Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8  All

Author Topic: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town  (Read 11707 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LastFootnote

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6701
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2017, 11:13:16 am »
+5

Raider kinda makes me wonder why it's not a Treasure? Except for theme of course. At this point I think that Night cards are mostly a new mechanic in order to not confuse casual players by having cards with Treasure type that don't provide money. All of what we've seen here could easily be implemented using existing mechanics for Treasure cards.

It's true! These Night cards could have instead been awful, wordy messes filled with tracking issues. Boy howdy.
Wow. No need to get touchy. It wasn't meant as criticism.

Sorry! I wasn't actually angry. But seriously, I have trouble remembering to use my Schemes at end of turn (IRL), and my Treasuries are often just Peddlers. Having delayed effects like that is great to avoid whenever possible.

And mostly cards can't just be "When you gain this, play it" due to Watchtower, etc. Because even if you hijack the card and move it elsewhere so it doesn't go into play, the on-play effect still happens. And for Durations that means that there's a next-turn effect but nothing to track it.

Plus it's a cool new phase! So it's got that going for it.

EDIT: Oh, and for Raider specifically, if it were a Treasure, you could Herbalist/Mandarin/Mint it, and then there'd be nothing tracking the next-turn effect. In general this makes Treasure-Durations hard to pull off.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:15:31 am by LastFootnote »
Logged

Ankenaut

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +121
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2017, 11:14:25 am »
0

Devil's Workshop is already giving me unpleasant flashbacks to Treasure Hunter and truly not remembering how many cards I'd gained on my previous turn, but I guess 0-2 isn't much of a range and I have more incentive to keep track of the number if it's for my benefit, not my opponent's.

Also, remembering how many cards you just gained so far on this current turn is a little easier than remembering how many cards your opponent gained on their last turn.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9920
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9969
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2017, 11:16:16 am »
+1

Devil's Workshop is already giving me unpleasant flashbacks to Treasure Hunter and truly not remembering how many cards I'd gained on my previous turn, but I guess 0-2 isn't much of a range and I have more incentive to keep track of the number if it's for my benefit, not my opponent's.

Well, it's probably a lot easier to track what you've gained this turn vs. what you'd gained on your previous turn, especially since you should be already planning to gain a specific number of cards to begin with, to get the card you want out of Devil's Workshop.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6421
  • Respect: +7025
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2017, 11:30:31 am »
+1

Is there a rule for when a Night Phase exists in the game? Does it exist in any game where at least 1 Night card is in the game? Or is it just always there, and doesn't do anything in most games? The distinction matters only for teaching I suppose.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

McGarnacle

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1030
  • Shuffle iT Username: McGarnacle
  • So, ya like doughnuts, eh?
  • Respect: +549
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2017, 11:34:53 am »
+4

Dang, these are cool. I like the grey background for Devil's Workshop.

Man, I can't think of what to say about these cards. Dominion Previews are like meeting your crush; you think of what it will be like and what you will say, but when it happens you can't think of anything insightful or clever.
Logged
This is exactly the kind of deep analysis I come to f.ds for. 

Forum Mafia Record
Town 1/2 50%
Scum 0/0 0%

Minotaur

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1688
  • Respect: +2757
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2017, 11:35:22 am »
+2

I sill do not quite understand Raider: I play it during Night phase. My opponents need to discard all cards that I played before (during Day) and all cards I played during night. So if I played [Village, Smithy Mountebank, Copper, Gold] before the night phase and then I play Raider and Devil's Workshop - how is it determined which cards my opponents need to discard? He probably has a 5 card hand at that time, so he only needs to discard 1 card, right?

*  Your opponent discards a copy of a card you have in play.  Their choice.  (I can guess this with 99% confidence from previous experience with Dominion rulesheets.  "The player to your left eats a donut" always mean they go to the Donut box, choose a donut if there are any left, and if so, eats it.  If you had to choose which donut for them, the card would specify explicitly.)

