Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All

Author Topic: Etiquette in Dominion Online  (Read 3894 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +1032
    • View Profile
Etiquette in Dominion Online
« on: October 31, 2017, 01:40:59 am »
+26

(After threatening to do so several times, I finally wrote down some of my thoughts on this. Let me know what you think. Feedback is appreciated).

Dominion Online Etiquette
or How to Not be Mad Online


Years ago, in a game of Carcassonne on Xbox Live, I played a city tile with a follower on it near my human opponent’s unfinished city. This is a standard move in Carcassonne – indeed it’s the whole basis of the game. Apparently he didn’t like that. In fact, he was so upset he unleashed the most profane, vulgar tirade I had ever heard directed at another human being. Over a game of Carcassonne. I was shocked, stunned. I subsequently muted all people who weren't on my friends list.

Online gaming doesn’t have to be that way. It can be as civil and courteous as face-to-face gaming1. With feedback from others, I’ve compiled here a list of dos and don’ts to hopefully help make Dominion Online a pleasant experience for all. I assume a 2-player game. Most of them apply equally well to multiplayer games.

Do Assume good faith. You've come to play a game of Dominion, and you're hoping to have a good time. In the absence of other evidence, assume that your opponent is in the same position.

Do say something at the start of the game. This doesn’t need to be a lengthy introduction, just a brief gesture that acknowledges that you are playing against another human. You can say ‘hi’, ‘gl hf’ (good luck, have fun!) or even offer an emoji handshake 🤝.

Don’t be offended if your opponent says nothing. Some people are playing on clients that don’t allow them to easily type in the chat window. Some have a limited vocabulary in your language. It’s also true that some people simply don’t like saying ‘hi’ to other people. Maybe they’re afraid of a chatty game?

Don’t chat your opponent to death if they don’t respond. Some people like chatty games, some people don’t. Try to figure this out and act accordingly.

Do let your opponent know if you need to step away for a moment. A simple ‘brb’ (‘be right back’) is almost universally understood.

Don’t try to change how quickly your opponent plays. If they are playing slowly in a deliberate attempt to force you to resign (‘slow-rolling’) then you should resign, blacklist and report them. If they are playing at a natural pace that is slower than you’d like, it’s impolite to hector them.

Do blacklist players you would rather not play against again.

Don’t whine about luck. A simple ‘ugh’ every now and then is certainly forgivable but claiming that your opponent is only winning because of unbelievable luck is not very respectful and probably a sign you should take a break.

Do acknowledge your opponent’s bad luck and your own good luck. You pulled Locusts and trashed their Overlord? “Ouch. Sorry. That’s harsh.” Be humble. Sometimes you are winning because of your unbelievable luck.

Do acknowledge the awesome or interesting things your opponent does. “Wow, good call on the second Raze!” or “That’s the best Pixie engine I’ve ever seen!” Again, not everyone likes a chatty game, but it’s a rare person that doesn’t like a compliment.

Do acknowledge your opponent at the end of the game, including when you resign. A common expression here is ‘gg’ – shorthand for ‘good game2.’ If you think your opponent played particularly well, a common shorthand is ‘wp’ for ‘well-played’.

Don’t say ‘gg’ before the end of the game unless you are going to resign immediately. In some gaming circles, ‘gg’ is interpreted as, “You’ve got this. I concede.” If you don’t follow a ‘gg’ with a resignation, your opponents may see it as taunting, poor sportsmanship, or a meta-gaming tactic3.

Do end the game quickly if you have the win in hand. Of course, you should make sure you have the win, but needlessly prolonging your turn to squeeze out a few more points is not very sporting.

1Because no one ever gets mad in person, right?
2Nothing is more awkward than complaining all game, pseudo-conceding and then winning. With your IRL gaming friends this might be an endearing foible (at least I hope so); outside the context of friendship it’s just annoying.
3There is a lot of debate about whether the winner should say ‘gg’ first, or if that is considered a form of poor sportsmanship or even taunting. Unfortunately, this can lead to a silent standoff at the end of the game where neither player says anything. Personally, I’d rather something be said, even if there’s a small chance of it being misinterpreted.

