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[WanderingWinder]

Treasure Map sounds fun.
Wins most kingdoms where Provinces are necessary, but would it lose to HT/Duke? Workshop/SR/Gardens?

Wins pretty much everywhere. Turn 1: trash 2 maps, 4 golds ON TOP OF DECK (this is massively huge). Turn 2:Buy Province. 16 turns for 8 provinces is pretty quick - there's no way that other stuff can compete. Now, can it be beat? Sure, you get the right kind of sick lock and it's going down. But you need something pretty degenerate.

[jonts26]

Pirate Ship

Beats strategies which needs treasures
Loses to strategies which don't.

Adventurer

Wins with fool's gold and gardens or dukes.
Loses to almost any kingdom without Fool's gold.

[Loschmidt]

Aahh, right i getcha

So, 50 nobles. 100 vps with chance to draw entire deck each time, so in eight turns it can buy a province each turn putting a clock on it.

So you'd need a colony kingdom. And a fast enough board to buy them all out, so would need bridge i wold expect.

But if you draw your entire deck its just nobles. It has no money! So you'd need to buy a copper for 3 turns, and then a silver for 2 turns and then a gold. And then you can start buying provinces. Still a 100vp lead is pretty hardcore. So it'll win.

Also is everyone severly overestimating Pawn??!!!

I can't think of any way 50 pawns could lose to 7c3e.

This was the original challenge my friend posed to me. My best guess so far (besides "no, it's impossible") has been something with Mountebank (perhaps with a 5/2 opening guaranteed), since the pawns wouldn't be able to block subsequent attacks like the smaller deck would.

If you want to cycle through your deck and play all of your pawns you need to play the first 45 as +1 card/+1 action then you can play the last 5 as 4x +$1/+1 action and last one as +$1/+buy. If you have 50 pawns you still only have $5 and 2 buys. So its good but i'm sure its beatable.

[jonts26]

I can't think of any way 50 pawns could lose to 7c3e.

This was the original challenge my friend posed to me. My best guess so far (besides "no, it's impossible") has been something with Mountebank (perhaps with a 5/2 opening guaranteed), since the pawns wouldn't be able to block subsequent attacks like the smaller deck would.

If you want to cycle through your deck and play all of your pawns you need to play the first 45 as +1 card/+1 action then you can play the last 5 as 4x +$1/+1 action and last one as +$1/+buy. If you have 50 pawns you still only have $5 and 2 buys. So its good but i'm sure its beatable.

Except $5 and 2 buys is strictly superior to whatever the copper/estate player starts with. Then you are guaranteed to see whatever it is you bought the next turn and the next and the next because you can use any pawn you dont need for money as a cantrip.

[WanderingWinder]

I realize that it doesn't really work for the challenge but...
The thought of 50 stashes amuses me. Pretty early, we can tell where the other cards are because they have the 'normal' back instead of the stash back. Huzzah!

(ok, yes I realize you'll have 8 provinces well before you reshuffle, but it's still humourous.)

[jonts26]

I realize that it doesn't really work for the challenge but...
The thought of 50 stashes amuses me. Pretty early, we can tell where the other cards are because they have the 'normal' back instead of the stash back. Huzzah!

(ok, yes I realize you'll have 8 provinces well before you reshuffle, but it's still humourous.)

There are quite a few cards which I think would be funny but either too strong or weak to consider: Ambassador, Haven, Library, Fairgrounds or Dukes, Envoy, or my favorite - Stables

[Loschmidt]

I can't think of any way 50 pawns could lose to 7c3e.

This was the original challenge my friend posed to me. My best guess so far (besides "no, it's impossible") has been something with Mountebank (perhaps with a 5/2 opening guaranteed), since the pawns wouldn't be able to block subsequent attacks like the smaller deck would.

If you want to cycle through your deck and play all of your pawns you need to play the first 45 as +1 card/+1 action then you can play the last 5 as 4x +$1/+1 action and last one as +$1/+buy. If you have 50 pawns you still only have $5 and 2 buys. So its good but i'm sure its beatable.

