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Author Topic: Cultural references in Nocturne  (Read 2380 times)

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crj

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2017, 01:13:53 pm »
+3

Raider: No particular reference here; this is just a bandit who comes at night, attacks your town, runs off with the good stuff. The effect is pleasantly resonant with Pillage, which hey, is what raiders do.
I keep making the association from Night Raider to Knight Rider, but that cultural reference is probably accidental.
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DG

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2017, 02:15:42 pm »
0

For most of my life I was told a "cobbler" is a shoemaker, and then recently I find out not only are they different, but that "cobbler" had negative connotations attached to it (especially from the viewpoint of the shoemakers). I don't think I'd ever connected the phrase "cobble something together" with the profession of repairing shoes, but it totally makes sense.

Back in Celtic times the cobblers were respected craftsmen. I seem to remember that Lugh of the Long Arm (who was in some sense a 'king of the gods') was a skilled cobbler and craftsman.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2017, 02:29:45 pm »
+6

I found this relevant quote from Julius Caesar, full of wordplay:

Quote
Second Commoner. Truly, sir, in respect of a fine workman, I am but, as you would say, a cobbler.

Marullus. But what trade art thou? answer me directly.

Second Commoner. A trade, sir, that, I hope, I may use with a safe conscience; which is, indeed, sir, a mender of bad soles.

Marullus. What trade, thou knave? thou naughty knave, what trade?

Second Commoner. Nay, I beseech you, sir, be not out with me: yet, if you be out, sir, I can mend you.

Marullus. What meanest thou by that? mend me, thou saucy fellow!

Second Commoner. Why, sir, cobble you.

Flavius. Thou art a cobbler, art thou?

Second Commoner. Truly, sir, all that I live by is with the awl: I meddle with no tradesman's matters, nor women's matters, but with awl. I am, indeed, sir, surgeon to old shoes; when they are in great danger, I recover them. As proper men as ever trod upon neat's leather have gone upon my handiwork.
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Gazbag

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2017, 03:38:40 pm »
+2

I found this relevant quote from Julius Caesar, full of wordplay:

Quote
Second Commoner. Truly, sir, in respect of a fine workman, I am but, as you would say, a cobbler.

Marullus. But what trade art thou? answer me directly.

Second Commoner. A trade, sir, that, I hope, I may use with a safe conscience; which is, indeed, sir, a mender of bad soles.

Marullus. What trade, thou knave? thou naughty knave, what trade?

Second Commoner. Nay, I beseech you, sir, be not out with me: yet, if you be out, sir, I can mend you.

Marullus. What meanest thou by that? mend me, thou saucy fellow!

Second Commoner. Why, sir, cobble you.

Flavius. Thou art a cobbler, art thou?

Second Commoner. Truly, sir, all that I live by is with the awl: I meddle with no tradesman's matters, nor women's matters, but with awl. I am, indeed, sir, surgeon to old shoes; when they are in great danger, I recover them. As proper men as ever trod upon neat's leather have gone upon my handiwork.

I still always say beware the ides of March whenever I play a Soothsayer
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navical

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2017, 07:00:54 am »
+1

Tragic Hero: This is a general reference to the dramatic archetype of a hero who begins prosperous but falls to ruin through his own mistakes and actions (not usually villainy). Famous examples include Oedipus, who accidentally fulfilled a prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother; and Hamlet, who embarked on a worthy quest for revenge but whose recklessness leads to the death of most of the play's characters. Likewise, as soon as things are getting really good for you, this Tragic Hero dies, but at least you get to inherit his Treasure! The crows in the illustration are omens of death or bad luck.
i feel this is missing the similarity to Hero.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2017, 05:42:06 pm »
+1

Cobbler is the most thematic card in Dominion.

Except for a major anachronism, I think Counterfeit should be on short list of cards with high theme-mechanism integration.

Here's why: the way you counterfeit digital money is (typically) by double-spending it. What does Counterfeit do? Why, it lets you spend play a Treasure twice, and it gives you 2 buys instead of 1. That looks a lot like double-spending to me.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2017, 05:52:43 pm »
+3

Cobbler is the most thematic card in Dominion.

Except for a major anachronism, I think Counterfeit should be on short list of cards with high theme-mechanism integration.

Here's why: the way you counterfeit digital money is (typically) by double-spending it. What does Counterfeit do? Why, it lets you spend play a Treasure twice, and it gives you 2 buys instead of 1. That looks a lot like double-spending to me.

No anachronism needed. Counterfeiters would use the metal from genuine coins to cover/plate less valuable metals.

So the effect is the same: destroy a genuine piece of money to make counterfeit copies of it and increase your spending power.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/themes/money/fakes_and_forgeries.aspx

Quote
In medieval England, that process was known as ‘multiplying the coin’ since it could use one genuine coin to create lots of fakes.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2017, 11:04:06 am »
+1

So the effect is the same: destroy a genuine piece of money to make counterfeit copies of it and increase your spending power.

I know this isn't Really Bad Card Ideas, but here you go:

Counterfeiter
$4 — Action
Trash a Silver from your hand. If you do, your Coppers produce $2 this turn.

I mean, yeah, Counterfeit makes your Copper "worth more" by playing it twice, and you trash some treasure, but I think the double-spending analogy works much better, and the physical-counterfeiting is better analogized by this card.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2017, 11:33:59 am »
+1

So the effect is the same: destroy a genuine piece of money to make counterfeit copies of it and increase your spending power.

I know this isn't Really Bad Card Ideas, but here you go:

Counterfeiter
$4 — Action
Trash a Silver from your hand. If you do, your Coppers produce $2 this turn.

I mean, yeah, Counterfeit makes your Copper "worth more" by playing it twice, and you trash some treasure, but I think the double-spending analogy works much better, and the physical-counterfeiting is better analogized by this card.

I think you could do something like:

Counterfeiter
$4 — Action
Trash a treasure from your hand. If you do, you may play any treasure this turn as if it were that treasure.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2017, 05:49:08 pm »
0

I think you could do something like:

Counterfeiter
$4 — Action
Trash a treasure from your hand. If you do, you may play any treasure this turn as if it were that treasure.
That's a cool generalization, and it might be not-half-bad. First the crazy rules edge case: If I trash a Crown, can I play Copper-as-Crown in my action phase? I think yes. What if I Inheritance Crown and trash an Estate (or some other inheritable treasure—for example... uh, there aren't any)?

Second, if I play a Copper from hand as Venture, and that Venture digs up a Silver, can I play that Silver as a Venture too?

On a engine board with Horn of Plenty, being behind on the Horn split seems somewhat less of a problem, at least if you have a reasonable amount of other treasure lying around. It can also be interesting with Bank.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Cultural references in Nocturne
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2017, 01:10:55 am »
+3

Quote from: Donald X. link=topic=17955.msg734732#msg734732
Gradually the set acquired two themes: "spooky" and Celtic mythology. It seemed okay to go for both at once; they overlap a little.

If only we got a Dullahan card...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dullahan

EDIT:
 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 01:18:00 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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