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Author Topic: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery  (Read 9640 times)

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Chris is me

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2017, 05:55:52 am »
+2

I just get why all these previews keep getting posted at weird times. Its part of the theme, get it? Hes posting the night before instead of the morning of.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2017, 05:57:58 am »
+3

How am I supposed to get back to sleep now? I'm so excited for these cards!
Dominion has given you a whole phase to sleep in, and here you are, complaining?

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2017, 06:17:46 am »
+2

DX: Tell me there is a recommended game in the manual with all 7 heirlooms.
Remember most recommended sets are 5 cards from the new set, 5 from another set.
That's not a "no"!!!!!
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 06:23:07 am »
+2

I feel like someone predicted something very close to some of these in the Heirloom speculation thread, but I don't think anyone called the paired start cards mechanic.

I dunno about the heirloom speculation thread, but I basically called Cursed Gold back in 2013. :)

I really don't want to be mean here, but just like the idea of a card that gives plain +2 Actions, "Cursed Gold" has been thrown around by fans since pretty much the beginning of Dominion. And just like Necropolis, it's still a really bad idea for a kingdom card. The fact that all players equally and choicelessly start with exactly one copy of this instead of another weak card in their deck (again, just like with Necropolis) makes all the difference.

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 06:24:18 am »
+10

I feel like someone predicted something very close to some of these in the Heirloom speculation thread, but I don't think anyone called the paired start cards mechanic.

I dunno about the heirloom speculation thread, but I basically called Cursed Gold back in 2013. :)

I really don't want to be mean here, but just like the idea of a card that gives plain +2 Actions, "Cursed Gold" has been thrown around by fans since pretty much the beginning of Dominion. And just like Necropolis, it's still a really bad idea for a kingdom card. The fact that all players equally and choicelessly start with exactly one copy of this instead of another weak card in their deck (again, just like with Necropolis) makes all the difference.

Yes, and if you indeed click his link, this is the guy's idea as well.
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Asper

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2017, 06:36:58 am »
+1

I feel like someone predicted something very close to some of these in the Heirloom speculation thread, but I don't think anyone called the paired start cards mechanic.

I dunno about the heirloom speculation thread, but I basically called Cursed Gold back in 2013. :)

I really don't want to be mean here, but just like the idea of a card that gives plain +2 Actions, "Cursed Gold" has been thrown around by fans since pretty much the beginning of Dominion. And just like Necropolis, it's still a really bad idea for a kingdom card. The fact that all players equally and choicelessly start with exactly one copy of this instead of another weak card in their deck (again, just like with Necropolis) makes all the difference.

Yes, and if you indeed click his link, this is the guy's idea as well.

Damn, thanks for pointing this out. I was on mobile and thought I knew what was going on, so I didn't bother clicking...  Now that I read it, I even recall reading the original thread. Sorry and impressive job, AJD! :D

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2017, 06:40:14 am »
0

Is it just me, or does Pooka look weak? It can only trash 6 cards, and +4 Cards doesn't seem that much better than Spice Merchant. I think I would almost always buy spice merchant over this unless there's no solid draw.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2017, 06:46:32 am »
0

Is it just me, or does Pooka look weak? It can only trash 6 cards, and +4 Cards doesn't seem that much better than Spice Merchant. I think I would almost always buy spice merchant over this unless there's no solid draw.

It could trash IGGs, or Masterpieces, I guess.  Also silvers?  And any coppers you might buy...

Could Pooka BM be a thing?  Trash coppers/silvers to it for draw, and buy gold/province as appropriate?
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2017, 06:53:14 am »
+1

Is it just me, or does Pooka look weak? It can only trash 6 cards, and +4 Cards doesn't seem that much better than Spice Merchant. I think I would almost always buy spice merchant over this unless there's no solid draw.

It's just you. Pooka is crazy strong it's a trasher and early game engine component in the same card, but if you have extra +buy, it can remain an engine component for the entire game. It also gives you a lot of cycling which makes the trashing faster than you would expect especially if you also have another trasher that can get rid of the Curses.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 06:54:52 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2017, 07:03:33 am »
0

Is it just me, or does Pooka look weak? It can only trash 6 cards, and +4 Cards doesn't seem that much better than Spice Merchant. I think I would almost always buy spice merchant over this unless there's no solid draw.

It's just you. Pooka is crazy strong it's a trasher and early game engine component in the same card, but if you have extra +buy, it can remain an engine component for the entire game. It also gives you a lot of cycling which makes the trashing faster than you would expect especially if you also have another trasher that can get rid of the Curses.
I'm still not seeing it. It costs so it's not going to be picked up super early unless you use Cursed Gold or get 5/2. Once you've used it 6 times it's generally a dud, unless you have extra buys to make it basically a Smithy. The cycling is a good point, but it would also make Pooka miss the shuffle more, right? All in all, it seems like a good early game but obsoleted in most late games and weaker mid games.

EDIT: Comparing it to Stables is interesting. The big question is it worth the trashing to downgrade to a Smithy? I think not, unless it's the only trashing on the board.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 07:05:04 am by ThetaSigma12 »
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2017, 07:48:40 am »
0

There's a whole bunch of cards that gain you some Treasures you don't really want. JoaT, Treasure Trove, opponents' Embassies and Governors, Treasure Hunter etc. Pooka is quite nice with all of them.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 07:50:57 am »
+5

Fun fact: With Cursed Gold you can now open Province Turn 1 with Baker or Borrow on the board.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 07:54:34 am »
0

Is it just me, or does Pooka look weak? It can only trash 6 cards, and +4 Cards doesn't seem that much better than Spice Merchant. I think I would almost always buy spice merchant over this unless there's no solid draw.

