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Author Topic: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery  (Read 9639 times)

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LaLight

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2017, 10:46:04 am »
+3

Fun fact: With Cursed Gold you can now open Province Turn 1 with Baker or Borrow on the board.

If you have Baker and Borrow on the board, and two players buy Lost City before your turn, you could end up with 6 copper and a Cursed Gold allowing you to buy a Colony.

Only one can, you can have Alms + villa for +1
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fiercelord

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2017, 10:56:08 am »
0

Thanks to Donald for the continued growth of this terrific game, I'm very excited for the challenge Nocturne presents!

Looking at Ghost I'm wondering when Night cards get discarded, if at all. Do they act like action or treasures where they are discarded after their use or are they one-shots where they stay out once used? Will there be a separate mate for night cards, like there was for reserve cards?
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Squidd

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2017, 11:00:10 am »
+2

The Night phase is still before Cleanup, so Night cards will be discarded like anything else unless they're also Durations. Those will be discarded at the end of the last turn when they do anything, like any other Durations.
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trivialknot

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2017, 11:04:38 am »
0

Shepherd: To draw through your deck with Shepherd, you need 50% of your deck to be green--at least until you reach the end of your shuffle.  So I guess deck-drawing engines with just Shepherd usually aren't happening.

Pooka: In many games you want to get a silver (curse) in the first shuffle so you can buy a $5-cost in the second shuffle.  With Pooka in play, you can buy the $5-cost in your first shuffle and get the curse for free.

Cemetery: How many cards would you need to trash before it's worth buying this?  Even if you trash just 2 estates, it could be good, right?  Or maybe you prefer to wait for a bigger opportunity.
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dmet

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2017, 11:39:56 am »
+1

Alms makes Cemetery almost Chapel-level trashing. Without a cheap gainer, you're probably waiting a bit to use it, a bit like a big doctor overpay in the midgame.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 11:41:55 am by dmet »
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tripwire

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2017, 11:59:02 am »
0

Ghost sounds really interesting to me. It looks like it'd create a lot of tension when it's a part of a traditional deck type. The fact that it's a throne makes me think it's an engine card, but it won't do anything if you draw your whole deck (unless you have some way to discard an action for it to find). The fact that it digs for an action to play makes me think it's a sloggy card, but any game it's in will always also include a trasher (Cemetery). As a result it might actually work best in those mythical "hybrid" decks.
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Squidd

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2017, 12:08:56 pm »
+6

Inherited Faithful Hounds would make good sheepdogs.
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mameluke

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2017, 12:12:07 pm »
+6

Ghost sounds really interesting to me. It looks like it'd create a lot of tension when it's a part of a traditional deck type. The fact that it's a throne makes me think it's an engine card, but it won't do anything if you draw your whole deck (unless you have some way to discard an action for it to find). The fact that it digs for an action to play makes me think it's a sloggy card, but any game it's in will always also include a trasher (Cemetery). As a result it might actually work best in those mythical "hybrid" decks.

Since the Night phase is after the Buy phase, you can still draw your whole deck, but you'll just have to buy another Action card during your Buy phase. This is really only an issue if you don't have multiple buys and you're greening, but that's probably not a draw-your-deck type anyhow.
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tripwire

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2017, 12:34:12 pm »
+1

Ghost sounds really interesting to me. It looks like it'd create a lot of tension when it's a part of a traditional deck type. The fact that it's a throne makes me think it's an engine card, but it won't do anything if you draw your whole deck (unless you have some way to discard an action for it to find). The fact that it digs for an action to play makes me think it's a sloggy card, but any game it's in will always also include a trasher (Cemetery). As a result it might actually work best in those mythical "hybrid" decks.

Since the Night phase is after the Buy phase, you can still draw your whole deck, but you'll just have to buy another Action card during your Buy phase. This is really only an issue if you don't have multiple buys and you're greening, but that's probably not a draw-your-deck type anyhow.

Oh, good point. Forgot you'd have any actions you bought that turn. Man, night's weird for me to think about, although a lot of these details will probably clear up pretty quickly once I get a chance to try things out. Maybe I'll get a chance to try things tonight.
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brokoli

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2017, 12:40:31 pm »
0

These heirlooms cards are awesome !
Having played a few games with them, Cursed gold in particular is a real headache when no good trashers are in the game.

Alm/Cemetary is very strong when you can discard a necropolis to get the ghost (which happened in my last game, opponent quickly resigned ;D)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2017, 01:25:09 pm »
+2

Cursed Gold adds more evidence to my theory that every time people here talk about how "you really shouldn't do that, and here's why" in response to fan cards, Donald says "oh yeah?".
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Jacob marley

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2017, 02:02:46 pm »
0

Fun fact: With Cursed Gold you can now open Province Turn 1 with Baker or Borrow on the board.

Throw in Alms to open Provence/Tournament
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Jacob marley

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2017, 02:08:03 pm »
0

Wait....

