Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 87  All

Author Topic: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Game over!)  (Read 160743 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: November 14, 2017, 07:32:18 am »

The mechanics from that game included giving items to other players, yes?  (I think that was the Sell this to the bankĒ thing.)
Items could be passed around, yes.

Sell to the bank was something else.  Scum had purchasing power at the beginning of the game, to get things.  One ability they could purchase (for cheap, can't remember how much) was the ability to reroll their purchases once during the game, by selling back items they hadn't used.

Makes sense.  So I correctly remembered/assumed that the stick destroying thing was from passing of items.  It was of course faustís call to change how that works, but it is no oneís fault for not assuming that change would be made.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: November 14, 2017, 07:37:54 am »

Finally vote: PPS

Oh, look, yes, I did bid slot 3. I was draft order #2. I got what I bid on.

This is what one calls a scumslip.

So, I assume you mean...

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it, hence by saying he got what he bid on, heís admitting to receiving the stick, as opposed to getting a broken stick or pieces of a stick or some stick ashes, or whatever.

I mean, sure.

Seems like someone should ask the mod if the wording would have been different upon receipt of the item depending on the playerís alignment.  Thatís a set-up question, right?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Haddock

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
  • Shuffle iT Username: Haddock
  • Doc Cod
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: November 14, 2017, 07:46:32 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

This is like asking the mod to verify if a player is lying or not.  He canít answer.

If he can, faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?

Why would it verify if he was lying or not? That could indeed be the correct mechanic (item breaks if town bids and wins it), and he could still be lying scum. They're not mutually exclusive things.

This is a meta issue, because we now have precedent for having the mod confirm a playerís claim in-game.

We should absolutely ask the mod to confirm every single claim made by every single player from now on when it is setup-related.  Weíve effectively removed the ability for scum to lie.

If PPS is scum, he should have been able to lie about how the stick works.  He won it through the means built into the game, but then he lost the ability to use it when we had the mod confirm his claim about it.  Now, as town thatís great, but as a mafia player, itís disappointing and painful.

My question was obviously facetious, and it wasnít even framed right.  The answer is probably also facetious, although Iím not sure what it means specifically.  I know my alignment, and 100% is definitely not zero.  The mod confirmed that I am not 100% scum, since only 0% does that.

As for how it confirms PPS isnít lying...I donít understand your question.  PPS made a statement, faust confirmed said statement as true.  So, faust confirmed PPS did not lie.  Does that means PPS is town?  No.  Does that mean PPS was not lying?  Yes.

Itís what we do with Masons, right?  Mason #1 says ďI said XYZ in our shared QT.Ē  Mason #2 confirms that Mason #1 said that.  Given a Mason flip, we now know the other was telling the truth.  But in this case, faust is equivalent to an Innocent Child with full setup knowledge and no vote.  We know he will never lie and is 100% trustworthy.  So we know that faustís statement that PPS was telling the truth is the truth.

Ergo, we now know with 100% certainty that PPS was not lying.  Thatís how it verified that he wasnít lying, by verifying that he wasnít lying.
Meh.  I don't really agree with this.

We've removed the ability for scum to lie STUPIDLY.  Which they could never get away with doing anyway.

Like, if scum make a claim that directly contradicts the setup, that's a kind of a lie; it's called a scumslip.   
Had PPS been lying, essentially this would have just meant he'd made a dumb scumslip.  But he wasn't, so we're fine.  The mod has always been expected to clarify setup questions like this.

I would agree with you if your point were that this should have been clarified before there was any opportunity for anyone to accidentally tell a lie they could get caught in.  This is an issue of "the eternal quest of mods to make their setups 100% clear and unambiguous" - nothing more.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: November 14, 2017, 07:48:41 am »

So the Amulet and Paper Money are the only other items that have alignments involved, yes?

Seems like Amulet holder could claim and never die ó or die as scum, so either way claiming it makes tons of sense since we can exploit that.

For Paper Money, a claim means nothing for town other than to say they are stuck as a VT, and if they are mafia, someone might be able to catch them in a lie based on powers.

