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Author Topic: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Game over!)  (Read 225864 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #200 on: November 13, 2017, 11:42:50 pm »

I don't believe items that players start with are "given" to them. I believe they simply start with them. That is, I do not think this item would be unusable by a town player who started the game with it. I don't believe 1-shot Vig is a scum only power. I think the framing of it thusly is scummy, and I think PPS is playing off that. --- Basically, I agree with Ash:

I actually think the stick description is a theory sentence.  I feel that the immediately broken part referred to if it was given by a player to a town player part — not assigned by the mod.

So then, I’d say PPS lied just now to cover for something he misunderstood after rereading.

I think Chairs is claiming that he asked, and they are in fact considered "given" at the beginning.

I'm claiming that I asked and confirmed I could not be a 1-shot vig via any item provided by this setup.

... I mean are you also claiming that you're Town?
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #201 on: November 13, 2017, 11:43:13 pm »

Vote: Haddock

Breaking your work computer is clearly a scummy thing to do ;-)

RVS now is bad.

Hey samepageclub.
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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #202 on: November 13, 2017, 11:44:31 pm »

If you guys need somewhere to vote you can go read DatSwan's opening post of the game and then vote for him.
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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #203 on: November 13, 2017, 11:58:48 pm »

Do we do an item massclaim?

Sure why not?

I drafted "LaLight's Birthday Hat".

Does that mean I am a year older and LL is a year younger? Like Highlander?

Its cool. I get you're lazy, Ill quote it for you. Just LITTERED with skum tells.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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chairs

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #204 on: November 14, 2017, 12:04:02 am »

I don't believe items that players start with are "given" to them. I believe they simply start with them. That is, I do not think this item would be unusable by a town player who started the game with it. I don't believe 1-shot Vig is a scum only power. I think the framing of it thusly is scummy, and I think PPS is playing off that. --- Basically, I agree with Ash:

I actually think the stick description is a theory sentence.  I feel that the immediately broken part referred to if it was given by a player to a town player part — not assigned by the mod.

So then, I’d say PPS lied just now to cover for something he misunderstood after rereading.

I think Chairs is claiming that he asked, and they are in fact considered "given" at the beginning.

I'm claiming that I asked and confirmed I could not be a 1-shot vig via any item provided by this setup.

... I mean are you also claiming that you're Town?

Yes, I suppose I am, but I thought that was kinda implied.

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #205 on: November 14, 2017, 12:05:46 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #206 on: November 14, 2017, 01:09:49 am »

So, we have options.

We could direct PPS to kill tonight.  Outcomes:

--scum kill(s) + PPS kill
--PPS kill only
--scum kill(s) only
--no kills at all

If PPS is scum, I think you see one of the first two.  If PPS is town, any of them could happen for any number of reasons.

Best case in the scum!PPS world is we get to decide his team's target or they have to sacrifice him by not letting him "verify" his claim.  Worst case is we just let him kill someone with his vig while team still gets a factional kill.

Are you paying attention? Sword stick is broken, it doesn't work anymore. That I prevented scum from getting it is a good thing. That I am town and thought I could use it is probably bad but whatever. You could easily confirm with faust yourself that if you received sword stick as town it would arrive broken. that you won't do this but would rather vote me as scum when I am already hated tells me that my vote is in the correct place.

I did, in fact, ask the mod about items not in my own possession and was not given a specific answer.  No reason to think that policy would have changed.
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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #207 on: November 14, 2017, 01:12:00 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

This is like asking the mod to verify if a player is lying or not.  He can’t answer.

If he can, faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?
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Galzria

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #208 on: November 14, 2017, 01:25:09 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

This is like asking the mod to verify if a player is lying or not.  He can’t answer.

If he can, faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?

Why would it verify if he was lying or not? That could indeed be the correct mechanic (item breaks if town bids and wins it), and he could still be lying scum. They're not mutually exclusive things.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

faust

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #209 on: November 14, 2017, 01:27:02 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

Yes.

faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?

There would a nonzero chance of that being the case.
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faust

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #210 on: November 14, 2017, 01:39:27 am »

I was planning on keeping out of the game for a bit because I got quite upset at the end of the last day. But, who am I kidding, I can't keep my mouth shut anyway.

So, let's clear up a few things first. One, I killed Walker!yuma. He was dead, because it is the nature of my role that I can only shoot dead players. I therefore do not think that the walkers are the mafia here. Two, you still should not vote for me.





Vote Count 1.2

iguanaiguana (2): LaLight, ashersky
pingpongsam (1): iguanaiguana
asherksy (1): pingpongsam
DatSwan (1): Witherweaver
silverspawn (1): gkrieg13
Haddock (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): schadd

Not Voting (9): Haddock, Awaclus, 2.71828....., DatSwan, JaketheBaseballGod22, Dylan32, silverspawn, chairs, Galzria

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends November 20 at 2 am forum time.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #211 on: November 14, 2017, 02:45:55 am »

why are we debating about setup information that is clearly written in the OP?