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 05:54:49 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
Logged

JW

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 643
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1109
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 02:00:02 am »
+9

Another reason why some people are not very chatty is that they may not know much English. Hard to respond to someone chatting in English if you don’t know the language! I don’t find an opponent resigning during my turn to be a problem- if I want to see how the turn would have gone, or even the turn after that, I can continue against a bot.
Logged

Skumpy

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 112
  • Shuffle iT Username: skumpy
  • Respect: +160
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 02:08:06 am »
+6

For the last "Don't", I feel that sometimes, it's faster to play some cards to be sure you have sufficient resources to win than it is to carefully count your hand to see if it's exactly enough for a 1 point victory. But really good overall, and it would be nice to see more players of all skill levels follow that point in particular; same as in sports, chess, etc, when the game's over, it's classy to end it quick  :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 02:32:12 am by Skumpy »
Logged
He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10140
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +10326
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 03:33:32 am »
+3

Do: acknowledge your opponent at the end of the game. A common convention is for the losing player to say ‘gg’ (good game) first, and the winner to respond in kind. The winner saying ‘gg’ first is seen in some circles as taunting or poor sportsmanship, especially if it’s prior to the end of the game. If you win and your opponent says nothing, a simple ‘thanks for the game’ is fine.

However, "thanks for the game" is probably going to be interpreted as "I'm not going to play another game".
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Polk5440

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1658
  • Respect: +1701
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 10:04:25 am »
+5

Do: Blacklist players you do not want to play against again.
Logged

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2527
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4168
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 10:08:37 am »
+6

Resigning during an opponent's turn is fine. They can continue with bots if they really want to click through their turn.
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

Polk5440

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1658
  • Respect: +1701
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 10:35:21 am »
+3

Don’t: whine about luck. A simple ‘ugh’ every now and then is warranted and certainly forgivable – and I would always allow a ‘ffs’ when Warrior trashes a Warrior or Sea Hag hags a Sea Hag – but claiming that your opponent is “a lucky boy” or is only winning because of unbelievable luck is not very respectful and probably a sign you should take a break.

Strike the parenthetical ("and I would always allow a ‘ffs’ when Warrior trashes a Warrior or Sea Hag hags a Sea Hag"). Not everyone would appreciate that comment. I certainly would not.

Quote
Do: acknowledge your opponent’s bad luck and your own good luck. You pulled Locusts from the Hex deck and trashed their Overlord? “Oh man, sorry. That’s harsh.” Be humble. Sometimes you are a lucky boy and you are winning mostly because of your unbelievable luck.

I would strike this point entirely or strike everything before "Be humble". If you keep it, say "lucky" instead of "a lucky boy".

Quote
Do: acknowledge your opponent at the end of the game. A common convention is for the losing player to say ‘gg’ (good game) first, and the winner to respond in kind. The winner saying ‘gg’ first is seen in some circles as taunting or poor sportsmanship, especially if it’s prior to the end of the game. If you win and your opponent says nothing, a simple ‘thanks for the game’ is fine.

Don’t: say ‘gg’ before the end of the game unless you are going to resign. In this context, ‘gg’ is usually interpreted as, “You’ve got this. I concede.” If you don’t follow this with a resignation, it may come across as a meta-gaming tactic2.

Keep the focus on politeness. If you insist on including something like this, I would rewrite as follows:

Do: Acknowledge your opponent at the end of the game.

Don’t: Say ‘gg’ before the end of the game, unless you are going to resign immediately. In some gaming circles ‘gg’ is interpreted as, “You’ve got this. I concede.” If you don’t follow a `gg' with a resignation, your opponents may see it as taunting, poor sportsmanship, or a meta-gaming tactic2.

Quote
Don’t: resign in the middle of your opponent’s turn. 

I agree, but others may not. It seems way less impolite than the other things on this list. Strike it.

Quote
Don’t: run up the score. Victory margin counts for nothing. If you can end the game quickly on your turn, do it. With rare exceptions, your opponent does not want or need to see your amazing engine one more time.

Strike or reword. "Victory margin counts for nothing" is a very ratings-implementation-specific statement.

Do: End the game quickly if you have the win in hand.

