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[schadd]

welcome to M110: led zeppelin mafia

this game will use borq zop, an invented semi-open setup for 13 players that should also be generally pretty ok

mod: hullo

tags: ash, roado, geekergs

big legged women:
1. galzie walzie
2. 2.71828...
3. Skumpy
4. LaLight
5. DatSwan
6. AndrewisFTTW
7. Xxraptorslayer96
8. chairs
9. Awaclus
10. Dylan32
11. faust
12. SpaceAnemone
13. IDontPlayThisGame

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, aquamarine text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.

Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights

[schadd]

setup

3x mafioids
7x VT
2-4x town PR, chosen from the list below (no duplicates). each has a number associated with it; the sum of the 3 numbers corresponds to mafia abilities.


specifically, the PRs are chosen by the algorithm:
>flip a 3-sided coin, heads means pick 2, tails means pick 3, wings means pick 4
>if the sum is lower than 4 or higher than 8 try again


N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

...which correspond to these abilities for a scumteam. these abilities are factional, though each needs to specify a perpetrator.

4: naaathing
5: rolecop
6: roleblocker
7: rc + rb
8: daytalk + rc + rb

role PMs:

welcome! you are a vanilla townie. you don't have any night actions but you are free to participate in any and all legal day activities which everyone knows is the part that's actually fun.

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a town N2 weak neighborizer. on the second night, you may target a player; on day 3, if your target is town, a QT will open up which the two of you have access to and may communicate in at any time. if your target is mafia, you will diiiiiie.

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a town N1 ascetic 3-shot tracker. three times, at night, you may target someone to learn who, if anyone, that player targeted with some night action that night. additionally, any non-killing action performed on you on the first night will fail.

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a town vigilante. each night, you may shoot a player. they die unless protected.

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a town odd-night doctor and even-night neapolitan. on odd nights (like. the 1, 3, 5 kind of odd) you may target some player to protect them from one killing action. on even nights, you may target some player to learn whether or not they are a vanilla townie.

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a town jailkeeper + rolecop. each night, you may target someone to both prevent any night actions they have from working and to protect them from one killing action. additionally, if your target is one of the other two power roles, you will be informed what type of power role they are (vanilla townies as well as mafia members will yield the result "vanilla").

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a town ascetic double motion detector. each night, you may choose two players and learn, for both of them individually, whether that player either targeted another player or was targeted by a night action. additionally, any non-killing night action targeting you will fail.

you win when all threats to the town are dead and buried.

welcome! you are a member of the mafia. you may talk to your teammates in [qt] and may have factional abilities, which will be detailed there.

you win when you make up half of those alive during a day phase or when nothing can prevent that from being the case.

clarifications:
-the double motion detector can have only one of their detections fail, i.e. in the case of an ascetic.
-the mafia QT is closed during the day, with the exception of the 8 sum of town PR numbers.
-each mafia member can only use one factional ability, unless there are more abilities than mafia members alive.
-what else?

[schadd]

hey-hey mama, said the way you move
gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove

flavor will be done as a sorta distilled version of fleetwood mac flavor: everyone's flip is just an excerpt of a relevant led zeppelin song, no one has any information about their flavor in advance of when they die/survive

[Galzria]

Proast theif

I don't know what you're talking about

setup stuff

[schadd]

galzie if i had to i would just edit setup stuff right into your post

uhhh i guess you could edit it back until i moved it to the subforum so i would have to do it after that

[Galzria]

/in

[2.71828.....]

/in

Hopefully schadd is too busy at school and I can steal all the pagetops

[2.71828.....]

But actually, this game really should wait to start until m108 or m109 start D3 at least. Well, that's my opinion. Unless there are sufficiently enough people who aren't trying in those other games.

[AndrewisFTTW]

/tag

[Skumpy]

/in

Which ruins my productive-procrastinationproof-plan pledge for the upcoming year. So be it.

[ashersky]

Tag

[LaLight]

Babe, baby, baby, I'm Gonna Leave You.
I said baby, you know I'm gonna leave you.
I'll leave you /in the summertime,
Leave you when the summer comes a-rollin'
Leave you when the summer comes along.

[Roadrunner7671]

Tag

[Swowl]

/in

[AndrewisFTTW]

/in

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Fingers crossed that this goes better then the last one. REDEMPTION!!!

/in

[Galzria]

Fingers crossed that this goes better then the last one. REDEMPTION!!!

/in

Ahh! Raptor!

[chairs]

/in

[Teproc]

I don't get schadd's setups but

/in

[Teproc]

Rooting for... Battle of Evermore. Or another of the Tolkien ones.

[Dylan32]

heck, why not? /in

[Galzria]

Fiiiiillll

[schadd]

I don't get schadd's setups but

/in

is something confusing u?

Rooting for... Battle of Evermore. Or another of the Tolkien ones.

o ya ramble on is definitely gonna surface

[SpaceAnemone]

/tag

Will join if it turns out I have time :-)

[Teproc]

I don't get schadd's setups but

/in

is something confusing u?

Just stuff like N1 Ascetic which is perfectly clear but I'm not used to.

I don't really know what a "double motion detector" is, though ?

[faust]

Ah man. The lineup looks too good.

/in

[faust]

Setup seems a bit townsided. Vig + Tracker + Neighborizer and nothing for scum?

[faust]

Also confused that the Tracker is as good as the N2 Neighborizer here and worse than the vig. I would tentatively disagree.

[schadd]

I don't get schadd's setups but

/in

is something confusing u?

Just stuff like N1 Ascetic which is perfectly clear but I'm not used to.

I don't really know what a "double motion detector" is, though ?

motion detector targets someone and gets a binary result of [they were targeted or they targeted someone] or [they neither targeted anyone nor were targeted].

double means the motion detector may perform this action on two different people.

i gotta make role PMs

Setup seems a bit townsided. Vig + Tracker + Neighborizer and nothing for scum?

here's a point of comparison
vig + essentially cop + 2-shot tracker vs. essentially 3 goons

scum won in 3-way lylo, uh, n=1. and people who make tons and tons of setups said it was good. so, according to a small sample size and an argument from authority it seems fine. and the setup you mentioned seems about the same strength, maybe even a little weaker for town.

Also confused that the Tracker is as good as the N2 Neighborizer here and worse than the vig. I would tentatively disagree.

ya i'm changing tracker to 3-shot for that and other reasons. but:

I = Tracker
...
KK = Vigilante

?

i don't think tracker is all that much better or worse in either setup.

[schadd]

i gotta make role PMs

k done.

[faust]

scum won in 3-way lylo, uh, n=1. and people who make tons and tons of setups said it was good. so, according to a small sample size and an argument from authority it seems fine. and the setup you mentioned seems about the same strength, maybe even a little weaker for town.

Well I think most of the setups we play here are more scumsided than those on mafiascum. I would say the setup you linked is super unfair for scum. I wonder why that is; maybe it has to do with shorter deadlines and thus less place for analysis.

Also confused that the Tracker is as good as the N2 Neighborizer here and worse than the vig. I would tentatively disagree.

ya i'm changing tracker to 3-shot for that and other reasons. but:

I = Tracker
...
KK = Vigilante

?

i don't think tracker is all that much better or worse in either setup.

Well I guess my concern was more about N2 Neighborizer seeming way worse than Tracker. I see that has been changed now.

[faust]

scum won in 3-way lylo, uh, n=1. and people who make tons and tons of setups said it was good. so, according to a small sample size and an argument from authority it seems fine. and the setup you mentioned seems about the same strength, maybe even a little weaker for town.

In second glance, the thread you linked seems to be for a closed setup. That naturally makes town a lot weaker, so it's not really comparable to semi-open things like this one.

[schadd]

scum won in 3-way lylo, uh, n=1. and people who make tons and tons of setups said it was good. so, according to a small sample size and an argument from authority it seems fine. and the setup you mentioned seems about the same strength, maybe even a little weaker for town.

Well I think most of the setups we play here are more scumsided than those on mafiascum. I would say the setup you linked is super unfair for scum. I wonder why that is; maybe it has to do with shorter deadlines and thus less place for analysis.

deadlines there are twice as long as here typically.

i mean remember that there's the factors of
>there's only like 20-something people that play here and we all know each other
>the town winrate here was quite yikes, at least for a while (seems to have been picking up lately?)
>i think scum play here is kind of unsophisticated? like in terms of PR hunting and such. i'm the only one i can remember talking about who PRs might be in scum threads (but also i pay like no attention and retain like 0 data as scum so.)

scum won in 3-way lylo, uh, n=1. and people who make tons and tons of setups said it was good. so, according to a small sample size and an argument from authority it seems fine. and the setup you mentioned seems about the same strength, maybe even a little weaker for town.

In second glance, the thread you linked seems to be for a closed setup. That naturally makes town a lot weaker, so it's not really comparable to semi-open things like this one.

so i changed the setup a bit to closer emulate the gameplay of a closed (2-4 PRs instead of always 3, but probabilistically it's still most likely 3)

however, in practice i think it is less true that semi-open favors town than intuitively. first of all, there is still a lot of confirm-ness in a closed setup: some mechanically (e.g. vigilante), some in a guess-the-mod way (e.g., there are expectations and patterns for roles, see "sin the second" and other related mastina grumbles) and some in an information way (if, for example, somebody came in claiming double motion detector, even though that's kind of not a thing in normals, that's a super risky play to fakeclaim as scum without having that information and if they do have access to that information the meta-element of the claim seeming unlikely to come from scum is factored into the setup balance).

additionally, confirmation is something you don't especially care about as a town PR: the only time it really matters is by the end of the game and you kind of expect (or want, even, because of results) to be killed off anyway by then.

whereas there is some amount of benefit to semi-openness from a scum perspective, e.g. you know there isn't a cop (you're welcome also) so bussing is maybe better, you know that protective roles are somewhat common (but more common on odd nights), you know that there's both tracker and jailer so it's good to have at least two alive as long as possible, etc.

basically what i'm getting at is closed is super similar to semi-open except pretty much no setup spec happens until like D3 which makes it like strictly better.

[schadd]

also note: n2 neighborizer changed to n3 masonizer then to n2 weak neighborizer

[schadd]

unrelated: @space

[SpaceAnemone]

unrelated: @space

zvláštní :-)

/in

[Awaclus]

/in

[Teproc]

Hammer ? In that case I think I have to /out actually, sorry.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hammer ? In that case I think I have to /out actually, sorry.

Bro?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

/in if the slot's open, /tag otherwise

[schadd]

hammor!


PMs out tonight unless someone objects!

[schadd]

it seems as though there are approximately 0 games active so i'll start this when this l@me lecture is over

[schadd]

one last change: 8 sum is rc + rb + daytalk instead of just rb + daytalk.

[schadd]

thread locked.

[schadd]

aight, PMs are all out. the game will start once everyone has confirmed.

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/s8e6VZTDBvs?t=11s

lemme take you to the movie,
can i take you to the show?
lemme be yours, ever truly,
can i make your garden grow?

Day 1 Starts!

Vote count 1.0

not voting (13): Galzria, 2.71828..., Skumpy, LaLight, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96, chairs, Awaclus, Dylan32, faust, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 starts now and ends tuesday, november 7th at 21:00 forum time. thread unspooked.

mod notes

• did u know that a group of wild pigs is called a gandry

[Dylan32]

First. I'm pretty sure I haven't played with like a fourth of you all. Let's see what Vote: DatSwan does.

[Galzria]

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Okay. vote: Raptor

[Skumpy]

I signed up fully expecting to be Skum, based on both my luck with randomness and my distrust of schadd's methods. So I spent like a month concocting up scenarios to try and figure out what I would do and say as town so I could translate it to Skum play.

Turns out it didn't matter at all.

I've got like 10 other thoughts on my mind, I will stop now because I really want to work on not-wall-of-texting and not boring people to death. Good luck to me and my 9 compatriots!

[Galzria]

I signed up fully expecting to be Skum, based on both my luck with randomness and my distrust of schadd's methods. So I spent like a month concocting up scenarios to try and figure out what I would do and say as town so I could translate it to Skum play.

Turns out it didn't matter at all.

I've got like 10 other thoughts on my mind, I will stop now because I really want to work on not-wall-of-texting and not boring people to death. Good luck to me and my 9 compatriots!

Why do you distrust Schadd's methods?

[Skumpy]

I signed up fully expecting to be Skum, based on both my luck with randomness and my distrust of schadd's methods. So I spent like a month concocting up scenarios to try and figure out what I would do and say as town so I could translate it to Skum play.

Turns out it didn't matter at all.

I've got like 10 other thoughts on my mind, I will stop now because I really want to work on not-wall-of-texting and not boring people to death. Good luck to me and my 9 compatriots!

Why do you distrust Schadd's methods?

bcause hes a wily and cunning *insert-noun-of-your-choice*. mandolinist!

I just felt he might override the system and throw me into the fire to see how I'd fare (I probably didn't actually believe he would, I'm pretty sure it was just paranoia and fear on my part).

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hi everyone! Don't kill me N1 again please, thanks!

[chairs]

If we lynch you N1 then scum can't lynch you! vote: AndrewisFTTW.

I'M HELPING!

[chairs]

Also, boo schadd for not leading with Fool in the Rain as the first song in flavor.

i thought of it, believe it or not. i think if i do use it for something i would want to use the drum only recording

[2.71828.....]

Well booger. Missed the first pagetop already. Doesn't bode well for this game

[2.71828.....]

If we lynch you N1 then scum can't lynch you! vote: AndrewisFTTW.

I'M HELPING!

I don't think this says what you meant it to say

[Awaclus]

Vote: Andrew

Silverspawn is not in the game but someone's got to be scum.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: Andrew

Silverspawn is not in the game but someone's got to be scum.

Never heard that one before.

[AndrewisFTTW]

If we lynch you N1 then scum can't lynch you! vote: AndrewisFTTW.

I'M HELPING!
[/quote

Who is we?]

[AndrewisFTTW]

Quote fail

If we lynch you N1 then scum can't lynch you! vote: AndrewisFTTW.

I'M HELPING!

Who is we?

[faust]

I forgot just how weird Skumpy is. Hi Skumpy, welcome back.

In other news, Andrew and chairs are townie, and Galzria is scummy.

Vote: Galzria

[Skumpy]

I forgot just how weird Skumpy is. Hi Skumpy, welcome back.

Honestly, I felt I was being tamer than usual there. But thank you! Glad to be able to waste even more time than I already am!
I will now try to put the past behind me and give you the benefit of the doubt, though I'm pretty sure I will vote for you many times again nonetheless. Enjoy!

In other news, Andrew and chairs are townie, and Galzria is scummy.

Vote: Galzria

Didn't we just do this? And weren't you wrong on 2/3?

[Swowl]

First. I'm pretty sure I haven't played with like a fourth of you all. Let's see what Vote: DatSwan does.

Nice to meet you!

Vote: Skumpy

Can't spell Skumpy without skum....

[faust]

In other news, Andrew and chairs are townie, and Galzria is scummy.

Vote: Galzria

Didn't we just do this? And weren't you wrong on 2/3?

I don't have a problem with being wrong. If you do, maybe don't play social deduction games?

[LaLight]

hey everyone

vote: chairs

[SpaceAnemone]

Good morning all!

Vote: LL Great to be in a game with you again!

How's things? Feeling scummy this time round?

[LaLight]

Good morning all!

Vote: LL Great to be in a game with you again!

How's things? Feeling scummy this time round?

hey! I didn't realize you're here! Things are well, never felt more towny. how about you?

[SpaceAnemone]

Good morning all!

Vote: LL Great to be in a game with you again!

How's things? Feeling scummy this time round?

hey! I didn't realize you're here! Things are well, never felt more towny. how about you?

Yeah, life is awesome and towny here :-)

[LaLight]

Already stalling? Dama!

[LaLight]

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

[LaLight]

If there are neighborizers that is

[LaLight]

Let’s discuss something even if it’s a terrible idea

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Hello all!

Oh the pressure is unreal...  vote: galzria

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

I don't see the point in claiming anything this early in D1.

[LaLight]

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

I don't see the point in claiming anything this early in D1.

Every setup has something to claim so it would be profitable for us. Maybe not this one though

[Awaclus]

Well, neighborizers are very low utility PRs. If a neighborizer becomes an IC, that's pretty good for us.

[Galzria]

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Hello all!

Oh the pressure is unreal...  vote: galzria

OMGUS? Good way to find scum.

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

I don't see the point in claiming anything this early in D1.

Every setup has something to claim so it would be profitable for us. Maybe not this one though

More important than theory talk:

Why are you voting Chairs?

[LaLight]

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Hello all!

Oh the pressure is unreal...  vote: galzria

OMGUS? Good way to find scum.

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

I don't see the point in claiming anything this early in D1.

Every setup has something to claim so it would be profitable for us. Maybe not this one though

More important than theory talk:

Why are you voting Chairs?

Rvs and his first post which was weird

[LaLight]

I’m open to options!

[Galzria]

Roles/Modifiers I need to look up:

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

Weak - does that fail on scum? Kill you if you target scum?
Ascetic - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.
Neapolitan - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.

role PMs are relevant!

[Galzria]

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Hello all!

Oh the pressure is unreal...  vote: galzria

OMGUS? Good way to find scum.

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

I don't see the point in claiming anything this early in D1.

Every setup has something to claim so it would be profitable for us. Maybe not this one though

More important than theory talk:

Why are you voting Chairs?

Rvs and his first post which was weird

RVS - Fair
Why do you think Faust found Chairs townie?

[schadd]

Vote count 1.1

DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): Galzria, IDontPlayThisGame
AndrewisFTTW (2): chairs, Awaclus
Galzria (2): faust, Xxraptorslayer96
Skumpy (1): DatSwan
chairs (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): SpaceAnemone

not voting (3): 2.71828..., Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 starts now and ends tuesday, november 7th at 21:00 forum time.

mod notes

• did u know that "led zeppelin" anagrams with "illegal alcatraz"

mod quotes

Why do you distrust Schadd's methods?

bcause hes a wily and cunning *insert-noun-of-your-choice*. mandolinist!

Also, boo schadd for not leading with Fool in the Rain as the first song in flavor.

i thought of it, believe it or not. i think if i do use it for something i would want to use the drum only recording

Roles/Modifiers I need to look up:

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

Weak - does that fail on scum? Kill you if you target scum?
Ascetic - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.
Neapolitan - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.

role PMs are relevant!

