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Author Topic: Is there any update on Nocturne?  (Read 15890 times)

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2017, 12:50:44 pm »
+4

Event, $40
New Dominion Expansion
Open the box. If you did, examine the contents.

Setup: In games involving this, read teasers and previews of upcoming cards(haped-things). Speculate on how they would interact with the rest of the board.

Also speculate on how they would interact with Scout.

Event, $40
Expansion Advance
You may trash all of the Scouts from your collection. If you did, gain an Expansion containing cards better than Scout.

The last bit is redundant; you can shorten it to "gain an Expansion containing cards." *

Or maybe just put it as a parenthetical reminder: "(All cards are better than Scout.)"

*The remaining redundancy is intentional.

Bomb is worse

Bomb can get rid of itself and Scout. That makes it way better than Scout.
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Watno

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2017, 01:20:34 pm »
+1

Right, which all means that you don't buy an Event card.
It contradicts this.
Rule #2) Buying an Event means paying its cost, stated on the Event card, and then doing the effect stated on the Event card.
It clearly says the cost is stated on the event.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make anymore. Quoting myself: It's still not wrong to talk about Event cards as "Events", just like we talk about Action cards as "Actions". But nowhere in the rules are actual Events (the thing you can buy) called Event cards. It seems like you're saying that the rules talk about buying Event cards (or else I don't see the contradiction you're talking about). But of course the rules don't say that, since, you know... buying an Event is not buying a card. So maybe you can make your case in a bit more structured way this time.
Ok, I'll try to put in a very simple way so you can understand it.

Your case seems to be that an event card is something totally unrelated to the event. The rules make clear that the thing you can buy is the thing that has a cost printed on it.
Quote
Buying an Event means paying the cost indicated on the Event and then doing the effect of the Event.
You claim that you don't buy Events, but buy this totally unrelated "Event card" thing. It follows that the Event card is not the thing that has a cost printed on it.
So it's entirely unclear to me what you think an Event card is.

It makes way more sense that an Event and the corresponding Event card are the same thing, and that they're not cards, in a similar way as Fool's Gold is not Gold, and you can't gain it with Bandit.


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pacovf

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2017, 01:25:10 pm »
+1

So maybe you can make your case in a bit more structured way this time.
Ok, I'll try to put in a very simple way so you can understand it.

Hm maybe time to tone it down a notch or ten?
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Marcory

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2017, 04:48:28 pm »
+6

So maybe you can make your case in a bit more structured way this time.
Ok, I'll try to put in a very simple way so you can understand it.

Hm maybe time to tone it down a notch or ten?

Or at least tone it up to the level of a classic insult: "I'll explain, and I'll use small words so that you can understand, you warthog-faced buffoon."
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Jeebus

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2017, 05:36:43 pm »
0

You claim that you don't buy Events, but buy this totally unrelated "Event card" thing.

Instead of making another long post, I'll just say that you've got that exactly backwards. I claim the opposite of that. Now go back and check which parts that you still want to say.

Loempiaverkoper

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #80 on: October 20, 2017, 07:03:10 am »
0

The current expected ship date is the first week of November. Teasers start October 20 and previews 23-27. The rules will likely go online around the physical release date and it is planned to be availible online the same time it releases.

at what time?

:o can't wait.
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LaLight

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2017, 07:06:57 am »
+1

The current expected ship date is the first week of November. Teasers start October 20 and previews 23-27. The rules will likely go online around the physical release date and it is planned to be availible online the same time it releases.

at what time?

:o can't wait.

According to LFN in Discord, in ~3,5 hours
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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2017, 08:08:27 am »
0

Can't wait either :) Thanks for the info!
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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2017, 08:37:01 am »
+4

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2017, 04:51:21 am »
0

You claim that you don't buy Events, but buy this totally unrelated "Event card" thing.

Instead of making another long post, I'll just say that you've got that exactly backwards. I claim the opposite of that. Now go back and check which parts that you still want to say.

Oh, I'm sorry, I got very confused by your distinction between two things that are the same. See the fixed version below.

Your case seems to be that an event card is something totally unrelated to the event. The rules make clear that the thing you can buy is the thing that has a cost printed on it.
Quote
Buying an Event means paying the cost indicated on the Event and then doing the effect of the Event.
You claim that you don't buy Events this weird event card thing, but buy this totally unrelated "Event card" thing the Event itself. It follows that the Event card is not the thing that has a cost printed on it. Note this conclusion makes sense now with the change in the sentence before
So it's entirely unclear to me what you think an Event card is.