Except $5 and 2 buys is strictly superior to whatever the copper/estate player starts with. Then you are guaranteed to see whatever it is you bought the next turn and the next and the next because you can use any pawn you dont need for money as a cantrip.

Its definitely better than standard opening but mountbank would pose it serious troubles. Play mountbank 3 times and now there are 6 dead cards in your pawn stack so you're no longer guaranteed of finding your desired cards. If you draw those curses and copper before your awesome cards you've just played 20 pawns to pick up 3 curses and 2 coppers.

Strong but not unbeatable.

[O]

I can't think of any way 50 pawns could lose to 7c3e.

This was the original challenge my friend posed to me. My best guess so far (besides "no, it's impossible") has been something with Mountebank (perhaps with a 5/2 opening guaranteed), since the pawns wouldn't be able to block subsequent attacks like the smaller deck would.

If you want to cycle through your deck and play all of your pawns you need to play the first 45 as +1 card/+1 action then you can play the last 5 as 4x +$1/+1 action and last one as +$1/+buy. If you have 50 pawns you still only have $5 and 2 buys. So its good but i'm sure its beatable.

Except $5 and 2 buys is strictly superior to whatever the copper/estate player starts with. Then you are guaranteed to see whatever it is you bought the next turn and the next and the next because you can use any pawn you dont need for money as a cantrip.

Its definitely better than standard opening but mountbank would pose it serious troubles. Play mountbank 3 times and now there are 6 dead cards in your pawn stack so you're no longer guaranteed of finding your desired cards. If you draw those curses and copper before your awesome cards you've just played 20 pawns to pick up 3 curses and 2 coppers.

Strong but not unbeatable.

Except, as we said, you get mountebank T1 and play it turn 2, 3, 4, 5.. after you get 5+ cards pawn don't even harm you, just act as if they dont exist..

[jonts26]

Except the pawn player is guaranteed to buy it turn 1 and play it at least turns 2-9 or so before theres even the chance of the other playing it 3 times, and that's worst case scenario. All of those won't hit but enough will. There's simply no way the other player can compete with that.

[Loschmidt]

Except the pawn player is guaranteed to buy it turn 1 and play it at least turns 2-9 or so before theres even the chance of the other playing it 3 times, and that's worst case scenario. All of those won't hit but enough will. There's simply no way the other player can compete with that.

Yeah you're right I suppose. Its a guaranteed first turn $5 plus guaranteed playing it forever.....so there can't be a strong $5 attack on the board....

Oooh, Ambassador. It doesn't matter that the pawn player can play it first, all they can fling at their opponent is pawns.

[BaruMonkey]

Oooh, Ambassador. It doesn't matter that the pawn player can play it first, all they can fling at their opponent is pawns.

Until you Ambassador anything to them, at which point they fling it right back at you :-/

[Loschmidt]

Oooh, Ambassador. It doesn't matter that the pawn player can play it first, all they can fling at their opponent is pawns.

Until you Ambassador anything to them, at which point they fling it right back at you :-/

But that doesn't get them anywhere, just back to where they started and it takes them 1 dead card and an 1 action to send it back, so thats only $3 from their pawns on that turn. If they want to advance past $5/turn they need to just ignore your Ambassadoring and buy something useful.

[jonts26]

Ambassador won't slow down the pawn player much anyway. Turns 1/2 can be buying silver/gold. Then you can pretty much keep buying Gold as long as you feel like, even with the influx of coppers/estates. Then whenever you're ready, start buying provinces. Ambassador is already pretty weak against big money and the pawn deck is pretty much a super accelerated big money deck if you want it to be.

[Axxle]

Except the pawn player is guaranteed to buy it turn 1 and play it at least turns 2-9 or so before theres even the chance of the other playing it 3 times, and that's worst case scenario. All of those won't hit but enough will. There's simply no way the other player can compete with that.

Yeah you're right I suppose. Its a guaranteed first turn $5 plus guaranteed playing it forever.....so there can't be a strong $5 attack on the board....

