Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [All]

Author Topic: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards  (Read 1482 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

secret tunnel

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« on: October 07, 2017, 11:29:10 pm »
0

I came across something weird in an online match today. I don't know if it was a glitch, or if I'm confused about the rules.

I played a Band of Misfits as a Ratcatcher. It behaved as expected on that turn—I got my cantrip, and then the card went onto the Tavern Mat. But on future turns I was never offered the opportunity to call it. When I bought a real Ratcatcher, it worked as expected, and I could call it just fine after playing it, but my BoM just sat on the mat the whole game, with no opportunity to do anything with it.

I noticed that the card appeared on the mat as 'Band of Misfits', not as 'Ratcatcher'—which maybe is why the automated system didn't give me the choice to call it. But is this how it's meant to be? Does playing a BoM as a Ratcatcher take it out of commission for the rest of the game? BoM says it remains the chosen card "until it leaves play". Does going to the Tavern Mat count as leaving play? If so, there are some pretty weird interactions one might not expect, like the one I just discovered. Does playing BoM as a reserve result in a one-way trip to the Tavern Mat?

(If so, this kind of thing would be a cute Possession trick.)
Logged

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3321
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2560
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 11:41:35 pm »
+5

BoM says "This is that card until it leaves play."  Once BoM has moved to the Tavern Mat, it has left play and ceases being a Ratcatcher.  BoM never says that you may call call it from the tavern mat so it's stuck there forever.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

secret tunnel

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
  • Respect: +3
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 12:57:59 am »
0

Wow! Thanks for confirming.

Do we have an actual definition for what makes something count as "in play"?
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2924
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3702
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 02:27:44 am »
+1

Wow! Thanks for confirming.

Do we have an actual definition for what makes something count as "in play"?

Yes, it's in the expansion rule books.

"Action cards and Treasure cards played face up into a play area are in play until they are moved somewhere else" is how Dark Ages puts it.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 02:28:47 am by AJD »
Logged

Dominionaer

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 112
  • Respect: +27
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 02:39:28 am »
0

Quote from: DOMINION (2nd Ed) rules page 7
"In play" - Being in a player's play area.
• Cards become "in play" when played, and usually stay there until discarded from play in Clean-up.
• Only played cards are in play; set aside cards, cards in the trash, in the Supply, in hands, etc., are not in play.

Edit: ninjad
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4795
  • Respect: +5119
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 10:08:36 am »
+12

Yes, Band of Misfits and Overlord are very heavy drinkers. If you send them to a tavern, they'll never leave. You can actually see it if you look at Overlord - that red nose wasn't caused by too much tea, you know.

dane-m

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 80
  • Shuffle iT Username: dane-m
  • Respect: +137
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 01:09:09 pm »
+1

Quote from: DOMINION (2nd Ed) rules page 7
"In play" - Being in a player's play area.
• Cards become "in play" when played, and usually stay there until discarded from play in Clean-up.
• Only played cards are in play; set aside cards, cards in the trash, in the Supply, in hands, etc., are not in play.
I believe I'm right in saying that called cards are also in play.  That's a potentially important consideration when Peddler is in the kingdom.

Writing the above has caused something to occur to me.  Consider a scenario in which you have two buys and a Duplicate on the Tavern mat.  After your first buy, you call the Duplicate to get a second copy of the gained card.  Presumably that causes the price of Peddler to drop by 2 between the first and second buys.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7367
  • Respect: +8189
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 03:32:10 pm »
0

Quote from: DOMINION (2nd Ed) rules page 7
"In play" - Being in a player's play area.
• Cards become "in play" when played, and usually stay there until discarded from play in Clean-up.
• Only played cards are in play; set aside cards, cards in the trash, in the Supply, in hands, etc., are not in play.
I believe I'm right in saying that called cards are also in play.  That's a potentially important consideration when Peddler is in the kingdom.

Writing the above has caused something to occur to me.  Consider a scenario in which you have two buys and a Duplicate on the Tavern mat.  After your first buy, you call the Duplicate to get a second copy of the gained card.  Presumably that causes the price of Peddler to drop by 2 between the first and second buys.