It makes way more sense that an Event and the corresponding Event card are the same thing, and that they're not cards, in a similar way as Fool's Gold is not Gold, and you can't gain it with Bandit.
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Jeebus

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2017, 10:44:34 am »
+3

Ok, so your argument rests on this foundation: Events are the same as Event cards, and so whenever it says "Event", it's short for Event card (like Treasure or Attack). So you actually claim that we buy Event cards, but Event cards are not considered cards. I'm sorry, but this is pretty weird. A card is actually a physical component that you can buy and gain in Dominion, this is why buying an Event is not buying a card, because you can't actually buy that card. You say "Event card" is just a name, like "Fool's Gold". But "Event card" is clearly not a name (except for the "Event" part), it's called that because it's an actual card! Do you really think it's just a coincidence that Donald chose to call it Event card and it also happens to be a card physically speaking? A Coin token is called that, but it's because it's physically a token, so when Possession mentions tokens, Coin tokens are included. By the same token :p Event cards are physical cards, but the cost stated on them is not the cost of buying the actual card (since, you know, you can't), but rather the cost of buying the Event it describes.

Note that nowhere do the rules ever talk about buying an Event card. Event cards are only mentioned as something that is included in the game and can be shuffled during setup.

You claim that you don't buy this weird event card thing, but buy the Event itself. It follows that the Event card is not the thing that has a cost printed on it.

No, that doesn't follow at all. Costs of things you can buy can be printed on all kinds of game components: game boards, player aids, cards, tiles, even rulebooks. It's just that for Events in Dominion, the cost and the thing you get are both printed on the same card. That's not disputable. The thing you get is not that card. That's not disputable either.

Watno

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #86 on: October 21, 2017, 11:22:37 am »
0

Can you explain to me what you believe an event card is?

I could see a distition between the physical object and the "rules" of an event, but as I stated previously, the rules clearly say that the cost is indicated on the event, so the physical object is referenced by the word event.

What makes me even more confused about this distinction you seem to be making is the way this discussion started:
Most likely the Heirlooms are cards* made out of cast iron, so that you can bequeath them to succeeding generations.

*card-shaped objects

Event cards and Landmark cards are also cards.
You mentioned that you believe Event cards and Landmark cards are cards in response to a disagreement about wether Heirlooms would be cards or just card-shaped objects, but you don't seem to disagree with the statement "Events are not cards", so I don't see why you would disagree with "Heirlooms might not be cards", just how you would disagree with the statement "Heirloom cards" might not be cards.
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Watno

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #87 on: October 21, 2017, 11:25:45 am »
0

By the same token :p Event cards are physical cards, but the cost stated on them is not the cost of buying the actual card (since, you know, you can't), but rather the cost of buying the Event it describes.

So what do you believe happens when I play a Bridge?
A) The cost of the Event card decreases, but the cost of the Event card does not.
B) Neither the cost of the Event nor the cost of the Event card decreases.
C) Both the costs decrease, but it somehow doesn't matter because Bridge's discount is only relevant when you buy a card
D) Something else
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Jeebus

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #88 on: October 21, 2017, 12:44:31 pm »
+1

Can you explain to me what you believe an event card is?

I could see a distition between the physical object and the "rules" of an event, but as I stated previously, the rules clearly say that the cost is indicated on the event, so the physical object is referenced by the word event.

An Event card is the physical card where the Event is described and the cost of the Event is stated.
The rules sometimes call Event cards "Events". (It crucially never does the opposite.) I already mentioned this twice, last time it was as a direct response to that very post where you stated that previously. Perhaps it would have made things clearer if the rules didn't do that.

You mentioned that you believe Event cards and Landmark cards are cards in response to a disagreement about wether Heirlooms would be cards or just card-shaped objects, but you don't seem to disagree with the statement "Events are not cards", so I don't see why you would disagree with "Heirlooms might not be cards", just how you would disagree with the statement "Heirloom cards" might not be cards.

When we talk about Kingdom cards, Events, Landmarks and other cards that are included in the game, we are talking about them as cards. So we mean Event cards (and Landmark cards). These cards can be shuffled and can be included in the game. Save is an Event card that can be included in a game, for instance if we draw that card from the shuffled pile of cards during setup. But when you buy Save, you buy the Event, not the Event card. When we talk about what's included in an expansion, it's pointless to talk about actual cards as "card-shaped objects".

