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Author Topic: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire  (Read 4651 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2017, 05:25:32 am »
0

So, the previous Night cards all seemed to have a mechanical reason for being Night cards rather than, say non-terminal Action cards.
Exorcist for a long time could trash cards from play. When it stopped doing that, it was clear that it no longer had to be a Night card. And the feeling was that Night cards should have a reason for being Night cards, shouldn't just randomly be Night cards. It felt better leaving Exorcist as a Night card though, I don't know what to tell you.

Vampire and Bat had to be Night cards because Vampires only go out at Night. My hands were tied there. Yes it's also nice to prevent too quickly switching forms.

Was the version that could trash from play also a $4? Exorcist seems to compare unfavourably to Raze
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2017, 05:43:28 am »
+1

So, the previous Night cards all seemed to have a mechanical reason for being Night cards rather than, say non-terminal Action cards.
Exorcist for a long time could trash cards from play. When it stopped doing that, it was clear that it no longer had to be a Night card. And the feeling was that Night cards should have a reason for being Night cards, shouldn't just randomly be Night cards. It felt better leaving Exorcist as a Night card though, I don't know what to tell you.

Vampire and Bat had to be Night cards because Vampires only go out at Night. My hands were tied there. Yes it's also nice to prevent too quickly switching forms.

Was the version that could trash from play also a $4? Exorcist seems to compare unfavourably to Raze
It does at trashing, but maybe you explicitly want those Spirits. They are arguably all better than their price points.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2017, 05:45:40 am »
+3

Thank you, Donald, for previewing these cards! It's been a great week getting to read these all in the middle of the night.

NoMoreFun

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2017, 06:11:02 am »
0

So, the previous Night cards all seemed to have a mechanical reason for being Night cards rather than, say non-terminal Action cards.
Exorcist for a long time could trash cards from play. When it stopped doing that, it was clear that it no longer had to be a Night card. And the feeling was that Night cards should have a reason for being Night cards, shouldn't just randomly be Night cards. It felt better leaving Exorcist as a Night card though, I don't know what to tell you.

Vampire and Bat had to be Night cards because Vampires only go out at Night. My hands were tied there. Yes it's also nice to prevent too quickly switching forms.

Was the version that could trash from play also a $4? Exorcist seems to compare unfavourably to Raze
It does at trashing, but maybe you explicitly want those Spirits. They are arguably all better than their price points.

All the Spirits seem to make sense at their cost + $2, which is appropriate as they need to compare favourably to the card you're trashing to get them. I guess the issue is that Will-o-wisp doesn't seem much more useful than Pearl Diver or Vagrant, especially in a game with trashing. I like playing with Imps in Devil's Workshop games, where you end up with lots of $4 cantrips and non terminals to Imp with, but so far in Exorcist games it's never seemed like a good idea to get one. As good as Ghost is, trashing a $5 is a big opportunity cost, especially when you would want to keep that $5 around as payload for the Ghost; although an advantage of Exorcist being a night card is that Ghost skips right over it.


Anyway I'll make an early prediction and say the Exorcist will be in the same category as Develop and Counting House; occasionally great but ignorable on most boards.
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blaisepascal

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2017, 06:23:32 am »
0

"Each other player receives the next Hex"

Does that mean that in a 4-player game, my 3 opponents all get hit by the same Hex, or do they each receive different hexes in turn?
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2017, 06:31:34 am »
+7

"Each other player receives the next Hex"

Does that mean that in a 4-player game, my 3 opponents all get hit by the same Hex, or do they each receive different hexes in turn?

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2017, 06:33:16 am »
0

"Each other player receives the next Hex"

Does that mean that in a 4-player game, my 3 opponents all get hit by the same Hex, or do they each receive different hexes in turn?
All three receive the same next one.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2017, 07:15:07 am »
+1

Was the version that could trash from play also a $4? Exorcist seems to compare unfavourably to Raze
I'm not here to debate your statement. I can answer your question; when it could trash from play it cost $4. That doesn't tell you anything except how poorly I guessed as to what it should cost though. It was stronger than Upgrade (one of the easier cards to try to compare it to).
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2017, 07:15:21 am »
+7

Thank you, Donald, for previewing these cards! It's been a great week getting to read these all in the middle of the night.
You're welcome!
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markusin

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2017, 08:12:55 am »
0

Was the version that could trash from play also a $4? Exorcist seems to compare unfavourably to Raze
I'm not here to debate your statement. I can answer your question; when it could trash from play it cost $4. That doesn't tell you anything except how poorly I guessed as to what it should cost though. It was stronger than Upgrade (one of the easier cards to try to compare it to).

Exorcist is a Night card at least. It seems comparable to Salvager in the early game, but doesn't compare so favourably late game when you just want Provinces. Estates for Wisps are nice since Wisp will draw any starting cards and Imps as well as themselves. Ghost seems like a lot of work to get.