That's not the only time that can happen. If you buy a Mint or Mandarin with Crown in play, Peddler's cost will increase in between buys. Or with various Bonfire stuff.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Jeebus

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1236
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +912
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 11:23:20 pm »
0

Yes, it's in the expansion rule books.

Also in the 2nd edition of the base game rulebook.

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2924
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3702
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 01:26:01 am »
0

Yes, it's in the expansion rule books.

Also in the 2nd edition of the base game rulebook.

Oh, that's nice. Even though I think none of even the second-edition Dominion or Intrigue cards actually use "in play" as a mechanic.
Logged

Jeebus

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1236
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +912
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 10:18:59 am »
0

Oh, that's nice. Even though I think none of even the second-edition Dominion or Intrigue cards actually use "in play" as a mechanic.

Right, I should have also said that it's like this:
When it comes to 1st edition rulebooks, the base game rulebook doesn't have that rule, but all the expansion rulebooks do.
When it comes to 2nd edition rulebooks, it's the reverse; only the base game rulebook has it.

This is the case with several rules that only were in the expansion rulebooks earlier. So for people who only have the 1st edition rulebook and then get 2nd edition expansions, they will be missing several rules entirely.

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2924
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3702
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 11:25:24 am »
0

Oh, that's nice. Even though I think none of even the second-edition Dominion or Intrigue cards actually use "in play" as a mechanic.

Right, I should have also said that it's like this:
When it comes to 1st edition rulebooks, the base game rulebook doesn't have that rule, but all the expansion rulebooks do.
When it comes to 2nd edition rulebooks, it's the reverse; only the base game rulebook has it.

This is the case with several rules that only were in the expansion rulebooks earlier. So for people who only have the 1st edition rulebook and then get 2nd edition expansions, they will be missing several rules entirely.

Well, that’s not so nice.
Logged

Jeebus

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1236
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +912
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 01:32:09 pm »
0

Yes, I see that the 2nd edition expansion rulebooks say this:

Players will need the Treasure cards, Victory cards, Curse cards, and Trash mat/card from either Dominion or Base Cards (or older editions of Intrigue) and the rules from Dominion to play with this expansion.

They should probably also have specified "the rules from the second edition (or newer) of Dominion". I would also have added a link to those rules at riograndegames.com.

MatthewCA

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +77
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2018, 12:28:47 pm »
0

BoM says "This is that card until it leaves play."  Once BoM has moved to the Tavern Mat, it has left play and ceases being a Ratcatcher.  BoM never says that you may call call it from the tavern mat so it's stuck there forever.

Can the same be said for one-shots? Because they leave play just like reserve cards do. I've been thinking about this, and in order to be consistent it seems like as soon as a one shot is trashed, it's no longer that card and can't do the thing it's supposed to do. Lets look at am example.

I play BoM as Embargo. I follow the instructions on Embargo top to bottom (like I'm pretty sure I should) get +$2, then trash the Embargo that is actually a BoM. Since the card is no longer in play, do I get to put an embargo token on a supply pile? The BoM left play, and BoM doesn't tell me to put embargo tokens on things. Logic tells me I don't get to put an embargo token on anything. Am I wrong? And if so, why?
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7367
  • Respect: +8189
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 12:50:51 pm »
0

BoM says "This is that card until it leaves play."  Once BoM has moved to the Tavern Mat, it has left play and ceases being a Ratcatcher.  BoM never says that you may call call it from the tavern mat so it's stuck there forever.

Can the same be said for one-shots? Because they leave play just like reserve cards do. I've been thinking about this, and in order to be consistent it seems like as soon as a one shot is trashed, it's no longer that card and can't do the thing it's supposed to do. Lets look at am example.

I play BoM as Embargo. I follow the instructions on Embargo top to bottom (like I'm pretty sure I should) get +$2, then trash the Embargo that is actually a BoM. Since the card is no longer in play, do I get to put an embargo token on a supply pile? The BoM left play, and BoM doesn't tell me to put embargo tokens on things. Logic tells me I don't get to put an embargo token on anything. Am I wrong? And if so, why?