It's just you. Pooka is crazy strong it's a trasher and early game engine component in the same card, but if you have extra +buy, it can remain an engine component for the entire game. It also gives you a lot of cycling which makes the trashing faster than you would expect especially if you also have another trasher that can get rid of the Curses.
I'm still not seeing it. It costs so it's not going to be picked up super early unless you use Cursed Gold or get 5/2. Once you've used it 6 times it's generally a dud, unless you have extra buys to make it basically a Smithy. The cycling is a good point, but it would also make Pooka miss the shuffle more, right? All in all, it seems like a good early game but obsoleted in most late games and weaker mid games.

EDIT: Comparing it to Stables is interesting. The big question is it worth the trashing to downgrade to a Smithy? I think not, unless it's the only trashing on the board.

To me, the fact that it both trashes and cycles in the early and midgame game makes it potentially very potent, and the Cursed Gold helps you do stuff with your big draw as well if you really want an expensive card. The main problem with an early game Pooka would be dead draw of your other actions, but this is the expansion with Night cards that are not drawn dead.

It's not quite a Smithy+ though, as they do not stack too well for very long
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 08:06:24 am »
+2

I know others have said it, but I want to echo their comments. Donald, you really did an impressive job with how elegant this heirloom mechanic is. I'm curious how you developed that idea and/or how that implementation came to you.
Really good! I stopped playing Dominion online for a while because my compulsion to play was getting in the way of other things in my life, but this might get me back for another tour. At the very least I am certainly going to get the physical version.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 08:20:27 am »
0

How many Ghosts are in the pile? Seems like it wouldn't be more than 6 (max supported players) since nobody's usually going to trash one of these Haunted Mirrors more than once (although I guess Thief could have done it more times, and maybe there are new things that can).
There are 6 Ghosts (and 6 of each Heirloom of course).

Hmm.  I thought there could be other cards that trigger Ghosts, like there are with Spoils.  I guess that it still possible but less likely with only 6.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 08:33:20 am »
+9

Let's do some Cursed Gold opening math!  Here is the likelihood of a particular hand on turn 1 (and turn 2, if we ignore other shenanigans):

3 Copper + Cursed Gold = 23.81%
3 Copper = 23.81%
2 Copper + Cursed Gold = 17.86%
4 Copper = 17.86%
4 Copper + Cursed Gold = 5.95%
2 Copper = 5.95%
5 Copper = 2.38%
1 Copper + Cursed Gold = 2.38%

If you choose to use the Cursed Gold, your opening possibilities are:
$2 | $7: 5.95%
$3 | $6: 23.81%
$4 | $5: 20.24%
$5 | $4: 20.24%
$6 | $3: 23.81%
$7 | $2: 5.95%

If you choose not to use the Cursed Gold in the opening, your possibilities are:
$1 | $5: 2.38%
$2 | $4: 23.81%
$3 | $3: 47.62%
$4 | $2: 23.81%
$5 | $1: 2.38%
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2017, 08:47:45 am »
+1

Forager openings make for interesting Cursed Gold interactions as who is going to trash it first.
Also Counterfeit/Cursed Gold is an interesting interaction as you have to think about getting lets of money this turn and also can get rid of the card worth it gaining 2 Curses.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 08:53:54 am »
+13

Cursed Gold makes me feel like a college kid who got a credit card before he was ready for it...

"Turn 2 Pooka?"

"Yes, please."

"Turn 3 Raider?"

"Don't mind if I do.  I will deal with these Curses later...."   :-[
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 08:58:56 am »
+1

I'm also really glad about the art improvement compared to e.g. Devil's Workshop. Cemetary is especially nice. I like how Heirlooms create lots of decisions while each individual card is really simple.

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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2017, 09:25:06 am »
+1

7 cards in one preview? Plus a bonus preview? Were getting spoiled!
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2017, 09:29:54 am »
+38

Shepherd would combo really well with some way to get Victory cards into your hand.  Like imagine if there was some kind of non-terminal Action that would sift through the top of your deck and draw all the Victory cards into your hand - a sort of reconnoiterer, if you will.  Shepherd would definitely combo with that.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2017, 09:49:25 am »
+1

Any chance there are 13 (or more) spirits, each with a different number of cards in their pile? I'm not sure what that would accomplish, but then again, we're still not sure what the spirits do.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2017, 09:53:19 am »
+2

Like imagine if there was some kind of non-terminal Action that would sift through the top of your deck and draw all the Victory cards into your hand

Would have to cost $8 at least and then it competes with Province. Should probably check this thread before you post these things: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=699.0
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2017, 10:08:24 am »
0

Ghost sounds fun (and powerful)! It's a digging Summon-Throne that you can't draw dead.
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Re: Previews #2: Shepherd, Pooka, Cemetery
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2017, 10:43:30 am »
+3

Fun fact: With Cursed Gold you can now open Province Turn 1 with Baker or Borrow on the board.

If you have Baker and Borrow on the board, and two players buy Lost City before your turn, you could end up with 6 copper and a Cursed Gold allowing you to buy a Colony.
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