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Author Topic: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire  (Read 4591 times)

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LaLight

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2017, 02:45:09 pm »
+3

Shouldn't an Exorcist be getting rid of Spirits from your deck?  Or maybe Exorcist should be Medium (or something that summons spirits)?  :P

I suppose Exorcist is removing Spirits from their piles...

He is removing a Ghost from that possessed Mountebank. Mountebank dies, Ghost continues wandering around
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Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

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ozyx

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2017, 03:37:34 pm »
+2

Shouldn't an Exorcist be getting rid of Spirits from your deck?  Or maybe Exorcist should be Medium (or something that summons spirits)?  :P

I suppose Exorcist is removing Spirits from their piles...

He is removing a Ghost from that possessed Mountebank. Mountebank dies, Ghost continues wandering around
Maybe Exorcist should cancel Possession. ;)
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Jeebus

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2017, 03:49:12 pm »
0

But Vampire doesn't "travel" - it just swaps back and forth between two things. And Vampire doesn't need to remind you to exchange because it is mandatory and immediate when you play the card. For Travellers, there are often effects that care if you have other Travellers in play, and most produce some some resource, so they can't exchange immediately.

Yeah, I see that it's a flavor thing (no "traveling"), but that hasn't been a defining factor of these things in Dominion before. You're right that the arrow is more needed as a reminder on the Traveller cards. But I don't think "not needed as a reminder" is a good enough reason for inconsistency.

LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2017, 03:52:10 pm »
+2

But Vampire doesn't "travel" - it just swaps back and forth between two things. And Vampire doesn't need to remind you to exchange because it is mandatory and immediate when you play the card. For Travellers, there are often effects that care if you have other Travellers in play, and most produce some some resource, so they can't exchange immediately.

Yeah, I see that it's a flavor thing (no "traveling"), but that hasn't been a defining factor of these things in Dominion before. You're right that the arrow is more needed as a reminder on the Traveller cards. But I don't think "not needed as a reminder" is a good enough reason for inconsistency.

I think it probably is. The whole point of the reminder is that you don't exchange Travellers right when you play them. You do exchange Vampire and Bat immediately, so no reminder is necessary.
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Jeebus

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2017, 04:08:58 pm »
0

Yeah, I see that it's a flavor thing (no "traveling"), but that hasn't been a defining factor of these things in Dominion before. You're right that the arrow is more needed as a reminder on the Traveller cards. But I don't think "not needed as a reminder" is a good enough reason for inconsistency.

I think it probably is. The whole point of the reminder is that you don't exchange Travellers right when you play them. You do exchange Vampire and Bat immediately, so no reminder is necessary.

As I stated before, the characteristic of a Traveller card was that it can be exchanged into another card. But now that characteristic is shared by non-Traveller cards too. So what is a Traveller now? I know, it's a card that needs to remind you that it can be exchanged!

tastor

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #80 on: October 27, 2017, 04:18:44 pm »
+1

As I stated before, the characteristic of a Traveller card was that it can be exchanged into another card. But now that characteristic is shared by non-Traveller cards too. So what is a Traveller now? I know, it's a card that needs to remind you that it can be exchanged!

Cards that could be exchanged for other cards were in Dominion as of Dark Ages. Travellers are cards that upgrade over multiple turns, and have the option of upgrading at the end of a turn they were played (other exchangers just have clauses on when they can/must exchange)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #81 on: October 27, 2017, 04:21:53 pm »
+4

Yeah, I see that it's a flavor thing (no "traveling"), but that hasn't been a defining factor of these things in Dominion before. You're right that the arrow is more needed as a reminder on the Traveller cards. But I don't think "not needed as a reminder" is a good enough reason for inconsistency.

I think it probably is. The whole point of the reminder is that you don't exchange Travellers right when you play them. You do exchange Vampire and Bat immediately, so no reminder is necessary.

As I stated before, the characteristic of a Traveller card was that it can be exchanged into another card. But now that characteristic is shared by non-Traveller cards too. So what is a Traveller now? I know, it's a card that needs to remind you that it can be exchanged!

I think that, more specifically, Travellers were the chains of cards that were in Adventures. There could theoretically be more later, and if so they'll probably be more similar to Peasant and Page than Vampire is. Is my guess.

Really you're looking at this backwards. It's not, here's the concept of Traveller, let's define it and hew to it slavishly when making these Traveller lines. It's, hey here's a cool idea of a series of cards that transform in a line. Let's give them a type and this arrow to help remind you to do and also so that you can refer to them easily as a group. (Travellers could have had their own color, did you know? Mine were briefly cyan.) And then why give Vampire that type? No reminder is necessary and it's not even close to the same concept. I don't even think we considered using the Traveller type on Vampire, and I don't regret it.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #82 on: October 27, 2017, 04:25:02 pm »
+2

I think that, more specifically, Travellers were the chains of cards that were in Adventures. There could theoretically be more later, and if so they'll probably be more similar to Peasant and Page than Vampire is. Is my guess.

