opponent then asked if he could undo and discard other card to millitia wich i granted. My new Hand was then Hermit and 4 Coppers.

My guess is something else was different too, probably something you thought of as unimportant.
I could even be the order you played your treasures in. They would be cleaned up in a different order, and your shuffling would start differently.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

Tozar

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Shuffle iT Username: Tozar
  • Respect: +7
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2017, 11:33:20 am »
0

When I ask for an undo by clicking on the link for it, nothing happens.  Are there setting related to this, like does my opponent have an "auto-deny" set or something?
Logged

ackmondual

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 217
  • Respect: +119
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2017, 11:40:47 pm »
+1

Do you find it poor manners to be denied an undo?  There are situations where it is an obvious mistake, such as pressing the end turn button instead of the end actions button.

I have gotten back into the game recently since I left at the end of the iso days.  I haven't had problems with impolite players on .games until today when I had two players who refused undos.  I am fully aware that I might be the asshole by blocking those people, but I'm not aware of the conventions.  Is that not an asshole move to refuse a quick undo?  I'm happy to follow the norms of the community, no matter how cutthroat it is or not, but I want to know how people stand on refusing an undo.  Am I doing these players wrong by resigning and blocking them?  Is it normal to refuse an undo and still be someone people want to play with?

I can see games where I grant Undo even with them gleaming knowledge.  Some of the best and most fun games I've played were ones where I lost.
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1598
  • Respect: +1043
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 12:15:20 am »
+2

Do you find it poor manners to be denied an undo?  There are situations where it is an obvious mistake, such as pressing the end turn button instead of the end actions button.

I have gotten back into the game recently since I left at the end of the iso days.  I haven't had problems with impolite players on .games until today when I had two players who refused undos.  I am fully aware that I might be the asshole by blocking those people, but I'm not aware of the conventions.  Is that not an asshole move to refuse a quick undo?  I'm happy to follow the norms of the community, no matter how cutthroat it is or not, but I want to know how people stand on refusing an undo.  Am I doing these players wrong by resigning and blocking them?  Is it normal to refuse an undo and still be someone people want to play with?

I can see games where I grant Undo even with them gleaming knowledge.  Some of the best and most fun games I've played were ones where I lost.
If I didn't have fun in games where I lost, I would have never bought 10 boxes full of Dominion cards.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4081
  • Respect: +4451
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 06:06:20 am »
0

I recently ended my buy phase with 7$ and two buys left. I didn't ask for undo. On the other hand, it was one of the few games where it was clear I was going to win.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6421
  • Respect: +7025
    • View Profile
Re: Asking for Undo
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 12:56:30 pm »
0

I recently ended my buy phase with 7$ and two buys left. I didn't ask for undo. On the other hand, it was one of the few games where it was clear I was going to win.
Edge case: Estates and Duchies were gone, it was a sure thing that you wouldn't be able to shuffle again this game, and Wall was in the game.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.208 seconds with 20 queries.