*  You don't just throw all your cards on the table at once.  You play them one at a time.  If you play Raider before Devil's Workshop, then the opponent does not have the choice to discard Devil's Workshop, and instead chooses one of the other five cards or another Raider.  If you play Devil's Workshop and then Raider, then they may choose any of the seven cards you now have in play.  If you play a second Raider, then this one does nothing unless you increased your opponent's handsize, such as by playing Council Room or gaining a Lost City or if they had bought Expedition.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:38:25 am by Minotaur »
Logged
Storyteller/Crown is Donald's Vietnam Watergate.  Alchemy is Donald's Vietnam.  Scout is the time Donald choked on a pretzel.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3275
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1880
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2017, 11:37:54 am »
+1

I wonder if there will be a card that lets you play other action cards as Night cards for a turn. Kinda like a Villa/Mission mash up.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6421
  • Respect: +7025
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2017, 11:47:54 am »
+1

I wonder if there will be a card that lets you play other action cards as Night cards for a turn. Kinda like a Villa/Mission mash up.

I think the problem with that is that a large majority of action cards would do nothing if you play them during the Night phase. +Buy, +, and +Action are worthless. +Card is mostly worthless unless you draw more Night cards with it. Gaining and attacking are mostly the same, but even most of those cards still rely on some vanilla bonus to be worth playing.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

crlundy

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 165
  • Respect: +187
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2017, 11:50:19 am »
+2

Nocturne didn't start out planning to have a Duration card theme but there are several of them.
Sure makes for some themely Halloween card frames!
Logged

Minotaur

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1688
  • Respect: +2757
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2017, 11:52:17 am »
0

I wonder if there will be a card that lets you play other action cards as Night cards for a turn. Kinda like a Villa/Mission mash up.

I think the problem with that is that a large majority of action cards would do nothing if you play them during the Night phase. +Buy, +, and +Action are worthless. +Card is mostly worthless unless you draw more Night cards with it. Gaining and attacking are mostly the same, but even most of those cards still rely on some vanilla bonus to be worth playing.

Maybe if it played the action at the start of your next turn, though...
Logged
Storyteller/Crown is Donald's Vietnam Watergate.  Alchemy is Donald's Vietnam.  Scout is the time Donald choked on a pretzel.

grrgrrgrr

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
  • Respect: +22
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2017, 12:00:31 pm »
+1

I was wondering: How does Devil's Workshop work with Donate? With T2 donate, it would be (in a 4/3 opening):
T1: Buy Devil's Workshop
T2: Buy Donate ($5 debt remaining)
T3: Play $0, buy nothing, gain Gold ($5 debt remaining)
T4: Play $3, buy nothing, gain Gold ($2 debt remaining)
T5: Play $6, get two cards costing up to $4, or buy nothing and gain Gold

So your deck can be 2 golds, two $4 cards and a Devil's Workshop at T5. Sounds like a really strong Golden Deck enabler if Bishop is available.
Logged

Ankenaut

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +121
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2017, 12:03:21 pm »
0

I wonder if there will be a card that lets you play other action cards as Night cards for a turn. Kinda like a Villa/Mission mash up.

I think the problem with that is that a large majority of action cards would do nothing if you play them during the Night phase. +Buy, +, and +Action are worthless. +Card is mostly worthless unless you draw more Night cards with it. Gaining and attacking are mostly the same, but even most of those cards still rely on some vanilla bonus to be worth playing.

Right, we've seen some of the things people speculated would be part of a Night phase (gaining, attacking, setting up your next hand), but the main four resources don't make sense. I bet there's at least one Night card that can trash in-play cards.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +854
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2017, 12:08:14 pm »
0

Raider is slow non-terminal money.  Setting up a Raider each turn will usually better than Gold, if you can tolerate the turn delay.  Nice art.

It's my favorite art of the cards we've seen so far, but I'm struggling to predict how strong this card will be. It's Swamp Hag's bonus (but free to play) with what seems like a pretty weak attack.

I think it will often be worse than Gold.

It's also worth noting that, unlike Swamp Hag, it can't be Throned (although it's possible we've got a Night-Throne card coming), and unlike Gold, it can't be Crowned or Counterfeited.
Logged

Jeebus

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 990
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +705
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2017, 12:09:00 pm »
+2

Raider kinda makes me wonder why it's not a Treasure? Except for theme of course. At this point I think that Night cards are mostly a new mechanic in order to not confuse casual players by having cards with Treasure type that don't provide money. All of what we've seen here could easily be implemented using existing mechanics for Treasure cards.

Another reason why making them Treasure cards is not such a hot idea: Treasure cards are supposed to give you Coins. Horn of Plenty is the exception, but I actually think it's pretty clunky that it's a Treasure that gives $0; it would be better as a Night card I think. (Charm can also give you $0, but it can also give you $2 and has to be a Treasure.) Anyway, my point is that adding a bunch of new Treasures that never give any Coins, even if it works rules-wise, would just dilute the whole consept of Treasures. Especially for new/casual players.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 12:10:26 pm by Jeebus »
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +854
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2017, 12:10:08 pm »
0

Devil's Workshop + Villa enables you to return to the Action phase from Night phase (at most twice?).