[Dylan32]

Roles/Modifiers I need to look up:

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

Weak - does that fail on scum? Kill you if you target scum?
Ascetic - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.
Neapolitan - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.

role PMs are relevant!

Weak - Dies if target of your action is scum.
Ascetic - Immune to night actions other than night kills.
Neapolitan - A cop that returns vanilla if target is VT, not-vanilla otherwise.

All answers according to the normal version described on mafiascum.

PPE 1: of course he listed the pms...

[Galzria]

Roles/Modifiers I need to look up:

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

Weak - does that fail on scum? Kill you if you target scum?
Ascetic - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.
Neapolitan - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.

role PMs are relevant!

Weak - Dies if target of your action is scum.
Ascetic - Immune to night actions other than night kills.
Neapolitan - A cop that returns vanilla if target is VT, not-vanilla otherwise.

All answers according to the normal version described on mafiascum.

PPE 1: of course he listed the pms...

Ah. Well then. I only read the setup when I first /in'ned. I should go back and read those lol.

[faust]

Vote: Dylan

[faust]

Rvs and his first post which was weird

It cannot be both.

[LaLight]

Rvs and his first post which was weird

It cannot be both.

Second more than first. To be sincere i thoufht “i need to vote for someone” then I saw his post and thought, that’s more scummy than anything before it

[Galzria]

Rvs and his first post which was weird

It cannot be both.

Second more than first. To be sincere i thoufht “i need to vote for someone” then I saw his post and thought, that’s more scummy than anything before it

Why did you feel the need to vote for someone?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

[LaLight]

Rvs and his first post which was weird

It cannot be both.

Second more than first. To be sincere i thoufht “i need to vote for someone” then I saw his post and thought, that’s more scummy than anything before it

Why did you feel the need to vote for someone?

I didn’t. I like to start game with vote so when the person is scum i can say  i told you

[Skumpy]

In other news, Andrew and chairs are townie, and Galzria is scummy.

Vote: Galzria

Didn't we just do this? And weren't you wrong on 2/3?

I don't have a problem with being wrong. If you do, maybe don't play social deduction games?

But...I really do hate being wrong....
What do you suggest I do instead with my life? (That's a serious question btw, I currently have no direction or purpose)

Already stalling? Dama!

I never did find out what that stands for. Does anybody mind assisting?


With regards to the setup discussion (because I refuse to participate in these RVS shenanigans):

The fact that there's likely (something over 50% anyways) a scum roleblocker and no good way to find out who's doing it makes claiming sounds reallllly sketchy to me, since scum will probably be able to just shut them down. The new set-up of 2-4 PR's makes things nice in the sense that scum has no idea what's a safe claim and what's not. As a point of reference:

4: 1 + 1 + 2        or 1 + 3                    or 2 + 2
5: 1 + 1 + 3        or 1 + 2 + 2              or 2 + 3
6: 1 + 2 + 3        or 3 + 3                    or 1 + 1 + 2 + 2
7: 2 + 2 + 3        or 1 + 3 + 3              or 1 + 1 + 2 + 3
8: 2 + 3 + 3        or 1 + 1 + 3 + 3        or 1 + 2 + 2 + 3

So anyways, scum's in a tough boat if they wanna fake a claim. Like, it could probably be done, but I know I wouldn't be enthusiastic to try something out. IDK, maybe there is something worthwhile in clearing a bunch of people? If scum's not ready for a massclaim...then again, I think I'm not the person to decide if a massclaim's good. So I'll give up trying to figure it out for now.

Well, neighborizers are very low utility PRs. If a neighborizer becomes an IC, that's pretty good for us.

Why do they suck? They seem great to me, we get 2 confirmed town (not exactly, but you know what I mean). And also: What happens if a neighborizer gets roleblocked?

the action fails; no neighborhood opens, no dying happens.

[SpaceAnemone]

Already stalling? Dama!

I never did find out what that stands for. Does anybody mind assisting?

Nice :-) It's usually "Drunk: Ask Me Anything".

I've never played in a game with you before, have I? What's your experience in Mafia?

So anyways, scum's in a tough boat if they wanna fake a claim.

I admit to not having done as much set-up crunching as I'd normally do here just because I've been busy, but I worry that too much analysis of how scum wants to behave straight off the bat might be indicative of too much of the wrong kind of thinking having taken place already. Or maybe you're just really thorough and have a lot of time on your hands... I dunno yet.

[Skumpy]

Already stalling? Dama!

I never did find out what that stands for. Does anybody mind assisting?

Nice :-) It's usually "Drunk: Ask Me Anything".

I've never played in a game with you before, have I? What's your experience in Mafia?

Thank you.

Nope, this is our first encounter. Greetings! Experience of relevant nature = 1 game (105) in which I kept screaming that I have no idea what I'm doing, then stumbled into a victory. This game will most likely be the same, with the word 'hopefully' appended.

I admit to not having done as much set-up crunching as I'd normally do here just because I've been busy, but I worry that too much analysis of how scum wants to behave straight off the bat might be indicative of too much of the wrong kind of thinking having taken place already. Or maybe you're just really thorough and have a lot of time on your hands... I dunno yet.

For the 'lot of time on your hands': I don't, but I'm here anyways. Like I said, I'm open to recommendations for a better hobby.

'Wrong type of thinking': ...so what is the 'right' type of thinking? There's a setup (that I now think I actually do understand), let's see if anything can be done with it. It seems a lot tougher for scum to come up with a plan than in my first game (which I am going to keep referencing because I have no other good sources, apologies in advance. The "I'm not the person to decide if a massclaim is good" is a tribute to that) because they don't really know what PRs are in play. Maybe that's an early advantage? I'm not totally sure, which is why I'm leaving it open.

(Deep down, yeah, I probably know it's definitely a really stupid idea to claim now, but talking about that beats RVS. I might like random, but I like the analysis more).

[Skumpy]

For the 'lot of time on your hands': I don't, but I'm here anyways. Like I said, I'm open to recommendations for a better hobby.

To elaborate on this: if anybody wants to do my homework for me that was due last Sunday, shoot me a PM!

if it's math u need to do it urself because it's important to learn and if it's not math then i don't feel like it

[2.71828.....]

For the 'lot of time on your hands': I don't, but I'm here anyways. Like I said, I'm open to recommendations for a better hobby.

To elaborate on this: if anybody wants to do my homework for me that was due last Sunday, shoot me a PM!

What type of homework and what level of difficulty?

[2.71828.....]

In other news, scum is totally hiding in people who aren't voting yet (looking at you, e)

[Swowl]

Question - since this set up is different then 108 (no drafting) did skum find out about their PRs in like the “pre-twilight” game stage with time to talk about their game plan or after the game started?


scum were made aware of their factional abilities in N0 if they have them.

[2.71828.....]

Question - since this set up is different then 108 (no drafting) did skum find out about their PRs in like the “pre-twilight” game stage with time to talk about their game plan or after the game started?

yeah, but it is called Night 0, which starts after PMs are sent and ends when D1 begins.

[2.71828.....]

well, thats the normal thing

[2.71828.....]

Also, skumpy is town

[Galzria]

Also, skumpy is town

For now, I concur.

[chairs]

Townpy.

vote: Space.

That post they made just feels not!Space to me.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

vote: DatSwan

[Awaclus]

Neighbors aren't masons, they only confirm having that ability.

[faust]

vote: DatSwan

So do you think scum!DatSwan wanted to fake a townslip? Or are you just randomly placing a vote that makes you look all deep and mysterious?

[faust]

Prediction: There is exactly one scum among the three people who just called Skumpy town.

[Awaclus]

vote: DatSwan

So do you think scum!DatSwan wanted to fake a townslip? Or are you just randomly placing a vote that makes you look all deep and mysterious?

I wouldn't place any value on that "townslip" in either direction. It can easily come from both alignments.

[Skumpy]

For the 'lot of time on your hands': I don't, but I'm here anyways. Like I said, I'm open to recommendations for a better hobby.

To elaborate on this: if anybody wants to do my homework for me that was due last Sunday, shoot me a PM!

if it's math u need to do it urself because it's important to learn and if it's not math then i don't feel like it

What type of homework and what level of difficulty?

CS. I should probably read the whole spec since it's now over 3 days late. The class is like getting used to Linux & Emacs and that sorta stuff. This assignment is more about learning debugging and some C coding (I guess). As for schadd: I'll probably just look at past students' work that is now up on Github and follow along with what they do, meaning I don't learn it myself. Math HW I'll just be googling, then cramming the learning before tests. Has worked thusly far with mixed results.

Neighbors aren't masons, they only confirm having that ability.

I don't really get the difference. If 2 people claim neighbors, I'll almost certainly believe them (depending on who does it, but even then...)

Prediction: There is exactly one scum among the three people who just called Skumpy town.

(and implied quoting of the 2.7, Galzria, and chairs reads too that I don't feel like copyPasting)

First off, I love how it's gone:
Skumpy: Anyone wanna talk setup?
3 people: You're town, AKA, No, now shuddup.

Secondly, well done you 3! Congratulations on quickly realizing what will soon be obvious for everybody and thanks for reminding me how badly my first Skum game will go!

Nextly @faust and the above prediction:
You know what's really annoying? The fact that I agree with you. And the fact that I'm so tempted to vote for you because I don't like it when people agree with what I'm thinking. But I've also got a feeling that you're going to be town whenever I read you as scum and vice versa. So I won't vote for you now (meaning that you're scum, so I will vote, meaning you're town, and now I'm in a perpetual loop). Question: Does this mean you're also giving me towncred? Or just that there's 1 scum in the above 3 (which I'm now realizing isn't surprising since you voted Galzria already. Again.)

Well, it looks like the RVS is starting to wear out and I need to start making reads. I've got a couple suspects in mind. Not feeling like elaborating because I want some more info before I cast my first vote.

And finally, looks like my pledge to not text-wall got shattered after like 5 posts. No surprises there, I expected it. Still procrastinating on the HW, feel free to keep conversing with me! Happy to give prompt responses to any direct questions!

[faust]

Question: Does this mean you're also giving me towncred? Or just that there's 1 scum in the above 3 (which I'm now realizing isn't surprising since you voted Galzria already. Again.)

I don't have much of a read on you either way so far.

I would like to say that I would have made that statement even if Galzria wasn't among the people commenting, but then again, who knows? I would currently point to Galzria as the scummiest of the bunch.

[faust]

With regards to setup talk, I don't think there's much to be achieved. We may get ICs, but we won't enjoy them for long and we souldn't lynch PRs on D1 anyway.

[Swowl]

Already stalling? Dama!

(Deep down, yeah, I probably know it's definitely a really stupid idea to claim now, but talking about that beats RVS. I might like random, but I like the analysis more).

Rough math, but this is where I am at. Based on the 3-sided dice flip thing, we can assume:

4s
1a-1b-3a
1a-2b-3b

5s
1a-2a-2b
1b-2a-2b
3a-1a-1b
3b-1a-1b

6s
1a-2a-3a
1a-2a-3b
1a-2b-3a
1a-2b-3b
1b-2a-3a
1b-2a-3b
1b-2b-3a
1b-2b-3b

7s
2a-2b-3a
2a-2b-3b
3a-3b-1a
3a-3b-1b

8s
2a-3a-3b
2b-3a-3b


20 possible outcomes.
4s are 2/20 - 10% - no skum pr
5s are 4/20 - 20% - skum rc
6s are 8/20 - 40% - skum rb
7s are 4/20 - 20% - skum rc+rb
8s are 2/20 - 10% - skum dc+rc+rb


Ok so... We claim. Everyone tells truth, except skum who all claim vt.
We reveal our roles. We learn what skum has to work with, but not who has what.

Downsides:
1. Skum has DC. 10% chance but still would screw us if we have less than 3 PRs.
2. Skum knows who has what roles.
3. Best/Real case scenario = 3 skum + 7 Town claim VT. Skum then knows the 3/10 PRs we have and we are shooting 3/10 instead of 3/13.

Upsides:
1. Down the road it would make isolating lies easy.
2. We would learn how many skum PRs there are, and which there are.


I think everyone kind of agrees claiming this early on would be a bad idea - but just my 2 cents worth on the matter.

*also I am new to this set up - so if I am missing something plz lmk*

[Awaclus]

I don't really get the difference. If 2 people claim neighbors, I'll almost certainly believe them (depending on who does it, but even then...)

The difference is that if two people are masons, they are town, so if we believe two people who claim to be masons, they are ICs. If two people are neighbors, they can be any combination of town and scum, so if we believe two people who claim to be neighbors, we haven't accomplished anything at all.

[LaLight]

I don't really get the difference. If 2 people claim neighbors, I'll almost certainly believe them (depending on who does it, but even then...)

The difference is that if two people are masons, they are town, so if we believe two people who claim to be masons, they are ICs. If two people are neighbors, they can be any combination of town and scum, so if we believe two people who claim to be neighbors, we haven't accomplished anything at all.

Neigborizer is weak, so

[LaLight]

no, massclaim is a terrible idea

[IDontPlayThisGame]

vote: DatSwan

So do you think scum!DatSwan wanted to fake a townslip? Or are you just randomly placing a vote that makes you look all deep and mysterious?

The first one. He was in M105. If he'd only been in M108, I could understand asking the question, but it seems a bit silly to me here. I'm (clearly) willing to park my vote here for the time being.

[@DatSwan: Is "he" the right pronoun? If it isn't, sorry about that]

[Galzria]

no, massclaim is a terrible idea

Yes. Although there should be thought D3 of a Neighborizer claiming if they successfully neighborized town as that will create two IC's at a midway/late point in the game - reducing the lynch pool by which to find any potential remaining scum.

There's a thought that they could claim D2 with target choice since there's no Redirctor - thus converting them into an effective cop for the night: But between scum's potential ability to Roleblock them - or simply just to kill them to frame the target - it's really not a great idea.

They could claim now and become a temporary IC (scum would need to fake a long, dangerous game to fake claim neighborizer here) - but D1 that's not really all that valuable.

[Awaclus]

As it turns out, the neighborizer is weak which means everything I said about it was not entirely accurate.

[Awaclus]

In that case, what about having the Neighborizer claim who they're going to target, then if they die, we have either outed scum or scum has killed the Neighborizer which is about as good as having an IC?

[faust]

In that case, what about having the Neighborizer claim who they're going to target, then if they die, we have either outed scum or scum has killed the Neighborizer which is about as good as having an IC?

Are you serious about this? This is an awful plan.

What we could consider is everyone claiming D2 who they will target if they are the Neighborizer. But since Neighborizer can't target tonight, it's not really relevant and merely disctracting right now.

[faust]

Silly me for thinking Awaclus was trying to breadcrumb Neighborizer.

[Swowl]

vote: DatSwan

So do you think scum!DatSwan wanted to fake a townslip? Or are you just randomly placing a vote that makes you look all deep and mysterious?

The first one. He was in M105. If he'd only been in M108, I could understand asking the question, but it seems a bit silly to me here. I'm (clearly) willing to park my vote here for the time being.


[@DatSwan: Is "he" the right pronoun? If it isn't, sorry about that]

"He" is correct!

[Swowl]

also I forgot I was still doing this

unvote

[gkrieg13]

/tag

[faust]

also I forgot I was still doing this

unvote

Do you also have something useful to add to the discussion?

[faust]

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

[AndrewisFTTW]

For the 'lot of time on your hands': I don't, but I'm here anyways. Like I said, I'm open to recommendations for a better hobby.

To elaborate on this: if anybody wants to do my homework for me that was due last Sunday, shoot me a PM!

if it's math u need to do it urself because it's important to learn and if it's not math then i don't feel like it

What type of homework and what level of difficulty?

CS. I should probably read the whole spec since it's now over 3 days late. The class is like getting used to Linux & Emacs and that sorta stuff. This assignment is more about learning debugging and some C coding (I guess). As for schadd: I'll probably just look at past students' work that is now up on Github and follow along with what they do, meaning I don't learn it myself. Math HW I'll just be googling, then cramming the learning before tests. Has worked thusly far with mixed results.

Neighbors aren't masons, they only confirm having that ability.

I don't really get the difference. If 2 people claim neighbors, I'll almost certainly believe them (depending on who does it, but even then...)

Prediction: There is exactly one scum among the three people who just called Skumpy town.

(and implied quoting of the 2.7, Galzria, and chairs reads too that I don't feel like copyPasting)

First off, I love how it's gone:
Skumpy: Anyone wanna talk setup?
3 people: You're town, AKA, No, now shuddup.

Secondly, well done you 3! Congratulations on quickly realizing what will soon be obvious for everybody and thanks for reminding me how badly my first Skum game will go!

Nextly @faust and the above prediction:
You know what's really annoying? The fact that I agree with you. And the fact that I'm so tempted to vote for you because I don't like it when people agree with what I'm thinking. But I've also got a feeling that you're going to be town whenever I read you as scum and vice versa. So I won't vote for you now (meaning that you're scum, so I will vote, meaning you're town, and now I'm in a perpetual loop). Question: Does this mean you're also giving me towncred? Or just that there's 1 scum in the above 3 (which I'm now realizing isn't surprising since you voted Galzria already. Again.)

Well, it looks like the RVS is starting to wear out and I need to start making reads. I've got a couple suspects in mind. Not feeling like elaborating because I want some more info before I cast my first vote.

And finally, looks like my pledge to not text-wall got shattered after like 5 posts. No surprises there, I expected it. Still procrastinating on the HW, feel free to keep conversing with me! Happy to give prompt responses to any direct questions!

Kicking myself again for reading a whole Skumpy post that contains nothing important.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

Well, I think Skumpy covered set-up well enough, I agree with you that discussing Neighborizer is a waste of time today, and I don't think much else has happened.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

Well, I think Skumpy covered set-up well enough, I agree with you that discussing Neighborizer is a waste of time today, and I don't think much else has happened.

Yeahhh... I got nothing.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

Yeah I’m here and up to date. I just don’t feel like I have any useful info at this time. I’ll try to contribute more.

[faust]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

[faust]

And Andrew already is! *slow clap*

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

[AndrewisFTTW]

And Andrew already is! *slow clap*

Thank you! Thank you all! Thank you!

[chairs]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Don't tell me what to say, oh don't tell me what to do. Just let me be myself, that's all I ask of you!

#toomuchmusic

I think the faust vote is a bad call here but I mean I get it. I do think faust was a little bit of a jerk with this post:

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

I just think faust is also not coming off scum at the moment (not that we have much to go on yet).

[Galzria]

 Faust is town.