Once during the game, at night, you may target a player. If you do, that player will be killed (under usual killing rules). This item will be destroyed. You may sell this to the bank when using “Collapse of the Pound”, for £4. This is immediately destroyed if given to a town player.

Also vote: ashersky vote: DatSwan vote: PPS vote: faust vote: Awaclus vote: Eevee vote: Galzria vote: Haddock vote: NoLynch

silverspawn

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #212 on: November 14, 2017, 02:47:11 am »

and vote: Space for still using RVS votes. such negative utility

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #213 on: November 14, 2017, 02:47:19 am »

vote: pps

I don't believe he is town.
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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #214 on: November 14, 2017, 02:47:32 am »

and vote: Space for still using RVS votes. such negative utility

hey, what about me? :(
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #215 on: November 14, 2017, 02:49:55 am »

Finally vote: PPS

Oh, look, yes, I did bid slot 3. I was draft order #2. I got what I bid on.

This is what one calls a scumslip.

silverspawn

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #216 on: November 14, 2017, 02:52:12 am »

and vote: Space for still using RVS votes. such negative utility

hey, what about me? :(

C\-;]

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #217 on: November 14, 2017, 03:14:03 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

This is like asking the mod to verify if a player is lying or not.  He can’t answer.

If he can, faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?

The mod can’t clarify the game mechanics? All it is asking is to clarify on whether the item is considered to be “given” or not.

Also he answered.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #218 on: November 14, 2017, 03:36:32 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

This is like asking the mod to verify if a player is lying or not.  He can’t answer.

If he can, faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?

Why would it verify if he was lying or not? That could indeed be the correct mechanic (item breaks if town bids and wins it), and he could still be lying scum. They're not mutually exclusive things.

yeah. I am assuming that I just phrased the question poorly, but still. Weird.
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #219 on: November 14, 2017, 03:53:03 am »

Skum mind set for pushing a slot 3 claim:

1) We bid for Station 3 and did not get it.
2) One of us got T-Shirt
3) How do we use that to our advantage?
4) We go for a Station 3 claim and after finding the Vig (useless) or double voter, we also can have someone claim they tried and got T shirt (either the person with the high draft pick or a switch).
5) This will of course do what it always does and put some suspicion on the person who claims.


dunno if there is a ton of merit in that, but thought it should be mentioned.
Also we have a verified IC, which makes doing the claim without an order to be strange.

Vote: Iguana
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #220 on: November 14, 2017, 03:54:45 am »

dunno if there is a ton of merit in that

There isn't.

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #221 on: November 14, 2017, 05:55:57 am »

So, we have options.

We could direct PPS to kill tonight.  Outcomes:

--scum kill(s) + PPS kill
--PPS kill only
--scum kill(s) only
--no kills at all

If PPS is scum, I think you see one of the first two.  If PPS is town, any of them could happen for any number of reasons.

Best case in the scum!PPS world is we get to decide his team's target or they have to sacrifice him by not letting him "verify" his claim.  Worst case is we just let him kill someone with his vig while team still gets a factional kill.

So we are assuming only a single other faction than town with this concept.
Many more possibilities if we consider SK type roles and such.

I have weak-to-moderate reason to believe that town+scum are NOT the only two factions.

Sorry I'm turning up kind of late!

I didn't bid on slot 3.

As Haddock can verify as well, the Sword Stick came from our RMM, and was a purchasable item that only scum could begin the game with. That's kind of broken for an item that anyone of any faction can bid on, so I feel like if I was modding this I'd have allowed non-scums to bid on it, but not to receive it in a usable manner.
This is a weird thing to say.  I think I get your point.  But I find it weird that you would choose for non-scums to receive it broken.  There's no reason for that.

We know now that faust made the item break, as the text says - but there's no reason why he should have enforced that.  After all the "sell back to the bank" text is in the item text for this game, but isn't going to be followed.  (I assume)


So, we have options.

We could direct PPS to kill tonight.  Outcomes:

--scum kill(s) + PPS kill
--PPS kill only
--scum kill(s) only
--no kills at all

If PPS is scum, I think you see one of the first two.  If PPS is town, any of them could happen for any number of reasons.

Best case in the scum!PPS world is we get to decide his team's target or they have to sacrifice him by not letting him "verify" his claim.  Worst case is we just let him kill someone with his vig while team still gets a factional kill.

Are you paying attention? Sword stick is broken, it doesn't work anymore. That I prevented scum from getting it is a good thing. That I am town and thought I could use it is probably bad but whatever. You could easily confirm with faust yourself that if you received sword stick as town it would arrive broken. that you won't do this but would rather vote me as scum when I am already hated tells me that my vote is in the correct place.
Don't pretend like you were being so good at making yourself clear.  The conversation was getting super confused at this point.  I don't blame ash for not having picked up on what you were saying, it was very jumbled.  Especially when the word "broken" in a game context has very ambiguous meaning.  You should have said destroyed.  Would have been much clearer.

