Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]  All

Author Topic: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town  (Read 103589 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 887
  • Respect: +1675
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #200 on: December 14, 2017, 03:28:45 pm »
0

That's how Donald originally had it, for like one game. It just destroyed turns, I believe.

I suspected that might have been the case. I'm probably underestimating how strong its "targeted" attack is if used carefully.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 06:44:38 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #201 on: December 14, 2017, 06:26:33 pm »
0

I find Raider strange, if you can't trash Copper then it's just a big Cutpurse thing, but if you have trashed your Coppers then your deck is often in a state where discarding 1 card doesn't do much either and it hurts about as much as Urchin. I can see a small window where your deck is starting to kick off but you still have a few Coppers/Estates left where the attack could be devastating, but things would have to line up right and I'm not sure how often I'd want to spend a $6 buy on a stop card at that stage. I guess it can punish early greening maybe?

It seems better than the first 1 or 2 Golds in Big Money, but that's only come up for me once so far and my Raiders missed the shuffle a few times so it didn't work out well on that occasion. But if they don't miss it's clearly better than Gold so I assume that was just a bad game, small sample and all that.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #202 on: December 14, 2017, 07:56:04 pm »
0

Sometimes Urchin is a good card. Raider is that with a delayed Gold effect (but maybe you need 2).
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #203 on: December 15, 2017, 01:17:26 am »
0

Sometimes Urchin is a good card. Raider is that with a delayed Gold effect (but maybe you need 2).
Not really; the times when Urchin shines is mostly when you make your opponent draw big hands with Governor/Council Room, and then have them discard down to 4. Raider can't do that.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3457
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #204 on: December 15, 2017, 09:24:05 am »
0

Raider sucks lol

Like, “sucks” in dominion is relative, there’s still times you’ll buy it, there’s still boards for it, and if it kills a turn once it was probably worth it. But damn it’s expensive and hard to make work for a payoff greater than forcing a Copper discard. Buying two cards to force a discard attack every turn that seems to miss more easily than Militia, a card you only need one of... and having those cards cost $6... Ugh.

At least it’s competitive with Gold once an engine is consistently set up. And if you are lucky and careful enough to force a Village discard its awesome.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:25:41 am by Chris is me »
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

weesh

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 247
  • MOAR MAGPIES
  • Respect: +351
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #205 on: December 15, 2017, 10:35:22 am »
+1

out of the 8 or so times I've seen it played, it completely wrecked someone's turn twice.
i'm so glad it's a duration, and I don't have to face the same one every turn.

Quote
Never get more than two.

Any particular reason?  It seems like a card that stacks decently well, since you could get a weak card on the first discard, and then force a strong discard.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +660
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #206 on: December 15, 2017, 10:56:13 am »
+2

out of the 8 or so times I've seen it played, it completely wrecked someone's turn twice.
i'm so glad it's a duration, and I don't have to face the same one every turn.

Quote
Never get more than two.

Any particular reason?  It seems like a card that stacks decently well, since you could get a weak card on the first discard, and then force a strong discard.

Only if they had more than 5 cards in their hand in the first place. 
Logged

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1477
  • Respect: +1644
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #207 on: December 15, 2017, 07:28:15 pm »
+1

Raider sucks lol
[...]
At least it’s competitive with Gold once an engine is consistently set up.
So what would a fair price be for a Night-Duration card that was just "At the start of your next turn, +$3"?
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #208 on: December 15, 2017, 09:58:25 pm »
+1

Raider sucks lol
[...]
At least it’s competitive with Gold once an engine is consistently set up.
So what would a fair price be for a Night-Duration card that was just "At the start of your next turn, +$3"?

5$, I'd say. It wouldn't be great compared to other 5$ s that give +3$, simply because in the very early game it's worse than those and in the midgame you could have Gold instead, but I don't see it at 4$, honestly. Some people will say 4$ is enough, but I'd rather give such a card a little extra boost, or some slight additional downside to make it work for 4$.
Logged

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1477
  • Respect: +1644
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #209 on: December 15, 2017, 11:13:23 pm »
+1

$4 or $5 is my instinct, too.