So what do you believe happens when I play a Bridge?
A) The cost of the Event card decreases, but the cost of the Event card does not.
B) Neither the cost of the Event nor the cost of the Event card decreases.
C) Both the costs decrease, but it somehow doesn't matter because Bridge's discount is only relevant when you buy a card
D) Something else

(In A you state "Event card" twice.) B is more or less what I mean, except that it refers to the Event card is if it has a cost; it doesn't. The cost is for what you can buy. Something you can't buy wouldn't have a cost.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 12:48:22 pm by Jeebus »
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J Reggie

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #89 on: October 24, 2017, 06:50:17 pm »
0

So to continue the discussion of the card tray: I just tested it and 16 unsleeved cards fit nicely into a 10-card slot, so Heirlooms could be with their respective kingdom cards. Cemetery would probably take up a 20-card slot in that case. No idea about the Spirits, though. Maybe that'll become clear later on.

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #90 on: October 25, 2017, 01:06:44 pm »
0

No idea about the Spirits, though. Maybe that'll become clear later on.

My current theory is that the Spirits all belong to one pile like Knights/Prizes/Castles/Ruins, but the sorting of them doesn't matter, because cards will either tell you specifically which spirit to get, or will tell you to pick which one you want (like Tournament does with Prizes). I think that idea works given that the phrasing on cards have been "Gain a Ghost from its pile", rather than "Gain a Ghost from the Ghost pile" (or is that just a 2nd Edition thing?) Maybe Spirits fill the Ruins slot. Makes sense since having all of those separate piles on the table would be tedious. Although that didn't stop Travellers from existing, so I could be way off here.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #91 on: October 25, 2017, 02:45:18 pm »
+1

I think that idea works given that the phrasing on cards have been "Gain a Ghost from its pile", rather than "Gain a Ghost from the Ghost pile" (or is that just a 2nd Edition thing?)

It's not exactly a 2nd Edition thing, but you have the right idea. It just saves words, and there was no confusion, so we went with it.

I have no idea what goes where inside the actual Nocturne box, though.
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crj

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #92 on: October 25, 2017, 06:59:38 pm »
0

Out of interest, why the need to say "gain an XYZ from its pile" or "gain an XYZ from the XYZ pile" rather than merely "gain an XYZ", when gaining from a non-supply pile? Does the non-supply pile somehow mean it's no longer obvious and implicit where to gain from?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #93 on: October 25, 2017, 07:04:28 pm »
0

Out of interest, why the need to say "gain an XYZ from its pile" or "gain an XYZ from the XYZ pile" rather than merely "gain an XYZ", when gaining from a non-supply pile? Does the non-supply pile somehow mean it's no longer obvious and implicit where to gain from?

You can't gain cards that aren't in the Supply. Workshop can't gain Cursed Gold because it's not in the Supply. It needs to say "From its pile" to override that restriction. Otherwise you'd be playing Workshops to gain Mercenaries and Warriors with impunity.
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Donald X.

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #94 on: October 25, 2017, 08:00:01 pm »
+4

There was a delay shipping the trays, and we now expect Nocturne to ship (from RGG) on November 13.
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Jeebus

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #95 on: October 25, 2017, 08:22:42 pm »
0

Out of interest, why the need to say "gain an XYZ from its pile" or "gain an XYZ from the XYZ pile" rather than merely "gain an XYZ", when gaining from a non-supply pile? Does the non-supply pile somehow mean it's no longer obvious and implicit where to gain from?

"Gain card x" means "Gain card x from the Supply". (Otherwise "gain a Wharf" would let you gain the Wharf your opponent has in play.)

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #96 on: October 25, 2017, 10:32:42 pm »
+1

There was a delay shipping the trays, and we now expect Nocturne to ship (from RGG) on November 13.

I was so hoping it would be a Friday!
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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #97 on: October 26, 2017, 02:21:56 am »
+1

I usually buy Events when I play Dominion.
I bought the Event cards when I got my copy of Adventures.

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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #98 on: October 26, 2017, 02:23:11 am »
0

There was a delay shipping the trays, and we now expect Nocturne to ship (from RGG) on November 13.

My birthday!
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Re: Is there any update on Nocturne?
« Reply #99 on: October 26, 2017, 02:29:13 am »
+1

There was a delay shipping the trays, and we now expect Nocturne to ship (from RGG) on November 13.

My birthday!

Me too!
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