Vote: Haddock

Breaking your work computer is clearly a scummy thing to do ;-)

RVS now is bad.
Meh.  It's their first post of the game.  A couple of scumpoints to Galzria here for throwing unnecessary shade.  (Leaning towny on Galzria overall though, based on other posts.)


everybody is like immediately talking about boring game stuff

can we please just do classic scunhunting e.g. hey everyone how is your day going

Hey schadd! How's things?
i'm good. hope i did ok on my midterm this morning. playing a bunch of mando lately

didn't answer my question vote: space not moving today
Some schaddpoints for schadd.






Most interesting thing so far:

Finally vote: PPS

Oh, look, yes, I did bid slot 3. I was draft order #2. I got what I bid on.

This is what one calls a scumslip.
Not clear.  This all depends on how the town!recipient of the swordstick receives it.  3 possibilities:

1) You get the swordstick followed immediately by a message saying it has been destroyed.  Then town!PPS would know that they didn't really get anything and (probably) wouldn't say this.
2) You get nothing.  Then town!PPS definitely wouldn't say this.
3) You get an item called "broken swordstick" or something.  Depending on wording it's not necessarily totally obvious that you haven't actually got a useful thing - til later.  Then town!PPS might say this at first and figure it out later - which is pretty much PPS's current narrative.


If PPS is scum, he has to guess which of those three options faust would have gone with.  I think number 3 is by far the least likely, so (assuming PPS thinks at all like me) why would scum!PPS assume that this is how it works?
Unless it's a true derpy scumslip and he didn't mean to claim swordstick at all.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

ashersky

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #222 on: November 14, 2017, 07:22:18 am »

why are we debating about setup information that is clearly written in the OP?

Once during the game, at night, you may target a player. If you do, that player will be killed (under usual killing rules). This item will be destroyed. You may sell this to the bank when using “Collapse of the Pound”, for £4. This is immediately destroyed if given to a town player.

Also vote: ashersky vote: DatSwan vote: PPS vote: faust vote: Awaclus vote: Eevee vote: Galzria vote: Haddock vote: NoLynch

I fully disagree with you.  Given only your quote, it is absolutely unclear.  We can parse that sentence multiple ways, which means ambiguity exists.

I assumed that the item would be assigned to any player intact, and then if it was given to a town player by that player, or by another player in the future, it would be destroyed (i.e., removed from the game).

The mechanics from that game included giving items to other players, yes?  (I think that was the Sell this to the bank” thing.)
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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #223 on: November 14, 2017, 07:25:48 am »

The mechanics from that game included giving items to other players, yes?  (I think that was the Sell this to the bank” thing.)
Items could be passed around, yes.

Sell to the bank was something else.  Scum had purchasing power at the beginning of the game, to get things.  One ability they could purchase (for cheap, can't remember how much) was the ability to reroll their purchases once during the game, by selling back items they hadn't used.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM47: Rewind Mafia 2 (Day 1)
« Reply #224 on: November 14, 2017, 07:30:58 am »

Faust - If a town player  were to bid for, win, and receive the the stick during the beginning of the game start, would it be automatically destroyed prior to them being able to use it?

This is like asking the mod to verify if a player is lying or not.  He can’t answer.

If he can, faust, if a player named ashersky signed up for this game, and you randomly assigned alignments, is that player currently town?

Why would it verify if he was lying or not? That could indeed be the correct mechanic (item breaks if town bids and wins it), and he could still be lying scum. They're not mutually exclusive things.

This is a meta issue, because we now have precedent for having the mod confirm a player’s claim in-game.

We should absolutely ask the mod to confirm every single claim made by every single player from now on when it is setup-related.  We’ve effectively removed the ability for scum to lie.

If PPS is scum, he should have been able to lie about how the stick works.  He won it through the means built into the game, but then he lost the ability to use it when we had the mod confirm his claim about it.  Now, as town that’s great, but as a mafia player, it’s disappointing and painful.

My question was obviously facetious, and it wasn’t even framed right.  The answer is probably also facetious, although I’m not sure what it means specifically.  I know my alignment, and 100% is definitely not zero.  The mod confirmed that I am not 100% scum, since only 0% does that.

As for how it confirms PPS isn’t lying...I don’t understand your question.  PPS made a statement, faust confirmed said statement as true.  So, faust confirmed PPS did not lie.  Does that means PPS is town?  No.  Does that mean PPS was not lying?  Yes.

It’s what we do with Masons, right?  Mason #1 says “I said XYZ in our shared QT.”  Mason #2 confirms that Mason #1 said that.  Given a Mason flip, we now know the other was telling the truth.  But in this case, faust is equivalent to an Innocent Child with full setup knowledge and no vote.  We know he will never lie and is 100% trustworthy.  So we know that faust’s statement that PPS was telling the truth is the truth.

Ergo, we now know with 100% certainty that PPS was not lying.  That’s how it verified that he wasn’t lying, by verifying that he wasn’t lying.
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