[Galzria]

also I forgot I was still doing this

unvote

Why did you feel the need to unvote? It was an RVS vote, yes? Do you believe you have a better place your vote or did you simply not want it on anybody? If the former: who? If the latter: why?

[Galzria]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

[Galzria]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

[2.71828.....]

Faust is town.

2 townies figured out. Doing pretty well so far

[2.71828.....]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

Good point. Vote: IDPTG

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)
2. As it is not close dead line, why would you want to train someone without much evidence said person is scum
4. As it stands rn, Faust is almost as good of a dylan. At least when it comes to scummy evidence
3. wording seemed rude to me, I don't like being told what to do. So why not vote him.

[Skumpy]

In other news, scum is totally hiding in people who aren't voting yet (looking at you, e)

Sorry Andrew. maybe this will be better:

After carefully weighing my options, I'm going to begin my mis-voting this game with a Vote: 2.718 (what is your preferred number of digits when people vote for you? Also hi)

Above feels very WIFOMmy to me. And that's pretty much it. Nothing else so far from him feels particularly townie.



Other people on who I've been looking at:

DatSwan: I don't know what to make of the first vote for me. I get it's RVS, I get it's supposed to funny, but I'm an interesting choice after you kept trying to get me lynched my first game. On the other hand, the setup post seems townie while the non-response to IDPTG does not.  Having said all that: I'm going to come out and say right now I don't want to or plan on lynching Swan on Day 1. Reasons I don't want to share for a while.

Raptor: I thought I'd be able to figure you out early based on knowing your 105scum play. I have not. I don't know if it's slightly more confidence as scum or a good coach or just plain town. Also wanting to leave you alone for a while.

Chairs: Agreed with faust, this isn't the scum Chairs I know. Still random, but it's not forced awkward random.

Faust & Galzria: There's something that feels off in this old married couple. Like faust is trying to start up the bickering and Galzria is shutting it down. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a scum coming out of this pair. It just doesn't feel natural. At the very least, I'm not joining everybody in townreading faust. Then again, not sure I ever will. I think for the most part, faust has been saying accurate stuff, but as I said before, that doesn't make me trust him more.


PPE Raptor's stuff (this took a while to write and edit)

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

[Swowl]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

Am I mis understanding something?
Dude flips a dice 3 times and selects 3 town PRs. Is that not accurate?

[Swowl]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

Am I mis understanding something?
Dude flips a dice 3 times and selects 3 town PRs. Is that not accurate?

dice=coin.
Not going to even say DAMA, just assuming it is implied here.

[Swowl]

also I forgot I was still doing this

unvote

Why did you feel the need to unvote? It was an RVS vote, yes? Do you believe you have a better place your vote or did you simply not want it on anybody? If the former: who? If the latter: why?

I don't like leaving RVS votes on people after I believe they are town.
When I did it, I didn't have an opinion. Now I think he is town. So no mas vote.
But you already knew that. You are just bored

[IDontPlayThisGame]

specifically, the PRs are chosen by the algorithm:
>flip a 3-sided coin, heads means pick 2, tails means pick 3, wings means pick 4
>if the sum is lower than 4 or higher than 8 try again


N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

[Galzria]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

Am I mis understanding something?
Dude flips a dice 3 times and selects 3 town PRs. Is that not accurate?

Could be 2. Could be 4. Could be 3.

[Swowl]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

Am I mis understanding something?
Dude flips a dice 3 times and selects 3 town PRs. Is that not accurate?

Could be 2. Could be 4. Could be 3.

Well I just re read the set up and that is exactly what it says. Pretty much can disregard all the logic from that entire post.

[Galzria]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

Am I mis understanding something?
Dude flips a dice 3 times and selects 3 town PRs. Is that not accurate?

Could be 2. Could be 4. Could be 3.

What we DO know is that the sum total for all town PR's cannot value above 8 or below 4 - regardless of the number of PR's in existence.

[Swowl]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And I found a post (reply #111) that I'm glad I read again because of the way it was formatted.

DatSwan: why do you assume three roles were picked?

Am I mis understanding something?
Dude flips a dice 3 times and selects 3 town PRs. Is that not accurate?

Could be 2. Could be 4. Could be 3.

What we DO know is that the sum total for all town PR's cannot value above 8 or below 4 - regardless of the number of PR's in existence.

Yeah I get it now sorry.
When I was doing the write up on my phone I was thinking the rule was "flip three times and pick a *1,2,or 3* in which the 1,2, or 3 were correlating to the value of the ability (which is why I wrote out all the options as 1a/1b etc etc.

Further look I know see that not only is that not right, but it says heads is 2, tails is 3 and whatever is 4 (not 1, 2, and 3).

Don't do drunk math kids. Leave it to the professionals.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

[2.71828.....]

In other news, scum is totally hiding in people who aren't voting yet (looking at you, e)

Sorry Andrew. maybe this will be better:

After carefully weighing my options, I'm going to begin my mis-voting this game with a Vote: 2.718 (what is your preferred number of digits when people vote for you? Also hi)

Above feels very WIFOMmy to me. And that's pretty much it. Nothing else so far from him feels particularly townie.

You do know I was talking about myself, right? It was actually a meta reference to one of my first scum games where I was caught because I was frozen all D1 and not voting anyone. Also, am I WIFOMing myself? I am confused

Also, I have no preference on digits.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, am I WIFOMing myself?

That's the real WIFOM right there.

[faust]

I think the faust vote is a bad call here but I mean I get it. I do think faust was a little bit of a jerk with this post:

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

Well maybe. But it did spark some discussion, and we desperately needed that. Sorry if my methods are sometimes a bit heavy-handed

[faust]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

[faust]

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Well I was. So what?

2. As it is not close dead line, why would you want to train someone without much evidence said person is scum

So stuff will happen and we don't stall out with everyone saying "well I don't have anything worthwhile to post".

4. As it stands rn, Faust is almost as good of a dylan. At least when it comes to scummy evidence

What evidence?

3. wording seemed rude to me, I don't like being told what to do. So why not vote him.

Fair enough, but that is not really a game-related reason.

[faust]

Also, am I WIFOMing myself? I am confused

A common result of being WIFOMed.

[SpaceAnemone]

Oops... I'm prod-worthy :-(

Not up to date at all yet, but will catch up later. Currently need to to persuade my local network that the end of the world didn't happen just because our building switched around all the static IPs in the night...

[LaLight]

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

[faust]

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

[LaLight]

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

I think he is acting weird compared to other games is all. Do you think Dylan is scum? I am not opposed to voting for Dylan, but I don't remember a single thing he said

[faust]

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

I think he is acting weird compared to other games is all. Do you think Dylan is scum? I am not opposed to voting for Dylan, but I don't remember a single thing he said

Well he has only two posts, so you did not miss much. None of them contains even a hint of a read. Early on that was sufficient reason to vote already. Now the case is strengthened by LAL.

[LaLight]

okay, let's do this then. vote: Dylan32

[LaLight]

every single time in every single game I am afraid to sheep you faust, because you are manipulative and good as scum

[IDontPlayThisGame]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

[LaLight]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

following LAL in a situation like this helps put the person into the spotlight so they come and say something meaningful instead of hiding

[Awaclus]

Why are we already talking about lurker lynches? The game just started like a couple of days ago, there should be enough time to get a lynch that doesn't suck.

[LaLight]

Why are we already talking about lurker lynches? The game just started like a couple of days ago, there should be enough time to get a lynch that doesn't suck.

any idea?

[Awaclus]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

[faust]

every single time in every single game I am afraid to sheep you faust, because you are manipulative and good as scum

Thank you. I'm not scum this time though.

[faust]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

Let's be clear: You are voting for Andrew because he's posting very little and doesn't have content, but you don't want to do a lurker lynch...?

[faust]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

[Awaclus]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

[IDontPlayThisGame]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

Let's be clear: You are voting for Andrew because he's posting very little and doesn't have content, but you don't want to do a lurker lynch...?

I'm voting Andrew for posting and not saying anything. I'm not voting Dylan for not posting and not saying anything.

Also, let's clarify this: to me, a lurker is someone who doesn't post. For now, Andrew's posted enough for me not to place him in that category.

PPE: 1

[LaLight]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

[Awaclus]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

[Galzria]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Do you believe scum responds with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest"?

[Galzria]

Why are we already talking about lurker lynches? The game just started like a couple of days ago, there should be enough time to get a lynch that doesn't suck.

Because the game started on Tuesday. It's now been three days, and we're headed into the weekend - a time that is consistently the slowest for online forum mafia games. When we return on Monday, the deadline will be a day away.

[Awaclus]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Do you believe scum responds with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest"?

Apparently.

[Galzria]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

[Galzria]

DatSwan and I leave for a conference tomorrow. We will be there until late Tuesday and will have limited access. I'll post in the V/LA thread as well.

[faust]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

Let's be clear: You are voting for Andrew because he's posting very little and doesn't have content, but you don't want to do a lurker lynch...?

I'm voting Andrew for posting and not saying anything. I'm not voting Dylan for not posting and not saying anything.

Also, let's clarify this: to me, a lurker is someone who doesn't post. For now, Andrew's posted enough for me not to place him in that category.

PPE: 1

I see. I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to read (post and say) less than I have or post and (say less than I have).

FWIW, Dylan did not say anything in the posts that he did have.

[faust]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Do you believe scum responds with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest"?

Why do you continue to ask questions you already seem to know the answers to?

[Awaclus]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

[Galzria]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Do you believe scum responds with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest"?

Why do you continue to ask questions you already seem to know the answers to?

Because I don't believe that's a legitimate reason. Why do you?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I see. I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to read (post and say) less than I have or post and (say less than I have).

FWIW, Dylan did not say anything in the posts that he did have.

Sorry for the confusion. It was meant to be read as the second one.

Andrew hasn't said anything either.

[faust]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Do you believe scum responds with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest"?

Why do you continue to ask questions you already seem to know the answers to?

Because I don't believe that's a legitimate reason. Why do you?

I just don't think it's good practice to phrase your views as suggestive questions. I'd prefer you simply state them outright.

[faust]

I see. I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to read (post and say) less than I have or post and (say less than I have).

FWIW, Dylan did not say anything in the posts that he did have.

Sorry for the confusion. It was meant to be read as the second one.

Andrew hasn't said anything either.

Maybe. But you do acknowledge that my vote for Dylan is just as good as your vote for Andrew?

[faust]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

That statement is still true if you substitute "scum" by "town".

[Awaclus]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

That statement is still true if you substitute "scum" by "town".

Town can get an advantage by not sharing too much of their thought process.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I see. I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to read (post and say) less than I have or post and (say less than I have).

FWIW, Dylan did not say anything in the posts that he did have.

Sorry for the confusion. It was meant to be read as the second one.

Andrew hasn't said anything either.

Maybe. But you do acknowledge that my vote for Dylan is just as good as your vote for Andrew?

Is that your acknowledgement that you perceive my vote for Andrew to be just as good as your vote for Dylan? I hold that my vote for Andrew is better than your vote for Dylan. I acknowledge that we're both voting for people who haven't posted any content, however I'm more comfortable voting for the person with more posts.

And of course Awaclus would say that.

PPE: 2

[Galzria]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

This is demonstrably and historically false in -most- (not all) cases. In most cases scum does enough to not be the target of LAL, while participating enough to make sure they have opinions posted and varied in nature. Most scum tend to fall below average in post count, but not at the bottom. Rarely does scum want to be the leading voice in the game pushing lynches through that they know will be mislynches - and this is especially true D1, when the odds of a lynch falling on town without their extreme help is particularly high anyway.

Further, even if scum is choosing to be a loud voice in the game, they're creating far more interactions than the quieter ones, increasing both the likelihood that they're caught down the line, and increasing the chances we can follow a trail from them back to their partners.

Yes, scum CAN be a top poster and a loud voice D1 - but it's far more likely to come from town, and even if it IS from scum they're generally not the best lynch choice anyway.

With that said, vote: LaLight. Scummiest (imo) of the "middle" posters (LaLight, e, Swan, Skumpy, IDPTG, Chairs).

On the lurker side, I still think Raptor is scummiest - his responses have felt on point identical to me from his last game when he was scum - but I have no basis on which to judge his town play. Dylan could be scum, but there's nothing there to judge by. Andrew could be scum, but I'm withholding judgment for now.

Faust is town. Skumpy is townie, but feels forced (he did last game too, and like Raptor, I have no basis for scum!Skumpy). Everybody else is middling to me.

I will not lynch Faust or Skumpy today. e would probably be my next most "don't want to lynch".

[Awaclus]

This is demonstrably and historically false in -most- (not all) cases. In most cases scum does enough to not be the target of LAL, while participating enough to make sure they have opinions posted and varied in nature. Most scum tend to fall below average in post count, but not at the bottom. Rarely does scum want to be the leading voice in the game pushing lynches through that they know will be mislynches - and this is especially true D1, when the odds of a lynch falling on town without their extreme help is particularly high anyway.

That's either a result of poor scum play or poor town play. If town is playing well, scum has to post a lot in order to change the course of the game to their liking.

Further, even if scum is choosing to be a loud voice in the game, they're creating far more interactions than the quieter ones, increasing both the likelihood that they're caught down the line, and increasing the chances we can follow a trail from them back to their partners.

It doesn't increase the likelihood that they're caught if their narrative is solid. They are completely in control of what they post.

Faust is town.

More like your scum partner.

[Swowl]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

This is demonstrably and historically false in -most- (not all) cases. In most cases scum does enough to not be the target of LAL, while participating enough to make sure they have opinions posted and varied in nature. Most scum tend to fall below average in post count, but not at the bottom. Rarely does scum want to be the leading voice in the game pushing lynches through that they know will be mislynches - and this is especially true D1, when the odds of a lynch falling on town without their extreme help is particularly high anyway.

Further, even if scum is choosing to be a loud voice in the game, they're creating far more interactions than the quieter ones, increasing both the likelihood that they're caught down the line, and increasing the chances we can follow a trail from them back to their partners.

Yes, scum CAN be a top poster and a loud voice D1 - but it's far more likely to come from town, and even if it IS from scum they're generally not the best lynch choice anyway.

With that said, vote: LaLight. Scummiest (imo) of the "middle" posters (LaLight, e, Swan, Skumpy, IDPTG, Chairs).

On the lurker side, I still think Raptor is scummiest - his responses have felt on point identical to me from his last game when he was scum - but I have no basis on which to judge his town play. Dylan could be scum, but there's nothing there to judge by. Andrew could be scum, but I'm withholding judgment for now.

Faust is town. Skumpy is townie, but feels forced (he did last game too, and like Raptor, I have no basis for scum!Skumpy). Everybody else is middling to me.

I will not lynch Faust or Skumpy today. e would probably be my next most "don't want to lynch".

Why do you think Faust is town?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Well I was. So what?

2. As it is not close dead line, why would you want to train someone without much evidence said person is scum

So stuff will happen and we don't stall out with everyone saying "well I don't have anything worthwhile to post".

4. As it stands rn, Faust is almost as good of a dylan. At least when it comes to scummy evidence

What evidence?

3. wording seemed rude to me, I don't like being told what to do. So why not vote him.

Fair enough, but that is not really a game-related reason.

1) to me thats a scummy move
2) I did something, voted you.
4) my point exactly, thanks.
3) its all game related.. because thats what you said in the game.

PPE: 2

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

Good point. Vote: IDPTG

Lame. Don't like it. I feel like I hear someone complain about how slow D1 is every game.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Are you saying we shouldn't be scumreading inexperienced players?

[AndrewisFTTW]

In other news, scum is totally hiding in people who aren't voting yet (looking at you, e)

Sorry Andrew. maybe this will be better:

After carefully weighing my options, I'm going to begin my mis-voting this game with a Vote: 2.718 (what is your preferred number of digits when people vote for you? Also hi)

Above feels very WIFOMmy to me. And that's pretty much it. Nothing else so far from him feels particularly townie.



Other people on who I've been looking at:

DatSwan: I don't know what to make of the first vote for me. I get it's RVS, I get it's supposed to funny, but I'm an interesting choice after you kept trying to get me lynched my first game. On the other hand, the setup post seems townie while the non-response to IDPTG does not.  Having said all that: I'm going to come out and say right now I don't want to or plan on lynching Swan on Day 1. Reasons I don't want to share for a while.

Raptor: I thought I'd be able to figure you out early based on knowing your 105scum play. I have not. I don't know if it's slightly more confidence as scum or a good coach or just plain town. Also wanting to leave you alone for a while.

Chairs: Agreed with faust, this isn't the scum Chairs I know. Still random, but it's not forced awkward random.

Faust & Galzria: There's something that feels off in this old married couple. Like faust is trying to start up the bickering and Galzria is shutting it down. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a scum coming out of this pair. It just doesn't feel natural. At the very least, I'm not joining everybody in townreading faust. Then again, not sure I ever will. I think for the most part, faust has been saying accurate stuff, but as I said before, that doesn't make me trust him more.


PPE Raptor's stuff (this took a while to write and edit)

Very good, thank you! I'm glad you're here to make these quality posts!

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Whatever faust says can and will be used against him in the court of Awaclus.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I see. I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to read (post and say) less than I have or post and (say less than I have).

FWIW, Dylan did not say anything in the posts that he did have.

Sorry for the confusion. It was meant to be read as the second one.

Andrew hasn't said anything either.

I'm saying things! It's just been a hectic couple of days for me.

[Galzria]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

This is demonstrably and historically false in -most- (not all) cases. In most cases scum does enough to not be the target of LAL, while participating enough to make sure they have opinions posted and varied in nature. Most scum tend to fall below average in post count, but not at the bottom. Rarely does scum want to be the leading voice in the game pushing lynches through that they know will be mislynches - and this is especially true D1, when the odds of a lynch falling on town without their extreme help is particularly high anyway.

Further, even if scum is choosing to be a loud voice in the game, they're creating far more interactions than the quieter ones, increasing both the likelihood that they're caught down the line, and increasing the chances we can follow a trail from them back to their partners.

Yes, scum CAN be a top poster and a loud voice D1 - but it's far more likely to come from town, and even if it IS from scum they're generally not the best lynch choice anyway.

With that said, vote: LaLight. Scummiest (imo) of the "middle" posters (LaLight, e, Swan, Skumpy, IDPTG, Chairs).

On the lurker side, I still think Raptor is scummiest - his responses have felt on point identical to me from his last game when he was scum - but I have no basis on which to judge his town play. Dylan could be scum, but there's nothing there to judge by. Andrew could be scum, but I'm withholding judgment for now.