Costing an extra $1 or $2 and incorporating an attack that will usually be vexatious and situationally pretty nasty seems fair enough to me.
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1439
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #210 on: January 08, 2018, 03:57:10 am »
+3

There is a benefit of damaging the current turn while boosting the next one, and of not taking an Action slot. Otherwise, you could wonder how Den of Sin is $5 while Moat is $2, or while Enchantress is $3.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #211 on: January 09, 2018, 02:00:15 am »
0

It varies, right?  When the turn you damage buys a 2$ card that'd you'd happily spend 4 on, then shoots your next turn that would have been a 3$ turn to a 5 or six, that's sweet.  But if it sends you from 5$ to 8$, and you don't have a +buy and it's early, you probably don't gain that much (probably you buy the Province anyway, but it's not really a powerful pickup too early).
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1439
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #212 on: January 09, 2018, 07:52:43 am »
0

Your first example hints at an early Encampment/Gold gambit.

You cannot foresee the next hand exactly, but a conclusion would be that you can make a mediocre turn a bad turn but not a bad turn a visit to Baths, as your next tern will already be good enough.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #213 on: January 09, 2018, 08:27:26 am »
+1

There is a benefit of damaging the current turn while boosting the next one, and of not taking an Action slot. Otherwise, you could wonder how Den of Sin is $5 while Moat is $2, or while Enchantress is $3.
Den of Sin is $5 because it's an Expedition the turn you buy it.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #214 on: April 23, 2018, 03:28:11 am »
0

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1439
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #215 on: April 23, 2018, 03:52:06 am »
+1

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.

The delayed effect is a Lost City, but the delay comes with a price (mostly by missing reshuffles/being effective only every 2nd engine turns). Lighthouse is not a Peddler, Caravan is not a Laboratory.

The question is if there should be a penalty to being a Night card as opposed to a cantrip +action duration action card. Action card can be trashed for benefit by Sacrifice and Zombie Apprentice, they are not skipped by Wandering Minstrel, they don't interrupt a series of cards drawn by Scrying Pool, can be Advanced, can be played before Tactician and before Haunted Forest takes effect, deliver a +Action to Ironmonger and so on. The on-buy effect of some of these Night cards should balance this out, so I would agree that Ghost Town would be bought at $4 too.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 08:54:19 am by ipofanes »
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #216 on: April 23, 2018, 03:55:26 am »
0

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.

The delayed effect is a Lost City, but the delay comes with a price (mostly by missing reshuffles/being effective only every 2nd engine turns). Lighthouse is not a Peddler, Caravan is not a Laboratory.

The question is if there should be a penalty to being a Night card as opposed to a cantrip duration action card. Action card can be trashed for benefit by Sacrifice and Zombie Apprentice, they are not skipped by Wandering Minstrel, they don't interrupt a series of cards drawn by Scrying Pool, can be Advanced, can be played before Tactician and before Haunted Forest takes effect, deliver a +Action to Ironmonger and so on. The on-buy effect of some of these Night cards should balance this out, so I would agree that Ghost Town would be bought at $4 too.


In most games I would buy it at five
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3457
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #217 on: April 23, 2018, 07:32:17 am »
+8

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.

The delayed effect is a Lost City, but the delay comes with a price (mostly by missing reshuffles/being effective only every 2nd engine turns). Lighthouse is not a Peddler, Caravan is not a Laboratory.

The question is if there should be a penalty to being a Night card as opposed to a cantrip duration action card. Action card can be trashed for benefit by Sacrifice and Zombie Apprentice, they are not skipped by Wandering Minstrel, they don't interrupt a series of cards drawn by Scrying Pool, can be Advanced, can be played before Tactician and before Haunted Forest takes effect, deliver a +Action to Ironmonger and so on. The on-buy effect of some of these Night cards should balance this out, so I would agree that Ghost Town would be bought at $4 too.


In most games I would buy it at five

You'd also buy Tunnel at five tho
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1477
  • Respect: +1644
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #218 on: April 23, 2018, 10:09:20 am »
+3

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.
Ignoring the more detailed discussion, it's not basically a Lost City, even in the simplest terms.

When you play a Village, you end up with 1 more action than you started with (playing Village costs an action and removes a card from your hand, then you draw another card and get 2 actions).

When you play a Lost City, you end up with 1 more action and 1 more card than you started with.

