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Author Topic: Five or six players?  (Read 2005 times)

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Oyvind

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Five or six players?
« on: October 25, 2017, 07:12:09 am »
+1

The 2nd edition Big Box says that for a five- or six-player game, you should use 80 Coppers, 70 Silver and 48 Gold. As far as I know, it doesn't say anything about Potion and Platinum. I therefore imagine that the rules for these are unchanged in second edition Dominion:

80 Copper, 70 Silver, 48 Gold, 32 Potion, 24 Platinum, 12 Colony

So my question is, have I understood these setups correctly?
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 07:33:19 am »
+7

Well, I think if you're going to play a 5+ player game of Dominion, you're going to have about as much fun regardless of whether or not your setup is correct.
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 07:47:46 am »
+4

Well, I think if you're going to play a 5+ player game of Dominion, you're going to have about as much fun regardless of whether or not your setup is correct.

Funny reply, but I constantly play five or six player games, because I occasionally play with rather large groups. My favorite player count is three, but four, five or even six players makes for more interesting games than two-player games, IMHO.

Sure, they're longer and there is considerable downtime at really big player counts, but I (and the different groups of players I usually play with) don't mind, as we play mainly as part of socializing. It's more fun to see lots of different takes on how to solve that particular kingdom and how these strategies affect the others.

To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 08:41:32 am by Oyvind »
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 09:02:29 am »
+4

I believe you don't have to change anything except Copper, Silver, Gold, and Province. I've never heard of needing 32 Potions or 24 Platina.

And that wasn't a particularly helpful comment. Awaclus' mockery of multi-player can be annoying at best, but here it's just downright rude. Sorry Awaclus.

Chris is me

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 10:13:20 am »
+1

I donít think thereís a rule saying to double Potions or Platinums, or to extend the Colony pile the way the Province pile is extended. That said, if youíre going to play 5 or 6 player, itís probably best if you do that, so I would proceed as you have been.

I would also strongly consider doing multiple 3 player games vs a 6 player game. If you have a big enough table, you can play near each other and still socialize. I get the appeal of that.
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werothegreat

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 10:13:43 am »
+3

Well, I think if you're going to play a 5+ player game of Dominion, you're going to have about as much fun regardless of whether or not your setup is correct.

Funny reply, but I constantly play five or six player games, because I occasionally play with rather large groups. My favorite player count is three, but four, five or even six players makes for more interesting games than two-player games, IMHO.

Sure, they're longer and there is considerable downtime at really big player counts, but I (and the different groups of players I usually play with) don't mind, as we play mainly as part of socializing. It's more fun to see lots of different takes on how to solve that particular kingdom and how these strategies affect the others.

To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)

Might I suggest trying two 3-player games, instead of one big 6-player game?  You can even swap players around between games!
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 10:16:20 am »
+1

I believe you don't have to change anything except Copper, Silver, Gold, and Province. I've never heard of needing 32 Potions or 24 Platina.

Ah, I may have misunderstood, then. Thanks a lot! I seem to remember that the original Intrigue rulebook stated that you should play with two full sets of basic treasure cards, but I guess it just mentioned those that were specifically included in Intrigue. We may have played this wrong for years, but I don't think it has mattered even once, and we've always had a great time, so no regrets!

Quote
And that wasn't a particularly helpful comment. Awaclus' mockery of multi-player can be annoying at best, but here it's just downright rude. Sorry Awaclus.

I actually found his reply rather amusing, although it failed to provide any New information. I know he hates multi-player, so I was surprised at first that he even bothered to reply to my post, until I read it. :)

I'm a grown man, so it takes some effort to insult me. I think Awaclus is funny, but he's walking on the edge of a knife, so sometimes it can be a bit over the top. I don't think this particular one was, though. :)
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 10:19:05 am »
0

Thank you, Chris is me and werothegreat. The thing is that we sometimes play two parallell 5-/6-player games, and as I said, we don't mind those long games.
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 09:40:30 am »
+1

While it might feel a bit less sociable, two three-player games instead of one six-player really is the way to go.

Maybe some day Donald X will do a promo specifically for groups playing multiple games simultaneously. Perhaps something as simple as an Event: Cost $2. +1 Buy. Once per turn, after your turn, wait for the current player's turn at another table to end. Exchange a non-empty Supply pile at your table with a non-empty Supply pile at theirs.
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 07:15:26 pm »
0

While it might feel a bit less sociable, two three-player games instead of one six-player really is the way to go.

Maybe some day Donald X will do a promo specifically for groups playing multiple games simultaneously. Perhaps something as simple as an Event: Cost $2. +1 Buy. Once per turn, after your turn, wait for the current player's turn at another table to end. Exchange a non-empty Supply pile at your table with a non-empty Supply pile at theirs.