Faust is town. Skumpy is townie, but feels forced (he did last game too, and like Raptor, I have no basis for scum!Skumpy). Everybody else is middling to me.

I will not lynch Faust or Skumpy today. e would probably be my next most "don't want to lynch".

Why do you think Faust is town?

Personal opinion I suppose. Faust is a good player, but in LOST one of the things that persistently bothered me all game about him (and it was part of the final case on him) was that there were certain town!Faust ticks that were missing. I believe that he was less available than normal that game, yes. And I believe that impacted his play. I also believe he is certainly capable of making scum adjustments to match those town!ticks following a scum game where they were missing. I just don't believe that scum!Faust has done so here. He sounds and feels more normal to me, and it doesn't feel forced or faked.

[Awaclus]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Whatever faust says can and will be used against him in the court of Awaclus.

No, not really. I don't have to use anything against faust, he's scum until he proves that he's town.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest.

Let me rephrase: I'd lynch faust for the time being.

Vote: faust

why not Galzria?

Because Galzria didn't reply to my post with "I mean, if you want tomorrow to go even slower, sure, be my guest".

Whatever faust says can and will be used against him in the court of Awaclus.

No, not really. I don't have to use anything against faust, he's scum until he proves that he's town.

SO glad this is a democracy.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Are you saying we shouldn't be scumreading inexperienced players?

I don’t think you should tell someone how to vote. Especially without reason.

[Awaclus]

SO glad this is a democracy.

But that's how it works. I can vote for him for no reason, he can't remove that vote unless he convinces me to remove it.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Are you saying we shouldn't be scumreading inexperienced players?

I don’t think you should tell someone how to vote. Especially without reason.

Sorry I misread what you said originally. Disregard.

[faust]

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

That statement is still true if you substitute "scum" by "town".

Town can get an advantage by not sharing too much of their thought process.

That statement is still true if you substitute "town" by "scum".

[Swowl]

SO glad this is a democracy.

But that's how it works. I can vote for him for no reason, he can't remove that vote unless he convinces me to remove it.

Fair enough, but you could make that statement for any player. Why did you choose Faust? Why not his "potential" PIC, Galz?

[SpaceAnemone]

Nope, this is our first encounter. Greetings! Experience of relevant nature = 1 game (105) in which I kept screaming that I have no idea what I'm doing, then stumbled into a victory.

Ah, cool.. I very rarely get around to reading games I'm not playing in, so you're still an unknown!

There's a setup (that I now think I actually do understand), let's see if anything can be done with it.

Yeah, I usually love mathsing out the setup, looking at distributions of probabilities and everything :-)

It seems a lot tougher for scum to come up with a plan than in my first game (which I am going to keep referencing because I have no other good sources, apologies in advance. The "I'm not the person to decide if a massclaim is good" is a tribute to that) because they don't really know what PRs are in play.

Yeah, I'm just troubled how you keep talking about planning for what scum would do, not any cool interactions that might help town. I know you said early on that you were sure you were going to be scum and therefore planned accordingly, but I still find it odd that someone with so much homework procrastination time hasn't now gone back and looked at things more from a townie point of view rather than keeping on mentioning the scum-sided view of the setup.

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey @schadd :-) hullo!

You said in the setup post that the roles summing up to whatever number you've picked are chosen from the list of six options, with no repeats. Were they randomly chosen with equal prior probability of coming up, or something else? Might you specify that part of the algorithm? Thanks!

10 decide to choose 2 roles, 3 roles or 4 roles
20 choose n roles, no repeats; any particular combination of n roles is equally likely (nothing happens here to regulate the sum)
30 if the sum of the role numbers isn't more than 3 and less than 9 scrap it and goto 10

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

DatSwan (1): Dylan32
LaLight (2): SpaceAnemone, Galzria
Dylan32 (3): faust, AndrewisFTTW, LaLight
SpaceAnemone (1): Chairs
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Skumpy
AndrewisFTTW (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Not Voting (1): DatSwan

[Awaclus]

Fair enough, but you could make that statement for any player. Why did you choose Faust? Why not his "potential" PIC, Galz?

Because reasons. I could go for Galz if others prefer him over faust.

[Skumpy]

Lots of new posts to consider, don't have the energy or willingness to sit down and carefully comb through everything.

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

This is demonstrably and historically false in -most- (not all) cases. In most cases scum does enough to not be the target of LAL, while participating enough to make sure they have opinions posted and varied in nature. Most scum tend to fall below average in post count, but not at the bottom. Rarely does scum want to be the leading voice in the game pushing lynches through that they know will be mislynches - and this is especially true D1, when the odds of a lynch falling on town without their extreme help is particularly high anyway.

Further, even if scum is choosing to be a loud voice in the game, they're creating far more interactions than the quieter ones, increasing both the likelihood that they're caught down the line, and increasing the chances we can follow a trail from them back to their partners.

Yes, scum CAN be a top poster and a loud voice D1 - but it's far more likely to come from town, and even if it IS from scum they're generally not the best lynch choice anyway.

With that said, vote: LaLight. Scummiest (imo) of the "middle" posters (LaLight, e, Swan, Skumpy, IDPTG, Chairs).

On the lurker side, I still think Raptor is scummiest - his responses have felt on point identical to me from his last game when he was scum - but I have no basis on which to judge his town play. Dylan could be scum, but there's nothing there to judge by. Andrew could be scum, but I'm withholding judgment for now.

Faust is town. Skumpy is townie, but feels forced (he did last game too, and like Raptor, I have no basis for scum!Skumpy). Everybody else is middling to me.

I will not lynch Faust or Skumpy today. e would probably be my next most "don't want to lynch".

There's a lot here. Lots of thoughts come to mind.

1. I'm new, but I don't like LALling on day 1, if ever. Especially when the guy hasn't even been on f.ds in 2 days (what if he's really dead? How would we know?) I like the IDPTG stance on Dylan/Andrew (more on that in a sec)

2. Stuff on scum being loud vs middle: I'm inclined to agree on this stuff. But small problem that's actually not small at all. Who falls into your 'loud so probably not scum' category? Apparently, you, faust, and Awaclus. Would you all be posting this much if you were scum? I think I know the answer to that: yes, yes you would. Now if it was Swan or Raptor being really active and doing a lot of live discussing, that might be different. Point is, everybody's been posting an amount so far that I would not be surprised by were they scum (am I extrapolating? Yes. Do I know everybody well enough? No. Do I not care and am just saying that because I like to talk in absolutes? Absolutely!)

3: The Skumpy files: You said I'm townie, and I'm still offended because I want to be town. On the 'no basis for Skummy Skumpy' - here's your basis: anything that's not this. I know I'm not getting lynched today, so I guess I have time yet to convince you more.

More random thoughts:


Andrew: It was a lot of empty posting early. And you're not as belligerent or aggressive as I remember you being. Only reason I'm not voting for you now is for the 2.7 accusation, since you're the only person besides me who is currently wary of him. But that doesn't really convince me there's definitely a town amongst you two.

Awaclus: I was kind of expecting to have been voted for him by now, I am kinda surprised he has not addressed me at all yet (Yes, I know exactly what this means his next post is going to be. I am willing to live with those consequences). In addition to me being skum, I was also expecting to be on the other faction before this game started. And since I'm town, I just feel like it's all part of the plan for me to be against him. Concerns here are further reinforced by his determination there's a scum in faust and galz, which I understand. And speaking of which:

Faust and Galzria: I don't know how else to put this: I am extremely scared that there is a scum or 2 here, and that I have no way of ever figuring it out except by lynching, which means potentially mislynching them. There's suddenly no animosity here and they seem to be in unison on everything, which is an extremely stark contrast to 105. I think I want to leave them alone in hopes that scum will save me the trouble and nightkill them (faust I can't lynch because I can't read him, Galzria will probably be my default-lynch-if-everything-is-going-badly-and-I-need-some-explanation-why), but I beseech you all to keep this in mind: when there's trouble and mayhem afoot, it's coming from the head.

I feel so confident while I'm writing this stuff, and then I realize that makes it, what, 6 or 7 people I've accused now? If anybody else wants me to put some incorrect heat on them, give me a ring, happy to oblige!

[SpaceAnemone]

Reread IDP expecting to want to vote him through inactivity, but I'm not feeling that right now.
Skumpy is entertaining and new, so he can stay.
Galz and faust are fine as they are.
Awaclus is being Awaclusy.
Could quite happily vote Andrew; his contributions don't have much content. I tend to scum-read him anyway, though.
LL is being quiet mostly. His talking at corss-purposes to Awaclus about the weak neighbourizer make me think they're not a scum team.
Swan's fakable townslip then weird breakdown of not-the-setup are probably more from inattention than scumminess for now, I think. I was scum with him last time I played, and he doesn't feel quite the same.
Dylan isn't here. I usually like Dylan and his playstyle, so I'm happy not lynching him yet.
Raptor needs to put in some personal text somewhere that lets us isolate his posts for targeted re-reads!
chairs is lurky as usual. THe part where he's voting to lynch me is less good. Not averse to returning the favour, but there are better targets for now.
e is talkative. Would be nice if he engaged with discussions more. But the same complaint could be made about me too.

I'll vote: Andrew for tonight.

[Skumpy]

It seems a lot tougher for scum to come up with a plan than in my first game (which I am going to keep referencing because I have no other good sources, apologies in advance. The "I'm not the person to decide if a massclaim is good" is a tribute to that) because they don't really know what PRs are in play.

Yeah, I'm just troubled how you keep talking about planning for what scum would do, not any cool interactions that might help town. I know you said early on that you were sure you were going to be scum and therefore planned accordingly, but I still find it odd that someone with so much homework procrastination time hasn't now gone back and looked at things more from a townie point of view rather than keeping on mentioning the scum-sided view of the setup.

Yay! Accusations!

Firstly, good points have been made about the setup since. Just wanna throw it out there that I like faust's neighborizer plan for day2.

I wasn't preparing for skum setup strategy before the game start btw, setup stuff for me started after PM's were sent. The point is when I'm thinking about the setup: what do I know about town? Nothing - every role has a 50/50 shot (unless I'm a PR of course. But I'm definitely not one or anything). What do I know about scum? That thanks to my remembrance of dice games in 3rd grade, the middle values are more likely. The odds seem pretty good for 6 and very good for 6,7,8. I imagine that the best way to approach things is to assume the most likely scenario is indeed what is happening, and in this case, the most likely scenario(s) dictate we have a roleblocker. That should impact what town decides to do.

Honestly, the only decision town needs to make day 1 is whether to massclaim or not (and obviously it's not happening at this point, I get that). I don't see value in only partial claiming for any roles, it comes down to a desperate 50/50 on whether we have a doctor or not. The best part about mass claiming is that gives us potential to clear a bunch of townies. There is nothing scum can to do predict a safeclaim, unless they wait until the very end. If there's somebody who'll be on the chopping block with 5 hours to go and has to claim a role to save themselves, now we have to scramble. And quite frankly, I like having an IC around to manage the game and keep people in check.

The setup post anyways was more about me rejecting RVS than anything, I knew there wasn't going to be a massclaim. Until your last post, I hadn't thought about setup, I felt there was enough to go off to start casting votes. If we're still alive for it, you can believe the first thing I'll be doing day 2 is taking another look at the setup and situation.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Reread IDP expecting to want to vote him through inactivity, but I'm not feeling that right now.

Did you expect that because of this game or previous games with me?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Reread IDP expecting to want to vote him through inactivity, but I'm not feeling that right now.
Skumpy is entertaining and new, so he can stay.
Galz and faust are fine as they are.
Awaclus is being Awaclusy.
Could quite happily vote Andrew; his contributions don't have much content. I tend to scum-read him anyway, though.
LL is being quiet mostly. His talking at corss-purposes to Awaclus about the weak neighbourizer make me think they're not a scum team.
Swan's fakable townslip then weird breakdown of not-the-setup are probably more from inattention than scumminess for now, I think. I was scum with him last time I played, and he doesn't feel quite the same.
Dylan isn't here. I usually like Dylan and his playstyle, so I'm happy not lynching him yet.
Raptor needs to put in some personal text somewhere that lets us isolate his posts for targeted re-reads!
chairs is lurky as usual. THe part where he's voting to lynch me is less good. Not averse to returning the favour, but there are better targets for now.
e is talkative. Would be nice if he engaged with discussions more. But the same complaint could be made about me too.

I'll vote: Andrew for tonight.

If you want content all you gotta do is ask. Voting for me implies that you're scumreading me. Is that true?

[schadd]

Vote count 1.2

DatSwan (1): Dylan32
AndrewisFTTW (2): IDontPlayThisGame, SpaceAnemone
LaLight (1): Galzria
Dylan32 (3): faust, AndrewisFTTW, LaLight
SpaceAnemone (1): chairs
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (1): Skumpy

not voting (1): DatSwan

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends tuesday, november 7th at 21:00 forum time.

mod notes

• dylan has been prooded.
• galzria & datswan are VLA.

mod quotes

What happens if a neighborizer gets roleblocked?

the action fails; no neighborhood opens, no dying happens.

To elaborate on this: if anybody wants to do my homework for me that was due last Sunday, shoot me a PM!

if it's math u need to do it urself because it's important to learn and if it's not math then i don't feel like it

Question - since this set up is different then 108 (no drafting) did skum find out about their PRs in like the “pre-twilight” game stage with time to talk about their game plan or after the game started?

scum were made aware of their factional abilities in N0 if they have them.

Hey @schadd :-) hullo!

You said in the setup post that the roles summing up to whatever number you've picked are chosen from the list of six options, with no repeats. Were they randomly chosen with equal prior probability of coming up, or something else? Might you specify that part of the algorithm? Thanks!

10 decide to choose 2 roles, 3 roles or 4 roles
20 choose n roles, no repeats; any particular combination of n roles is equally likely (nothing happens here to regulate the sum)
30 if the sum of the role numbers isn't more than 3 and less than 9 scrap it and goto 10

[faust]

I'll do a reread soon if I have time.

Do you really need to reread here, or are you just trying to give the illusion of participation? There's what? 100 posts so far? This has been the slowest D1 in my memory.

Good point. Vote: IDPTG

Lame. Don't like it. I feel like I hear someone complain about how slow D1 is every game.

I feel like every game these days has horribly slow D1s. Especially those where there isn't much setup talk to be done.

[faust]

Hey @schadd :-) hullo!

You said in the setup post that the roles summing up to whatever number you've picked are chosen from the list of six options, with no repeats. Were they randomly chosen with equal prior probability of coming up, or something else? Might you specify that part of the algorithm? Thanks!

10 decide to choose 2 roles, 3 roles or 4 roles
20 choose n roles, no repeats; any particular combination of n roles is equally likely (nothing happens here to regulate the sum)
30 if the sum of the role numbers isn't more than 3 and less than 9 scrap it and goto 10

It's interesting that this algorithm makes it so not all numbers of roles are equally likely.

For 2 roles, there are (6 choose 2) = 15 possible picks. Out of these, 5 lead to termination. I.e. if 2 is chosen in step 10, then there's a 1/3 chance of reset.
For 3 roles, there is no combination that causes a reset.
For 4 roles, there are also 15 possible picks. Total sum of picks is 12, so those that are larger than 8 are exactly those where the not-chosen ones are smaller than 4, i.e. the inverse settings of the 2 role scenario. So also a 1/3 chance of reset.

The chance of 2 or 4 being chosen is thus 1/3*2/3 + 1/3*1/3*1/3*2/3+(1/3)^4*1/3*2/3+... or put differently, 2/9*sum( (1/9)^i) = 2/9*9/8=1/4.

Thus the chance of 3 roles is 50%.

[faust]

1. I'm new, but I don't like LALling on day 1, if ever. Especially when the guy hasn't even been on f.ds in 2 days (what if he's really dead? How would we know?) I like the IDPTG stance on Dylan/Andrew (more on that in a sec)

Well, worst comes to worst, I hope we get a replacement. I should note that I am specifically not voting for him because of his absence, but because of what he posted before that, which was all hollow, but not with the townie kind of vibe that Andrew gives off.

2. Stuff on scum being loud vs middle: I'm inclined to agree on this stuff. But small problem that's actually not small at all. Who falls into your 'loud so probably not scum' category? Apparently, you, faust, and Awaclus. Would you all be posting this much if you were scum? I think I know the answer to that: yes, yes you would. Now if it was Swan or Raptor being really active and doing a lot of live discussing, that might be different. Point is, everybody's been posting an amount so far that I would not be surprised by were they scum (am I extrapolating? Yes. Do I know everybody well enough? No. Do I not care and am just saying that because I like to talk in absolutes? Absolutely!)

Well, Swan has actually been more active here than in M108's D1. He's just VLA now.

Faust and Galzria: I don't know how else to put this: I am extremely scared that there is a scum or 2 here, and that I have no way of ever figuring it out except by lynching, which means potentially mislynching them. There's suddenly no animosity here and they seem to be in unison on everything, which is an extremely stark contrast to 105. I think I want to leave them alone in hopes that scum will save me the trouble and nightkill them (faust I can't lynch because I can't read him, Galzria will probably be my default-lynch-if-everything-is-going-badly-and-I-need-some-explanation-why), but I beseech you all to keep this in mind: when there's trouble and mayhem afoot, it's coming from the head.

I feel so confident while I'm writing this stuff, and then I realize that makes it, what, 6 or 7 people I've accused now? If anybody else wants me to put some incorrect heat on them, give me a ring, happy to oblige!

Well you have a way, which is seeing if we're still alive later on, and seeing if we help lynch scum, and if so, how. That is usually the best way to deal with people that you cannot get a good read on otherwise.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'm starting to feel like LaLight might be a better place to move my vote. His posts have been rather empty aside from a little bit about the Neighborizer, but that was all stuff from the Role PM rather than theory.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Right now I'm looking at lack of content rather than outright scumminess because I haven't seen anything that stands out D1. I think the longer posts will be more telling D2. Leaning town on Skumpy and DatSwan.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Well, because no one was talking, I ran some numbers on scum roles.

4: Nothing: 17.5%
5: Rolecop: 20%
6: Roleblocker: 37.5%
7: Rolecop and Roleblocker: 17.5%
8: Daytalk, Rolecop, and Roleblocker: 7.5%

Therefore,
Rolecop: 45%
Roleblocker: 62.5%
Rolecop and Roleblocker: 25%

Not entirely sure what it gets us, but it's something.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I could look into which roles we're most likely to have, but I don't know if that'll help scum more than town.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I could look into which roles we're most likely to have, but I don't know if that'll help scum more than town.