Any other exploits folks can find?  Seems to be the preference here.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5113
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: November 14, 2017, 07:53:53 am »

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it
yes
Logged
⍟ Primrose Potter and the Goblet of Fire ⍟

they/them

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: November 14, 2017, 08:01:11 am »

Meh.  I don't really agree with this.

We've removed the ability for scum to lie STUPIDLY.  Which they could never get away with doing anyway.

Like, if scum make a claim that directly contradicts the setup, that's a kind of a lie; it's called a scumslip.   
Had PPS been lying, essentially this would have just meant he'd made a dumb scumslip.  But he wasn't, so we're fine.  The mod has always been expected to clarify setup questions like this.

I would agree with you if your point were that this should have been clarified before there was any opportunity for anyone to accidentally tell a lie they could get caught in.  This is an issue of "the eternal quest of mods to make their setups 100% clear and unambiguous" - nothing more.

My long and detailed response was just eaten by crappy 4G connections.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5113
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: November 14, 2017, 08:04:27 am »

can't you recover it by hitting back in your browser?
Logged
⍟ Primrose Potter and the Goblet of Fire ⍟

they/them

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: November 14, 2017, 08:11:04 am »

Meh.  I don't really agree with this.

We've removed the ability for scum to lie STUPIDLY.  Which they could never get away with doing anyway.

Like, if scum make a claim that directly contradicts the setup, that's a kind of a lie; it's called a scumslip.   
Had PPS been lying, essentially this would have just meant he'd made a dumb scumslip.  But he wasn't, so we're fine.  The mod has always been expected to clarify setup questions like this.

I would agree with you if your point were that this should have been clarified before there was any opportunity for anyone to accidentally tell a lie they could get caught in.  This is an issue of "the eternal quest of mods to make their setups 100% clear and unambiguous" - nothing more.

My long and detailed response was just eaten by crappy 4G connections.

From what I remember of what I wrote...

1.  You concede that my point that faust has confirmed for us that PPS didnít lie stands?

2.  The essential problem here is that, to me, the question broke the ďYou may only ask and receive answers to questions about your own roleĒ rule.  Once the items were assigned to players, they became part of their QTs and Roles, and no longer a ďsetupĒ issue.

If a player claims Transmogrifier from RMM 104, then says his role allows him to change one personís power into another power, I canít ask faust to confirm thatís how Transmogrifier works.  Or in a more normal example, if mail-mi claims to block sudgy and thatís why Robz didnít die last night, we canít ask faust confirm any of that.

The use of the stick, to me, is the same thing.  While the question wasnít phrased as ďIf PPS is town and got the stick, would it have been immediately destroyed?Ē, we canít help but think of it that way, because thatís what happened.  It also must be thought of as being asked as ďCan you please confirm that what PPS said is the truth?Ē  We canít unsee those words.

3.  This didnít remove scumís ďstupid liesĒ power.  It removed all of their power to lie about setup things.  If we (and they) know that any and all setup lies will be verified as lies by the mod as soon as they tell them, they canít tell them.  That helps us as town, but it makes the game unfair to scum.  I just won a scum game by lying about the setup and mechanics for days.  At no point did anyone in the game just go ďHey mod, are asherskyís claims about how the game works really how the game works?Ē  If they had, game over for scum.  And that would be the case every single game.

I am not saying people canít ask the questions.  Iím saying mods shouldnít answer them.  Can you think of a game where someone claimed something in game, then you asked the mod about how that playerís role works, and they answered?

4.  I agree with you that if this clarification had been provided before the game started, itíd be all good.  And sometimes we catch things late, and we fix them when we can.  No one is perfect, not even faust (maybe).  But I think in this case, just leaving it unanswered was better, given the effect this renders on the game.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: November 14, 2017, 08:11:35 am »

can't you recover it by hitting back in your browser?