-----

Also, stylistically, I think it would be better to either capitalize the first word after the colon in each paragraph or remove the colon.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 01:45:31 pm by Polk5440 »
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1823
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1850
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 11:01:58 am »
+1

Is it possibly worth being more verbose with the abbreviations, like how you were with "gl hf"? Someone reading an article about online gaming etiquette may not know what "gg" or "ffs" stand for.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 173
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +202
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 11:10:58 am »
0

Is it possibly worth being more verbose with the abbreviations, like how you were with "gl hf"? Someone reading an article about online gaming etiquette may not know what "gg" or "ffs" stand for.

Yeah that's me.  I don't know ffs.  Love dominion, so I play online.  Other than that, I don't spend much time online. 
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3410
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2006
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 11:21:57 am »
0

Is it possibly worth being more verbose with the abbreviations, like how you were with "gl hf"? Someone reading an article about online gaming etiquette may not know what "gg" or "ffs" stand for.

Yeah that's me.  I don't know ffs.  Love dominion, so I play online.  Other than that, I don't spend much time online.



ffs: for f***'s sake

I think that's what it stands for. Not a very pretty thing to say.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 173
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +202
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 11:25:49 am »
+3

Is it possibly worth being more verbose with the abbreviations, like how you were with "gl hf"? Someone reading an article about online gaming etiquette may not know what "gg" or "ffs" stand for.

Yeah that's me.  I don't know ffs.  Love dominion, so I play online.  Other than that, I don't spend much time online.


ffs: for f***'s sake

I think that's what it stands for. Not a very pretty thing to say.

So many of my games make sense now! Thanks
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10140
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +10326
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 11:27:21 am »
+8

It stands for forum.fominionstrategy.com.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +596
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 11:40:42 am »
+4

One thing that annoys me is people starting to talk during my turn.
It interrupts the flow.
I try my best to only chat during my own turn.
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10140
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +10326
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 11:58:01 am »
+6

One thing that annoys me is people starting to talk during my turn.
It interrupts the flow.
I try my best to only chat during my own turn.

I, on the other hand, have been trying to only chat during my opponent's turn so that I don't waste their time (and mine as well) typing instead of playing. It never even hit me that it can bother someone.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1715
  • Respect: +1726
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 12:28:24 pm »
+13

I strive to always be polite, but some find it rude if I talk during their turn, and others find it rude if I talk on my own turn. Unfortunately, there are also folks who find it rude if I don't talk at all. The only solution is to quit dominion. :(

Chappy7

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 173
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +202
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2017, 01:05:36 pm »
0

One thing that annoys me is people starting to talk during my turn.
It interrupts the flow.
I try my best to only chat during my own turn.

I, on the other hand, have been trying to only chat during my opponent's turn so that I don't waste their time (and mine as well) typing instead of playing. It never even hit me that it can bother someone.

Same.  It seems to work when we both just respond during the other's turn.  I don't see how this is a problem. 
Logged

tripwire

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 268
  • Respect: +167
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2017, 01:30:00 pm »
+4

Generally I agree with these points, and think it's useful that such an article exists.

That being said, this rubbed me the wrong way:

Sometimes you are a lucky boy

Generally, I think it's a good idea to be as inclusive as possible, especially when discussing a hobby that is often assumed to be less welcoming to women.


On another note, when is it appropriate to discuss strategy, if ever? Sometimes I want to give advice because I genuinely want to help someone become a better player, but I can see how this might inevitably come off as condescending to some people. Is it just always a bad idea unless you are praising your opponent or criticizing your own play?
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3410
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2006
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 01:41:25 pm »
+2

I strive to always be polite, but some find it rude if I talk during their turn, and others find it rude if I talk on my own turn. Unfortunately, there are also folks who find it rude if I don't talk at all. The only solution is to quit dominion. :(

Or players can wear signs that specify their preferred rules of communication.

Example:
- greetings, please
- talk to me on my turn
- always say "gg" at the end of the game
     - unless I am raging at you

Or, you know, live with the fact that you are rude sometimes.

The worst is when I see a "gg" or a "well played" right as I click the button to leave the table. That makes me feel awful.
Logged

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +596
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2017, 02:12:50 pm »
+2

One thing that annoys me is people starting to talk during my turn.
It interrupts the flow.
I try my best to only chat during my own turn.