I did it anyway. They're all equally likely.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Hey raptor. Any opinions yet?

[SpaceAnemone]

Reread IDP expecting to want to vote him through inactivity, but I'm not feeling that right now.

Did you expect that because of this game or previous games with me?

I'd gotten the impression from my brief skim-read earlier that people were pointing out your inactivity/lack of content, but I didn't feel that your posts were particularly scummy-indicative when I re-read you. Which was marginally disappointing, because it would have made my job easier if there was someone being kind of clearly not-pro-town :-P

Oh, and @Andrew, you were scum in our very first encounter, so maybe you'll always be a bit scummy to me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Thus the chance of 3 roles is 50%.

Nice result :-)  schadd's method is not what I would have assumed was the most obvious way to sort out the disallowed states, so I'd have come up with different numbers without that clarification. As it is, I haven't yet had time to work the rest of the role probabilities through myself yet, which was what I wanted to do with the algorithm overall, but it looks like IDP has done a pass :-)

ur mom is an obvious way to sort out disallowed states

uhh

yeah i'm just gonna click save

[Galzria]

Oh, and @Andrew, you were scum in our very first encounter, so maybe you'll always be a bit scummy to me.

I think you're a better player than that. Skumpy doesn't like that Faust and I aren't at odds because we were so much in his first game. I would expect that line of thought from newer players. But you've been around long enough and are good enough to make adjustment; to not let past biases influence current reads.

What had Andrew said that reads scummy to you?

[Galzria]

To make that a little more clear:

I don't believe that you, Space, find Andrew scummy just because your first game with him he was scum. That's a weak reason. Tell me why, here, he's LIKE that first game - sure. I'll buy it. But you're much too analytical a thinker to see somebody scummily(?) because they happened to be scum before. Tell me why they're scum now, not that they're sum because of personal bias. I believe you can do that if you truly feel that he's scum.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Thus the chance of 3 roles is 50%.

Nice result :-)  schadd's method is not what I would have assumed was the most obvious way to sort out the disallowed states, so I'd have come up with different numbers without that clarification. As it is, I haven't yet had time to work the rest of the role probabilities through myself yet, which was what I wanted to do with the algorithm overall, but it looks like IDP has done a pass :-)

I also got a 50% chance of three roles.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry I was absent today. I'll post some more tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

Hm. Typical D1 so far. People trying to be useful. I hope we end up lynching scum, that usually helps alot

[faust]

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

@schadd: This was more than 2 days ago and Dylan still hasn't posted. Can we get a replacement please?

no

[faust]

Not much more happening, huh? Shame. The people I'd look to for scum today are Dylan, Space, Galzria, Awaclus.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Not much more happening, huh? Shame. The people I'd look to for scum today are Dylan, Space, Galzria, Awaclus.

The only person on your list I could support lynching today is Space but I'm not sure how much. Why not LaLight?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Request prod on chairs

sent

[faust]

Not much more happening, huh? Shame. The people I'd look to for scum today are Dylan, Space, Galzria, Awaclus.

The only person on your list I could support lynching today is Space but I'm not sure how much. Why not LaLight?

Why LaLight?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Not much more happening, huh? Shame. The people I'd look to for scum today are Dylan, Space, Galzria, Awaclus.

The only person on your list I could support lynching today is Space but I'm not sure how much. Why not LaLight?

Why LaLight?

He's used a bunch of posts to say nothing, his defense of the chairs vote, and his reason for voting DatSwan. I agree with your calling him out on the two votes.

[Dylan32]

Hey guys. I'm really sorry I forgot to post a VLA! I was at a conference with basically no time for internet use. I'll try get caught up have some thoughts later, but we are just now about to start the drive back home.

[AndrewisFTTW]

To make that a little more clear:

I don't believe that you, Space, find Andrew scummy just because your first game with him he was scum. That's a weak reason. Tell me why, here, he's LIKE that first game - sure. I'll buy it. But you're much too analytical a thinker to see somebody scummily(?) because they happened to be scum before. Tell me why they're scum now, not that they're sum because of personal bias. I believe you can do that if you truly feel that he's scum.

I agree, I'd expect more from Space. Not sure if that's really scummy but it's not really how I'd expect them to play.

[Skumpy]

Not much more happening, huh? Shame. The people I'd look to for scum today are Dylan, Space, Galzria, Awaclus.

The only person on your list I could support lynching today is Space but I'm not sure how much. Why not LaLight?

Why LaLight?

He's used a bunch of posts to say nothing, his defense of the chairs vote, and his reason for voting DatSwan. I agree with your calling him out on the two votes.

After reading back...this.
I don't know if these are incredibly telling signs for scum or SCUMIDPTG cherry picking what should be really telling signs, or a bus even, but the fact that I didn't consider LaLight as scum in my first two reads sets of blaring alarms for me that he's scum. Not voting for him this second because a) he's always been courteous with me b) the man is engaged for crying out loud and c) I think there are better options....

Because I've had an epiphany!

I'm doing a Vote: XX. I would like to know how the triplets feel about his play here, but so far, there's a lot of similarities between this and 105. Assuming he is scum, I think this makes a good narrative for a faust/XX team - a good coach, with instructions to bus. And I think faust would very much be willing to get combatant with a teamed newisher player (not voting for faust because in the 99% chance I'm wrong with calling a D1 team, I'm mislynching him D1 when that was one of my like 2 pledges, and because I'm OK to wait him and Galzria out and see where the game takes us/them).

My non-lynch pool
DatSwan (Not the towniest, not the scummiest, but I'm exercising patience)
Galzria and Faust (I hate automatically giving them a pass, especially when I'm extremely distrusting of them so far. But as said, I'll hope they find a way to bury themselves if they're scum, because they're valuable assets as town)
Chairs (Lurky, but also townie. Not actually so sure on that anymore, but townie enough that I'm not doing it now)

My more-willing-tolynch-pool, in no particular order:
XX (see above)
LaLight (see above)
2.7 (Nothing he's done has changed my thoughts. And it bothers me he's gotten no attention)
Awaclus (Instincts)
Andrew (Empty townposting)
Sorry for accusing you 2+ townsfolk!

*Above is all subject to unforeseen change, also kinda expecting there to be scum in both lists and in those who I left off.

Last point: I'm still not sure how I'd expect players who didn't know me before to read me. Probably not going to try myself because it's worked out so poorly for me in the past.

(I'm still wall-of-texting, but at least it's more occasional!)

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Hey raptor. Any opinions yet?

yes, sorry i will do a full read list later this evening. I apologize for i can't get to it sooner, my weekends are hectic. 

[Galzria]

I'm doing a Vote: XX. I would like to know how the triplets feel about his play here

On the lurker side, I still think Raptor is scummiest - his responses have felt on point identical to me from his last game when he was scum - but I have no basis on which to judge his town play. Dylan could be scum, but there's nothing there to judge by. Andrew could be scum, but I'm withholding judgment for now.

[Swowl]

I'm doing a Vote: XX. I would like to know how the triplets feel about his play here

[/quote]


I think he is playing similarly but IDK what that means exactly. I have only played that one game with him (105). While he flipped skum there on a "answer when asked" kind of demeanor, just because he is doing the same now doesn't sell me all the way on a XXR.
XXR!Faust seems like it would be likely if one flipped skum, but I kind of agree with GAlz on the Town!Faust read, so I don't think I can park on XXR today. 

[Galzria]

Examples, fwiw:

First post 105:

Hey all, sorry I'm late to the party

Andrew's semantics argument reminds me of my own argument on Reggie D1 of M100, where Reggie was town and I was scum.

Once scum always scum.

vote:Galzria

First post 110:

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Hello all!

Oh the pressure is unreal...  vote: galzria

105:

Request prod on Xx

Sorry just a slow D1. Waiting for a slip up or something truly scummy. Still just trying who to find the scum amongst the rest.

110:

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

Yeah I’m here and up to date. I just don’t feel like I have any useful info at this time. I’ll try to contribute more.

[Galzria]

That said, I don't know how he would play as town, so it's not as compelling as it might be.

[Swowl]

I am actually going to go with vote:LL for now.

Same reasons as IDPTG put, plus the initial interaction with Space seemed a little cheesy to me.

Not set it stone on it, but it def is my outstanding favorite option at this time.

[SpaceAnemone]

Oh, and @Andrew, you were scum in our very first encounter, so maybe you'll always be a bit scummy to me.

I think you're a better player than that. Skumpy doesn't like that Faust and I aren't at odds because we were so much in his first game. I would expect that line of thought from newer players. But you've been around long enough and are good enough to make adjustment; to not let past biases influence current reads.

What had Andrew said that reads scummy to you?

Ah... it was my polite way of trying to avoid saying that I tend to find him a bit abrasive, and that therefore I'm likely to give him less benefit of the doubt than most others when it comes to picking who to vote for.

[SpaceAnemone]

Same reasons as IDPTG put, plus the initial interaction with Space seemed a little cheesy to me.

LL and I are friends IRL, in case that colours your view of our exchange at all. Like, we met on here, but he and his partner came to stay with me in the UK, and then when we had the Europe-wide mafia meet, he and I were some of the main drivers of it (plus faust, who managed to persuade us all to go to his city!). Anyway, his posts don't give me any cause to worry he might be more likely than the rest of you to be scum.

I also note that he was voting for you for all of four posts earlier :-P

[SpaceAnemone]

I am actually going to go with vote:LL for now.

If you really do want to vote for LL, you might want add a space after that colon, depending on how strict schadd wants to be with the count...

tbqh i don't think i care about that anymore

[Swowl]

Same reasons as IDPTG put, plus the initial interaction with Space seemed a little cheesy to me.

LL and I are friends IRL, in case that colours your view of our exchange at all. Like, we met on here, but he and his partner came to stay with me in the UK, and then when we had the Europe-wide mafia meet, he and I were some of the main drivers of it (plus faust, who managed to persuade us all to go to his city!). Anyway, his posts don't give me any cause to worry he might be more likely than the rest of you to be scum.

I also note that he was voting for you for all of four posts earlier :-P

Well it absolutely does change my perspective slightly. But the bulk of my reasoning is still in the post content part. Honestly didn't even realize he had a vote on me

[Dylan32]

Ok. I'm pretty much caught up. Most of my reads are more gut than anything, but I did have a few specific thoughts.

1) I don't think scum!faust gets so hung up on lynching totally absent me D1, unless he thinks I'm a skeptical enough person that I would be maybe kind of hard to manipulate later in the game or something. Either way, there are probably other people that he would want to try to get lynched before me as scum. So I guess I'll call faust town for now.

Two thoughts on Awaclus: 2a) He has seemed slightly different than the last game I played with him where he was town. Keeping the details to myself (away from him so he can't change the relevant stuff as easily if scum). Ever so slightly scummy. 2b) Even with that, he is close enough to normal meta that I'm not going to vote based on this on D1. Would be stronger evidence if consistent across several days.

3) This is maybe the first game I've played with IDPTG where I feel pretty good about townreading him. I don't know if there is anything specific there or if I just liked some of the content and that he put in the time to come up with some setup probabilities. I generally appreciate people that are willing to put in the time to do that stuff, so at any rate, D1 pass and a thumbs up for IDPTG from me.

This game felt weird in that I came away with slight gut townreads on almost everyone, and it is usually pretty tough to move me from a neutral opinion to a town read on people...

For now, Vote: LL. I think I like the 2 people on the wagon already (for sure 1 of them), and LL didn't trigger as many warm/fuzzy town-feels as other people.

@Space: Thanks for the comment about enjoying my usual playstyle. The feeling is mutual.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Oh, and @Andrew, you were scum in our very first encounter, so maybe you'll always be a bit scummy to me.

I think you're a better player than that. Skumpy doesn't like that Faust and I aren't at odds because we were so much in his first game. I would expect that line of thought from newer players. But you've been around long enough and are good enough to make adjustment; to not let past biases influence current reads.

What had Andrew said that reads scummy to you?

Ah... it was my polite way of trying to avoid saying that I tend to find him a bit abrasive, and that therefore I'm likely to give him less benefit of the doubt than most others when it comes to picking who to vote for.

Have I been abrasive this game?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Unvote

I'm townreading most people right now. I'd vote for Awaclus, Space, Galz, Datswan. Less sure about Galz and Datswan but there ya go.

[Awaclus]

Keeping the details to myself (away from him so he can't change the relevant stuff as easily if scum).

Good strategy.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Request prod on LaLight

bring it on home

[LaLight]

Request prod on LaLight

Hey. Sorry, always VLA on weekends, always forgot to mention it in the specific thread

[LaLight]

Tomorrow is another weekend being nation-wide holiday, but I will surely catch up

[Xxraptorslayer96]

As promised- Reads

scum pool:
Faust- I stand by my vote for the mean time. Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning. That said my vote may change by end day.
Galz- he questioned my vote on Fuast and states faust is town w/o reasoning. That said i'm not sure if they are partners. just scummy to me
Skumpy- they are just interesting... Seems to be playing less aggressive then they did in 105.
Datswan- seems to be quite for someone who normally has a lot to say

have not had much interaction with any other players and/or nothing that has caught my attention as scummy.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

As promised- Reads

scum pool:
Faust- I stand by my vote for the mean time. Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning. That said my vote may change by end day.
Galz- he questioned my vote on Fuast and states faust is town w/o reasoning. That said i'm not sure if they are partners. just scummy to me
Skumpy- they are just interesting... Seems to be playing less aggressive then they did in 105.
Datswan- seems to be quite for someone who normally has a lot to say

have not had much interaction with any other players and/or nothing that has caught my attention as scummy.

Can you elaborate on your faust read?

[Swowl]

XXR is town.

[Galzria]

XXR is town.

Not at all convinced.

[Swowl]

Finished reading through by player.
LL dropped way on my skum list.
vote:Space for now at least.

Followed by IDPTG and Andrew.

E! Is in there too - 4th down though

[Swowl]

Finished reading through by player.
LL dropped way on my skum list.
vote:Space for now at least.

Followed by IDPTG and Andrew.

E! Is in there too - 4th down though

Dunno what happened.
vote:Space

[Swowl]

XXR is town.

Not at all convinced.

After his fuck up last game he would neeeeevvvveerrrr be so laid back about posts like this. Too many typos, not enough content, didn’t include all players...

XXR is town. Horrible, absolutely horrible D1 lynch at a minimum.

[Swowl]

Previous is to say “no way SkumXXR fucks up that much”

[faust]

I still like my Dylan vote. That vote is awful, and the whole post is weird.

[Swowl]

I still like my Dylan vote. That vote is awful, and the whole post is weird.

What vote?

[faust]

I still like my Dylan vote. That vote is awful, and the whole post is weird.

What vote?

The one that Dylan made.

[LaLight]

well, I can see why people are voting for me, but what is really strange is that some of them stated scumread on another person and then voted for me, weird. I think Dylan is scum here and I want to vote: Dylan as I don't remember if I am still doing that. I would even say DatSwan is one of the partners.

Skumpy is really giving me towny vibes as well as faust, though in the case of faust I will indeed think twice. Space is as always null on D1. I am sorry I was not very active, I struggle to do things D1, like, always.

Also I think that IDPTG have some bias thinking I am scum in every game by the way, I am really sorry about your lynch in Lost, I needed to survive but I still felt bad.

I prefer Dylan or DatSwan lynch here I think.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also I think that IDPTG have some bias thinking I am scum in every game by the way, I am really sorry about your lynch in Lost, I needed to survive but I still felt bad.

That's only when you're the mod. And no hard feelings. It's a game- you do what you have to to win.

[LaLight]

Also I think that IDPTG have some bias thinking I am scum in every game by the way, I am really sorry about your lynch in Lost, I needed to survive but I still felt bad.

That's only when you're the mod. And no hard feelings. It's a game- you do what you have to to win.

I would argue that not only when I am mod you scumread me, but well. I don’t see what people mean this time about not feeling townie about me, i try to form reads in my head

[Swowl]

may I request a vote count please

u may

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/iJp27QMR2KU?t=17s

ohh, baby, it's cryin time
ohh, baby, i've got to fly
got to try to find a way, got to try to get away, cuz you know i got to get away from you babe

ohh, baby, the river's red
ahh, baby, in my head
there's a funny feelin goin on, i don't think i can hold out long

Vote count 1.3

AndrewisFTTW (2): IDontPlayThisGame, SpaceAnemone
LaLight (2): Galzria, Dylan32
Dylan32 (2): faust, LaLight
SpaceAnemone (2): chairs, DatSwan
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828...
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Skumpy

not voting (1): AndrewisFTTW

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends tuesday, november 7th at 21:00 forum time

mod notes

• galzria & datswan are VLA.
• seeking replacement for chairs as i prooded him a little bit more than 24hr ago.
• note for our not-american users: daylight savings just transpired which means forum time moved forth an hour. i guess that means you guys got a bonus hour of day (although considering chairs replacement i plan to add 24hr anyway)

mod quotes

Thus the chance of 3 roles is 50%.

Nice result :-)  schadd's method is not what I would have assumed was the most obvious way to sort out the disallowed states, so I'd have come up with different numbers without that clarification. As it is, I haven't yet had time to work the rest of the role probabilities through myself yet, which was what I wanted to do with the algorithm overall, but it looks like IDP has done a pass :-)

ur mom is an obvious way to sort out disallowed states

uhh

yeah i'm just gonna click save

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

@schadd: This was more than 2 days ago and Dylan still hasn't posted. Can we get a replacement please?

no

Request prod on chairs

sent

I am actually going to go with vote:LL for now.

If you really do want to vote for LL, you might want add a space after that colon, depending on how strict schadd wants to be with the count...

tbqh i don't think i care about that anymore

Request prod on LaLight

bring it on home

[faust]

So: Wagons on Andrew, LaLight and me are bad, wagons on Space and Dylan are good. e, Skumpy and Andrew should consider some wagoning. We really want time to claim here.

[schadd]

gkrieg replaces chairs, effective right nowza.

[gkrieg13]

Haven't read anything yet, but will do that shortly.  Deadline is close.

[schadd]

oh that reminds me.

deadline is now wednesday, nov. 8th at 21:00 forum time.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Alright.

Vote: Space

[gkrieg13]

What better way for me to get into the game but with a stream-of-consciousness reread!

I signed up fully expecting to be Skum, based on both my luck with randomness and my distrust of schadd's methods. So I spent like a month concocting up scenarios to try and figure out what I would do and say as town so I could translate it to Skum play.

