Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Event: Liberate  (Read 419 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chipperMDW

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Respect: +254
    • View Profile
Event: Liberate
« on: October 02, 2017, 02:48:52 am »
0

Quote
Liberate (Event) $16

Once per game: At the start of your next turn, return the removed Kingdom card pile to the Supply.
--
Setup: Remove a random Kingdom card pile from the Supply. (Players cannot buy or gain cards from piles not in the Supply.)

Just a thought I had.  Probably somebody has a better version of this out there already.

The idea is that there's one kingdom card pile that can't be accessed at the beginning of the game.  Anyone can pay a large amount to unlock access to it later on.  Whoever pays to unlock it gets first dibs on it on their next turn, but they're also paying to unlock the pile for their opponents. Maybe sometimes it's worth it, and maybe sometimes it means you just work with a smaller kingdom.

I'm not sure what the price should be. I had it at $20 for a while. I knocked it down to double the price of a Province so it'd be relevant in more games and become available a bit earlier.

(Rules things: While removed, the pile is not "empty" for the purposes of ending the game; it's just not there at all.  After it's returned to the supply, it can of course become emptied and thus contribute to ending the game.  You choose and remove the pile after deciding all the piles that are present in the game.  You can remove any kingdom card pile, including the Bane pile.)
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1662
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1811
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 03:03:42 am »
+4

Sounds like a cool idea, but $16 is soooo steep for something that might not actually help you more than your opponents. I think it'll almost never be bought at $8 or more. If I have $16, I already have everything I need to be buying 2 Provinces per turn (if I don't have extra buys, I'm not getting up to $16/turn). Obviously there'll be the occasional game where the set aside card is the only +buy where it might be worth it, but it will be very occasional.

One idea would be to design an actual kingdom card around this idea. Make the top card in the pile cost more than the others, and design the card such that it will work better in some decks than others.
Logged

kru5h

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 170
  • Respect: +82
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 04:31:37 am »
+1

Quote
Liberate Event,
Remove your token from the jailed Supply pile and gain one card from it.
---
Setup: Choose a random Action Supply pile costing or more. Each player puts their jailed token on that Supply pile and cannot buy cards from that pile while their token is on it.

I think $16 is way too high. $8 is more reasonable. And the card should cost $5 or more so that it's usually worth it to unlock.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 04:45:03 am by kru5h »
Logged

Asper

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3926
  • Respect: +4184
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 08:20:31 am »
+2

At the very least, you should get a copy of the card for free and it should cost 5$. Also, I think even 8$ is too much. What advantage do you get for unlocking that pile? It doesn't seem strategically right to buy this, ever. You're paying money just to go first here, for a card that might not offer first player advantage and at a time where first player advantage already has played out.

Suggestion: Free the pile in response to something that is going to happen sooner or later either way. Like:

Quote
When the first Province is gained, add the chosen pile to the supply.

The bad thing is that this means you can't express it as an Event. Alternatives:

Quote
Event, 8$
Gain a Province. At the start of your next turn, add the chosen pile to the kingdom.

Might be my favourite.
Or:

Quote
Event, 8$
If the chosen pile is not in the kingdom already, +4VP and add the chosen pile to the kingdom.

Abel_K

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 11:35:36 am »
+1

Of course 8 at max, and what about : 1. gain one card of this Action 2. put our "+1 Action" or other on the pile ?
Logged

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3181
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2354
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 12:05:41 pm »
+2

If you like not being able to get it until you have a lot of economy, you could also have it cost $16 but also give +$8.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2210
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +2502
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 12:57:16 pm »
+1

Make it cost Debt and gain a card on-buy, and it gets a lot more interesting. Not sure it works, but interesting
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

chipperMDW

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Respect: +254
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 01:54:56 pm »
0

Clearly, I overestimated what it should cost.

Obviously there'll be the occasional game where the set aside card is the only +buy where it might be worth it, but it will be very occasional.
That was actually the scenario I was thinking of when I picked a price.  "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if this were your only +buy?"  I guess I shouldn't base the price on something that's rarely going to happen, though.

