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Author Topic: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town  (Read 103622 times)

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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2017, 04:04:10 pm »
+1

Big thanks to Stef for putting these cards up!

Raider is a good counter to mirrors. It's great in Sauna and Avanto, you can trash all your coppers then make your opponent discard a Raider, Sauna, Avanto, Silver, or Gold. Rebuild games also come to mind. Just with the vanilla boni it's already a pretty good card.

Ghost Town doesn't seem as bad in multiples as I thought it would. But the on gain is sweet and it helped me spike early one game. If you have good deck drawing generally it seems to even out, you play about as many as you played the last turn.

Devil's Workshop is just great. Chapel/DW is a killer opening. It's nice it's non-terminal so it reminds me of ironworks, but it's hard to spam. Imps are good card though, but also hard to spam.
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nana-king

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2017, 04:13:00 pm »
0

I just played with Devil's Workshop online, tons of fun!  Though in an attempt to pile out I took the last Imp as my third pile but the game didn't end.  Is that a bug or something different with Spirits?
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kieranmillar

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2017, 04:15:32 pm »
+4

Imps are not in the supply. Only supply piles trigger the end of the game.
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Qvist

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2017, 06:24:00 pm »
+7

After streaming for 4 hours with the 4 new cards, my first impressions:

-Devil's Workhop is pretty solid, not sure how well it compares to Ironworks or Armory, being forced to take the option makes is really tricky
-If Ghost Town is the only village, it is just so important as the +Actions are very limited, if it isn't just just get it for the on gain effect to get reliability similar for when you want to buy Villa
-Raider is just very bad so far, it doesn't do anything great in the early game and is not at all that impressive in the later game, pretty weak card
-Crypt is just bonkers good in every game so far. Being able to get lots of treasures out of the deck is so good in every game. You can get Terminal Draw + Crypt and if they line up you got rid of so many treasures allowing you to build the deck you want. But it is also very good in money strategies, making this a must buy on like most boards. And I indeed did play a Crypt+Capital board and that was the most fun board I have played in a while.

kieranmillar

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2017, 06:40:36 pm »
0

While Ghost Town looks awesome, the fact it is a stop card on the turn you draw it could be a significant downside. I predict it will be a card that's easy to overbuy but will be pretty good if you have a few of them. I wonder if you can fall into a trap where the extra draw helps you draw... more Ghost Towns, so you don't really improve your draw at all (but are getting extra actions so that's good). Honestly all these cards seem hard to guage right now, which is awesome. More to figure out through play!
I was wrong, Ghost Town is great. Getting the extra draw and extra action both at the start of the turn is worth having a stop card in the middle of your turn, it's so much better. Consistency!

But like, it's still first and foremost a $3 village. It was never going to be mind-blowingly spectacular, but villages are awesome anyway. You know, because they're villages.
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gambit05

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2017, 07:11:41 pm »
+1

I wonder whether anyone has noticed so far that Donald X has presented the new cards for the first time at night (US time).
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crlundy

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2017, 07:15:44 pm »
+1

Previews posted before morning (USA time)!? How fitting.
I did!
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Donald X.

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2017, 07:28:08 pm »
0

I wonder whether anyone has noticed so far that Donald X has presented the new cards for the first time at night (US time).
I feel like I've done midnight previews before, though it would be work to find out.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2017, 07:38:38 pm »
0

I wonder whether anyone has noticed so far that Donald X has presented the new cards for the first time at night (US time).
I feel like I've done midnight previews before, though it would be work to find out.

I’m relatively certain you haven’t. At least not for Hinterlands or thereafter.
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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2017, 08:32:49 pm »
+1

Imp is pretty wacky with BoM/Overlord.  You can just always play them, right?

ConMan

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2017, 08:54:51 pm »
0

Imp is pretty wacky with BoM/Overlord.  You can just always play them, right?
Except for those few weird edge cases where they don't wind up copying something - so Enchantress, and when there's no valid target. But otherwise, yes loading up on Imps and Bom/OLs seems pretty sweet.
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Robz888

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2017, 09:00:36 pm »
0

Can we play the preview cards online yet? I don't understand how time zones work.
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Dingan

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2017, 09:02:37 pm »
0

Why do Imps cost $2? Why not $0* like all other non-Supply things, or even $2*?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2017, 09:03:59 pm »
0

Why do Imps cost $2? Why not $0* like all other non-Supply things, or even $2*?

Imp does cost $2*. It's right there in the image.
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Robz888

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2017, 09:04:32 pm »
0

Can we play the preview cards online yet? I don't understand how time zones work.

NVM, figured it out!
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Robz888

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2017, 09:05:56 pm »
+2

Well it's obvious that Night cards would have combo'd with Scout. Scout is also best use during a specialty game phase that never actually existed before.
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weesh

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2017, 09:49:30 pm »
+3

i'm getting really excited about filling my deck with night cards without fear of collisions.

apparently night is a great time to be productive, because your subjects aren't getting on your case with their petty business?
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Robz888

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2017, 09:51:04 pm »
+6

Dominion Nocturne: For people who spend their Nights not getting any action... and couldn't care less.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2017, 09:51:42 pm »
+5

Well it's obvious that Night cards would have combo'd with Scout. Scout is also best use during a specialty game phase that never actually existed before.
Devil's Workshop! Now you can gain 2 scouts per turn!

Imp! If you've played all the actions in your hand but scout, you get a free scout play!