Turns out it didn't matter at all.

I've got like 10 other thoughts on my mind, I will stop now because I really want to work on not-wall-of-texting and not boring people to death. Good luck to me and my 9 compatriots!

Reads townie to me.

I forgot just how weird Skumpy is. Hi Skumpy, welcome back.

In other news, Andrew and chairs are townie, and Galzria is scummy.

Vote: Galzria

Why Andrew townie and galz scummy?  I think I agree more with the Andrew townie part.

In other news, Andrew and chairs are townie, and Galzria is scummy.

Vote: Galzria

Didn't we just do this? And weren't you wrong on 2/3?

I don't have a problem with being wrong. If you do, maybe don't play social deduction games?

Not sure why yet, but this just seems scummy to me. 

Good morning all!

Vote: LL Great to be in a game with you again!

How's things? Feeling scummy this time round?

hey! I didn't realize you're here! Things are well, never felt more towny. how about you?

Yeah, life is awesome and towny here :-)

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

I thought that neihborizers should claim, but then i thought it’s a bad idea

I don't see the point in claiming anything this early in D1.

slightly scummy for not even entertaining the idea of claiming.

galzria has some really townie stuff.  Asking good questions, and it honestly feels like he is scum hunting.

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

Both votes I don't understand, but I actually think faust is more scummy for it than Andrew.

Space says they haven't done much number-crunching reads townie to me.

In other news, scum is totally hiding in people who aren't voting yet (looking at you, e)

Is e more likely to say this as scum or town?  Pretty null to me.

Question - since this set up is different then 108 (no drafting) did skum find out about their PRs in like the “pre-twilight” game stage with time to talk about their game plan or after the game started?


scum were made aware of their factional abilities in N0 if they have them.

Noob enough that it seems townie.  Although he surprised me in the last Robz game.

Prediction: There is exactly one scum among the three people who just called Skumpy town.

Is this because of the people involved, or the fact that three people in a row called skumpy town?

Emacs sucks.  Vim is better...

I'm super surprised anyone suggested that a weak neighborizor should claim.  They definitely shouldn't.  Faust said what they should do best and that is that we should all claim who we would target if we were a neiborizer D2. 

Andrew seems more negative than I remember him being.

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

This reads town that isn't engaged to me.

Stopped at #150, will finish this later.

[AndrewisFTTW]

How am I being negative?

[Awaclus]

How am I being negative?

How are you not being negative?

[faust]

galzria has some really townie stuff.  Asking good questions, and it honestly feels like he is scum hunting.

Really? Where? Why is this the only thing without quotes?

Is this because of the people involved, or the fact that three people in a row called skumpy town?

Mostly the former, but I might have reached a different conclusion with other people involved.

[AndrewisFTTW]

How am I being negative?

How are you not being negative?

Uh huh... Ok. Great.

[faust]

How am I being negative?

How are you not being negative?

Uh huh... Ok. Great.

You can try to answer, you know.

[Swowl]

So: Wagons on Andrew, LaLight and me are bad, wagons on Space and Dylan are good. e, Skumpy and Andrew should consider some wagoning. We really want time to claim here.

What is it we need time to claim today?

[SpaceAnemone]

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

oo!

[SpaceAnemone]

If you really do want to vote for LL, you might want add a space after that colon, depending on how strict schadd wants to be with the count...

tbqh i don't think i care about that anymore

Darn.. now I have to go and break my vote-counting script so it doesn't mind things that were previously excluded as malformed votes :-(

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

Awwwww

[SpaceAnemone]

Ah... it was my polite way of trying to avoid saying that I tend to find him a bit abrasive, and that therefore I'm likely to give him less benefit of the doubt than most others when it comes to picking who to vote for.

Have I been abrasive this game?

Yeah, a little. There are a few snippy/sarcastic retorts or verging-on-mean comments (#126, #198, #200). It's nothing outside of what people generally accept on this forum, but it's still less pleasant to read than a more neutral or friendly tone.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

As promised- Reads

scum pool:
Faust- I stand by my vote for the mean time. Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning. That said my vote may change by end day.
Galz- he questioned my vote on Fuast and states faust is town w/o reasoning. That said i'm not sure if they are partners. just scummy to me
Skumpy- they are just interesting... Seems to be playing less aggressive then they did in 105.
Datswan- seems to be quite for someone who normally has a lot to say

have not had much interaction with any other players and/or nothing that has caught my attention as scummy.

Can you elaborate on your faust read?

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

This is mostly the post that I was referring too. I know its not the best evidence, but its good enough for rn.

PPE:1

[SpaceAnemone]

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

Awwwww

I should add that it's nothing directly to do with Haddock! It's just that he's met the person it does involve two or three times, and it's not a secret from games people :-P

SPACE IS ADOPTING HADDOCK EVERYONE TELL THE PRESS

[AndrewisFTTW]

How am I being negative?

How are you not being negative?

Uh huh... Ok. Great.

You can try to answer, you know.

What!? Why are you trying to turn this around on me? I asked a question first!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ah... it was my polite way of trying to avoid saying that I tend to find him a bit abrasive, and that therefore I'm likely to give him less benefit of the doubt than most others when it comes to picking who to vote for.

Have I been abrasive this game?

Yeah, a little. There are a few snippy/sarcastic retorts or verging-on-mean comments (#126, #198, #200). It's nothing outside of what people generally accept on this forum, but it's still less pleasant to read than a more neutral or friendly tone.

Yeah well sometimes I'm a little sarcastic. But sometimes you misconstrue things. I'm just here to have fun (and scumhunt) so sometimes I joke around a little bit and maybe even poke fun at people sometimes. Don't take me too seriously.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

[2.71828.....]

Hm. I haven't been prodded yet? Flying under the radar for sure. But actually, sorry I haven't spent more time here. I was supposed to be away on a business trip the next week (lots of free time) but now I am staying home (yay! But less free time to mafia)

[2.71828.....]

 lynching IDPTG isn't cool anymore? That's no good

[gkrieg13]

galzria has some really townie stuff.  Asking good questions, and it honestly feels like he is scum hunting.

Really? Where? Why is this the only thing without quotes?

Is this because of the people involved, or the fact that three people in a row called skumpy town?

Mostly the former, but I might have reached a different conclusion with other people involved.

137 and 139. Not sure why they didn’t get quotes, probably because I didn’t want big quotes in there arbitrarily.

So why state it that way instead of just saying once again that you scum read two people?

[gkrieg13]

Ah... it was my polite way of trying to avoid saying that I tend to find him a bit abrasive, and that therefore I'm likely to give him less benefit of the doubt than most others when it comes to picking who to vote for.

Have I been abrasive this game?

Yeah, a little. There are a few snippy/sarcastic retorts or verging-on-mean comments (#126, #198, #200). It's nothing outside of what people generally accept on this forum, but it's still less pleasant to read than a more neutral or friendly tone.

Yeah well sometimes I'm a little sarcastic. But sometimes you misconstrue things. I'm just here to have fun (and scumhunt) so sometimes I joke around a little bit and maybe even poke fun at people sometimes. Don't take me too seriously.

These are the posts I was talking about mainly. I’m not saying it is a bad thing, just noting that your tone seemed different from other games I have played with you.

[gkrieg13]

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

This also reads townie to me.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ah... it was my polite way of trying to avoid saying that I tend to find him a bit abrasive, and that therefore I'm likely to give him less benefit of the doubt than most others when it comes to picking who to vote for.

Have I been abrasive this game?

Yeah, a little. There are a few snippy/sarcastic retorts or verging-on-mean comments (#126, #198, #200). It's nothing outside of what people generally accept on this forum, but it's still less pleasant to read than a more neutral or friendly tone.

Yeah well sometimes I'm a little sarcastic. But sometimes you misconstrue things. I'm just here to have fun (and scumhunt) so sometimes I joke around a little bit and maybe even poke fun at people sometimes. Don't take me too seriously.

These are the posts I was talking about mainly. I’m not saying it is a bad thing, just noting that your tone seemed different from other games I have played with you.

Huh? These posts are after when you said I was negative.

[Skumpy]

Hm. I haven't been prodded yet? Flying under the radar for sure.

Hectic couple of days for me too, sorry. I'll try to contribute later on in a couple hours (not try as in I might post or I might not, try as in hope I make a good decision).

[faust]

So: Wagons on Andrew, LaLight and me are bad, wagons on Space and Dylan are good. e, Skumpy and Andrew should consider some wagoning. We really want time to claim here.

What is it we need time to claim today?

Roles at L-1.

[faust]

galzria has some really townie stuff.  Asking good questions, and it honestly feels like he is scum hunting.

Really? Where? Why is this the only thing without quotes?

Is this because of the people involved, or the fact that three people in a row called skumpy town?

Mostly the former, but I might have reached a different conclusion with other people involved.

137 and 139. Not sure why they didn’t get quotes, probably because I didn’t want big quotes in there arbitrarily.

So why state it that way instead of just saying once again that you scum read two people?

Oops, sorry, I got it the wrong way around I meant to say mosty that they all called Skumpy town.

[Skumpy]

I hate Day 1's.

Did a big read-through where I went back to square 1, and discovered that I have an idea for the wishy-washy stuff scum would say on D1 (looking at the Andrews, 2.7's, and LaLight's of the world) then immediately decide that scum will do the exact opposite (looking at the fausts and IDPTG's of the world and the Spaces of the not-world. Also, congrats to Space on the thing!). I know you all love it when I spam the self-deprecation, but I feel compelled to put it out there.

New top pick at this point is Vote: Andrew.  There's been a wagon on him pretty consistently all day, and while I would expect myself to be afraid of it, it actually hasn't built up much at all. That, and it's not the same self-assuredness I'd expect from him and he's not as abrasive. When I said before that the day feels different because of the non-Faust/Galzria feud, what I was also thinking without saying out loud/on-forum was that at the very least, something is different in the overall interactions, or in other words, there was a townie from 105 who is not townie here, so I could've thrown Andrew into that pair as well for being responsible for the differences.

(Btw, I don't take offense at all to the #126 and #198, I actually do appreciate the honesty a lot. It takes a lot to rattle me, though I did find #64 to be a beautifully profound post).

On my past XX accusation: after DatSwan's defense, uh, I'm putting this on the backburner. Swan had good points, but at the same time, XX's posts still ring a bell or thirty-nine of familiarity. Next picks would be Lalight and 2.7 for now.

[Skumpy]

But what do I know?

[LaLight]

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

oo!

Now I am burning with curiosity but asking you via other means of communication will be clearly game-related, is that your plan?

[faust]

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

oo!

Now I am burning with curiosity but asking you via other means of communication will be clearly game-related, is that your plan?

Ingenious!

[IDontPlayThisGame]

vote: Raptor

I don't like his responses and lack thereof.

[faust]

vote: Raptor

I don't like his responses and lack thereof.

That's super unhelpful. What compels you to leave the largest wagon we currently have?

[faust]

(not that I particularly like the Andrew wagon, but at least it's a wagon)

[Swowl]

Can’t bwleive I’m saying it.... but I agree with Faust.
This actually makes me like the Andrew wagon a lot more then i did before.

[Swowl]

For clarification - Two separate points.
1) agree with the fact switching to XXR probably not well timed
2) bailing on the Andrew wagon for raptor seems suspicious to me

[faust]

Can’t bwleive I’m saying it.... but I agree with Faust.
This actually makes me like the Andrew wagon a lot more then i did before.

Why?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

vote: Raptor

I don't like his responses and lack thereof.

That's super unhelpful. What compels you to leave the largest wagon we currently have?

I'd rather vote where I think scum is than on a wagon for the sake of wagoning. Besides, it was what, three votes?

[AndrewisFTTW]

So I guess people are voting for me because I'm not being an asshole or something? Well it's not for me to decide whether I'm an asshole or not so I can't really debate that. But I can say that just because you look at two games and see that I'm playing different doesn't really mean that I'm town in one and scum in the other. So I think it's a pretty poor reasoning for a lynch. Besides, I died N1 in my last game and I already asked not to be killed in the first day/night this game! That really isn't any fun!

[gkrieg13]

So I guess people are voting for me because I'm not being an asshole or something? Well it's not for me to decide whether I'm an asshole or not so I can't really debate that. But I can say that just because you look at two games and see that I'm playing different doesn't really mean that I'm town in one and scum in the other. So I think it's a pretty poor reasoning for a lynch. Besides, I died N1 in my last game and I already asked not to be killed in the first day/night this game! That really isn't any fun!

So are you saying that meta arguments don't work with you?  What would cause the change in playstyle?

[AndrewisFTTW]

So I guess people are voting for me because I'm not being an asshole or something? Well it's not for me to decide whether I'm an asshole or not so I can't really debate that. But I can say that just because you look at two games and see that I'm playing different doesn't really mean that I'm town in one and scum in the other. So I think it's a pretty poor reasoning for a lynch. Besides, I died N1 in my last game and I already asked not to be killed in the first day/night this game! That really isn't any fun!

So are you saying that meta arguments don't work with you?  What would cause the change in playstyle?

No I'm not saying meta arguments don't work and I'm not saying they don't work with me. I'm saying (1) two games is a very small sample size, (2) sometimes I feel like approaching a game a different way regardless of alignment and I'm sure other people do the same, (3) every game is different with different people, different situations, etc. so why does everyone expect everyone else to play the same way every game? (Bonus points!) Has anyone bothered to see how I play as scum and compared it to today? Because it seems like everyone thinks the understand how I play town but they don't refer to any supposed scum tells. No I don't think it's really necessary to go through all that (especially on D1) but hey, something to think about right?

[Swowl]

Can’t bwleive I’m saying it.... but I agree with Faust.
This actually makes me like the Andrew wagon a lot more then i did before.

Why?

Makes me think it could be skum buddy protection lowering  wagon count prior to the inevitable last minute piles that will soon ensue.

[faust]

Can’t bwleive I’m saying it.... but I agree with Faust.
This actually makes me like the Andrew wagon a lot more then i did before.

Why?

Makes me think it could be skum buddy protection lowering  wagon count prior to the inevitable last minute piles that will soon ensue.

So, want to lynch Idplay? I mean this is stronger evidence on him than it is on Andrew.

[faust]

So, deadline is what, 5 hours away? There was talk about an extension, is that still happening? Otherwise this is the last from me, and let's hope things go increbily well.

I'm looking at how I could change my vote, but not really. I don't like the other wagons except Space, and Space only is at two votes because they have an old chairs vote on them that will probably not hold up. So let's just lynch Dylan, yeah? Still scummy, still done nothing, and I'll be very happy to see anti-town people removed no matter the alignment.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Deadline is on Wednesday.

[gkrieg13]

So, deadline is what, 5 hours away? There was talk about an extension, is that still happening? Otherwise this is the last from me, and let's hope things go increbily well.

I'm looking at how I could change my vote, but not really. I don't like the other wagons except Space, and Space only is at two votes because they have an old chairs vote on them that will probably not hold up. So let's just lynch Dylan, yeah? Still scummy, still done nothing, and I'll be very happy to see anti-town people removed no matter the alignment.

I'm pretty sure an extension has already been given.

[faust]

Well okay. Still we need to get things going somehow.

[gkrieg13]

Well okay. Still we need to get things going somehow.

I'll do the second half of my reread and vote hopefully soon (kinda busy at work right now).

[Skumpy]

So I guess people are voting for me because I'm not being an asshole or something? Well it's not for me to decide whether I'm an asshole or not so I can't really debate that. But I can say that just because you look at two games and see that I'm playing different doesn't really mean that I'm town in one and scum in the other. So I think it's a pretty poor reasoning for a lynch. Besides, I died N1 in my last game and I already asked not to be killed in the first day/night this game! That really isn't any fun!

I have a (user)name.

It's my second game. Stop expecting some masterful argument from me where I give you some amazing breakdown of your play to figure you out in(in MVL when they were town they said 'can I' , but in MC when they were scum they said 'may I'!). I have a sample size of 1 game, and I'm too lazy to comb through your past games. You have played differently, and that is the best information I have. How else should I be deciding? A D12?

At this point I would be most OK with lynching someone who I've played with before for more than a couple of days, both because I have a better read of them and because I'm hesitant to anger someone who I've never played with before (which I have violated a bit so far, but let's forget about that). And of the {you, DatSwan, Raptor, Faust, Galzria}, you're my top pick for a lynch (only by a little over Raptor, but still). I am not dead stuck on you, I am very much open to at least considering other options at this point for any of the other 11 if you or anybody else can give me a good reason. But it's still day 1. And I don't think I or anyone else is capable of saying something really persuasive. This is all just a total crapshoot, and my dice are flipping 13 for you.

To quickly hit your last point, in my first game, you were not lynched and were never in danger of it after the first day, a day in which you were my biggest townread, so I personally can't relate to that sentiment. Sorry

[Swowl]

Can’t bwleive I’m saying it.... but I agree with Faust.
This actually makes me like the Andrew wagon a lot more then i did before.

Why?

Makes me think it could be skum buddy protection lowering  wagon count prior to the inevitable last minute piles that will soon ensue.

So, want to lynch Idplay? I mean this is stronger evidence on him than it is on Andrew.

Fair enough. I could go for that but doubt we gain much support.
vote: dylan seems like a better plan for the time being. Def could change on that but for now seems like a fine choice.

[SpaceAnemone]

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

oo!

Now I am burning with curiosity but asking you via other means of communication will be clearly game-related, is that your plan?

Ingenious!

Do we still have a Berlin-group Telegram where I can gossip about non-game-related personal circumstances maybe?

Actually, I'm too busy tonight to do gossip and do any reasonable thinking about the game... I have approximately till my mystery secret person has finished the washing up, then we're going to bed. Luckily we had sushi'n'Trek night with a couple of friends, so the washing up pile is pretty big :-P

[SpaceAnemone]

1) I don't think scum!faust gets so hung up on lynching totally absent me D1, unless he thinks I'm a skeptical enough person that I would be maybe kind of hard to manipulate later in the game or something. Either way, there are probably other people that he would want to try to get lynched before me as scum. So I guess I'll call faust town for now.

Though if you're both scum, I can totally see him pushing the bus in exactly this sort of way. And his suspicion of me this game seems a bit unfounded, so I'm getting more and more worried about the possibility of scum!faust.

@Space: Thanks for the comment about enjoying my usual playstyle. The feeling is mutual.

