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Author Topic: Playing with Black Market for Real  (Read 936 times)

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Omastar68

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Playing with Black Market for Real
« on: September 17, 2017, 09:36:28 pm »
+1

I'm wondering how people use Black Market irl. I don't have it, but even so. I mean it's a lot of cards (60) that are supposed to be in the BM deck whenever you use it. I imagine people use randomizer cards for it since they are already separate from actual piles so you just pull out 60 of them. Different backs isn't too informative for others, and it goes for everybody so that seems ok.

But even if you use Randomizers, don't you have to change most of the cards each time? I mean that's not a ton of work, but more than any other card, do people really use it when you actually have to set it up? Fun online though.
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werothegreat

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 09:45:51 pm »
+1

I've never played with Black Market IRL, though I own it.  I'd probably try to find some app to give 3 random cards not in the kingdom, simulating Dominion Online shuffling the deck, and pull out cards as needed.
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 10:40:37 pm »
+1

3 solutions we've used for the backs thing:

1) Use blank cards marked A, B, C etc and keep your blue-backed purchases set aside in order.
2) Decide that for this game Black Market will contain all of Hinterlands or something like that, and just pull out one of each normal card.
3) Just shuffle the blue-backs in.  Don't look at your deck while shuffling, but during the game if you happen to see one on top feel free to let it affect your Wishing Wells or any other choice.
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sorawotobu

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2017, 10:45:36 pm »
0

Instead of using the blue-backed randomizers you can just use one card from each pile. Now, when playing with Black Market, you already have a pile containing one (normal-backed) copy of each card not in the supply. This also lets you fit 10% more cards into your storage solution. I don't have Black Market but do use this set-up.
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 10:59:15 pm »
+5

i don't own it, but why don't you use the blue-backs, and then as you pull a card, grab one of the standard backs for that card?
then you only have to grab the cards you use.
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werothegreat

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 11:00:13 pm »
0

Or, if you keep each Kingdom pile in its own individual baggie (like I think jsh does) just reach in and grab 3 baggies, take out a baggie (and the 1 card from it), and chuck the rest back in the bin.
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Chris is me

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 11:14:07 pm »
0

Instead of using the blue-backed randomizers you can just use one card from each pile. Now, when playing with Black Market, you already have a pile containing one (normal-backed) copy of each card not in the supply. This also lets you fit 10% more cards into your storage solution. I don't have Black Market but do use this set-up.

This is way more annoying though, because you have to set up the deck every game. If you just use the randomizer deck you don't have to pull cards from 30+ different piles just to play with BM
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Donald X.

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 12:11:26 am »
+3

Instead of using the blue-backed randomizers you can just use one card from each pile. Now, when playing with Black Market, you already have a pile containing one (normal-backed) copy of each card not in the supply. This also lets you fit 10% more cards into your storage solution. I don't have Black Market but do use this set-up.

This is way more annoying though, because you have to set up the deck every game. If you just use the randomizer deck you don't have to pull cards from 30+ different piles just to play with BM
No. Instead of using the blue-backed randomizers as randomizers, use one card from each pile for your regular randomizer deck, for game after game. Add the card to the pile to play; put any card from that pile back in your non-randomizer randomizer deck after the game. Now, in the rare games using Black Market, you already have a pile with one of each normal-backed card not in the supply - it's the pile you're using as randomizers.
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Polk5440

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 12:13:32 am »
0

I've played with it a few times in person and used cards from a particular expansion, usually the base set. The simple cards reduce reading time and the likelihood less experienced players are bogged down by unfamiliar cards.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 12:53:30 am »
0

My group does and we use the randomizer Kingdom Shuffler to take care of it all.  The app handles...

* Generating a virtual BM deck of any size you choose (we use 25) from cards not already in the kingdom
* Adding any extra cards (such as the Bane) to the supply based on the content of the BM deck
* Letting players review the content of the BM deck
* Drawing cards when BM is played
* Removing bought cards from the BM deck
* Ordering un-bought cards when they are put on the bottom of the BM deck

The only thing we have to do is get a copy of each bought card out of the box.  That and remember to give each player a coin token if Baker is in the BM deck.

Before the app had this feature, we used to just grab 25 random cards from the randomizer deck (which we don't use for anything else) and go from there.  It wasn't too much setup.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 01:53:20 am by ObtusePunubiris »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 01:17:12 am »
+1

Where did you get 60 from? There's no rule like that... you can use however many cards you'd like.

Anyway, last time I used it, I used 25 random cards because of Isotropic. I used the blue-back randomizers as the deck, and when a card was purchased we just put the randomized in our deck. We weren't playing with any cards where it particularly mattered that we could tell top card of our deck was from the Black Market, or if someone was holding a card from the Black Market, so it didn't matter.

And choosing 25 cards from the randomizer was no tougher than choosing the 10 Kingdom cards. Just count out 25 cards and use them. Even if you were using 60 that wouldn't take long.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 01:18:45 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 01:43:27 am »
0

Where did you get 60 from?