Or not.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 12:15:47 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
Logged

markus

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 149
  • Shuffle iT Username: markus
  • Respect: +97
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2017, 12:13:24 pm »
+2

Devil's Workshop + Villa enables you to return to the Action phase from Night phase (at most twice?).

No, night phase is not buy phase.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +854
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2017, 12:15:30 pm »
0

Devil's Workshop + Villa enables you to return to the Action phase from Night phase (at most twice?).

No, night phase is not buy phase.

Oh, you're right. Ha! I forgot there was that qualifier on it. I suppose initially that qualifier was important for distinguishing your turn from your opponent's, but now it's more important.

I'm still holding out hope for a card that lets you jump back from Night to "Day".
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 12:17:05 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
Logged

allanfieldhouse

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 160
  • Respect: +221
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2017, 12:42:19 pm »
+1

Ghost Town sounds awesome! Think of all those times when Summoning a random cantrip is worth it just for the Village effect. Well, now it only costs $3, and you can still get bonus actions out of it later on.

How does Ghost Town, Smithy compare to Village, Smithy? Can someone math for me? Seems like it'll be great simply because of the increased starting hand size coupled with the starting actions.
Logged

kieranmillar

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Shuffle iT Username: kieranmillar
  • Respect: +122
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2017, 12:51:08 pm »
+2

While Ghost Town looks awesome, the fact it is a stop card on the turn you draw it could be a significant downside. I predict it will be a card that's easy to overbuy but will be pretty good if you have a few of them. I wonder if you can fall into a trap where the extra draw helps you draw... more Ghost Towns, so you don't really improve your draw at all (but are getting extra actions so that's good). Honestly all these cards seem hard to guage right now, which is awesome. More to figure out through play!
Logged

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 865
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • lockjaw
  • Respect: +1207
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2017, 01:27:17 pm »
+2

It's as easy as A B N C!
hey that's my favorite jackson 5.8 song
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'
5-6
i'll come runnin, if you love me today

Jeebus

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 990
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +705
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2017, 01:30:22 pm »
0

Ghost Town gives the same card draws as Village over two turns, and doesn't miss the shuffle like a Duration. Starting your turn with extra draw is usually very good, so to me it seems better than Village. Especially considering the fact that it also effectively does its thing as a when-gain effect.

EDIT: Doh, forgot that it actually is a Duration. That might be its biggest weakness and the reason it might not be better than Village. But it also means it's even harder to over-invest in Ghost Towns.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 02:20:25 pm by Jeebus »
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2748
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3200
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2017, 01:32:16 pm »
+2

Ghost Town gives the same card draws as Village over two turns, and doesn't miss the shuffle like a Duration.

Huh? Ghost Town is a Duration.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4507
  • Respect: +18034
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2017, 02:39:20 pm »
+3

DX: is the night phase something you have had in mind for awhile now or is it something newer?
The idea of adding a phase was old; what I would actually get out of it, I didn't find out until I tried it for this set.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4507
  • Respect: +18034
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2017, 02:40:07 pm »
+10

Is there a rule for when a Night Phase exists in the game? Does it exist in any game where at least 1 Night card is in the game? Or is it just always there, and doesn't do anything in most games? The distinction matters only for teaching I suppose.
I will try not to let this ever matter, and let's say, it's only there if you have Night cards in the game.
Logged

ozyx

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2017, 03:53:51 pm »
0

I sill do not quite understand Raider: I play it during Night phase. My opponents need to discard all cards that I played before (during Day) and all cards I played during night. So if I played [Village, Smithy Mountebank, Copper, Gold] before the night phase and then I play Raider and Devil's Workshop - how is it determined which cards my opponents need to discard? He probably has a 5 card hand at that time, so he only needs to discard 1 card, right?

He discards one of Village, Smithy, Mountebank, Copper, Cold, Raider, Devil's Workshop.
To clarify, I think each other player must discard one card that matches one of the cards you have in play, and, as usual, if there is more than one that they could discard, they get to choose.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 03:55:55 pm by ozyx »
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8  All
 

Page created in 0.201 seconds with 20 queries.