Pixie seems cool enough, but Goat is crazy to have at the start of the game! It can trash anything, including those stupid curses from Cursed Gold, and the Cursed Gold itself. Even cooler, it can trash Haunted Mirror.

Vampire, I dunno. It competes with power 5-cost cards, but wants to be gained early. I guess you want it if you are going to gain a bunch of Bazaars and Werewolves or something. And the non-terminal Hex attack is not  nothing.Bat as a trasher works well enough to support what Vampire is trying to do.

And yay, Bats are a thing after all!

Edit: oh, some Heirlooms will give you Imps when trashed by Exorcist. "Why are the things passed down to me possessed"?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 08:20:21 am by markusin »
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Chris is me

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2017, 08:19:53 am »
+3

Quick hot take: Vampire / Bats is gonna be like 80% as good as Mercenary, maybe better in some situations because both halves are nonterminal. Donít think of them as one shots, think more like Journey token every-other-play cards. Hexes are powerful attacks, and gaining $5s and trashing 2 are also powerful. Itís almost everything you need.

D'oh..I missed Exorcist's "Gain a cheaper" when I first read it.

So in reality it's super slow, the only redeeming factor is that it comes out at night so you don't need an action to play it, and can open it alongside a terminal, like say Swindler or Gladiator. But basically any other $3/$4 trasher (or Miser) is much better as an opener.

Later on a few Imps and a Ghost or two are nice to get, however they come late and the opportunity cost of needing to trash an unplayed silver or $5 is steep.

I don't like the card as it turns out. It's one of the weakest $4 in Dominion, though at least it's a trasher so one can't complain too much. But it's outclassed by every other $3/$4 trasher, including Develop and Loan

Late edit: Okay I'm going to disagree with myself a bit. Turning estates into Wisps is reasonably helpful, and it can be drawn "dead" along with a $5 and still come out at night to net you a Ghost upgrade without so much opportunity cost. Not amazing, but there's potential.

Youíre really understating how good it is to trash a Silver into Imp in the mid game. Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game. I would happily trash early Silvers I got for starting economy to get my hands on more Imps.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 08:22:56 am by Chris is me »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2017, 08:22:12 am »
+1

Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.

Um, it's strictly worse than lab.
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markusin

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2017, 08:24:14 am »
0

D'oh..I missed Exorcist's "Gain a cheaper" when I first read it.

So in reality it's super slow, the only redeeming factor is that it comes out at night so you don't need an action to play it, and can open it alongside a terminal, like say Swindler or Gladiator. But basically any other $3/$4 trasher (or Miser) is much better as an opener.

Later on a few Imps and a Ghost or two are nice to get, however they come late and the opportunity cost of needing to trash an unplayed silver or $5 is steep.

I don't like the card as it turns out. It's one of the weakest $4 in Dominion, though at least it's a trasher so one can't complain too much. But it's outclassed by every other $3/$4 trasher, including Develop and Loan

Late edit: Okay I'm going to disagree with myself a bit. Turning estates into Wisps is reasonably helpful, and it can be drawn "dead" along with a $5 and still come out at night to net you a Ghost upgrade without so much opportunity cost. Not amazing, but there's potential.

Youíre really understating how good it is to trash a Silver into Imp in the mid game. Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game. I would happily trash early Silvers I got for starting economy to get my hands on more Imps.

Nocturne has a bunch of Silver and Gold gainers. I will happily trash Silver for Imps and Golds into Ghosts or Imps. There is always Will-o-Wisp around if you don't want to gain more Imps for whatever reason, or if the Imps run out (think 3+ players).
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Chris is me

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2017, 08:24:43 am »
+1

Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.

Um, it's strictly worse than lab.

The opportunity cost is generally a lot lower than getting a Lab. Granted, thatís mostly with Devilís Workshop out, but even with Exorcist there are tons of boards where youíre happy to get semi nonterminal draw. Drawing cards is so good, especially usually non terminally.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2017, 08:29:26 am »
0

I just realized that Exorcist isn't a terminal Action.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2017, 08:30:55 am »
+1

Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.
Um, it's strictly worse than lab.
The opportunity cost is generally a lot lower than getting a Lab. Granted, thatís mostly with Devilís Workshop out, but even with Exorcist there are tons of boards where youíre happy to get semi nonterminal draw. Drawing cards is so good, especially usually non terminally.

I agree I'm just saying that calling it "(EDIT) one of the most versatile card drawers in the game" is very misleading if not downright inaccurate. Imp's greatest strength is that it's so easy to get, not that its ability is a god-like card drawer, like City Quarter or something.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 09:17:54 am by ThetaSigma12 »
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2017, 08:32:36 am »
0

Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.

Um, it's strictly worse than lab.

The opportunity cost is generally a lot lower than getting a Lab. Granted, thatís mostly with Devilís Workshop out, but even with Exorcist there are tons of boards where youíre happy to get semi nonterminal draw. Drawing cards is so good, especially usually non terminally.