The card doesn't have to be itself, or even exist, to cause you to follow its instructions. You were told to play BoM "as Embargo", which means that you effectively "play Embargo", meaning you follow all instructions written on the Embargo card. The "this is that card until it leaves play" part doesn't matter here; even if BoM never became Embargo, you still would have been instructed to play BoM as Embargo.

The "this is that card until it leaves play" part of BoM only matters for effects look at or care what cards are in play.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

MatthewCA

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +77
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 04:13:35 pm »
0

BoM says "This is that card until it leaves play."  Once BoM has moved to the Tavern Mat, it has left play and ceases being a Ratcatcher.  BoM never says that you may call call it from the tavern mat so it's stuck there forever.

Can the same be said for one-shots? Because they leave play just like reserve cards do. I've been thinking about this, and in order to be consistent it seems like as soon as a one shot is trashed, it's no longer that card and can't do the thing it's supposed to do. Lets look at am example.

I play BoM as Embargo. I follow the instructions on Embargo top to bottom (like I'm pretty sure I should) get +$2, then trash the Embargo that is actually a BoM. Since the card is no longer in play, do I get to put an embargo token on a supply pile? The BoM left play, and BoM doesn't tell me to put embargo tokens on things. Logic tells me I don't get to put an embargo token on anything. Am I wrong? And if so, why?

The card doesn't have to be itself, or even exist, to cause you to follow its instructions. You were told to play BoM "as Embargo", which means that you effectively "play Embargo", meaning you follow all instructions written on the Embargo card. The "this is that card until it leaves play" part doesn't matter here; even if BoM never became Embargo, you still would have been instructed to play BoM as Embargo.

The "this is that card until it leaves play" part of BoM only matters for effects look at or care what cards are in play.

Being told to play a card, and a card telling you to play itself as though it was another card are not effectively the same.

What I see is a situation where, by playing a card, you've changed the instructions you have to follow on the card you just played. While you're trying to follow all the instructions on "Embargo", it reverts back to being a BoM. Everything you're being told to do after the card is removed from play is not resolvable because BoM specifically says, "this is that card until it leaves play". I take that to mean that after BoM is removed from play, its BoM again and loses all of the abilities it had when it was being played as Embargo.  That line (this is that card until it leaves play) matters because there has to be a time at which BoM stops being the card that its played as, and reverts back to BoM. What I'm trying to say is that, I see an issue with cards that change their abilities based on whether they are in play or not and I'm trying to better understand this interaction. I know the cards don't have to exist to be played, and that cards can be played from many different locations.

My understanding of the rules and rulings regarding BoM seem to confirm that this is the case as well. If you play it as Island, its removed from play and reverts back to being a BoM on the Island mat. Once BoM as Embargo is trashed, it's out of play and loses all of Embargo's abilities. It doesn't matter that this happens while you're still playing Embargo, BoM can't play abilities it doesn't have and has no access to.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7367
  • Respect: +8189
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2018, 04:18:30 pm »
+2

[...] BoM can't play abilities it doesn't have and has no access to.

Why not? A card could be printed that simply says "play this as if it were an Island", and nothing else. There is no need for the card to ever "become" the card it is being played as. The fact that BoM becomes Island temporarily is irrelevant to the overall outcome. It should play out exactly the same if BoM didn't have the "this is that card" text.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

MatthewCA

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +77
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2018, 05:06:23 pm »
0

[...] BoM can't play abilities it doesn't have and has no access to.

Why not?

Because if BoM can follow all the instructions on a card even after it's been removed from play, then why can we not call BoM as a reserve card back into play from the Tavern mat? When we Throne Room a BoM as a one shot, why do we play the one shot the first time we play BoM, and then as BoM the second time we play it? If BoM can (for lack of a better word) remember what card it was before it was removed from play, why can't it do it all the time.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7367
  • Respect: +8189
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2018, 05:13:40 pm »
0

[...] BoM can't play abilities it doesn't have and has no access to.

Why not?

Because if BoM can follow all the instructions on a card even after it's been removed from play, then why can we not call BoM as a reserve card back into play from the Tavern mat?