When you play a Ghost Town, you end up with 1 more action than you started with (playing it removes a card from your hand but doesn't cost an action, then you draw another card and get an action). That makes it very firmly a kind of "village". not a kind of "laboratory".

I think Ghost Town is a good card, in the sense that it adds interest to the game rather than that it's mega strong. Compared with vanilla Village, it has a series of upsides and downsides which make it play very differently in practice:
  • You can play it the turn after you buy it, without waiting for a reshuffle
  • It can't be drawn dead
  • It gives its benefit at start of turn, when it's most valuable
  • It's in play for two turns, so shuffles through more slowly and can only be played at most once every other turn
  • It's no help to you on your current turn
  • It's not an action, so interactions fail with all sorts of things (throne rooms, Adventures tokens, Vassal/Herald/Golem, Ironworks/Ironmonger, and so on.)
Is it better or worse than a normal Village? That's hard to tell, and very situational. $3 seems a fair price, and in any case how often will you ever have the choice between the two?

(In any case, Ghost Town has lovely art. (-8 )
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 11:18:18 am by crj »
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1439
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #219 on: April 23, 2018, 10:32:48 am »
0

I think Cursed Village is a good card

That irritated me a lot.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1477
  • Respect: +1644
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #220 on: April 23, 2018, 11:19:14 am »
+1

That irritated me a lot.
Sorry - fixed.

Am I the only person who finds it really hard to remember which is which? Two thematically-similar Night villages in the same set.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #221 on: April 23, 2018, 11:36:35 am »
+2

That irritated me a lot.
Sorry - fixed.

Am I the only person who finds it really hard to remember which is which? Two thematically-similar Night villages in the same set.

Cursed Village isn't Night...
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #222 on: April 23, 2018, 06:37:51 pm »
0

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.

The delayed effect is a Lost City, but the delay comes with a price (mostly by missing reshuffles/being effective only every 2nd engine turns). Lighthouse is not a Peddler, Caravan is not a Laboratory.

The question is if there should be a penalty to being a Night card as opposed to a cantrip duration action card. Action card can be trashed for benefit by Sacrifice and Zombie Apprentice, they are not skipped by Wandering Minstrel, they don't interrupt a series of cards drawn by Scrying Pool, can be Advanced, can be played before Tactician and before Haunted Forest takes effect, deliver a +Action to Ironmonger and so on. The on-buy effect of some of these Night cards should balance this out, so I would agree that Ghost Town would be bought at $4 too.


In most games I would buy it at five

You'd also buy Tunnel at five tho


I'm surprised you'd actually remember me saying that but that one I take back. I would buy tunnel at 4. But I would still buy ghost town at five.
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +130
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #223 on: April 23, 2018, 06:44:30 pm »
0

Ghost town should cost more. It's basically a lost city.
Ignoring the more detailed discussion, it's not basically a Lost City, even in the simplest terms.

When you play a Village, you end up with 1 more action than you started with (playing Village costs an action and removes a card from your hand, then you draw another card and get 2 actions).

When you play a Lost City, you end up with 1 more action and 1 more card than you started with.

When you play a Ghost Town, you end up with 1 more action than you started with (playing it removes a card from your hand but doesn't cost an action, then you draw another card and get an action). That makes it very firmly a kind of "village". not a kind of "laboratory".

I think Ghost Town is a good card, in the sense that it adds interest to the game rather than that it's mega strong. Compared with vanilla Village, it has a series of upsides and downsides which make it play very differently in practice:
  • You can play it the turn after you buy it, without waiting for a reshuffle
  • It can't be drawn dead
  • It gives its benefit at start of turn, when it's most valuable
  • It's in play for two turns, so shuffles through more slowly and can only be played at most once every other turn
  • It's no help to you on your current turn
  • It's not an action, so interactions fail with all sorts of things (throne rooms, Adventures tokens, Vassal/Herald/Golem, Ironworks/Ironmonger, and so on.)
Is it better or worse than a normal Village? That's hard to tell, and very situational. $3 seems a fair price, and in any case how often will you ever have the choice between the two?

(In any case, Ghost Town has lovely art. (-8 )


I'm pretty sure we all know that you love the art for ghost town. Personally it's not my favorite art, farmlands the best
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]  All
 

Page created in 0.058 seconds with 21 queries.