Did Shepard just make Scout good???   :o
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weesh

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2017, 02:10:04 pm »
0

I don't think i'm a good enough player to be confident using cursed gold.
Seems so risky.  I'd use it to buy a sentry, or an altar, but if trashing isn't stellar, I can see myself screwing up my deck and getting behind.
I like that if you burn through the curses, it becomes a normal gold, and that in a 4 player game, there are fewer curses per person.

---

DX: Tell me there is a recommended game in the manual with all 7 heirlooms.
Remember most recommended sets are 5 cards from the new set, 5 from another set.

who are the recommended sets designed for?
putting all 7 heirloom cards in a single recommended set seems a little like making a recommended set with 7 events. 
could be fun, but also a bit brain melting.

---

Ghost sounds fun (and powerful)! It's a digging Summon-Throne that you can't draw dead.

Fun and powerful in a "I really hope i don't draw a mandatory trasher with a hand full of good stuff" sort of way!
a little danger to keep things interesting?
communicating clearly with ghosts has always been a bit of a challenge.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 02:22:48 pm by weesh »
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2017, 02:19:54 pm »
+5

I know others have said it, but I want to echo their comments. Donald, you really did an impressive job with how elegant this heirloom mechanic is. I'm curious how you developed that idea and/or how that implementation came to you.
As usual there will be a Secret History. The short version is: LF suggested having a card that replaced a starting Copper with something; once multiple cards had the setup I shortened the text for it; and Sir Martin suggested the yellow banner.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2017, 02:21:37 pm »
+6

who are the recommended sets designed for?
My sense of obligation to make a bunch of recommended sets.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2017, 02:25:47 pm »
0

Is Shepherd a must-buy in Rebuild games?
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Gazbag

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2017, 02:36:01 pm »
0

Is Shepherd a must-buy in Rebuild games?
Shepherd seems to make Rebuild even better yeah, discarding Victories to find Rebuilds could be useful and Pasture costs $2 so it goes straight to Duchy which seems like a boost too.
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sorawotobu

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2017, 02:43:50 pm »
0

Everyone's favorite rules question: If these kingdom cards are in the Black Market deck, are the Heirlooms used?
I recommend not putting them in the Black Market deck, but yes, you do all setup for Black Market deck cards.

Do you have a suggestion for how to avoid this if one is using one copy of each (regular back) card as randomizers and then the randomizer deck as the Black Market deck?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2017, 02:46:38 pm »
+1

I know others have said it, but I want to echo their comments. Donald, you really did an impressive job with how elegant this heirloom mechanic is. I'm curious how you developed that idea and/or how that implementation came to you.
As usual there will be a Secret History. The short version is: LF suggested having a card that replaced a starting Copper with something; once multiple cards had the setup I shortened the text for it; and Sir Martin suggested the yellow banner.

I don't think I so much suggested it as, you got the idea from my fan set which had such a card. I mean I'll still take credit, but.
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Willvon

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2017, 03:16:22 pm »
0

Everyone's favorite rules question: If these kingdom cards are in the Black Market deck, are the Heirlooms used?
I recommend not putting them in the Black Market deck, but yes, you do all setup for Black Market deck cards.

Do you have a suggestion for how to avoid this if one is using one copy of each (regular back) card as randomizers and then the randomizer deck as the Black Market deck?

I use the randomizers for my Black Market deck. I just grab a bunch of them mixed together. However, before I set them out for the game, I look through them and pull out cards that are going to need extra tokens or chits that are not already in the game due to the other kingdom cards or Events. Then I just shuffle what's left and we are ready to go.  I will probably do the same with any heirloom cards that I see.
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Awaclus

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2017, 03:27:13 pm »
0

Alms makes Cemetery almost Chapel-level trashing. Without a cheap gainer, you're probably waiting a bit to use it, a bit like a big doctor overpay in the midgame.

More like better than Donate -level trashing. I literally can't think of a single hypothetical kingdom where I wouldn't buy Alms -> Cemetery on at least one of the opening turns.
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2017, 03:55:02 pm »
+4

Everyone's favorite rules question: If these kingdom cards are in the Black Market deck, are the Heirlooms used?
I recommend not putting them in the Black Market deck, but yes, you do all setup for Black Market deck cards.

Do you have a suggestion for how to avoid this if one is using one copy of each (regular back) card as randomizers and then the randomizer deck as the Black Market deck?
Skip them as they come up?
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2017, 03:57:52 pm »
+1

I know others have said it, but I want to echo their comments. Donald, you really did an impressive job with how elegant this heirloom mechanic is. I'm curious how you developed that idea and/or how that implementation came to you.
As usual there will be a Secret History. The short version is: LF suggested having a card that replaced a starting Copper with something; once multiple cards had the setup I shortened the text for it; and Sir Martin suggested the yellow banner.

I don't think I so much suggested it as, you got the idea from my fan set which had such a card. I mean I'll still take credit, but.
Well I don't see it in your thread's OP. Maybe you mentioned it in a chat?
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pacovf

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #74 on: October 24, 2017, 04:01:10 pm »
+4

Losing your Pasture or Haunted mirror (with no action card in hand) to a Bandit etc. sounds painful.

Unrelated, Cursed Gold is a pretty big boost to early Trash-for-Benefit.
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