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Author Topic: One-Shots  (Read 12531 times)

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Davio

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One-Shots
« on: February 16, 2012, 08:53:08 am »
+1

I find one-shots mighty interesting cards. There are different types in Dominion and I wonder if we will see more of them in future expansions. What is a one-shot? By my definition it's a card that trashes itself when played or gives an added bonus when it trashes itself. Of course nothing gets really trashed when you are Possessed, but that's another story. Let's talk about the one-shots a bit and at the end... speculate.

Feast - The first one-shot we've all come across. It's plain and simple. You buy a $4-card now and when you play it, you get a $5 one. It's for those $5's you absolutely can't live without or have to get asap. Of course it's really fun to King's Court a Feast so you can get three $5 cards (Duchies for instance).

Mining Village - Intrigue gave us Mining Village, an intriguing card for sure. A lot of players wonder when they have to trash it for $2. Even if you KC it, you can only trash it once for those $2, because of the condition on the card. I usually trash these only when I need to grab a key part of my engine or late in the game when I can convert them to VPs. MVs are also often used in the beginning as one-shots to a power $5 or $6 card, much like Moneylender or Baron let you do.

Embargo - One of the most difficult cards to use strategically. They're probably the most fun when your opponent has opened Potion. Embargo games are very weird generally. Ever played a game with 3 tokens on the Province pile? The Embargo does stack with KC so you can place 3 tokens on a pile. With Possession, you can even put an unlimited number of tokens on a pile, but you won't need more than 50 or so (6 player game).

Treasure Map - Half of a Treasure Map, actually. We all love to hate it. Our opponents always get it together on turn 5 without help and all the Warehouses in the world can't find our copies. Still, it's a funky card and the only card that you can trash for absolutely no bonus (other than activating a Conspirator or something). Any of you ever tried to play it to put it back with Scheme? It doesn't work. :)

Island - Stretching the definition: While Island doesn't trash itself, it does remove itself from your deck and this can be quite handy. It's sometimes good to Island away one Estate in the beginning. If all else fails, you can always Island away a Copper or even a Curse.

Fool's Gold - It stretches the definition a bit too, but I'd still like to include it. Alchemy, Prosperity and Cornucopia offer us no one-shots so we have to make do with what we've got. I'm horrible with FG, but it's one-shot bonus seems pretty clear to me. There's always a big downside to its reaction: Your opponent just bought a Province.

So with 7 boxes we've got 5 one-shots. If we were to see more of them in the future, what would they be like? What would you want them to be like? Do you have any good ideas for a one-shot? Let us know!

Edit: Modified TM, added Island
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 09:10:52 am by Davio »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 08:56:37 am »
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Trashing a treasure map doe not make peddlers cheaper. It can help activate conspirator though.

brokoli

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 08:58:49 am »
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Island ?
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DG

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 09:49:48 am »
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I think Donald once said he had a lot of 'one shot' cards but players didn't like them as they didn't like buying cards they were inevitably going to lose. Feast, fool's gold, and treasure maps give you extra cards when you trash them and you don't lose cards when you play an island, you just secure them out of sight. I'm guessing Donald still has a few other one shots that have been tinkered with and might be released.
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Davio

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 10:05:04 am »
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I'm hoping to see more of them, because they often add some wackyness to the game.

Can't think of any good ones right now, though.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 10:10:35 am »
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I think Donald once said he had a lot of 'one shot' cards but players didn't like them as they didn't like buying cards they were inevitably going to lose. Feast, fool's gold, and treasure maps give you extra cards when you trash them and you don't lose cards when you play an island, you just secure them out of sight. I'm guessing Donald still has a few other one shots that have been tinkered with and might be released.

The first expansion (what became intrigue) had a one-shot theme, which was eventually take out, according to the secret history.

Davio

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 10:30:03 am »
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Well, as a theme I don't think it works that well, but every expansion should have a few, just to shake things up. :)
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timchen

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 11:14:33 am »
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Actually the on-gain or on-buy effect is very similar to one-shot.

Also, it seems to be the right formula for one-shot effect: a major part of the reason for the dislike of the on gain cards is that you need to shuffle it back in hand, then play it, to get the benefit. For cards that stays it seems okay since you will do this many times; for a one-shot this sounds rather lousy. Getting rid of the shuffle back you just get the on gain/on buy cards.

Seriously, for the on gain/buy effect cards, some of its functionality when played seems secondary.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 11:19:15 am by timchen »
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tlloyd

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 12:00:55 pm »
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It seems to me that there is room for a trashing card that trashes itself. I know Island somewhat fills this role, but quite weakly. I'm imagining a weaker chapel (trash 3 cards? maybe just 2?) that also can be used as a one-shot remodel. So you use it to trash your early cards, then it gets out of the way once trashing is no longer needed. Probably $4?
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ecq

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 12:12:23 pm »
0

It might be neat to have a card with an effect that's a little too powerful for its price but whose text reads something like:

Awesome Card
<Do something awesome>
Trash this card.  Gain an Awesome Card.

It's not quite one-shot, but it has a limited number of uses per game and it runs down a pile, which may or may not be desirable.  As far as which effect, maybe the same effects as Grand Market (possibly without the + buy) but priced at $4.  It'd be an awesome early deck accelerator, but you couldn't build an engine around it because it'd eventually go away for good.
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greatexpectations

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 12:16:46 pm »
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It's not quite one-shot, but it has a limited number of uses per game and it runs down a pile, which may or may not be desirable.  As far as which effect, maybe the same effects as Grand Market (possibly without the + buy) but priced at $4.  It'd be an awesome early deck accelerator, but you couldn't build an engine around it because it'd eventually go away for good.

sounds an awful lot like mining village.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 12:17:53 pm »
0

It might be neat to have a card with an effect that's a little too powerful for its price but whose text reads something like:

Awesome Card
<Do something awesome>
Trash this card.  Gain an Awesome Card.