When I did, it showed me the originally quoted Post, not my written stuff.  Boo.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: November 14, 2017, 08:12:01 am »

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it
yes

I can definitely see that possibility.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: November 14, 2017, 08:15:24 am »

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it
yes

I can definitely see that possibility.

This is exactly why iím voting him
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: November 14, 2017, 09:06:40 am »

Discussions on whether or not something is ambiguous belong in RSP~
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: November 14, 2017, 09:10:20 am »

Finally vote: PPS

Oh, look, yes, I did bid slot 3. I was draft order #2. I got what I bid on.

This is what one calls a scumslip.

So, I assume you mean...

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it, hence by saying he got what he bid on, heís admitting to receiving the stick, as opposed to getting a broken stick or pieces of a stick or some stick ashes, or whatever.

I mean, sure.

Seems like someone should ask the mod if the wording would have been different upon receipt of the item depending on the playerís alignment.  Thatís a set-up question, right?

It is suspicious that he wasn't informed upon receipt that his item was "destroyed", but rather had to ask.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: November 14, 2017, 09:13:43 am »

So, do we think scum is more likely to have lower numerical values in the draft?

They know more games that are in the setup than we do, so they have a greater chance that one they select is not.
Logged

Haddock

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 725
  • Shuffle iT Username: Haddock
  • Doc Cod
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: November 14, 2017, 09:21:44 am »

Finally vote: PPS

Oh, look, yes, I did bid slot 3. I was draft order #2. I got what I bid on.

This is what one calls a scumslip.

So, I assume you mean...

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it, hence by saying he got what he bid on, heís admitting to receiving the stick, as opposed to getting a broken stick or pieces of a stick or some stick ashes, or whatever.

I mean, sure.

Seems like someone should ask the mod if the wording would have been different upon receipt of the item depending on the playerís alignment.  Thatís a set-up question, right?

It is suspicious that he wasn't informed upon receipt that his item was "destroyed", but rather had to ask.
Is he that dumb though?  See my earlier argument.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: November 14, 2017, 09:24:00 am »

So, do we think scum is more likely to have lower numerical values in the draft?

They know more games that are in the setup than we do, so they have a greater chance that one they select is not.

Maybe, but I wouldn't build a read from that. I probably wouldn't even consider it to be a part of a case against a person.

Although, I take that back. Scum is likely to have bid on unique games, so a group of 3 bidding on the same game seems more likely to include town

That being said, this is the third "bidding" game we have done in very close succession, scum may try to mix it up

So, WIFOM
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: November 14, 2017, 09:29:41 am »

Finally vote: PPS

Oh, look, yes, I did bid slot 3. I was draft order #2. I got what I bid on.

This is what one calls a scumslip.

So, I assume you mean...

PPS is scum, got #2, decided to go for the Vig to help his team.  He received the stick, as hoped for, and will use it at some point.  When the claiming for the stick came up, he truthfully claimed it, not realizing that his receiving of the item would differ from the way town would have received it, hence by saying he got what he bid on, heís admitting to receiving the stick, as opposed to getting a broken stick or pieces of a stick or some stick ashes, or whatever.

I mean, sure.

Seems like someone should ask the mod if the wording would have been different upon receipt of the item depending on the playerís alignment.  Thatís a set-up question, right?

It is suspicious that he wasn't informed upon receipt that his item was "destroyed", but rather had to ask.
Is he that dumb though?  See my earlier argument.

Sometimes you just make mistakes. 
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5113
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: November 14, 2017, 10:00:15 am »

PPS seems almost deliberately uninvested in setup theory. I'm willing to believe he screwed that up.
Logged
⍟ Primrose Potter and the Goblet of Fire ⍟

they/them

iguanaiguana

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 600
  • Shuffle iT Username: iguana iguana
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: November 14, 2017, 10:13:11 am »

Logged
Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: November 14, 2017, 10:58:26 am »

If we lynch anyone for misreading the setup I think it should be Awaclus with his Miller thing
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: November 14, 2017, 11:01:48 am »

Scum!vig we can deal with. A town thief could potentially steal pps's item. Roleblocking, doctoring, etc...we can deal with a vig. Especially a 1 shot vig.

