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Author Topic: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer  (Read 5705 times)

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J Reggie

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #100 on: October 28, 2017, 11:23:24 am »
+2

Can a necromanced Graverobber gain itself from the trash?

I mean he fails to move himself, the rules state, but he can gain a card from the trash which just happens to be himself, right?

I mean when does the „leaving it there” resolves?

I am interested in an official answer to this question
Donald X answered it in this thread. Yes, the necromanced Graverobber can gain itself.

Okay, so let me parse this.
- "leaving it there" just refers to not moving it from the trash to your play area.
-Any card effect that tries to move itself normally expects itself to be in play (Encampment, Mining Village, etc) and thus loses track, and fails to move it.  This is separate from the "leaving it there" clause.
-Any card effect that's actually looking for something in the trash (Graverobber, etc) will find itself, and be able to move itself.

I'm assuming you turn it face up again when it leaves the trash. ;)

Not if you're gaining it with Graverobber!

xyz123

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #101 on: October 28, 2017, 11:28:14 am »
0

Necromancer + Procession = Crazy Fun
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Jeebus

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #102 on: October 28, 2017, 02:15:46 pm »
0

I'm assuming you turn it face up again when it leaves the trash. ;)

I know it was a half-jokey question, but I had to think about this a little bit. When you gain a card, it really doesn't have a facing. If you gain it to your deck, it's put face-down, if to your discard pile - face-up, if to your hand - neither I guess...

Donald X.

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #103 on: October 28, 2017, 05:18:13 pm »
+4

I'm not sure about how the art-making process works, is there a step where the pubblisher can reject a work for being too bad? I mean, we know he can do better than this.
It's varied over the years.

At first they just drew stuff from the name. These days they get a terse description, trying not to limit what they do much, but covering some issues: making it clear what the card name means; getting us women on cards; avoiding certain cases I have singled out, like there are two people and you don't know which one is the one that card is referring to (yes it still comes up), or the card is a treasure but you see some stuff happening. For Nocturne of course all the notes specified day/night.

At first it just all happened and I saw the results. These days I get to see a lot of sketches though not all of them. I can say, "that isn't what I meant." Sometimes you can miss stuff from the sketch, and be sad later. Some artists are generous and will offer up more than one sketch to let you pick from. There is a chance to ask for changes in a final piece, but it's harder, especially if the change you want is "something completely different please."

For most sets Jay assigned art to whatever artists. For Nocturne I got to do initial assignments of art to artists (then if they couldn't do it, Jay reassigned the art, to whoever was extra available). I cut a few artists I didn't like, and tried to pair up artists with pieces I thought they'd do well on. I brought up a few artists who hadn't worked for us in a while, and a couple of them were available. Jay brought in a few new people to try them out.

Overall it did not work out perfectly, but uh, not for lack of trying.
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Donald X.

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #104 on: October 28, 2017, 05:19:10 pm »
+1

I'm assuming you turn it face up again when it leaves the trash. ;)
Being face down only applies while it's in the trash.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #105 on: October 28, 2017, 05:47:46 pm »
0

I wonder if this makes an endless turn possible, when Graverobber/Lurker is in the Kingdom.
Won't you eventually run out of Necromancers to play?

Ferry Graverobber, then trash a Graverobber and a Lurker. Now Band of Misfits can do everything that Necromancer can do, and vice versa. Do you think BoM enables endless turns? If so, how?

Note that Necromancer 2nd-order trashes removes from the game exiles turns the played cards face down, making them no longer Necromancable.

I came up with an Ambassador/Villa/Bonfire loop; the full combo is 9 cards, several of which cost less than BoM. The 10th card in the kingdom could be BoM, and it could imitate some of my combo components, so I guess in that sense BoM does enable endless turns. However, as a general rule the number of cards not in play tends to go down during your turn, to a lower limit of 0, and BoM doesn't violate that general rule. (Bonfire and Mandarin do.) Necromancer also doesn't violate this general rule, so I don't see why it should help you go infinite any better than, say, BoM (or Village or Smithy).

There's a second general rule that cards in the trash stay in the trash (and thus can't be played). Trashed-face-down is just a second trash pile which satisfies this rule, so I would guess Necromancer could at most double a finite effect, not make it go infinite. Note that Rogue, Graverobber and Lurker not only violate this rule, they put the de-trashed cards back in your deck (uh, discard) which Necromancer doesn't do. This makes me skeptical about the other way Necromancer maybe has loop potential.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #106 on: October 28, 2017, 05:57:49 pm »
+1

I Throne a Necromancer and play Zombie Mason and Zombie Spy, turning them face down. Then I play a Lurker.

Can I choose to gain the Zombie Spy? May I look at the face down trashed cards—which sounds like a wrong interpretation of "face down"—or do I have to pick a face down card, hoping I remembered correctly which is which? Are you required to shuffle the face-down trashed cards whenever you turn an additional trashed card face down? (That sounds like a terrible rule.)
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Donald X.

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #107 on: October 28, 2017, 06:44:59 pm »
+5

I Throne a Necromancer and play Zombie Mason and Zombie Spy, turning them face down. Then I play a Lurker.

Can I choose to gain the Zombie Spy? May I look at the face down trashed cards—which sounds like a wrong interpretation of "face down"—or do I have to pick a face down card, hoping I remembered correctly which is which? Are you required to shuffle the face-down trashed cards whenever you turn an additional trashed card face down? (That sounds like a terrible rule.)
You can look at the face down cards. They are just face down to track which ones you've Necromancer'd this turn.
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mameluke

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #108 on: October 29, 2017, 02:15:00 pm »
0

I Throne a Necromancer and play Zombie Mason and Zombie Spy, turning them face down. Then I play a Lurker.