How many Imps you can support depends on what other non-terminals are on the board. Generally, turning Estates into Imps will be a very good deal. If you board sucks for Imps, there are at least Will-o-Wisps to gain. Trashing with Exorcist for Wisps honestly doesn't sound like enough on its own, but it helps get around the problem of not wanting more Imps.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2017, 08:45:06 am »
+7

Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.

Um, it's strictly worse than lab.

The opportunity cost is generally a lot lower than getting a Lab. Granted, thatís mostly with Devilís Workshop out, but even with Exorcist there are tons of boards where youíre happy to get semi nonterminal draw. Drawing cards is so good, especially usually non terminally.

How many Imps you can support depends on what other non-terminals are on the board. Generally, turning Estates into Imps will be a very good deal. If you board sucks for Imps, there are at least Will-o-Wisps to gain. Trashing with Exorcist for Wisps honestly doesn't sound like enough on its own, but it helps get around the problem of not wanting more Imps.

Unfortunately, you can't turn estates into Imps.

But seriously, why isn't everyone freaking out about Goat?

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2017, 08:55:53 am »
+2

Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.

Um, it's strictly worse than lab.

The opportunity cost is generally a lot lower than getting a Lab. Granted, thatís mostly with Devilís Workshop out, but even with Exorcist there are tons of boards where youíre happy to get semi nonterminal draw. Drawing cards is so good, especially usually non terminally.

How many Imps you can support depends on what other non-terminals are on the board. Generally, turning Estates into Imps will be a very good deal. If you board sucks for Imps, there are at least Will-o-Wisps to gain. Trashing with Exorcist for Wisps honestly doesn't sound like enough on its own, but it helps get around the problem of not wanting more Imps.

You can't turn Estates into Imps unless you have a Quarry in play because they both cost $2.

I do think Exorcist is being underrated a bit though, it's a nonterminal trasher so it trashes about as fast as Forager (apart from being unable to open 2 Exorcist) and being a Night is better than a nonterminal action a lot of the time because it can't be drawn dead the main problem is the lack of economy. The Wisps tend to suck up coppers which also somewhat mitigates the single card trashing.

Vampire seems quite strong- gaining, trashing and an attack in one! Not the most efficient at any one job but it gives you access to 3 somewhat uncommon abilities so I see it getting bought quite a lot, nonterminal too!

Pixie seems like one of the better $2 cantrips, getting the +1 card boon is crazy! Double lab! Goat is crazy too, is that the fool in the art too? Is Pixie from the lucky coin?
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JThorne

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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2017, 08:57:14 am »
+8

I, for one, am freaking out about Goat. The gift of a non-terminal trash-one before your first shuffle is enormous. It's practically like starting with a Forager in your deck; slightly better if you use it to trash Estates to start, since it always gives you a coin. For the first two shuffles, it outclasses the legendary Steward because it trashes two cards by your second shuffle AND gives you $2; (most early Steward plays are trash-2, clean up; early Goat plays are much more likely to buy a $3 or $4.)

I predict some ragequits if anyone ever manages to pull off lucky Bandit.

That would really get my Goat.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2017, 09:00:07 am »
+1

Asking the important question: are you going to use one tab or three when you put Spirits in your storage case?
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2017, 09:06:55 am »
+2

I'm very misleading if not downright inaccurate.

You see what happens if you quote what people say selectively?

What you actually said was:
I'm just saying that calling it "the most versatile card draw in the game" is very misleading if not downright inaccurate.

However, what Chris is me actually said was:
Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.

Citing a more useful, versatile draw card doesn't negate that point. Imp can be one of the most useful, versatile draw cards without being better than Laboratory.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2017, 09:13:38 am »
0

I assume with Exorcist that you ignore the * in the spirit cost? I know in previous expansions the * in the cost indicated it could not be exchanged through a remodel style upgrade from a non-* card.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2017, 09:16:05 am »
0

However, what Chris is me actually said was:
Imp is probably one of the most useful, versatile draw cards in the game.
Citing a more useful, versatile draw card doesn't negate that point. Imp can be one of the most useful, versatile draw cards without being better than Laboratory.

Hmmm. You make a valid point about "one of the" being important, I apologize for leaving that out. However I still think that Imp as an effect only is not a top-tier drawer, taking into account all the lab variants there are. Imp's power comes from the ability to gain very many quickly, not from a top tier versatile card draw effect.
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Re: Previews #5: Exorcist, Pixie, Vampire
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2017, 09:17:46 am »
+1

OMG VAMPIRE LOOKS SO FUN!
i guarantee you i will overbuy the hell out of vampires and have an army of them flopping back and forth!

---

This is my first preview season since I started playing dominion, when do we get to see the rest of the cards?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 09:18:52 am by weesh »
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