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Author Topic: Would like to hear thoughts on this board  (Read 532 times)

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xyz123

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Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« on: October 02, 2017, 03:27:21 pm »
+2

Hi, I recently played the following board in a couple games at a games club. I found it quite interesting and I would like to hear how people here would approach it.

The Board

Provinces/Shelters

- Beggar
- Raze
- Hermit
- Advisor
- Pirate Ship
- Bridge Troll
- Rogue
- Sentry
- Hireling
- Peddler

Event - Ferry
Landmark - Labyrinth

My thoughts and analysis of the board.

The first thing that jumped out at me was the combination of Madman and Bridge Troll and whether or not there is a potential mega turn (or turns) seeing as Bridge Troll is a duration. I thought about what such a deck would look like and thought you would probably need Bridge Trolls that you wouldn't have the terminal space for until you fire off the mega turn(s). Maybe there are some tricks in setting this up that I missed, but I discounted this idea.

All the engine components are here.
- Trashing (Raze, Hermit, Sentry)
- Draw (Advisor, Madman)
- Villages (Necropolis, Madman)
- Payload (Bridge Troll, Peddler and possibly Rogue or Hermit).
Villages are the interesting component on this board. There are limitations with both Necropolis and Madman so you still have to think about your terminal space. I think that some sort of engine is the right way to go.

Rogue allows you to retrieve Hermits from the trash. This means an infinite number of Madmen could potentially be played on this board. However there is an anti-synergy here with Bridge Troll. If a Bridge Troll has already been played or was played on the previous turn, Rogue can no longer gain Hermit. In my opinion Bridge Troll is the best payload card on this board and therefore the Rogue/Hermit/Madman interaction can be ignored.

I think Hermit is a stronger card here than it usually is. Labyrinth means it can score you points early on. There are also two sources of cost reduction so it can gain cards it is normally unable to.

What I did

The strategy I decided to go for was an engine that used Necropolis to play 2 Bridge Trolls each turn, meaning I have 4 in play at any one time. I went about it as follows.
- In the early stages use Hermits to gain Ferried Advisors whilst scoring Labyrinth points and trashing Overgrown Estates and Hovels.
- If I can afford to buy a Bridge Troll do so, otherwise buy Advisors.
- Once I have a Bridge Troll pick up a couple of Razes to trash Coppers, Hermits (once Advisors are out) and lastly themselves.
- Buy Bridge Trolls until I have 4. Use additional buys on Peddlers.

The Problem

This engine has horrible potential for choking when you start to green, I assume a risk associated with using Advisors for draw. If you don't manage to get two Bridge Trolls in play on a turn the problem snowballs. Not only does this hurt the current turn, but the next one as well. The unplayed Bridge Troll can also be a potential dead card for the next turn.

As I said, I would be really interested in how people better than me would approach this.

*By the way, how can you post images of kingdoms now we don't have Goko Salvager any more?
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dedicateddan

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 05:29:31 pm »
+6

Uncontested ~7-8 Bridge Trolls is winning, so...

Open Ferry/Sentry for thinning

Then pick up a few Hermits and Ferry on Bridge Troll

You'll want to set up back to back turns of 1-2 Madmen followed by 3-4 Bridge Trolls

I would probably pull the trigger with 3-4 Madmen and 3-4 Bridge Trolls in the deck, then buy 3-4 additional Bridge Trolls on the next turn

Peddler/Advisor are good too - pick those up when you can

If Bridge Trolls are contested, it's going to come down to dancing around piles
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xyz123

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 03:43:21 pm »
+1

Thanks for the comments Dan.

Interesting that you agree with my initial intuition about the Madman/Bridge Troll mega turn, which I ended up talking myself out of. When considering how it might work I completely missed that Hermit could gain Ferried Bridge Trolls. I can see how this could be quick enough to work even though some Bridge Trolls will be dead cards until you fire off the mega turn.

I notice that you haven't mentioned anything about trying to score Labyrinth points. Is it a red herring and not worth going out of your way for on this board?

You said you would open Ferry/Sentry. I take it a 5/2 would be Sentry/Raze as this would thin even faster.