Can I choose to gain the Zombie Spy? May I look at the face down trashed cards—which sounds like a wrong interpretation of "face down"—or do I have to pick a face down card, hoping I remembered correctly which is which? Are you required to shuffle the face-down trashed cards whenever you turn an additional trashed card face down? (That sounds like a terrible rule.)
You can look at the face down cards. They are just face down to track which ones you've Necromancer'd this turn.

What if you gain a face-down card during your turn, and later trash it during that same turn? Can a Necromancer play that card from the trash during that turn?
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Jeebus

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #109 on: October 29, 2017, 02:43:19 pm »
+3

What if you gain a face-down card during your turn, and later trash it during that same turn? Can a Necromancer play that card from the trash during that turn?

Yes, for at least two reasons.

Simple reason: When you trash a card, it's put in the trash face-up.

Less simple reason: Similar questions have been asked before related to cards moving. Once a card moves out of the trash, there's potentially no way to know whether it's the same card when it's trashed later. (This is related to the reason for the rule that you can resolve the same Reaction from your hand several times to the same thing: There's no way for the other players, sometimes even for you, to know whether it's the same card.)

Gherald

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #110 on: October 29, 2017, 02:54:04 pm »
0

Right. Perfectly reasonable.

I would also have accepted: "When you try to Necro the same card a second time during your turn, the stress causes its bones to break and fall apart, so you tear up the card and can't use it anymore."
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enfynet

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #111 on: October 29, 2017, 03:05:06 pm »
+1

Dominion: Legacy?
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hypercube

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #112 on: October 30, 2017, 11:20:29 am »
+2

Overall it did not work out perfectly, but uh, not for lack of trying.
So far I've enjoyed the art a lot; I think Nocturne is on pace to be the prettiest expansion. The little callbacks to earlier cards are especially neat.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #113 on: October 30, 2017, 11:57:21 am »
+2

I'm not sure about how the art-making process works, is there a step where the pubblisher can reject a work for being too bad? I mean, we know he can do better than this.
It's varied over the years.

At first they just drew stuff from the name. These days they get a terse description, trying not to limit what they do much, but covering some issues: making it clear what the card name means; getting us women on cards; avoiding certain cases I have singled out, like there are two people and you don't know which one is the one that card is referring to (yes it still comes up), or the card is a treasure but you see some stuff happening. For Nocturne of course all the notes specified day/night.

At first it just all happened and I saw the results. These days I get to see a lot of sketches though not all of them. I can say, "that isn't what I meant." Sometimes you can miss stuff from the sketch, and be sad later. Some artists are generous and will offer up more than one sketch to let you pick from. There is a chance to ask for changes in a final piece, but it's harder, especially if the change you want is "something completely different please."

For most sets Jay assigned art to whatever artists. For Nocturne I got to do initial assignments of art to artists (then if they couldn't do it, Jay reassigned the art, to whoever was extra available). I cut a few artists I didn't like, and tried to pair up artists with pieces I thought they'd do well on. I brought up a few artists who hadn't worked for us in a while, and a couple of them were available. Jay brought in a few new people to try them out.

Overall it did not work out perfectly, but uh, not for lack of trying.

Maybe we could copy this to the Interview thread? Is there a better way of doing that than quote-posting it?
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SuperHans

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #114 on: October 30, 2017, 12:56:54 pm »
+1

Overall it did not work out perfectly, but uh, not for lack of trying.
So far I've enjoyed the art a lot; I think Nocturne is on pace to be the prettiest expansion. The little callbacks to earlier cards are especially neat.
I second this sentiment. Overall, the art has been very good. There are always hits and misses with each expansion, but it seems like over time there have been more hits and less misses.
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Gazbag

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #115 on: October 30, 2017, 08:23:50 pm »
+7

This is pretty cool Farmers Market, you can get the points without having to trash your Market.
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Chappy7

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #116 on: October 31, 2017, 01:16:14 pm »
0

This is pretty cool Farmers Market, you can get the points without having to trash your Market.

lt would also work with pillage right? It says "trash this" first, but it doesn't say "if you do" or anything like that. 
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markusin

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #117 on: October 31, 2017, 01:37:54 pm »
+2

This is pretty cool Farmers Market, you can get the points without having to trash your Market.

lt would also work with pillage right? It says "trash this" first, but it doesn't say "if you do" or anything like that.

Yes. I even got the "pleasure" of having such a game turn up online.

Embargo works too.
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filovirus

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #118 on: November 03, 2017, 10:34:30 pm »
+2

Are the Zombies Anachronistic? Seems like most of the card names are pretty good at being accurate. However, Zombies as we know them are a more modern term. Shouldn't the cards be called "Revenant Spy", "Revenant Mason", and "Revenant Apprentice"? The term revenant would fit better in the Dominion world.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #119 on: November 03, 2017, 10:54:29 pm »
+1

Are the Zombies Anachronistic? Seems like most of the card names are pretty good at being accurate. However, Zombies as we know them are a more modern term. Shouldn't the cards be called "Revenant Spy", "Revenant Mason", and "Revenant Apprentice"? The term revenant would fit better in the Dominion world.

Looks like “revenant” isn’t very much older than “zombie”. “Undead” might have been more appropriate and timeless. Oh well.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Bonus Preview #5: Necromancer
« Reply #120 on: November 03, 2017, 11:05:33 pm »
+3

Are the Zombies Anachronistic?

The time-traveling Groundskeeper brought the idea of Zombies back to the Time of Dominion.
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