Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: Maximum Possible VP?  (Read 22961 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2017, 11:01:12 am »
+1

Play 5 Highways then Goons. Have Trader in hand. Buy Forum forever, gain an arbitrary amount of VP.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +397
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2017, 11:19:26 am »
+5

[...] gain an arbitrary amount of VP.
π is pretty arbitrary, as are -1, i, φ, e, sqrt(2) and Chaitin's constant :P
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 887
  • Respect: +1675
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2017, 11:43:24 am »
+4

The worst that can be said is that the phrase "going infinite" is vague or ambiguous.

I would agree that is one of the worst things one could say around here.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9625
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2017, 01:42:23 pm »
0

[...] gain an arbitrary amount of VP.
π is pretty arbitrary, as are -1, i, φ, e, sqrt(2) and Chaitin's constant :P

An arbitrary positive real integer, happy?  Also, π as a number is not at all arbitrary.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +397
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2017, 04:55:25 pm »
+3

An arbitrary positive real integer, happy?
Oh, I was happy all along, I was just f.ds'ing :P

You can use the combo to gain 0 VP, which only makes sense if you're making the pedantic point that 0 is non-positive. I think "real" is superfluous, though if people around you think "integers" sometimes refers to the Gaussian ones (ℤ[ i ]), then cool—I want to hang around in your social circle ;)

Also, "positive" implies an ordering; I don't know that there's a default ordering on complex integers (or on the complex numbers), which would push the interpretation of "An arbitrary positive integer, happy?" towards ℤ over ℤ[ i ].

Also, π as a number is not at all arbitrary.
I'll restate the definitions of "arbitrary" I just looked up as "unconstrained", "without system" and "whimsical". Certainly π is not without system; IINM there's a formula mapping n to the nth digit of π. Is this what you mean? If not, what then? My choice of π is somewhat whimsical, though.
Logged

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1400
  • Respect: +1705
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2017, 05:01:42 pm »
0

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Logged

navical

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 196
  • Respect: +268
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2017, 05:43:40 pm »
+1

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Not distinguishing between infinity and an unbounded limit is a very dangerous thing to do if you wish to make true statements.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2017, 05:45:20 pm »
+10

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Not distinguishing between infinity and an unbounded limit is a very dangerous thing to do if you wish to make true statements.
I used to think it was dangerous too, but over the course of my life I haven't so much as stubbed my toe over it. I'm beginning to think we can let it back on airplanes.
Logged

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +397
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2017, 06:03:20 pm »
+4

Dominion is a cool guy. Eh uses 'infinite' and 'unbounded' interchangeably and doesn't afraid of stubbing toe or anything.
Logged

fisherman

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
  • Shuffle iT Username: fisherman
  • Respect: +33
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2017, 07:10:35 am »
+1

[...] gain an arbitrary amount of VP.
π is pretty arbitrary, as are -1, i, φ, e, sqrt(2) and Chaitin's constant :P

An arbitrary positive real integer, happy?  Also, π as a number is not at all arbitrary.

Better to say "rational" rather than "real" to make clear you aren't in a number field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_integers.
Logged

mith

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +778
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2017, 04:54:16 pm »
+6

$0* Event
Go Infinite

+

*You may only buy this if you are trapped in an infinite unbounded loop of semantics.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2017, 05:05:22 pm »
0

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Not distinguishing between infinity and an unbounded limit is a very dangerous thing to do if you wish to make true statements.

What's the difference?
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +397
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2017, 06:13:41 pm »
0

... +aleph1 VP
Are (infinite) ordinal or cardinal numbers most appropriate here?
Logged

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1477
  • Respect: +1644
    • View Profile
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 887
  • Respect: +1675
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2017, 08:11:35 pm »
+2

I'm no mathematician, but shouldn't it be aleph-null?
Logged

navical

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 196
  • Respect: +268
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2017, 04:50:33 am »
+2

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Not distinguishing between infinity and an unbounded limit is a very dangerous thing to do if you wish to make true statements.

What's the difference?

Unbounded VP Action $notenough
+1 VP
You may play this again.