If anyone else has any different ideas I would be really interested in hearing them.
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DG

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 04:08:59 pm »
+2

I think you have to compete on the bridge trolls and there will probably be some early pile out. You need to have a plan B that involves springing the madman turn before your opponent, taking a strong position, and threatening to pile out on the following turn with the trolls still in play.

The labyrinth points will be very useful in an early three pile finish where you are looking to finish with even the slenderest of leads. You certainly want them but you can't mess up your deck just to get those 2 points.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 04:16:01 pm by DG »
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dedicateddan

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 04:41:35 pm »
+1

I notice that you haven't mentioned anything about trying to score Labyrinth points. Is it a red herring and not worth going out of your way for on this board?

I wouldn't go too far out of the way to get Labyrinth points, although with Bridge Troll and Hermit in the deck, some will come naturally
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xyz123

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 01:42:36 pm »
0

Thanks again for the replies. :)
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 02:16:14 pm »
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One thing no one has talked about: in a mirror, do you ever try accomplishing something meaningful with Rogue? Stealing a Bridge Troll sound good but unlikely; stealing either Advisor or Hermit sounds OK and reasonably likely, but not like a huge swing, and terminal space is really precious here. I think no, but it's a plan that should be dismissed after thinking about it rather than before.

*By the way, how can you post images of kingdoms now we don't have Goko Salvager any more?
Get the f.ds Chrome extension, then put a comma-separated list of card names between 'kingdom' tags, like this:
Code: [Select]
<kingdom>Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker</kingdom>
(Use square rather than angle brackets, i.e. '[' and ']' instead of '<' and '>')

You said you would open Ferry/Sentry. I take it a 5/2 would be Sentry/Raze as this would thin even faster.
I agree with this. Sentry is good when the ratio of bad cards to good cards is the highest, i.e. early. Getting it on your first shuffle is good; Ferry'ing it is just a means to that end. Relying on a single Sentry for all your trashing is a bit dicey, but there's other trashing on this board, so I think getting just a single Sentry is fine. In that case, definitely just pick it up without Ferry'ing anything; and Raze is a fine second opener for $2.

Trashing Copper with Raze is not the best thing ever, but it's probably better than not doing in when you have NxCopper, 1xRaze. Eventually it can trash itself; you even get a benefit if you do it before pulling the trigger and playing Bridge Trolls :)

[go for Labyrinth points?]
My gut sense is that when there's a big stack of concentrated VP (7-8xBridge Troll piledriving Province) and there's a small trickle on the side, you ignore the small trickle and focus all your decisions on getting as much of the big payoff as soon as possible. (At least as long as the big payoff is something you can realistically get if you build towards it.)

Like Dan said, you're likely to get some of the Labyrinth points simply by buildings towards the megaturn; if your opponent mirrors, so are they. So if you try to go out of your way to fight over the Labyrinth split, you might swing one or two 2VP tokens, I guess.

Let's say you win the Labyrinth split 8-4 but in exchange your opponent wins the Bridge Troll split 6-4. That means they can Hermit-gain Province but you can't, and they can buy them more easily. They also have better pile control. I think I would rather be in their position.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 02:18:20 pm by jonaskoelker »
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Chris is me

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Re: Would like to hear thoughts on this board
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 03:09:31 pm »
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You donít really even need to try that hard with Madman to make the megaturn(s) work. Planning around 6 Bridges, you need Necro and 1 Madman each turn to have the terminal space, so 2 Madmen is enough to fire. A third for insurance wouldnít kill either.

I think you open Ferry / Sentry since that first shuffle trash is so essential, then grab a Hermit and start working the Bridge Trolls. Ferry Bridge Troll once you have a Hermit, and the rest you judge situationally. Youíll want a Silver or two, probably, though you can wait *awhile* to get those. Some Advisors here and there seem okay, but be careful whenever you choose to skip Bridge Troll for it. Donít lose that split! Also obviously 1-2 more Hermits so you can get that precious Madman.

Thereís not really much risk of choking on Green here, when youíre probably only greening on the last turn of the game.
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