Really you're looking at this backwards. It's not, here's the concept of Traveller, let's define it and hew to it slavishly when making these Traveller lines. It's, hey here's a cool idea of a series of cards that transform in a line. Let's give them a type and this arrow to help remind you to do and also so that you can refer to them easily as a group. (Travellers could have had their own color, did you know? Mine were briefly cyan.) And then why give Vampire that type? No reminder is necessary and it's not even close to the same concept. I don't even think we considered using the Traveller type on Vampire, and I don't regret it.
Yes, we did not for a moment consider making Vampire a Traveller. We did mess around with the order of abilities to try to make sure people remembered to do everything.

If there had been several things that toggled form like Vampire, probably they would have gotten a new type to group them together.
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markusin

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #83 on: October 27, 2017, 04:25:39 pm »
+1

As I stated before, the characteristic of a Traveller card was that it can be exchanged into another card. But now that characteristic is shared by non-Traveller cards too. So what is a Traveller now? I know, it's a card that needs to remind you that it can be exchanged!

Cards that could be exchanged for other cards were in Dominion as of Dark Ages. Travellers are cards that upgrade over multiple turns, and have the option of upgrading at the end of a turn they were played (other exchangers just have clauses on when they can/must exchange)

The Dark Ages cards didn't use the "Exchange" keyword, allowing Scheme to save your Hermit from being trashed despite gaining a Madman.

The Travellers exchange as part of an"discard this from play" clause. The Traveller type is sort of a reminder that you can exchange the traveller when it leaves play. Vampire doesn't need this because the exchange is part of the on-play effect.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2017, 11:56:46 am »
0

As good as Ghost is, trashing a $5 is a big opportunity cost, especially when you would want to keep that $5 around as payload for the Ghost; although an advantage of Exorcist being a night card is that Ghost skips right over it.

Anyway I'll make an early prediction and say the Exorcist will be in the same category as Develop and Counting House; occasionally great but ignorable on most boards.

Trashing a $5 isnít a big opportunity cost when you have a Necromancer and can still play it from the trash.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2017, 06:12:25 pm »
0

I'm a player from China, not familiar with western mythology. I try to find the connection between Pixie and Goat in Google and Wikipedia, but nothing was found. Could anybody tell me why they are a couple of Kingdom-Heirloom cards here?
There's not really a connection. The mythology in this set is mostly Celtic. The people who believed in faeries were peasants; they'd have goats. The things the faeries did involved everyday life.
Thank you! I have to say this expansion has so many difficult things about western culture for me to understand.
Thanks for raising this question; I didn't see any connection either. I like knowing the answer, and I think it's a solid one.

I'm a westerner of the kind who's more familiar with Newton and Montesquieu than Shakespeare and the Bible, i.e. more science and political history than mythologies and the narrative arts, so I too wondered whether there was some connection I was unaware of.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2017, 06:28:24 pm »
+1

After many Nocturne games over the weekend, I think Pixie is my favorite of the Fate cards. Fishing for the effect you want and then doubling it is nice for the low cost.
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markusin

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2017, 07:32:24 pm »
0

After many Nocturne games over the weekend, I think Pixie is my favorite of the Fate cards. Fishing for the effect you want and then doubling it is nice for the low cost.

Yes, Pixie is a cool Fate card, but existing in the context of other Fate cards is important. Some Boons are very often skipped over with Pixie, so having cards like Blessed Village and Idol that bring all Boons into play at some point is appropriate.
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markusin

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2017, 07:43:01 pm »
0

As good as Ghost is, trashing a $5 is a big opportunity cost, especially when you would want to keep that $5 around as payload for the Ghost; although an advantage of Exorcist being a night card is that Ghost skips right over it.

Anyway I'll make an early prediction and say the Exorcist will be in the same category as Develop and Counting House; occasionally great but ignorable on most boards.

Trashing a $5 isnít a big opportunity cost when you have a Necromancer and can still play it from the trash.

There are a bunch of Nocturne cards that give out Gold. Use one of those Golds to get Ghost from Exorcist.

Exorcist is non-terminal trashing that cannot be drawn dead (yay), but it costs $4 (boo). The $4 cost makes me hesistant to open with it, but it sounds reasonable to get on the second shuffle after getting some economy or draw cards.
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