It's not quite one-shot, but it has a limited number of uses per game and it runs down a pile, which may or may not be desirable.  As far as which effect, maybe the same effects as Grand Market (possibly without the + buy) but priced at $4.  It'd be an awesome early deck accelerator, but you couldn't build an engine around it because it'd eventually go away for good.
Eh, the issue here is that you don't actually get more than 10 plays of GM in most games anyway. You could cost it at $6 without the copper restriction and have this, maybe with the buy, maybe without.

WanderingWinder

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 12:18:15 pm »
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It's not quite one-shot, but it has a limited number of uses per game and it runs down a pile, which may or may not be desirable.  As far as which effect, maybe the same effects as Grand Market (possibly without the + buy) but priced at $4.  It'd be an awesome early deck accelerator, but you couldn't build an engine around it because it'd eventually go away for good.

sounds an awful lot like mining village.
Except that trashing the mining village doesn't give you a new mining village.

LastFootnote

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 12:40:47 pm »
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It seems to me that there is room for a trashing card that trashes itself. I know Island somewhat fills this role, but quite weakly. I'm imagining a weaker chapel (trash 3 cards? maybe just 2?) that also can be used as a one-shot remodel. So you use it to trash your early cards, then it gets out of the way once trashing is no longer needed. Probably $4?

I actually came up with a couple of cards like this for the small one-shot themed expansion I created. Here are the latest versions of them:

Missionary
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: 2
+1 Coin. Reveal the top two cards of your deck. Discard one of them and put the other one into your hand.
----------------------------------------------------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, trash down to 3 cards in your hand.

Tinker
Types: Action
Cost: 4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal the top card of your deck and trash it.  You may trash this card. If you do, gain a card other than a Tinker that costs up to 2 Coins more than the revealed card, putting it on top of your deck.

Missionary can only trash as a Reaction, but once you think you're done with it, it can be used to trash itself.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 12:44:33 pm by LastFootnote »
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greatexpectations

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2012, 12:44:06 pm »
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Except that trashing the mining village doesn't give you a new mining village.

i understand the differences, thanks, and that is why i didn't say "we already have that card, it's called mining village".
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WanderingWinder

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 01:19:54 pm »
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Except that trashing the mining village doesn't give you a new mining village.

i understand the differences, thanks, and that is why i didn't say "we already have that card, it's called mining village".
But that makes it a totally dissimilar card. New trashy-GM blows MV out of the water.

greatexpectations

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 01:29:07 pm »
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But that makes it a totally dissimilar card. New trashy-GM blows MV out of the water.

a totally dissimilar card?  it functionally is a mining village, with the two differences being that you must trash it and that you gain another copy after you play it.

seriously, you are trying way too hard to nitpick here.  my original comment was that it sounds "awful similar to mining village". i don't see anything offensive or inaccurate there.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 01:32:03 pm »
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But that makes it a totally dissimilar card. New trashy-GM blows MV out of the water.

a totally dissimilar card?  it functionally is a mining village, with the two differences being that you must trash it and that you gain another copy after you play it.

seriously, you are trying way too hard to nitpick here.  my original comment was that it sounds "awful similar to mining village". i don't see anything offensive or inaccurate there.
I don't see anything offensive. I do see something inaccurate. Ignoring for a sec that MV gives an extra action, being forced to trash it and gaining another copy make the card *play* totally differently. Which is what I think is important.

greatexpectations

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 01:45:59 pm »
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I don't see anything offensive. I do see something inaccurate. Ignoring for a sec that MV gives an extra action, being forced to trash it and gaining another copy make the card *play* totally differently. Which is what I think is important.

similarities between mining village and the proposed one shot card -
- costs $4
- +1 card, +1 action
- MV can be trashed for +$2

differences between mining village and the proposed one shot card -
- card must be trashed
- you gain another copy after you play it
- the extra action on MV

i think that makes the cards similar.  would you not consider stables and laboratory similar?  village and worker's village?  market and peddler?  yes the cards will play different. obviously. but in the scope of all dominion cards, they are all similar pairs. seriously, you continue to nitpick my posts, and i just don't see the point of it. i think we've hijacked this thread enough, let it be.
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BaruMonkey

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 02:12:58 pm »
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Tunnel?
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O

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 04:11:39 pm »
+2

Mining Village MVs are also often used in the beginning as one-shots to a power $5 or $6 card, much like Moneylender or Baron let you do.

Moneylender does not help you get to 5$ or 6$ any more than silver does. It's a terminal +2$ variant, with the variant being trash a copper for no money loss this turn.
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Loschmidt

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 05:19:59 pm »
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Actually the on-gain or on-buy effect is very similar to one-shot.

This. So we actually have quite a lot of interesting one-shot effects in Hinterlands. One of the reasons that Hinterlands is my favourite expansion.

I get the difference to your definition, but the effects mentioned below are all definitely one-shot. A second class of one-shots if you will.

So I think you should add to your list:

Border Village - One shot $5 Gainer
Mandarin - One shot treasure top decker
Ill Gotten Gains - One shot curser
Farmland - One shot Remodel(ish)
Embassy - One shot opponent assistance :P
Inn - One shot ... putting all your actions back into your deck
Arguably Nomad Camp? - One shot Woodcutter top-decker
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 06:12:39 pm by Loschmidt »
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jimjam

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2012, 05:27:07 pm »
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How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.
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Loschmidt

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2012, 05:40:45 pm »
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How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?
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O

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Re: One-Shots
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2012, 05:42:17 pm »
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How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?

6$ for +3VP or +4VP.. 5 for 3VP is too close to strictly better than duchy.
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