Playing a card only makes you follow all of the on-play instructions. To call a card, it needs to be on your Tavern Mat.

Quote
When we Throne Room a BoM as a one shot, why do we play the one shot the first time we play BoM, and then as BoM the second time we play it? If BoM can (for lack of a better word) remember what card it was before it was removed from play, why can't it do it all the time.

This one is trickier... but I don’t think BoM needs to “remember” anything; it’s  just that you were effectively told to follow the instructions on some other card.

Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Jeebus

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1236
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +912
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2018, 05:16:32 pm »
0

My understanding of the rules and rulings regarding BoM seem to confirm that this is the case as well. If you play it as Island, its removed from play and reverts back to being a BoM on the Island mat. Once BoM as Embargo is trashed, it's out of play and loses all of Embargo's abilities. It doesn't matter that this happens while you're still playing Embargo, BoM can't play abilities it doesn't have and has no access to.

In addition to what GendoIkari said, there seems to be a rule that when an ability is triggered, you resolve it in its entirety no matter what.

It's clear that BoM-as-Embargo reverts back to BoM after it's trashed, before you add an Embargo token. But there is no ruling saying that this has any impact on the ability that has already been triggered. There are just rulings saying that (1) if you play the card again, it's a BoM, and (2) an ability checking the card finds a BoM.

Thare are rulings (even in the rulebook) saying that when you trash a BoM-as-Fortress, the when-trash-ability of the Fortress is resolved, even though you actually resolve it when the Fortress is a BoM. So this supports the rule that you always resolve a triggered ability.

MatthewCA

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +77
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2018, 06:30:30 pm »
0

My understanding of the rules and rulings regarding BoM seem to confirm that this is the case as well. If you play it as Island, its removed from play and reverts back to being a BoM on the Island mat. Once BoM as Embargo is trashed, it's out of play and loses all of Embargo's abilities. It doesn't matter that this happens while you're still playing Embargo, BoM can't play abilities it doesn't have and has no access to.

In addition to what GendoIkari said, there seems to be a rule that when an ability is triggered, you resolve it in its entirety no matter what.

Unless you can not do it. Classic example is play a Smithy with an empty discard pile and only 2 cards in your deck. You can not completely resolve that because where does the third card you should draw come from?

Quote
It's clear that BoM-as-Embargo reverts back to BoM after it's trashed, before you add an Embargo token. But there is no ruling saying that this has any impact on the ability that has already been triggered. There are just rulings saying that (1) if you play the card again, it's a BoM, and (2) an ability checking the card finds a BoM.

What I'm saying is after BoM as a one shot tells you to trash itself, all other instructions on the card are lost, because it's not the one shot anymore. I can use an example without BoM that has the same behavior. Suppose I Inherit Mining Village and then Throne Room an Estate. The first time I play the Estate, I get +1 Card +2 Actions, and I choose to trash the Estate for +$2. The second time I play the Estate, nothing should happen, because the Estate is in the trash and is not mine. The condition giving that card the abilities is gone, therefore the abilities are gone too.
Quote


Thare are rulings (even in the rulebook) saying that when you trash a BoM-as-Fortress, the when-trash-ability of the Fortress is resolved, even though you actually resolve it when the Fortress is a BoM. So this supports the rule that you always resolve a triggered ability.

This doesn't affect BoM as a card with a when trash ability because when you trash the card with a when trash ability, two things are happening at the same time, the when trash ability triggers, and BoM loses all of its abilities it got from being played as an action card from the supply. You can simply choose to resolve the when trash ability before BoM loses it.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5137
  • Respect: +21063
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2018, 07:00:40 pm »
+2

Once you start executing the instructions on "Band of Misfits as other card," you finish them even if Band of Misfits becomes something else in the middle. If you play Band as Embargo, you do all of what Embargo does, even though Band is trashed in the middle there.

Sorry again that I didn't manage to do it like Necromancer. Maybe someday.
Logged

vishwathg

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
  • Respect: +86
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2018, 07:23:32 pm »
0

So if you Procession a Band of Misfits-as-Catacombs (where Catacombs has the -$2 token on it), what happens?
Logged

MatthewCA

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
  • Respect: +77
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2018, 08:05:22 pm »
0

So if you Procession a Band of Misfits-as-Catacombs (where Catacombs has the -$2 token on it), what happens?