At the very least, you should get a copy of the card for free and it should cost 5$.
I really like the idea of the unlocking player gaining a card from the pile.  Maybe even gain it to your hand at the start of your next turn, just after the pile is added?

Suggestion: Free the pile in response to something that is going to happen sooner or later either way. Like:

Quote
When the first Province is gained, add the chosen pile to the supply.

The bad thing is that this means you can't express it as an Event.
I thought of something like that, but yeah, it wouldn't be an event.  It wouldn't really be a landmark, either, and I wanted to use an official kind of card-like thing.

I guess I could make it a landmark, though, if I attached VP to it somehow.  Maybe the first player to gain a Province gets +N VP (tokens) and unlocks the pile.  I could also make cards from that pile worth points, but that would be stepping on Obelisk's toes; it would also want to be a non-Victory Kingdom card pile [costing at least $5], and that's getting to be too complicated a descriptor.

Quote
Event, 8$
Gain a Province. At the start of your next turn, add the chosen pile to the kingdom.

Might be my favourite.
I like that idea, but I feel like it should cost something to get the unlock effect. Even if it's just a coin or two. I also like the idea of gaining a card from the pile better than gaining a Province. Maybe it could be a choice between the two options.


I'm leaning toward:
Quote
Liberate (Event) $8

Once per game: At the start of your next turn, return the removed Kingdom card pile to the Supply. If you did, gain a card from that pile to your hand.
--
Setup: Remove a random Kingdom card pile costing at least $5 from the Supply. (Players cannot buy or gain cards from piles not in the Supply.)

I'm using "Kingdom Supply pile" instead of "Action Supply pile" because I don't want Ruins getting removed. And I figure it's neat if sometimes there's some alt-VP you can unlock... although the $5 price point cuts off a lot of those.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6359
  • Respect: +6911
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2017, 05:05:26 pm »
+1

Gaining it to your hand doesn't help much; it will usually be an action that you can't play now anyway.

I don't see how gaining 1 of them is nearly enough. If you do get to gain 1 with the event, then buying the event is basically the exact same thing as buying the card would be normally. The "advantage" of having it available from now on means nothing at all; your opponent can buy them just as well.

Maybe you need to gain 3 of them for free or so.

Also, if you do that, you can simplify the wording a bunch by just returning it to the supply immediately. No need to prevent your opponent from buying it on this next turn. Plus, you could do interesting combos with having multiple buys and enough money to buy the event and the card at once.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 05:07:07 pm by GendoIkari »
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

chipperMDW

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Respect: +254
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2017, 05:20:44 pm »
0

Gaining it to your hand doesn't help much; it will usually be an action that you can't play now anyway.
I see that the wording is a bit ambiguous; the idea was to gain the card at the start of your next turn, just after the pile had been returned, not to gain it immediately during the buy phase.

I should probably use another colon and not put the last clause in its own sentence: "Once per game: At the start of your next turn: Return the removed pile to the Supply and, if you did, gain a card from that pile to your hand."
Logged

Asper

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3926
  • Respect: +4184
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2017, 07:27:22 pm »
+1

Quote
Event, 8$
Gain a Province. At the start of your next turn, add the chosen pile to the kingdom.

Might be my favourite.
I like that idea, but I feel like it should cost something to get the unlock effect. Even if it's just a coin or two. I also like the idea of gaining a card from the pile better than gaining a Province. Maybe it could be a choice between the two options.

The idea here is not that you free the pile and are rewarded with a Province. The idea is that when you buy a Province, you're allowed to free the pile.

chipperMDW

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Respect: +254
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2017, 11:47:27 pm »
0

Quote
Event, 8$
Gain a Province. At the start of your next turn, add the chosen pile to the kingdom.

Might be my favourite.
I like that idea, but I feel like it should cost something to get the unlock effect. Even if it's just a coin or two. I also like the idea of gaining a card from the pile better than gaining a Province. Maybe it could be a choice between the two options.

