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Author Topic: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town  (Read 14625 times)

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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #200 on: December 14, 2017, 03:28:45 pm »
0

That's how Donald originally had it, for like one game. It just destroyed turns, I believe.

I suspected that might have been the case. I'm probably underestimating how strong its "targeted" attack is if used carefully.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 06:44:38 pm by Cave-o-sapien »
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Gazbag

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #201 on: December 14, 2017, 06:26:33 pm »
0

I find Raider strange, if you can't trash Copper then it's just a big Cutpurse thing, but if you have trashed your Coppers then your deck is often in a state where discarding 1 card doesn't do much either and it hurts about as much as Urchin. I can see a small window where your deck is starting to kick off but you still have a few Coppers/Estates left where the attack could be devastating, but things would have to line up right and I'm not sure how often I'd want to spend a $6 buy on a stop card at that stage. I guess it can punish early greening maybe?

It seems better than the first 1 or 2 Golds in Big Money, but that's only come up for me once so far and my Raiders missed the shuffle a few times so it didn't work out well on that occasion. But if they don't miss it's clearly better than Gold so I assume that was just a bad game, small sample and all that.
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markusin

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #202 on: December 14, 2017, 07:56:04 pm »
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Sometimes Urchin is a good card. Raider is that with a delayed Gold effect (but maybe you need 2).
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faust

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #203 on: December 15, 2017, 01:17:26 am »
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Sometimes Urchin is a good card. Raider is that with a delayed Gold effect (but maybe you need 2).
Not really; the times when Urchin shines is mostly when you make your opponent draw big hands with Governor/Council Room, and then have them discard down to 4. Raider can't do that.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Chris is me

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #204 on: December 15, 2017, 09:24:05 am »
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Raider sucks lol

Like, ďsucksĒ in dominion is relative, thereís still times youíll buy it, thereís still boards for it, and if it kills a turn once it was probably worth it. But damn itís expensive and hard to make work for a payoff greater than forcing a Copper discard. Buying two cards to force a discard attack every turn that seems to miss more easily than Militia, a card you only need one of... and having those cards cost $6... Ugh.

At least itís competitive with Gold once an engine is consistently set up. And if you are lucky and careful enough to force a Village discard its awesome.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:25:41 am by Chris is me »
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weesh

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #205 on: December 15, 2017, 10:35:22 am »
+1

out of the 8 or so times I've seen it played, it completely wrecked someone's turn twice.
i'm so glad it's a duration, and I don't have to face the same one every turn.

Quote
Never get more than two.

Any particular reason?  It seems like a card that stacks decently well, since you could get a weak card on the first discard, and then force a strong discard.
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Chappy7

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #206 on: December 15, 2017, 10:56:13 am »
+2

out of the 8 or so times I've seen it played, it completely wrecked someone's turn twice.
i'm so glad it's a duration, and I don't have to face the same one every turn.

Quote
Never get more than two.

Any particular reason?  It seems like a card that stacks decently well, since you could get a weak card on the first discard, and then force a strong discard.

Only if they had more than 5 cards in their hand in the first place. 
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crj

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #207 on: December 15, 2017, 07:28:15 pm »
+1

Raider sucks lol
[...]
At least itís competitive with Gold once an engine is consistently set up.
So what would a fair price be for a Night-Duration card that was just "At the start of your next turn, +$3"?
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Asper

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #208 on: December 15, 2017, 09:58:25 pm »
+1

Raider sucks lol
[...]
At least itís competitive with Gold once an engine is consistently set up.
So what would a fair price be for a Night-Duration card that was just "At the start of your next turn, +$3"?

5$, I'd say. It wouldn't be great compared to other 5$ s that give +3$, simply because in the very early game it's worse than those and in the midgame you could have Gold instead, but I don't see it at 4$, honestly. Some people will say 4$ is enough, but I'd rather give such a card a little extra boost, or some slight additional downside to make it work for 4$.

crj

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #209 on: December 15, 2017, 11:13:23 pm »
+1

$4 or $5 is my instinct, too.

Costing an extra $1 or $2 and incorporating an attack that will usually be vexatious and situationally pretty nasty seems fair enough to me.
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ipofanes

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #210 on: January 08, 2018, 03:57:10 am »
+3

There is a benefit of damaging the current turn while boosting the next one, and of not taking an Action slot. Otherwise, you could wonder how Den of Sin is $5 while Moat is $2, or while Enchantress is $3.
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popsofctown

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #211 on: January 09, 2018, 02:00:15 am »
0

It varies, right?  When the turn you damage buys a 2$ card that'd you'd happily spend 4 on, then shoots your next turn that would have been a 3$ turn to a 5 or six, that's sweet.  But if it sends you from 5$ to 8$, and you don't have a +buy and it's early, you probably don't gain that much (probably you buy the Province anyway, but it's not really a powerful pickup too early).
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ipofanes

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #212 on: January 09, 2018, 07:52:43 am »
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Your first example hints at an early Encampment/Gold gambit.

You cannot foresee the next hand exactly, but a conclusion would be that you can make a mediocre turn a bad turn but not a bad turn a visit to Baths, as your next tern will already be good enough.
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faust

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Re: Previews #1: Devil's Workshop, Raider, Ghost Town
« Reply #213 on: January 09, 2018, 08:27:26 am »
+1

There is a benefit of damaging the current turn while boosting the next one, and of not taking an Action slot. Otherwise, you could wonder how Den of Sin is $5 while Moat is $2, or while Enchantress is $3.
Den of Sin is $5 because it's an Expedition the turn you buy it.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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