Thank you :-) Don't think I won't vote for you if you're not more pro-town from now on, though :-P

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: Datswan

He seems a little careful to me and a little too accommodating to me.

[SpaceAnemone]

So I guess people are voting for me because I'm not being an asshole or something? Well it's not for me to decide whether I'm an asshole or not so I can't really debate that. But I can say that just because you look at two games and see that I'm playing different doesn't really mean that I'm town in one and scum in the other. So I think it's a pretty poor reasoning for a lynch. Besides, I died N1 in my last game and I already asked not to be killed in the first day/night this game! That really isn't any fun!

If it helps at all, I'm not voting for you for being not-an-asshole :-) I'm voting for you for being not a definitely-not-an-asshole and also more not-definitely-town than most for the moment.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I edited that sentence but not enough to make it not sound weird. Sorry.

[AndrewisFTTW]

So I guess people are voting for me because I'm not being an asshole or something? Well it's not for me to decide whether I'm an asshole or not so I can't really debate that. But I can say that just because you look at two games and see that I'm playing different doesn't really mean that I'm town in one and scum in the other. So I think it's a pretty poor reasoning for a lynch. Besides, I died N1 in my last game and I already asked not to be killed in the first day/night this game! That really isn't any fun!

If it helps at all, I'm not voting for you for being not-an-asshole :-) I'm voting for you for being not a definitely-not-an-asshole and also more not-definitely-town than most for the moment.

In that case, who else is on your "not-definitely-town" list?

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey Swan and Raptor, could you guys put some personal text or a Shuffle iT username or something onto your account profile so it's easier to search for you?

How are the rest of you doing targeted re-reads on Raptor?

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

(not that I particularly like the Andrew wagon, but at least it's a wagon)

If this is what you have to say about the wagon but hold that I should have stayed on it, why aren't you on it?

How are the rest of you doing targeted re-reads on Raptor?

I just viewed his posts off his profile page.

[SpaceAnemone]

In that case, who else is on your "not-definitely-town" list?

Everyone other than me. But at your end of it I guess Swanraptorpy and maybe e is creeping that way. Dylan, faust and Galz are in middle ground. IDP and LL are at the townier end of things. I can't do anything about reading Awaclus for now, and I want to see more from gkrieg before judging.

I think e is a problem for me because I'm beginning to feel he's maybe a bit scummy, but that usually happens if he's being a town with wildly different ideas than I have.

[SpaceAnemone]

How are the rest of you doing targeted re-reads on Raptor?

I just viewed his posts off his profile page.

I'd quite forgotten that that was a thing. Thank you :-)

And yes, I'd quite happily vote Raptor after seeing the sum total of his posts in this game to date. Though I'm staying on my current wagon for the moment.

[SpaceAnemone]

Deadline is 9pm forum time tomorrow. That's quite late here (like 2am), so I'm very unlikely to be able to stay up till the deadline itself, but I should be online on and off from around 15.30 forum time when I'm home and fed, up till bedtime.

[Dylan32]

1) I don't think scum!faust gets so hung up on lynching totally absent me D1, unless he thinks I'm a skeptical enough person that I would be maybe kind of hard to manipulate later in the game or something. Either way, there are probably other people that he would want to try to get lynched before me as scum. So I guess I'll call faust town for now.

Though if you're both scum, I can totally see him pushing the bus in exactly this sort of way. And his suspicion of me this game seems a bit unfounded, so I'm getting more and more worried about the possibility of scum!faust.

@Space: Thanks for the comment about enjoying my usual playstyle. The feeling is mutual.

Thank you :-) Don't think I won't vote for you if you're not more pro-town from now on, though :-P

That's fair. Frankly I would expect nothing less :p

Re: faust.
What exactly have I done that was scummy? I literally was absent for the first week of the game... (sorry again) I had the first post of the game, answered a question before I realized the answer had already been given, then forgot to post a VLA... That's not scummy, it's just nothing. First of all, compare every town game to every scum game of mine, and I have been significantly more likely to be less active or go stretches without posting as town than as scum. I pay tend to be more engaged because I enjoy the challenge of being scum. I'm trying to bring my town game up to that level, but clearly haven't yet.

Call it whatever you want, but Vote: faust. I don't always get scummy vibes from people who push for my lynch. In fact I have actually given town points depending on how it was done before. But this feels incredibly similar to times my lynch has been pushed by scum. Example includes the way scum!Awaclus pushed me in British Bonkers, and scum!LL in M94. M96 is an example of me getting lynched as town due to inactivity. Read any red game in my sig for an example of me doing more (or at least enough to not really be suspicious for posting level.) I think my scum game with Andrew I did have one stretch where I got super busy irl, but other than that, yeah, those games should back me up if memory serves.

PPE 5 due to looking up game numbers

[Swowl]

Hey Swan and Raptor, could you guys put some personal text or a Shuffle iT username or something onto your account profile so it's easier to search for you?

How are the rest of you doing targeted re-reads on Raptor?

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

Sorry didn’t know that was a thing. There you go.
Also - twin claim in our case is Galz me and Raptor all work together.

[Swowl]

Vote: Datswan

He seems a little careful to me and a little too accommodating to me.

I’m sorry for being thoughtful and helpful

[Skumpy]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I'm biased of course, but I don't know how you mix me up with Raptor. Or me with anybody for that matter. Then again, I'm starting to get totally lost between everybody and all their reads. Votecount please? And I know nobody past their bleak lifeless profiles, so I claim no twins.

I was 'not wanting to lynch Dylan' before. One Dylan post later and I'm 'really not wanting to lynch Dylan' now.
I get his faust vote and I know he's going to be scum this game, but I'm not voting there because I don't want to risk being wrong. Yet.

So town is split like dead even on Andrew, Dylan, Faust, Space, Galzria,....pretty much everybody (except me  ). I'm staying on Andrew for now, it still bothers me that that wagon has never managed to build up much, but I have a very flexible vote. I don't see Andrew getting lynched, so we'll see where the wandering wind takes me.

[Skumpy]

Sorry didn’t know that was a thing. There you go.
Also - twin claim in our case is Galz me and Raptor all work together.

Which reminds me: am I allowed to ask what you guys do for a living that lets you be up at 2 in the morning and has you working weekends? Or is that too personal?

[Swowl]

Sorry didn’t know that was a thing. There you go.
Also - twin claim in our case is Galz me and Raptor all work together.

Which reminds me: am I allowed to ask what you guys do for a living that lets you be up at 2 in the morning and has you working weekends? Or is that too personal?

Haha nah it’s good.
We run a few swim schools.
Weekends because we all coach.
.... can’t really explain the 2am but...

[2.71828.....]

In that case, who else is on your "not-definitely-town" list?

Everyone other than me. But at your end of it I guess Swanraptorpy and maybe e is creeping that way. Dylan, faust and Galz are in middle ground. IDP and LL are at the townier end of things. I can't do anything about reading Awaclus for now, and I want to see more from gkrieg before judging.

I think e is a problem for me because I'm beginning to feel he's maybe a bit scummy, but that usually happens if he's being a town with wildly different ideas than I have.

Sorry, I haven't posted enough for us to disagree on stuff

[schadd]

Vote count 1.4

AndrewisFTTW (2): SpaceAnemone, Skumpy
LaLight (1): Galzria
Dylan32 (3): faust, LaLight, DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
faust (3): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus, Dylan32
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828...
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
DatSwan (1): AndrewisFTTW

not voting (0):

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in just under a day.

mod notes

• again note the deadline extension and that the day phase has in fact not ended

mod quotes

Not sure what to make of this, almost feels like they have more information than the rest of us, like this was planned beforehand (although knowing who this is coming from, this is just about as likely to just be normal for them.)

Haha :-) I do have an exciting secret, though it's nothing alignment-relevant. Just something awesome I haven't told LL about yet. Or most of the rest of the world. Well, Haddock knows.

I was going to say that it's nothing game-relevant, but actually it does kind of cut down on my available playing time.

Anyway, life is good ;-)

oo!

I should add that it's nothing directly to do with Haddock! It's just that he's met the person it does involve two or three times, and it's not a secret from games people :-P

SPACE IS ADOPTING HADDOCK EVERYONE TELL THE PRESS

[schadd]

ha. i took this pagetop from e but gave him the last one

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: Datswan

He seems a little careful to me and a little too accommodating to me.

I’m sorry for being thoughtful and helpful

I don't think you're being thoughtful or helpful. I don't think you're not being thoughtful or helpful either. And that wouldn't mean you shouldn't be lynched anyways.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Yes I recognize how confusing that last post was. Whatever.

Oh and DAMA!

[Swowl]

Vote: Datswan

He seems a little careful to me and a little too accommodating to me.

I’m sorry for being thoughtful and helpful

I don't think you're being thoughtful or helpful. I don't think you're not being thoughtful or helpful either. And that wouldn't mean you shouldn't be lynched anyways.

Fair enough. I mean I don't agree, but still you are entitled to your opinion.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Hey Swan and Raptor, could you guys put some personal text or a Shuffle iT username or something onto your account profile so it's easier to search for you?

How are the rest of you doing targeted re-reads on Raptor?

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

Yeah I updated it, sorry.
And like swan said, we all work together. And are close friends irl.

[Swowl]

OK so with the deadline move, if we play down to the wire I will be at work. I will still have limited access, but all the same here is this FWIW:

Towny:
XXR
Galz
Skumpy

Null/Towny:
Faust
GK

Null/Skummy:
Awaclus
Dylan
Space

Skummy:
Andrew
IDPTG
LL
E!


And, with those re considerations, plus I just don't see me coming off as skummy right now so I kind of don't get it - vote:Andrew
I don't want it to come off as OMGUS, even though I know it will. I just believe a Town!Andrew vote at this point on someone more likely to be lynched. Vote for me just feels off. I don't really like the Dylan lynch anymore either.

[faust]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

Historically, a twin claim means that someone reveals that two people know each other IRL. (they do not actually need to be twins; maybe the first f.ds twinclaim was Robz and mcmc, but I'm not sure) So like, you and LaLight and me could have a twin claim, even if it's kinda weird as we only know each other through the forum. I think it was considered polite to announce that back in the old days. It seems less relevant now that some people have played dozens of games together, so they're bound to know each other quite well even if they're not acquainted IRL.

[faust]

What exactly have I done that was scummy?

What exactly have you done that was not scummy?

I literally was absent for the first week of the game... (sorry again) I had the first post of the game, answered a question before I realized the answer had already been given, then forgot to post a VLA... That's not scummy, it's just nothing.

It matters what you didn't do that you could have done. You decided to go for theory talk instead of sharing reads. Since early reads are the most difficult for scum, that is scummy right there. Also for some reason you ignored you last post, which is the main reason for me still finding you scummy.

First of all, compare every town game to every scum game of mine, and I have been significantly more likely to be less active or go stretches without posting as town than as scum. I pay tend to be more engaged because I enjoy the challenge of being scum. I'm trying to bring my town game up to that level, but clearly haven't yet.

So have you been VLA or have you been less active because you're town? Because if it's the former, and you use in your defense, that's highly disingenuous.

Call it whatever you want, but Vote: faust.

I call it "conveniently using OMGUS to jump on a mislynch wagon".

I don't always get scummy vibes from people who push for my lynch. In fact I have actually given town points depending on how it was done before. But this feels incredibly similar to times my lynch has been pushed by scum. Example includes the way scum!Awaclus pushed me in British Bonkers, and scum!LL in M94. M96 is an example of me getting lynched as town due to inactivity.

How is it similar? I am not Awaclus nor LaLight; what makes you think I would do the same as them as scum?

Read any red game in my sig for an example of me doing more (or at least enough to not really be suspicious for posting level.) I think my scum game with Andrew I did have one stretch where I got super busy irl, but other than that, yeah, those games should back me up if memory serves.

PPE 5 due to looking up game numbers

More using your supposed VLA as a defense.

[faust]

I was 'not wanting to lynch Dylan' before. One Dylan post later and I'm 'really not wanting to lynch Dylan' now.
I get his faust vote

How do you get his vote on me? Have you read M94 and M96, the games he references as the reason for his vote? If yes, could you point out some of the similarities between me and Awaclus/LaLight in those games? If not, how can you possibly get a vote that is founded in games that you know nothing about?

[faust]

OK so with the deadline move, if we play down to the wire I will be at work. I will still have limited access, but all the same here is this FWIW:

Towny:
XXR
Galz
Skumpy

I remember your positions on XXR and Skumpy, but can you remind me why you think Galzria is town?

I don't really like the Dylan lynch anymore either.

Why not?

[faust]

I guess I do ask more questions as town. Need to fix that.

[AndrewisFTTW]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

[Skumpy]

I was 'not wanting to lynch Dylan' before. One Dylan post later and I'm 'really not wanting to lynch Dylan' now.
I get his faust vote

How do you get his vote on me? Have you read M94 and M96, the games he references as the reason for his vote? If yes, could you point out some of the similarities between me and Awaclus/LaLight in those games? If not, how can you possibly get a vote that is founded in games that you know nothing about?

It's the 'Not' scenario. I'm not basing the 'I get it' off his specific instances, it's off how I agree that scum wouldn't push hard to get a mislynch because it's an obvious tell, which is why it's a genius play from a clever scum. Sure, you're not Awaclus or Lalight, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't do a similar thing. You're smart.

And also:

Read any red game in my sig for an example of me doing more (or at least enough to not really be suspicious for posting level.) I think my scum game with Andrew I did have one stretch where I got super busy irl, but other than that, yeah, those games should back me up if memory serves.

PPE 5 due to looking up game numbers

More using your supposed VLA as a defense.

...are you really going to go there? He literally wasn't on the forums for 3 days.

[Swowl]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

After your “please let me live to D2” bit... yeah i do.

[faust]

And also:

Read any red game in my sig for an example of me doing more (or at least enough to not really be suspicious for posting level.) I think my scum game with Andrew I did have one stretch where I got super busy irl, but other than that, yeah, those games should back me up if memory serves.

PPE 5 due to looking up game numbers

More using your supposed VLA as a defense.

...are you really going to go there? He literally wasn't on the forums for 3 days.

You are getting this wrong. I am not the one going there, he is. He says he's town because he's not active. But then he also says he's VLA, which would mean he's inactive as either alignment. So how can he be town for that? It doesn't make sense. I don't want to imply that the VLA wasn't real, but if it was real, the Dylan cannot argue that he's town because he's less active.

[AndrewisFTTW]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

After your “please let me live to D2” bit... yeah i do.

Like I said, deadline is tomorrow and if I need to move my vote tomorrow to get a lynch through I'll do so. But it's not too late to start a new wagon, which is the assumption your argument is based on

[faust]

I was 'not wanting to lynch Dylan' before. One Dylan post later and I'm 'really not wanting to lynch Dylan' now.
I get his faust vote

How do you get his vote on me? Have you read M94 and M96, the games he references as the reason for his vote? If yes, could you point out some of the similarities between me and Awaclus/LaLight in those games? If not, how can you possibly get a vote that is founded in games that you know nothing about?

It's the 'Not' scenario. I'm not basing the 'I get it' off his specific instances, it's off how I agree that scum wouldn't push hard to get a mislynch because it's an obvious tell, which is why it's a genius play from a clever scum. Sure, you're not Awaclus or Lalight, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't do a similar thing. You're smart.

Well thanks. But do you have any reason to think that I would not push this hard as town?

[faust]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

Meh. DatSwan is town. How about you vote Dylan?

[Swowl]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

After your “please let me live to D2” bit... yeah i do.

Like I said, deadline is tomorrow and if I need to move my vote tomorrow to get a lynch through I'll do so. But it's not too late to start a new wagon, which is the assumption your argument is based on

I’m confused... didn’t you just say Town you -wouldn’t- switch votes just bc someone is more likely to be lynched? Why would the same person feel the need to point out they will “switch their vote just to get a lynch lynch through”?

[AndrewisFTTW]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

Meh. DatSwan is town. How about you vote Dylan?

Yeah maybe. Do you have any specific reasons for your townread on DatSwan?

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

After your “please let me live to D2” bit... yeah i do.

Like I said, deadline is tomorrow and if I need to move my vote tomorrow to get a lynch through I'll do so. But it's not too late to start a new wagon, which is the assumption your argument is based on

I’m confused... didn’t you just say Town you -wouldn’t- switch votes just bc someone is more likely to be lynched? Why would the same person feel the need to point out they will “switch their vote just to get a lynch lynch through”?

Where did I say I wouldn't switch votes? I just said we have time to start a new wagon and so just because someone has a large wagon them not doesn't they will at deadline so I don't feel the need to switch my vote at this moment.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry I meant "just because someone has a large wagon on them now doesn't mean they will at deadline".

[Swowl]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

Meh. DatSwan is town. How about you vote Dylan?

I’m just not seeing it anymore right now. He’s back and talking and 99% of the reason i was boring for him was bc he was MIA.

[Swowl]

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

Meh. DatSwan is town. How about you vote Dylan?

Yeah maybe. Do you have any specific reasons for your townread on DatSwan?

You think if I was town I'd have my vote on someone "more likely to be lynched? First of all I have no idea where you would get that from, that just sounds like someone you made up as an excuse to vote for me because it could be an easy mislynch. But anyway, just because it looks like someone might be lynched right now doesn't mean the picture will be the same tomorrow. Things can change real quick.

Come on people. Vote Datswan!

After your “please let me live to D2” bit... yeah i do.

Like I said, deadline is tomorrow and if I need to move my vote tomorrow to get a lynch through I'll do so. But it's not too late to start a new wagon, which is the assumption your argument is based on

I’m confused... didn’t you just say Town you -wouldn’t- switch votes just bc someone is more likely to be lynched? Why would the same person feel the need to point out they will “switch their vote just to get a lynch lynch through”?

Where did I say I wouldn't switch votes? I just said we have time to start a new wagon and so just because someone has a large wagon them not doesn't they will at deadline so I don't feel the need to switch my vote at this moment.

Dylan read- i feel like an skum that comes back after so long would diversify post content and/or go after someone other then their tunneler to take off heat. Not saying town read just saying further up my list.

Switch votes- i feel like we are mid understanding one and other on this one. My point was i found it odd that you voted for me with the note of not having an issue of switching your vote to get a lynch through after saying town you wouldn’t just wagon on someone to make a lynch happen.

[Skumpy]

I was 'not wanting to lynch Dylan' before. One Dylan post later and I'm 'really not wanting to lynch Dylan' now.
I get his faust vote

How do you get his vote on me? Have you read M94 and M96, the games he references as the reason for his vote? If yes, could you point out some of the similarities between me and Awaclus/LaLight in those games? If not, how can you possibly get a vote that is founded in games that you know nothing about?