ShiT's implementation.
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 09:23:56 am »
0

i don't own it, but why don't you use the blue-backs, and then as you pull a card, grab one of the standard backs for that card? then you only have to grab the cards you use.

That's what I did. Haven't used Black Market in a long time. (Don't actually have it, but I've divided up my blank cards to use as proxies.)
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Omastar68

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 11:45:46 am »
0

Where did you get 60 from? There's no rule like that... you can use however many cards you'd like.

Anyway, last time I used it, I used 25 random cards because of Isotropic. I used the blue-back randomizers as the deck, and when a card was purchased we just put the randomized in our deck. We weren't playing with any cards where it particularly mattered that we could tell top card of our deck was from the Black Market, or if someone was holding a card from the Black Market, so it didn't matter.

And choosing 25 cards from the randomizer was no tougher than choosing the 10 Kingdom cards. Just count out 25 cards and use them. Even if you were using 60 that wouldn't take long.

Yea, I definitely heard 25. Interesting Shuffle IT went from there to 60. I get at least 1 BM early almost every game, and I think I've lost each one I didn't, but is it significantly weaker w/ 25 cards? Sure it's still random, but the chances are lower that there's anything good for that kingdom. Where as if you actually owned and used every other card it'd be extremely strong and essentially a must-buy in the start...I think.
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Awaclus

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 03:58:42 pm »
+1

It's extremely strong and a must-buy no matter what. I think the idea of increasing the cards to 60 is that you won't be able to learn the contents of the deck as fast (since it's no longer public information on ShiT).
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aku_chi

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 04:25:06 pm »
+1

It's extremely strong and a must-buy no matter what.

There you go exaggerating again...

I'll just leave this here.
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Chappy7

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 06:09:03 pm »
+1

i don't own it, but why don't you use the blue-backs, and then as you pull a card, grab one of the standard backs for that card?
then you only have to grab the cards you use.

Yeah, this is what I do. It works just fine.  It's never seemed that complicated
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Scoobie

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 06:16:09 pm »
+1

I got an idea from an old thread to make a permanent Black Market deck. I play almost exclusively with my husband, so together we chose a 28 cards to put in this deck. I then wrote the name of each card and its cost on a blank Dominion card. (We chose 28 because that was the number of blank cards I had on hand.) When someone buys from BM, they choose their card and then I pull an actual card from the box for their hand and put the "blank" card aside. This way I don't have to pull a bunch of cards that don't get used (and then return them.)

At the time I did this, we owned all expansions except Dark Ages and Corn/Guilds.  We will probably add some from these games when we get them and more blank cards.

We use the randomizers under each pile to show empty piles. Piles with no randomizers are marked with blank cards.
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tripwire

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 07:43:34 pm »
0

i don't own it, but why don't you use the blue-backs, and then as you pull a card, grab one of the standard backs for that card?
then you only have to grab the cards you use.

Yeah, this is what I do. It works just fine.  It's never seemed that complicated

Same here. These threads always seem odd to me. I've never thought BM was onerous to set up.

Also, we usually just play with the entire randomizer deck for maximum craziness.
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 11:12:52 pm »
0

How would split piles work, if you're using the blue backs?
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 08:36:30 am »
+1

How would split piles work, if you're using the blue backs?

Good point, I obviously haven't had a BM game irl since Empies came out. I'd probably just make it the top card. Or even let them pick. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2017, 12:40:12 am »
+1

You could find an app that creates a virtual deck that manages it for you.  When you buy something, it lets you mark it off as purchased.  Either way, current player then gets to decide what order to bottom deck them.

i don't own it, but why don't you use the blue-backs, and then as you pull a card, grab one of the standard backs for that card?
then you only have to grab the cards you use.
I've done this when we were only up to a few sets.  it works out well.  We only buy a fraction of the BM deck, so the randomizers get to go right back to their respective decks without further action.
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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2017, 04:54:16 pm »
0

I have all the expansions, so I have an immense number of randomizers (what is it, 250? 275? these days?). Every once and a while, we shuffle them all together.

One the rare occasion that we get Black Market in a deck, we just grab a stack of randomizers off the pile, and use those for the BM deck. If we draw a kingdom card already on the board in the BM deck, we discard it and replace it from the BM deck. When we buy a card from the BM deck, we discard the randomizer, and pull that card from the regular sets. At the end of the game, we put away the singleton cards where they belong.

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humcalc216

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Re: Playing with Black Market for Real
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2017, 08:30:39 pm »
+1

When I play IRL, we usually pick a few expansions to play with (and we typically put Black Market in Cornucopia, because reasons).  If BM comes up, we pick another expansion to be the Black Market Deck and use the randomizers (and fetch the regular card once bought).

How would split piles work, if you're using the blue backs?

When Empires is the BM deck, we do "Quantum Split Piles."  If a split randomizer comes up, we randomly pick one of the cards for it to be.  If it's not bought and comes up again, it can be different the next time.
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