The idea here is not that you free the pile and are rewarded with a Province. The idea is that when you buy a Province, you're allowed to free the pile.
Yeah, I understood that was the idea.  I just liked the idea of gaining a card from the pile better.  But I guess I'm coming around to the idea that nobody would want to pay just to unlock the pile even if they got to gain stuff from it first or for free; it would work better if the event had some benefit that made you want to buy it anyway, then have the pile unlocked as a side effect of doing that.

I feel like "first Province" is a bit early to have it unlock, though. What if the removed pile started with VP tokens on it, and players could buy the event to get the VP?  After all the VP is taken, the pile is unlocked.  If the VP reward was good enough, players would want to buy the event anyway and the pile would eventually be unlocked.

Maybe:
Quote
Liberate (Event) $4

Take 3 VP from the removed pile.  If there are no VP on the removed pile, return it to the Supply.
--
Setup: Remove a random Kingdom card pile from the Supply and put 6 VP on it per player. (Players cannot buy or gain cards from piles not in the Supply.)

Players pay to get discounted "virtual Duchies" and, after they're gone, there's a new pile available. The event is generally better than a Province when you have an extra buy.

Or maybe it should have 3 sets of 2 VP per player (like a lot of Landmarks) and cost something like $2. Maybe with +1 Buy to encourage players to buy the event on turns where they end up with small amounts of leftover cash. Or maybe that's too close to Basilica.

EDIT:
It should be an non-Gathering pile if it's getting VP put on it.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 11:50:13 pm by chipperMDW »
Logged

Asper

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3926
  • Respect: +4184
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 08:48:05 am »
+1

Don't worry about gathering piles, just put the VP on the Event itself.

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
  • Respect: +27
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 02:59:25 pm »
+3

At the risk of being a slowpoke, I'd suggest that this not remove a random pile, but rather add an 11th pile.
Logged

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1186
  • Respect: +1310
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 06:18:55 pm »
+1

At the risk of being a slowpoke, I'd suggest that this not remove a random pile, but rather add an 11th pile.
There's an Event convolucid designed called "Crop Rotation" that does something like that - pick an extra pile, and when you buy the Event, you swap that pile with one of the piles currently in play. I also had an Event idea that would remove a pile from the supply until your next turn, which both prevents opponents from accessing it and does fun things with end-game triggers. I think all these variations are interesting options.
Logged

Fragasnap

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Gregory Learned
  • Respect: +327
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2017, 07:13:05 pm »
+2

I have no idea if it works, but I had a similar event idea in my backlog.

Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $2
Discard a Victory card costing at least $4. If you do, remove this from the Supply and look at 4 random Kingdom cards not in the Supply. Add one's Supply pile to the Kingdom and gain up to 2 cards from it.
It's probably too swingy since you don't know what the cards will be until you buy it. A mandatory Victory discard acts as more of a gating mechanism than the cost, so it can be picked up on the side as well as being unlocked later. With both of those facts, players will hopefully treat the Discovered card as a bonus rather than the crux of their strategy.
Logged

chipperMDW

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Respect: +254
    • View Profile
Re: Event: Liberate
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2017, 08:47:52 pm »
0

Don't worry about gathering piles, just put the VP on the Event itself.
Ok, good. That's actually how I did it at first, but I figured that might be "frowned upon" since none of the official Events have tokens on them.

At the risk of being a slowpoke, I'd suggest that this not remove a random pile, but rather add an 11th pile.
I went back and forth on adding a new pile or locking one of the originals. I ended up going with the fewer piles option mostly just because Obelisk was more recent than Young Witch, so that seemed to be the trend for "one pile is special." But yeah, an extra pile is certainly an option.

There's an Event convolucid designed called "Crop Rotation" that does something like that
I have no idea if it works, but I had a similar event idea in my backlog.
Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $2
Discard a Victory card costing at least $4. If you do, remove this from the Supply and look at 4 random Kingdom cards not in the Supply. Add one's Supply pile to the Kingdom and gain up to 2 cards from it.
These are neat.  I figured there were better implementations of the basic idea out there. From the comments in that thread, it looks like LastFootnote also had some version of this concept back before events were a thing.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.085 seconds with 21 queries.