I, on the other hand, have been trying to only chat during my opponent's turn so that I don't waste their time (and mine as well) typing instead of playing. It never even hit me that it can bother someone.

Same.  It seems to work when we both just respond during the other's turn.  I don't see how this is a problem.
This is a small annoyance for me, not a big problem.
Often they start talking in the middle of a long turn or during buy phase thinking time.
I then lose concentration at the chat ping and have to start counting or planning buys again.
It also feel rude to me not to respond, so I think about responding (even if I don't end up replying) before continuing my turn.
I'm not claiming to be right.
Just trying to show that etiquette is complicated.
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +1032
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 02:20:00 pm »
+1

Lots of good feedback so far. Thank you and keep it coming.

I will respond to a few things here and then incorporate some changes into a new version later this evening or tomorrow.

That being said, this rubbed me the wrong way:

Sometimes you are a lucky boy

Generally, I think it's a good idea to be as inclusive as possible, especially when discussing a hobby that is often assumed to be less welcoming to women.

In my first draft, at the point where I say it's not respectful to say "lucky boy", I actually pointed out that it is doubly inconsiderate to assume your opponent is male. Sounds like I should've left this in. The callback to "lucky boy" was meant as a continuation of that criticism, but that's too subtle and should be changed.

ffs: for f***'s sake

I think that's what it stands for. Not a very pretty thing to say.

Agree. It is incongruous of me to complain about vulgarity in my introduction and then rationalize using this expression. I will remove it.

--Lots of helpful suggestions--

Also, stylistically, I think it would be better to either capitalize the first word after the colon in each paragraph or remove the colon.

Thank you for these. I will incorporate many of them, and agree on your stylistic point.

However, "thanks for the game" is probably going to be interpreted as "I'm not going to play another game".

Excellent point. I hadn't considered that because I typically play one game against an opponent and then go back to automatch. Maybe some people find THAT rude.


Also: I should say that I've broken most of these recommendations at one point or another, but I strive not to break them, and I think that's part of what motivated me to do this.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 02:21:28 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +1032
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2017, 02:24:05 pm »
0

On another note, when is it appropriate to discuss strategy, if ever? Sometimes I want to give advice because I genuinely want to help someone become a better player, but I can see how this might inevitably come off as condescending to some people. Is it just always a bad idea unless you are praising your opponent or criticizing your own play?

Oh, I meant to say something about this, too. This is really tough and I don't know what, if anything, to recommend.

I can say that some of the best advice I've received in games has been after I made a comment or complaint about bad luck.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
  • Respect: +1032
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 02:27:02 pm »
0

Another reason why some people are not very chatty is that they may not know much English. Hard to respond to someone chatting in English if you don’t know the language!

Yes, of course. I wanted to discuss language issues in the first point, but ultimately left it out. I should definitely include it one of those two places.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1114
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1699
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2017, 04:05:18 pm »
+2

I think something deserves to be said on the issue of speed.
I play quite slowly (well, slow when compared to less slow players anyway) and i have received some rage from players complaining that I'm "slow as fuck" and "a pain to play against", among other things. I think playing unrated games against inexperienced players leaves me more exposed to this sort of thing.

Anyway, if for any reason you didn't quite like your opponent's company, stay quiet and silently blacklist them. No need to be rude.
Logged

Puk

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
  • Shuffle iT Username: Puk
  • Respect: +67
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2017, 05:58:27 pm »
0

Is it possibly worth being more verbose with the abbreviations, like how you were with "gl hf"? Someone reading an article about online gaming etiquette may not know what "gg" or "ffs" stand for.

Indeed, i like to see a blog post or something with a nice overview of all those abbreviatons. In the beginning when i was playing online, and i saw "gg", i just tought my opponent accidentally hit those keys an their keyboard or something. After a while i realised a lot of people were doing that so i looked up what it meant, but it's actually not really a simple thing to google, it would be nice that if i google "dominion gg" or something would lead me to a list of abbreviatons.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1693
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Etiquette in Dominion Online
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 06:36:58 pm »
0

I feel like all of the Dos are good things to do, but it's not bad or impolite to not do them. While it's polite to chat to your opponent/s if they're up for it, there's no obligation to do so.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All
 

Page created in 0.121 seconds with 21 queries.