Hahah! Yeah, that would be something! 😀
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 08:53:21 pm »
0

Well, I think if you're going to play a 5+ player game of Dominion, you're going to have about as much fun regardless of whether or not your setup is correct.

I'm also often in a position where several people want to play a game, and it is pretty hard to keep it a 2 player game.  I certainly do prefer 2 player, but sometimes when you have friends over, you just gotta do 3+, and you know what, it is still possible to enjoy it. 
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2017, 02:55:51 pm »
0

I believe you don't have to change anything except Copper, Silver, Gold, and Province. I've never heard of needing 32 Potions or 24 Platina.

Neither have I. But the Curse (and potentially Ruins) pile also changes with more players.

The 2nd edition Big Box says that for a five- or six-player game, you should use 80 Coppers, 70 Silver and 48 Gold.

Has this changed with the 2nd edition? My 1st edition Intrigue rules say that you use all the Treasures from Base+Intrigue, i.e. 120 Coppers (including the starting deck cards), 80 Silvers and 60 Golds.
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2017, 06:07:24 pm »
0

I believe you don't have to change anything except Copper, Silver, Gold, and Province. I've never heard of needing 32 Potions or 24 Platina.

Neither have I. But the Curse (and potentially Ruins) pile also changes with more players.

The 2nd edition Big Box says that for a five- or six-player game, you should use 80 Coppers, 70 Silver and 48 Gold.

Has this changed with the 2nd edition? My 1st edition Intrigue rules say that you use all the Treasures from Base+Intrigue, i.e. 120 Coppers (including the starting deck cards), 80 Silvers and 60 Golds.

Yes, this is new. Only stated in the new Big Box.
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Donald X.

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2017, 06:51:39 pm »
+2

I believe you don't have to change anything except Copper, Silver, Gold, and Province. I've never heard of needing 32 Potions or 24 Platina.

Neither have I. But the Curse (and potentially Ruins) pile also changes with more players.

The 2nd edition Big Box says that for a five- or six-player game, you should use 80 Coppers, 70 Silver and 48 Gold.

Has this changed with the 2nd edition? My 1st edition Intrigue rules say that you use all the Treasures from Base+Intrigue, i.e. 120 Coppers (including the starting deck cards), 80 Silvers and 60 Golds.

Yes, this is new. Only stated in the new Big Box.
I am unfamiliar with this! I imagine it's just because those are the amounts of those cards in the Big Box.
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2017, 03:21:43 am »
+1

I believe you don't have to change anything except Copper, Silver, Gold, and Province. I've never heard of needing 32 Potions or 24 Platina.

Neither have I. But the Curse (and potentially Ruins) pile also changes with more players.

The 2nd edition Big Box says that for a five- or six-player game, you should use 80 Coppers, 70 Silver and 48 Gold.

Has this changed with the 2nd edition? My 1st edition Intrigue rules say that you use all the Treasures from Base+Intrigue, i.e. 120 Coppers (including the starting deck cards), 80 Silvers and 60 Golds.

Yes, this is new. Only stated in the new Big Box.
I am unfamiliar with this! I imagine it's just because those are the amounts of those cards in the Big Box.

Hahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Gotta love when publishers do something without the developer's knowledge. Anyway, those amounts are so arbitrary, too. If you were to scale the cards in two complete sets of base cards to 6 players, it should be 90 Coppers, 60 Silvers, and 45 Golds. The amounts they chose for the Big Box don't make any sense. They printed too many Silvers and not enough Coppers and Golds to match the proper scales.

Regarding Curses and Ruins, the rules are clear that you add 10 cards per player after the first 2 players. So 3 players = 20 cards; 4 players = 30; 5 players = 40; and 6 players = 50. That's why there are 50 Ruins cards and not just 30.

And Oyvind, you keep playing your 5-6 player games! I've played dozens and enjoy them immensely. I've only had a couple that went excessively long, usually because of a new player or an overzealous strategist. We've tried the tandem games before and they are more distracting than anything. You do you. Don't concern yourself with the anti-large-game caucus.
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Donald X.

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2017, 04:05:13 am »
+1

Hahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Gotta love when publishers do something without the developer's knowledge. Anyway, those amounts are so arbitrary, too. If you were to scale the cards in two complete sets of base cards to 6 players, it should be 90 Coppers, 60 Silvers, and 45 Golds. The amounts they chose for the Big Box don't make any sense. They printed too many Silvers and not enough Coppers and Golds to match the proper scales.
I picked those numbers. Just, trying to best use the available space.
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whaleyland

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2017, 04:03:06 pm »
0

Hahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Gotta love when publishers do something without the developer's knowledge. Anyway, those amounts are so arbitrary, too. If you were to scale the cards in two complete sets of base cards to 6 players, it should be 90 Coppers, 60 Silvers, and 45 Golds. The amounts they chose for the Big Box don't make any sense. They printed too many Silvers and not enough Coppers and Golds to match the proper scales.
I picked those numbers. Just, trying to best use the available space.