Crypt! Set aside all your treasures and draw all your green!

Raider! You don't need to worry about your opponent discarding scouts because they won't be smart enough to buy any!
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ConMan

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #94 on: October 24, 2017, 01:22:30 am »
+2

I'm noticing a distinct "cards in play" sub-theme in some of these previews - Raider and Imp both look at what you have in play to determine what they do, and Crypt lets you save Treasures that are in play. Ghost Town is a little different, although it can be played the turn it's bought which is almost related.

EDIT:
Also, an interesting strategic thing I'm discovering is that Raider encourages you to play cards you might normally withhold. For example, suppose you draw a King's Court without another Action to play with it. By playing it, you might force your opponent to discard theirs on a turn where they could match it with something good.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 01:33:55 am by ConMan »
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Qvist

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #95 on: October 24, 2017, 07:32:44 am »
+2

Also, an interesting strategic thing I'm discovering is that Raider encourages you to play cards you might normally withhold. For example, suppose you draw a King's Court without another Action to play with it. By playing it, you might force your opponent to discard theirs on a turn where they could match it with something good.

While this certainly might be true, I think the opposite will be way more common, meaning that you don't play cards that you would normally play, like Treasure cards, especially Copper.

Stealth Tomato

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #96 on: October 24, 2017, 09:46:49 am »
+1

It is a bit weaker as it is not a cantrip this turn (i.e. you'd usually rather have +1 Card +1 Action; at the start of your next turn: +1 Action than +1 Action; at the start of your next turn: +1 Card +1 Action ) and a bit stronger as you can play it after having drawn it and being out of Actions.

No! You wouldn't rather have the +1 Card on the current turn. We learned this from Tactician - decreasing your current hand strength to improve your next hand strength is a powerful effect. I would argue that's the defining feature of this card.
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josh56

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2017, 10:11:32 am »
+1

It is a bit weaker as it is not a cantrip this turn (i.e. you'd usually rather have +1 Card +1 Action; at the start of your next turn: +1 Action than +1 Action; at the start of your next turn: +1 Card +1 Action ) and a bit stronger as you can play it after having drawn it and being out of Actions.

No! You wouldn't rather have the +1 Card on the current turn. We learned this from Tactician - decreasing your current hand strength to improve your next hand strength is a powerful effect. I would argue that's the defining feature of this card.
Tactician is terminal and you gotta differentiate between terminals and non-terminals.
Caravan is worse than Lab so +1 Action; at the start of your next turn +1 Card, +1 Action is worse than +1 Card, +1 Action; at the start of your next turn +1 Action which is again worse than Village. Delayed effects are nearly always worse than immediate effects with terminal draw (Tactician, Haunted Woods, Enchantress) being the only potential exception that comes to mind.

Furthermore, if your argument were correct Ghost Village would be better than Village in several ways whereas in fact it is better in some ways (the quasi-Summon effect, the possibility to play this after having played a terminal draw and not having any actions left) and worse in others (worse than a delayed village).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 10:15:06 am by josh56 »
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #98 on: October 24, 2017, 10:28:20 am »
+1

So with Ghost Town, you have to draw an extra dead card at any point during your current turn. Then it (barring edge cases) guarantees a free Lost City play at the start of your next turn.

I'll have to play around with it some more, but I'm thinking this is way better than a vanilla Village on average. In general with Dominion, you want cards that don't care when in your turn you draw them, and you want things that boost the start of your next turn.
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2017, 10:34:24 am »
+2

Caravan is worse than Lab so +1 Action; at the start of your next turn +1 Card, +1 Action is worse than +1 Card, +1 Action; at the start of your next turn +1 Action which is again worse than Village. Delayed effects are nearly always worse than immediate effects with terminal draw (Tactician, Haunted Woods, Enchantress) being the only potential exception that comes to mind.

You're missing the reason why Caravan is worse than Lab. It's not that the draw is delayed. It's that Caravan is unavailable next turn because it's a Duration. You need twice as many of them to get the same number of cards, which is also part of the reason so many old-school games opened with Caravan races. You needed lots of them. You didn't need lots of Labs, what the hell are you doing, there are better ways to spend $5, get some

If you had a Lab that was a Duration, where the Duration effect did nothing but keep it on the table an extra turn, it would be more similar to Caravan then to the current Lab. I presume it would be slightly less powerful.

You're gonna need lots of them, since they do get stuck in play like Caravans, but that's why the on-gain effect is really cool. There's not a huge penalty to buying lots of these, you get the instant reward of a larger hand.

Quote
Furthermore, if your argument were correct Ghost Village would be better than Village in several ways whereas in fact it is better in some ways (the quasi-Summon effect, the possibility to play this after having played a terminal draw and not having any actions left) and worse in others (worse than a delayed village).

I do think Ghost Village is stronger than Village in several ways and weaker only in the fact that it's a Duration (which makes it less available to your deck), but that's the sort of thing we'll have to find out for ourselves. Well, mostly you. Because I don't play anymore, I just look at the shiny new stuff and talk strategy. There was a time back on Isotropic where there were two names at the top of the leaderboard and then my name, and that didn't last very long but I'm still dang proud of it. After a long time, I learned that those two names were always going to be above me and maybe the correct thing to do was go get better at something else instead. Anyway, that's my life story. This is fun. I had to look up Haunted Woods and Enchantress because I've never played with them, they're after my time. You kids don't know how good you have it, or something.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 10:38:26 am by Stealth Tomato »
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