Infinite VP Action $notenough
+1VP per whole number greater than 0.

The first one can get you any number of VP, but at some point you have to stop, at which point you only have some finite number of VP.
The second one actually gets you infinite VP, because you get them all at once.
Logged

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 774
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +971
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2017, 05:01:25 am »
0

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Not distinguishing between infinity and an unbounded limit is a very dangerous thing to do if you wish to make true statements.

What's the difference?

Unbounded VP Action $notenough
+1 VP
You may play this again.

Infinite VP Action $notenough
+1VP per whole number greater than 0.

The first one can get you any number of VP, but at some point you have to stop, at which point you only have some finite number of VP.
The second one actually gets you infinite VP, because you get them all at once.

What about

Unbounded VP Action $notenough
+1 VP
Play this again.
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2017, 06:08:37 am »
+1

In the sense that infinity is shorthand for an unbounded limit, I am completely fine with Awaclus' loop producing "infinite VPs" in the sense that for any real number, the loop can always produce more points than that.
Not distinguishing between infinity and an unbounded limit is a very dangerous thing to do if you wish to make true statements.

What's the difference?

Unbounded VP Action $notenough
+1 VP
You may play this again.

Infinite VP Action $notenough
+1VP per whole number greater than 0.

The first one can get you any number of VP, but at some point you have to stop, at which point you only have some finite number of VP.
The second one actually gets you infinite VP, because you get them all at once.

What about

Unbounded VP Action $notenough
+1 VP
Play this again.
It gives you some finite number of VP, until some time in the future when you stop playing the card because you have starved to death.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3457
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2017, 07:09:24 am »
+2

And all of our lives were enriched from this discussion, on a thing that totally matters in this context at all, whether or not the colloquial use of the word “infinite” in a context that literally everyone understands is technically correct or not. F.DS at its absolute finest.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

mith

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: mith
  • Respect: +778
    • View Profile
    • MafiaScum.net
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2017, 09:12:31 am »
+3

I'm no mathematician, but shouldn't it be aleph-null?

Are we now going to quibble over what the transfinite point value of a made-up card should be? Aleph-null is a boring and inadequate number of points to gain given the extreme unlikelihood of ever being able to trigger the buy condit... oh, right.

(With such a transcendental and complex discussion taking place, I'm just trying to keep it real.)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 09:16:55 am by mith »
Logged

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +397
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2017, 12:00:06 pm »
+4

Uh... that wasnt aleph-one...
My post assumed the continuum hypothesis :P
Logged

Haddock

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
  • Shuffle iT Username: Haddock
  • Doc Cod
  • Respect: +558
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2017, 12:06:03 pm »
+2

I don't know that there's a default ordering on complex integers (or on the complex numbers), which would push the interpretation of "An arbitrary positive integer, happy?" towards ℤ over ℤ[ i ].
There is no ordering on the complex numbers.
By ordering I here mean "ring ordering", ie one which respects both addition and multiplication.
(ie. x+a<y+a whenever x<y  and 0<a.b  whenever a,b>0.)

I believe the same is true of Z[ i ].
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1681
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1809
    • View Profile
Re: Maths Thread
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2017, 12:15:29 pm »
+1

Hey I can do math too: 1 + 1 = 2.
Logged
My magnum opus collection of dominion fan cards is available here!

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 348
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +397
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2017, 12:15:59 pm »
+2

There is no [ring] ordering on the complex numbers [nor complex integers].
Absolutely agree. You could do the lexicographic ordering, but no one does that on complex numbers. Failure to respect multiplication is probably the reason why :)
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Maximum Possible VP?
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2017, 02:19:00 pm »
+5

And all of our lives were enriched from this discussion, on a thing that totally matters in this context at all, whether or not the colloquial use of the word “infinite” in a context that literally everyone understands is technically correct or not. F.DS at its absolute finest.
Well the thread title asks for the maximum possible VP, so it seems directly relevant whether the answer is ∞ or "there is no maximum possible number of VP".
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All
 

Page created in 0.108 seconds with 21 queries.