lol. I guess I misunderstood what you didn't know about. Still, it is rather funny. I suppose I'll update my combined rules do note the change since that is the only "official" 5-6 player variant now that Intrigue has been turned into a formal expansion. Why did you decide to include more Silver and less Copper? Was it just arbitrary or was there a specific reason?
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2017, 04:28:00 pm »
0

Hahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Gotta love when publishers do something without the developer's knowledge. Anyway, those amounts are so arbitrary, too. If you were to scale the cards in two complete sets of base cards to 6 players, it should be 90 Coppers, 60 Silvers, and 45 Golds. The amounts they chose for the Big Box don't make any sense. They printed too many Silvers and not enough Coppers and Golds to match the proper scales.
I picked those numbers. Just, trying to best use the available space.

lol. I guess I misunderstood what you didn't know about. Still, it is rather funny. I suppose I'll update my combined rules do note the change since that is the only "official" 5-6 player variant now that Intrigue has been turned into a formal expansion. Why did you decide to include more Silver and less Copper? Was it just arbitrary or was there a specific reason?

I suggest that upon updating your complete rules, you provide both versions of the 5-6 player rules, and allow the players to decide which they like better, since Donald wasn't aware of the change.
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2017, 04:37:33 pm »
0

Hahahaha! Sorry, couldn't help myself. Gotta love when publishers do something without the developer's knowledge. Anyway, those amounts are so arbitrary, too. If you were to scale the cards in two complete sets of base cards to 6 players, it should be 90 Coppers, 60 Silvers, and 45 Golds. The amounts they chose for the Big Box don't make any sense. They printed too many Silvers and not enough Coppers and Golds to match the proper scales.
I picked those numbers. Just, trying to best use the available space.

lol. I guess I misunderstood what you didn't know about. Still, it is rather funny. I suppose I'll update my combined rules do note the change since that is the only "official" 5-6 player variant now that Intrigue has been turned into a formal expansion. Why did you decide to include more Silver and less Copper? Was it just arbitrary or was there a specific reason?

I suggest that upon updating your complete rules, you provide both versions of the 5-6 player rules, and allow the players to decide which they like better, since Donald wasn't aware of the change.
Yes, that's a good idea. I'll probably put the older rule in a footnote just to reduce clutter.
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whaleyland

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2018, 12:09:26 am »
0

Has anyone actually purchased the Big Box II? How many Curses and Platinums are included? I assume there are 20 extra Curses and 6 extra Provinces, but I haven't read anything about those. Please advise. Thanks!
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 04:28:05 am »
0

Has anyone actually purchased the Big Box II? How many Curses and Platinums are included? I assume there are 20 extra Curses and 6 extra Provinces, but I haven't read anything about those. Please advise. Thanks!

I own it. Including the 52 kingdom cards, the set includes the following:

80 Copper
70 Silver
48 Gold
50 Curse
30 Estate
12 Duchy
18 Province

So, no Platinum/Colony, as these are included in the revised Prosperity. I wonder what's included in the coming revised Base Cards set. Will Ruins be included? And what about Heirlooms and Shelters? Heirlooms will probably not be included, as they need their respective Kingdom cards to funtion. Will the added number of basic cards in Big Box II be included as well? I'm assuming a new Trash mat will be included, instead of the Trash card of the original set.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2018, 04:32:11 am by Oyvind »
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2018, 08:02:35 pm »
+1

Thank you! That was very helpful and confirmed everything for me.

I suspect the new Base Cards will be almost identical to the old one. All the cards have undergone new artwork tweaks, which older players of the game may want, and they'll probably throw in the new Trash mat just to appease the public. It would be nice if they threw in the new Bane marker card, too.

There is no reason to include new Ruins, Shelters, or Heirlooms in the box because those are all expansion-specific. That being said, the selection criteria for Platinum/Colony is the same as Shelters, so if the former are included, the latter should be too, although I feel none of these actually need to be included. Similarly, Potions are extremely expansion-specific, so I see no reason why they should be included in the Base Cards set. I know why they were included originally Ė the entire set was envisioned as an alt-artwork set Ė but now that the Base Cards are is in all the Second / Revised Edition printings, that aspect is no longer needed.

I think the Base Cards should be released as a much smaller expansion and rebranded as the 5-6 player expansion. It should just include 20 Coppers, 30 Silver, 18 Gold, 20 Curses, 6 Estates, and 6 Provinces. That's exactly 100 cards. The Update Packs each contained 80 cards, so the boxes would be just about the same size. Just an idea.
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2018, 04:32:34 am »
0

To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)
Most attacks are about the same strength level at any player count. The exceptions tend to be cards like Jester and Pirate Ship where you can gain something from the attack.
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Oyvind

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2018, 04:02:58 pm »
+1

To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)
Most attacks are about the same strength level at any player count. The exceptions tend to be cards like Jester and Pirate Ship where you can gain something from the attack.