Oooh, Ambassador. It doesn't matter that the pawn player can play it first, all they can fling at their opponent is pawns.

Unless they buy a curse with one of their +buys... I'm not sure if pawn is possible.

[theorel]

Answering the OP, I can think of 2 ideas, though I've not fleshed them out with particulars:

1. 50 Develops:
a) loses on a board with no 4's (and no 2's: 10 estates for the first 10 turns, or waste 'em all...yay!)
b) probably easy enough to make a board with some decent synergies that it can dominate.

2. 50 Upgrades:
b) This would quickly take a board with Border Village and Duchess.  (ooh 2 turn win )
a) I think the easiest way to make it likely to lose is the Ironworks-Island-Great Hall board, also with no 6's and 7's.  After the first 5 turns you have 25 upgrades, and all the golds.  Of course some lucky gold colisions could get you in the VPs, but you're upgrades are gonna be clogging things for at least a few more turns before you can reliably get good stuff going on.

[jonts26]

Answering the OP, I can think of 2 ideas, though I've not fleshed them out with particulars:

1. 50 Develops:
a) loses on a board with no 4's (and no 2's: 10 estates for the first 10 turns, or waste 'em all...yay!)
b) probably easy enough to make a board with some decent synergies that it can dominate.

Silk Road

[jimjam]

1. 50 hamlets:
a). Any isotropic board; your opponent dies of boredom.
b). Live; ~50 pawns.

[blueblimp]

1. 50 hamlets:
a). Any isotropic board; your opponent dies of boredom.
b). Live; ~50 pawns.

This was the first that came to mind to me. A serious winning kingdom would be if peddler is available. First turn, get 6 buys and buy 6 peddlers. Next turn, buy the rest of the peddlers. Now you have $10 guaranteed for several turns and as many buys as you like, definitely enough to win.

On a big money board, it's going to lose horribly.

[WanderingWinder]

1. 50 hamlets:
a). Any isotropic board; your opponent dies of boredom.
b). Live; ~50 pawns.

Much wore than 50 pawns. These provide no buying power.

[BaruMonkey]

1. 50 hamlets:
a). Any isotropic board; your opponent dies of boredom.
b). Live; ~50 pawns.

Much wore than 50 pawns. These provide no buying power.

That's a good thing, though; Pawn failed the test (since it always wins), and blueblimp showed that Hamlet can both win and lose!

[Young Nick]

I think that Duke could potentially be interesting. If the player can get to even 1-2 Duchies, the game might be over. However, throw a Ghost Ship or Torturer and things get interesting. I would imagine it would almost always lose? Not entirely sure, though.

[ycz6]

It seems impossible for the 50Duke player to win, actually. You'll have to spend at least 22 turns buying Coppers/$2 cards unless you get very lucky, by which point your opponent probably has all the Duchies easily.

[blueblimp]

It seems impossible for the 50Duke player to win, actually. You'll have to spend at least 22 turns buying Coppers/$2 cards unless you get very lucky, by which point your opponent probably has all the Duchies easily.

What if Crossroads is available? If the Duke player can snag one, that will speed up deck cycling by a ton.

[DStu]

It seems impossible for the 50Duke player to win, actually. You'll have to spend at least 22 turns buying Coppers/$2 cards unless you get very lucky, by which point your opponent probably has all the Duchies easily.

What if Crossroads is available? If the Duke player can snag one, that will speed up deck cycling by a ton.

You nevertheless need 10 turns until you can buy the XR and and on average 5 turns until you see it. 15 turns for 8 Duchies seems still trivial, especially if XR is available.  And even if you get 1 Duchy, you have 53VPs, which is not enough against 7 Duchies and 8 Provinces.  So you should at least get 2 Duchies.

[Asklepios]

Does this work?

1) Coppers
2) Duchies and Dukes kingdom
3) Kingdom with Chapel, King's Court and Goons.

I figure it'll be at least ten turns before the copper deck stops drawing $5