From the Wiki for Band of Misfits

Quote
If you Procession a Band of Misfits, you will gain a $6 Action, since Band of Misfits will be in the trash (and thus cost $5, since it has left play) when Procession checks its cost.

EDIT: And I imagine you'd gain a card costing less than the cost reduced Catacombs
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:08:46 pm by MatthewCA »
Logged

Jeebus

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1236
  • Shuffle iT Username: jeebus
  • Respect: +912
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2018, 08:16:43 pm »
0

In addition to what GendoIkari said, there seems to be a rule that when an ability is triggered, you resolve it in its entirety no matter what.

Unless you can not do it. Classic example is play a Smithy with an empty discard pile and only 2 cards in your deck. You can not completely resolve that because where does the third card you should draw come from?

That's because of the rule "do as much as you can", which always applies, and changes nothing in this case. When I say "resolve it in its entirety no matter what", I mean just that. Resolving it means following all the instructions while abiding by the rule "do as much as you can".

Quote
What I'm saying is after BoM as a one shot tells you to trash itself, all other instructions on the card are lost, because it's not the one shot anymore. I can use an example without BoM that has the same behavior. Suppose I Inherit Mining Village and then Throne Room an Estate. The first time I play the Estate, I get +1 Card +2 Actions, and I choose to trash the Estate for +$2. The second time I play the Estate, nothing should happen, because the Estate is in the trash and is not mine. The condition giving that card the abilities is gone, therefore the abilities are gone too.

I understood that's what you're saying. When you play a card, you trigger its on-play ability, then resolve that ability fully (see above). If you then play that same card again (via Throne Room or whatever), you play its on-play ability again, but this is not a continuation of the first time you played it. It's completely separate. In other words, the on-play ability is triggered when you play the card, and that's the only time the on-play ability on the card is actually checked.

Quote
This doesn't affect BoM as a card with a when trash ability because when you trash the card with a when trash ability, two things are happening at the same time, the when trash ability triggers, and BoM loses all of its abilities it got from being played as an action card from the supply. You can simply choose to resolve the when trash ability before BoM loses it.

That's cleary false, because it's not optional to put the BoM in your hand.

chipperMDW

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 259
  • Respect: +558
    • View Profile
Re: Band of Misfits as Reserve Cards
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2018, 02:06:14 am »
+1

I play BoM as Embargo. I follow the instructions on Embargo top to bottom (like I'm pretty sure I should) get +$2, then trash the Embargo that is actually a BoM. Since the card is no longer in play, do I get to put an embargo token on a supply pile? The BoM left play, and BoM doesn't tell me to put embargo tokens on things. Logic tells me I don't get to put an embargo token on anything. Am I wrong? And if so, why?

Imagine that, as the first step of playing a card, you start by copying its on-play ability onto a Post-it. Then, you follow the instructions on the Post-it. If the text on the card changes while you're playing it, who cares? You're not looking at the card; you're following the instructions written on the Post-it. Then, when you're done playing the card, throw the Post-it away.

Now, imagine that you want to save trees and ink, so, instead of writing stuff on Post-its all the time, you do the same thing mentally.


Quote
Thare are rulings (even in the rulebook) saying that when you trash a BoM-as-Fortress, the when-trash-ability of the Fortress is resolved, even though you actually resolve it when the Fortress is a BoM. So this supports the rule that you always resolve a triggered ability.

This doesn't affect BoM as a card with a when trash ability because when you trash the card with a when trash ability, two things are happening at the same time, the when trash ability triggers, and BoM loses all of its abilities it got from being played as an action card from the supply. You can simply choose to resolve the when trash ability before BoM loses it.

That's not a "two things happen at the same time" scenario. There's only one thing happening there: a card is trashed. As part of being trashed, it stops being in play, so if an effect is causing it to have abilities as long as it's in play, it stops having those abilities.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]
 

Page created in 0.162 seconds with 21 queries.