I respectfully disagree. In games were your opponents have one attack card each, facing one of those every round is generally much better than facing five of them, which Iíve seen plenty of times with Torturer, Witch, and the like. Some attacks donít hurt when youíre attacked several times (e.a. Militia), and some actually help you (e.a. Margrave), but most are bad when youíre attacked several times a turn, and I think thatís how it should be. Of course, this is just my humble opinion, and you may disagree with me. :-)
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2018, 03:49:35 am »
+1

If you usually only play one torturer per turn, you're doing it wrong.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2018, 01:31:31 pm »
0

To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)
Most attacks are about the same strength level at any player count. The exceptions tend to be cards like Jester and Pirate Ship where you can gain something from the attack.

I respectfully disagree. In games were your opponents have one attack card each, facing one of those every round is generally much better than facing five of them, which Iíve seen plenty of times with Torturer, Witch, and the like. Some attacks donít hurt when youíre attacked several times (e.a. Militia), and some actually help you (e.a. Margrave), but most are bad when youíre attacked several times a turn, and I think thatís how it should be. Of course, this is just my humble opinion, and you may disagree with me. :-)

Agreed. Even with something like Militia, a 4 player games greatly increases the chances that you will have a 3 card hand every turn compared to a 2 player game. At least near the beginning of the game, before your opponent has built up an engine that can play Militia every turn. And other than discard attacks, pretty much all the other attacks are worse when you have multiple per turn compared to 1 per turn.
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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2018, 01:34:37 pm »
0

To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)
Most attacks are about the same strength level at any player count. The exceptions tend to be cards like Jester and Pirate Ship where you can gain something from the attack.

I respectfully disagree. In games were your opponents have one attack card each, facing one of those every round is generally much better than facing five of them, which Iíve seen plenty of times with Torturer, Witch, and the like. Some attacks donít hurt when youíre attacked several times (e.a. Militia), and some actually help you (e.a. Margrave), but most are bad when youíre attacked several times a turn, and I think thatís how it should be. Of course, this is just my humble opinion, and you may disagree with me. :-)

Agreed. Even with something like Militia, a 4 player games greatly increases the chances that you will have a 3 card hand every turn compared to a 2 player game. At least near the beginning of the game, before your opponent has built up an engine that can play Militia every turn. And other than discard attacks, pretty much all the other attacks are worse when you have multiple per turn compared to 1 per turn.

I think attacks are weaker in multiplayer. In a 3 player game where the other two players are going to play a militia every turn, your own militia is useless. Similarly with junkers, if the other two players play witch more often than you, it's not as devastating as it is in a two player game since they also junk each other.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Five or six players?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2018, 01:39:48 pm »
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To me, and I know I'm not alone, two-player games can be kind of bland, too short and mostly uninteresting. Besides, attacks (which I really love) become too weak in most cases. Multi-player games fix these problems for me and my usual opponents. I know this is subjective, but even though I liked it and you made me smile, your reply wasn't particularly helpful. :)
Most attacks are about the same strength level at any player count. The exceptions tend to be cards like Jester and Pirate Ship where you can gain something from the attack.

I respectfully disagree. In games were your opponents have one attack card each, facing one of those every round is generally much better than facing five of them, which Iíve seen plenty of times with Torturer, Witch, and the like. Some attacks donít hurt when youíre attacked several times (e.a. Militia), and some actually help you (e.a. Margrave), but most are bad when youíre attacked several times a turn, and I think thatís how it should be. Of course, this is just my humble opinion, and you may disagree with me. :-)

Agreed. Even with something like Militia, a 4 player games greatly increases the chances that you will have a 3 card hand every turn compared to a 2 player game. At least near the beginning of the game, before your opponent has built up an engine that can play Militia every turn. And other than discard attacks, pretty much all the other attacks are worse when you have multiple per turn compared to 1 per turn.

I think attacks are weaker in multiplayer. In a 3 player game where the other two players are going to play a militia every turn, your own militia is useless. Similarly with junkers, if the other two players play witch more often than you, it's not as devastating as it is in a two player game since they also junk each other.

But you're talking about how good it is to get an attack of your own, whereas I and the previous posts were talking about how much they hurt you when others are playing them. Yes, with Militia if each opponent is playing a Militia every turn, then no reason to get one of your own. But it still hurts you more than you have 2 opponents playing a Militia than if only one was (until the point where that one opponent can consistently play one every turn).

So you end up with something of a paradox... the attack hurts more with more players, yet it's a weaker option to get one yourself with more players.
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