Miller is completely different.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11658
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (ī。ē ω ē。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: November 14, 2017, 11:09:30 am »

Scum!vig we can deal with. A town thief could potentially steal pps's item. Roleblocking, doctoring, etc...we can deal with a vig. Especially a 1 shot vig.

Miller is completely different.

Miller is completely different in that we don't have to do anything at all to deal with it.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's CC-licensed albums for free

Galzria

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 956
  • Since 2012
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: November 14, 2017, 11:12:13 am »

Scum!vig we can deal with. A town thief could potentially steal pps's item. Roleblocking, doctoring, etc...we can deal with a vig. Especially a 1 shot vig.

Miller is completely different.

Miller is completely different in that we don't have to do anything at all to deal with it.

Incorrect.
Logged
Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: November 14, 2017, 11:34:00 am »

Let's not lynch Awaclus today.
Logged

iguanaiguana

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 600
  • Shuffle iT Username: iguana iguana
    • View Profile
Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: November 14, 2017, 11:37:38 am »

I have been thinking carefully. Please read this.

On the mod info:

Faust gave information about a public-item knowledge that everyone could ask about during the bidding phase. Every person had the opportunity (as Chairs has claimed that he did) to ask Faust what would happen if they received the sword stick, or (if they are scum) what would happen if town received the sword stick. This doesn't tell us anything about what actually happened with PPS, since Faust didn't tell us anything about what PPS actually asked or what question he answered for him. It would be different if PPS had a private item that only he knew about - then we couldn't expect Faust to tell the thread about how it works.

Now, about pushing for a slot 3 bidders claim:

Slot 3 is the scummy slot. It has a miller T-shirt as a penalty, which is no downside at all to a player who will already investigate as mafia-aligned. In fact scum wants to make sure that gets into the game, since it makes the cop's investigation worse. It also has an item that only scum can use. I thought it was obvious that it would be immediately destroyed if town bid on it. The flavor of the item says "Are you sure you are shady enough to acquire an item like this?" I think scum wants that extra kill, and they have a strong incentive to use their highest bidder to make sure they acquire the item as well. The final item slot is the double-voter, which is not a very high utility item, and is the only one that town can do anything with. It makes a ton of sense for a mid-ranked IC to bid for slot 3 - but it doesn't make a ton of sense for a town who understood how the slot worked to bid for it, except to try to deny the one-shot vig from scum.

Take a moment to look at all the slots again, and ask yourself which ones a generic 3 person mafia team would want. The self-motivator items are OK, but probably strictly worse than a guaranteed extra kill shot. Universal 1-shot is OK, depending on their powers. Actually,

Mod Question: Would the "Funding" item work on factional abilities?

The other items are all lower utility than a 1-shot vig, or completely useless for mafia, or come with awkward drawbacks (IE: The One Ring).

So my reason for pushing for a full claim of slot 3 is the same as why Teproc said that the poisoner should claim in Lost Mafia. The idea there was that scum is more likely to have the poisoner role because they are more likely to get a high draft position through cooperation, and that poisoner is probably the first slot they would take because it is the highest utility for them. And if you look at both runs, mafia got the poisoner both times. And arguably the only reason town was able to win that broken setup is because they pushed the poisoner (me) to claim D1. I thought from the outset that the one shot vig item would be a similar story here on a smaller scale.

All of this is why I thought PPS more likely to be scum even before he claimed to have acquired the sword stick. The fact that he didn't realize it should be destroyed if he is town points even more to him being scum I think. Whether he was town or scum, we KNOW that he bid for the item from a high draft without reading the text that states that it would be destroyed if given to a towny. We also know that he didn't realize it was destroyed at the beginning of the day. To me, that means the most likely explanation is that he is scum, and that the item is NOT destroyed, and that he didn't even realize that it should be destroyed until I started interrogating him about it.

PPE: 1
Logged
Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 87  All
 

Page created in 0.096 seconds with 21 queries.