It's the 'Not' scenario. I'm not basing the 'I get it' off his specific instances, it's off how I agree that scum wouldn't push hard to get a mislynch because it's an obvious tell, which is why it's a genius play from a clever scum. Sure, you're not Awaclus or Lalight, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't do a similar thing. You're smart.

Well thanks. But do you have any reason to think that I would not push this hard as town?

Not at all, which is part of the reason I'm not voting you. "I get it" does not equal "yeah, let's vote for faust".

The main part, as I have said before, is I'm going to feel like an absolute jerkwad if I mislynch you day 1 after I nearly singlehandedly got you mislynched in my one and only time playing (I hope you're all getting tired of this). And the fact that I don't want to lynch you + superstition is real = you're probably scum. Honestly, there's so much going for you and against you (like my last time) that I'm just going to put off trying to read you for another day, and hope something occurs in the meantime that will give me a better feel.


By the way @everybody, what should I be making of the fact that Awaclus has gone MIA? That's a lynch I think I'm OK with.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Where did I say town!me wouldn't switch votes to get a Lynch through? I think you're misunderstanding something I said.

[faust]

By the way @everybody, what should I be making of the fact that Awaclus has gone MIA? That's a lynch I think I'm OK with.

It's not terribly unusual for Awaclus. Prodding him will probably do nothing. That said, I would also be fine with an Awaclus lynch. I do prefer Dylan.

[Awaclus]

By the way @everybody, what should I be making of the fact that Awaclus has gone MIA? That's a lynch I think I'm OK with.

You should be making that I have already said everything I want to say for now.

[SpaceAnemone]

In that case, who else is on your "not-definitely-town" list?

Everyone other than me. But at your end of it I guess Swanraptorpy and maybe e is creeping that way. Dylan, faust and Galz are in middle ground. IDP and LL are at the townier end of things. I can't do anything about reading Awaclus for now, and I want to see more from gkrieg before judging.

I think e is a problem for me because I'm beginning to feel he's maybe a bit scummy, but that usually happens if he's being a town with wildly different ideas than I have.

Sorry, I haven't posted enough for us to disagree on stuff

Hmm.. well I certainly disagree if you think that's the most useful comment you could post about the game at this point.

Most of your posts have been very content-light. How are you not picking up a wagon at this point?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

By the way @everybody, what should I be making of the fact that Awaclus has gone MIA? That's a lynch I think I'm OK with.

I’m okay with switching to awaclus for this.

i should be around(ish) till deadline.

[Galzria]

I like my LL vote still. Would switch willingly to: Raptor, Awaclus. e read townie early, but has been slipping - I would consider him. Space struggles with D1 in general, but I feel tries harder to be more engaged as scum - which is saying something as they were mostly LA in the only D1 scum game I've seen them in. So town there for now. Faust I've said I believe is town. He's had a few scum things the past few days but would still be a horrible lynch at this point. Swan is obviously trying to be more engaged - I don't particularly see this change in general playstyle coming from scum!Swan immediately following his first scum game - that is, I think he's more likely to make a drastic change in overall style as town. Chairs had scum ticks, Gkrieg town ticks. Probably don't want to lynch there today.

Everybody else I don't really have crazy strong opinions on. Andrew is definitely different than 105, but not nearly enough for me to think he's scum instead of town here.

IDontPlay is more active than 108 for sure - but most of his posts are neutral - nothing really stands out, which is where he was D1 in 108 when lynched.

Dylan... Disregarding his own "I'm less active as town" comment, I won't lynch on VLA. As Faust notes, he would've  been VLA as town or scum, so you're at best a coin flip here, and one that's weighted town at that. Additionally, because he's been VLA, regardless of what he flips you're getting limited interaction information.

Skumpy is my 50/50 read. The self awareness drives my scum radar nuts, but it's very similar to 105 where he was town - so for now, and until I have reason to believe otherwise: town.

[gkrieg13]

Maybe finishing reread right now.

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

I think he is acting weird compared to other games is all. Do you think Dylan is scum? I am not opposed to voting for Dylan, but I don't remember a single thing he said

I think at this point, you have to believe that Datswan made up a bunch of townslips, or that he is actually town.  He does the math wrong a ton of times, and I think it would've been talked about in the scum QT about what the probabilities of everything happening was.

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

I think he is acting weird compared to other games is all. Do you think Dylan is scum? I am not opposed to voting for Dylan, but I don't remember a single thing he said

Well he has only two posts, so you did not miss much. None of them contains even a hint of a read. Early on that was sufficient reason to vote already. Now the case is strengthened by LAL.

Isn't this pretty normal for Dylan?  He was town and acted this exact way in the last game I played with him.

Awaclus seems townie to me from his vote for faust.  Faust is seeming less and less townie with his insistent tunneling.

Also, I think faust and galzria are the ones worrying about the deadline too much, which I think is scummy.

I see. I wasn't sure whether it was supposed to read (post and say) less than I have or post and (say less than I have).

FWIW, Dylan did not say anything in the posts that he did have.

Sorry for the confusion. It was meant to be read as the second one.

Andrew hasn't said anything either.

Maybe. But you do acknowledge that my vote for Dylan is just as good as your vote for Andrew?

Is that your acknowledgement that you perceive my vote for Andrew to be just as good as your vote for Dylan? I hold that my vote for Andrew is better than your vote for Dylan. I acknowledge that we're both voting for people who haven't posted any content, however I'm more comfortable voting for the person with more posts.

And of course Awaclus would say that.

PPE: 2

I think I have to agree with IDPTG here.  I think his vote on Andrew is better than faust's vote on Dylan.

unvote

I've had enough there. Moving on to vote: Andrew for managing to post and say less than I have.

Why not Dylan?

Because he hasn't really posted. I've yet to see a lurker lynch go well. What makes you so certain we should follow LAL here?

People who post are consistently scum read far more than those who do not because, as is the case with say, Dylan, there's nothing of value to assign a read to. This is largely advantageous as scum. Further, it's hugely disadvantageous as town because not only are you not creating interactions now and helping to find scum, but in future days the lack of participation can castrate the ability of the town to find scum.

LAL is not always the most likely place to find scum, but it's often the most advantageous place to lynch early in the game - either to catch lurking scum or remove unhelpful (and even hurtful) town.

Scum doesn't get an advantage by lurking, scum gets an advantage by posting a ton until they convince town to vote for someone they want to lynch.

This is demonstrably and historically false in -most- (not all) cases. In most cases scum does enough to not be the target of LAL, while participating enough to make sure they have opinions posted and varied in nature. Most scum tend to fall below average in post count, but not at the bottom. Rarely does scum want to be the leading voice in the game pushing lynches through that they know will be mislynches - and this is especially true D1, when the odds of a lynch falling on town without their extreme help is particularly high anyway.

Further, even if scum is choosing to be a loud voice in the game, they're creating far more interactions than the quieter ones, increasing both the likelihood that they're caught down the line, and increasing the chances we can follow a trail from them back to their partners.

Yes, scum CAN be a top poster and a loud voice D1 - but it's far more likely to come from town, and even if it IS from scum they're generally not the best lynch choice anyway.

With that said, vote: LaLight. Scummiest (imo) of the "middle" posters (LaLight, e, Swan, Skumpy, IDPTG, Chairs).

On the lurker side, I still think Raptor is scummiest - his responses have felt on point identical to me from his last game when he was scum - but I have no basis on which to judge his town play. Dylan could be scum, but there's nothing there to judge by. Andrew could be scum, but I'm withholding judgment for now.

Faust is town. Skumpy is townie, but feels forced (he did last game too, and like Raptor, I have no basis for scum!Skumpy). Everybody else is middling to me.

I will not lynch Faust or Skumpy today. e would probably be my next most "don't want to lynch".

This post is pretty scummy.  Why go for the middle posters, and why is chairs a middle poster?

I think splitting people up based on their activity and choosing that one posting group is overall scummier than another is crazy. I don't think I have different posting habits as scum, and the people you are saying are lurkers here are lurky as town as well, and the people with high post counts have high post counts as scum and town.

up to #203, gotta go again.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

A reread of Raptor (10 posts):

Post 1/10:

Good evening everybody. For those that don't know, Triplets claim for Raptor, Swan and Me.

That said, vote: Raptor. He cracks easily when scum.

Hello all!

Oh the pressure is unreal...  vote: galzria

OMGUS!RVS vote. Not alignment indicative or really indicative of anything, but I'm including it because it's a post.

Post 2/10:

Is everyone in this game posting the bare minimum?

Request prods on Dylan and Raptor

Yeah I’m here and up to date. I just don’t feel like I have any useful info at this time. I’ll try to contribute more.

Second post of the game and it's in response to a prod request. The game was going pretty slow at that point, but there were 50+ posts since his RVS one and he had nothing to say. This sounds like hiding to me.

Post 3/10:

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Voting faust for...no reason at all, really. We hear about it in

Post 4/10

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)
2. As it is not close dead line, why would you want to train someone without much evidence said person is scum
4. As it stands rn, Faust is almost as good of a dylan. At least when it comes to scummy evidence
3. wording seemed rude to me, I don't like being told what to do. So why not vote him.

1- that's kind of the point of posting. We try to show people why a person is scum and therefore why we should lynch them.

2- contradicted by 3 and 4. 3 is a personal reason rather than seeing faust as scummy for it. 4 says faust is as good as Dylan and raptor doesn't want to vote Dylan without much evidence, so this is inconsistent with the faust vote.

Post 5/10

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Well I was. So what?

2. As it is not close dead line, why would you want to train someone without much evidence said person is scum

So stuff will happen and we don't stall out with everyone saying "well I don't have anything worthwhile to post".

4. As it stands rn, Faust is almost as good of a dylan. At least when it comes to scummy evidence

What evidence?

3. wording seemed rude to me, I don't like being told what to do. So why not vote him.

Fair enough, but that is not really a game-related reason.

1) to me thats a scummy move
2) I did something, voted you.
4) my point exactly, thanks.
3) its all game related.. because thats what you said in the game.

PPE: 2

To me, this all comes down to 4 contradicting the earlier stance for not voting Dylan because raptor is willing to vote faust without evidence.

Post 6/10

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

vote: Faust

Please don’t tell me what to do 

Why are you voting Faust for this?

1. I feel like he is trying to sway the vote of an unexperienced player (i.e. myself)

Are you saying we shouldn't be scumreading inexperienced players?

I don’t think you should tell someone how to vote. Especially without reason.

Not much to say about this as it doesn't really say much.

Post 7/10:

Hey raptor. Any opinions yet?

yes, sorry i will do a full read list later this evening. I apologize for i can't get to it sooner, my weekends are hectic.

Now we have two posts apologizing for lack of content. Still seems like hiding.

Post 8/10:

As promised- Reads

scum pool:
Faust- I stand by my vote for the mean time. Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning. That said my vote may change by end day.
Galz- he questioned my vote on Fuast and states faust is town w/o reasoning. That said i'm not sure if they are partners. just scummy to me
Skumpy- they are just interesting... Seems to be playing less aggressive then they did in 105.
Datswan- seems to be quite for someone who normally has a lot to say

have not had much interaction with any other players and/or nothing that has caught my attention as scummy.

One of the worst reads lists I've seen. Most of the players are left off the list and next to nothing is said about those on the list. He hasn't given us anything to look at later and there isn't a semi-solid stance on there. More hiding.

Post 9/10:

As promised- Reads

scum pool:
Faust- I stand by my vote for the mean time. Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning. That said my vote may change by end day.
Galz- he questioned my vote on Fuast and states faust is town w/o reasoning. That said i'm not sure if they are partners. just scummy to me
Skumpy- they are just interesting... Seems to be playing less aggressive then they did in 105.
Datswan- seems to be quite for someone who normally has a lot to say

have not had much interaction with any other players and/or nothing that has caught my attention as scummy.

Can you elaborate on your faust read?

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

This is mostly the post that I was referring too. I know its not the best evidence, but its good enough for rn.

PPE:1

That's not elaboration. So he's still voting faust without a better reason, which is still inconsistent.

Post 10/10:

Hey Swan and Raptor, could you guys put some personal text or a Shuffle iT username or something onto your account profile so it's easier to search for you?

How are the rest of you doing targeted re-reads on Raptor?

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

Yeah I updated it, sorry.
And like swan said, we all work together. And are close friends irl.

Nothing really relevant.

So why aren't we voting raptor? All he's done is talk without saying anything. His content is non-existent and it seems like he's trying to slide under the radar so to speak.

PPE 4: I'll read them soon, I was busy with quotes.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

By the way @everybody, what should I be making of the fact that Awaclus has gone MIA? That's a lynch I think I'm OK with.

I’m okay with switching to awaclus for this.

i should be around(ish) till deadline.

Oh look. Raptor posted. And is again willing to vote for a terrible reason.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

While you're here, could you answer the following question?

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

[faust]

Dylan... Disregarding his own "I'm less active as town" comment, I won't lynch on VLA. As Faust notes, he would've  been VLA as town or scum, so you're at best a coin flip here, and one that's weighted town at that. Additionally, because he's been VLA, regardless of what he flips you're getting limited interaction information.

You won't lynch on VLA? Okay, I'm VLA for the rest of the game!

Seriously though, you are choosing to ignore the fact that Dylan has posts, and these posts are all scummy.

[faust]

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

[faust]

by the way, is Dylan still VLA or what? I thought this is over now?

dylan is not VLA at present

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

[Dylan32]

by the way, is Dylan still VLA or what? I thought this is over now?

dylan is not VLA at present

It hasn't been 24 hours yet, hold your horses.

[schadd]

in both this game and fleetwood mac i have the issue where i'm like listening to other music and want to include things from that music and not the flavor one

but like.

carrie and lowell is a really good cd.

[schadd]

routine thread maintenance.

[faust]

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

[faust]

by the way, is Dylan still VLA or what? I thought this is over now?

dylan is not VLA at present

It hasn't been 24 hours yet, hold your horses.

Yay for content! You may post more than once every 24 hours, you know.

[Galzria]

Dylan... Disregarding his own "I'm less active as town" comment, I won't lynch on VLA. As Faust notes, he would've  been VLA as town or scum, so you're at best a coin flip here, and one that's weighted town at that. Additionally, because he's been VLA, regardless of what he flips you're getting limited interaction information.

You won't lynch on VLA? Okay, I'm VLA for the rest of the game!

Correct. I believe using VLA like that is against the spirit of the game. I would not play with somebody who does that - and I would hope there would be community consequences for someone who did.

[Dylan32]

by the way, is Dylan still VLA or what? I thought this is over now?

dylan is not VLA at present

It hasn't been 24 hours yet, hold your horses.

Yay for content! You may post more than once every 24 hours, you know.

I'm well aware, but I've read the last 4 pages like three times, and all that stands out to me is your tunnel on me. And it's not that helpful to keep beating that dead horse, so I'm trying to find a reason to vote for someone else, but nothing is sticking out.

[Galzria]

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

Because he obviously did so in 105, his only other game, where he was scum.

[Dylan32]

And for what it's worth faust, we were partners in my first scum game. If a scum is ever going to have a hard time making up reads, it would be their first one, right? It would, and yet that wasn't the case for me. I made it to the end of the game and not once did people think I was having a hard time making up reads. Why you might ask? Because for me as scum, I know that I am free to say whatever the heck I want with just a little bit of reasoning and there is no reason my reads have to be right or not. As town, reads need to be right more than they are wrong if town is going to win. So as town I feel more pressure to have stuff that backs up my reads and end up struggling to figure out what to say.

[schadd]

lemme tell ya, when she walks, she waaaalks

[schadd]

and lemme tell ya, when she talks..

[schadd]

Vote count 1.5

AndrewisFTTW (3): SpaceAnemone, Skumpy, DatSwan
LaLight (1): Galzria
Dylan32 (2): faust, LaLight
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
faust (3): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus, Dylan32
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828...
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
DatSwan (1): AndrewisFTTW

not voting (0):

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in 8 and a half hours.

mod notes

• she talks

mod quotes

by the way, is Dylan still VLA or what? I thought this is over now?

dylan is not VLA at present

[Galzria]

Dylan... Disregarding his own "I'm less active as town" comment, I won't lynch on VLA. As Faust notes, he would've  been VLA as town or scum, so you're at best a coin flip here, and one that's weighted town at that. Additionally, because he's been VLA, regardless of what he flips you're getting limited interaction information.

Seriously though, you are choosing to ignore the fact that Dylan has posts, and these posts are all scummy.

He has 4 posts made beyond 10 minutes ago (6 total now).

The first post was RVS, start of game. The second post was answering a question of mine during a slow moving portion of the game.

The other two posts are the only thing that could be referred to as scummy, as they're reads posts - and as I generally am reading the game the same as he is, I don't disagree with him, I don't find them scummy.

Further, if you look at what you've picked apart in them, it's essentially to question his VLA because he noted that he would probably be less active as town than scum - as he was VLA, that's an irrelevant defense from him (as you noted), and is also an irrelevant case from you (as I noted).

[faust]

And for what it's worth faust, we were partners in my first scum game. If a scum is ever going to have a hard time making up reads, it would be their first one, right? It would, and yet that wasn't the case for me. I made it to the end of the game and not once did people think I was having a hard time making up reads. Why you might ask? Because for me as scum, I know that I am free to say whatever the heck I want with just a little bit of reasoning and there is no reason my reads have to be right or not. As town, reads need to be right more than they are wrong if town is going to win. So as town I feel more pressure to have stuff that backs up my reads and end up struggling to figure out what to say.

I'm confused. Who said you have a hard time making up reads?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

While you're here, could you answer the following question?

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

Didn't i already answer this? regardless. I'm referring to this post

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

PPE 1

[faust]

Further, if you look at what you've picked apart in them, it's essentially to question his VLA because he noted that he would probably be less active as town than scum - as he was VLA, that's an irrelevant defense from him (as you noted), and is also an irrelevant case from you (as I noted).

That is absolutely not what I said. I did not question his VLA, I pointed out that he tried to defend himself by being disingenuous about his VLA. The rest of my read is harder to explain, it may be that his reads feel wrong, they feel geared towards making them seem townie. For example in his third post he mentioned something about Awaclus, that never came back up or did anything, but it sure had people go "uh the guy keeps things secret, he must be town!"

[faust]

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

Because he obviously did so in 105, his only other game, where he was scum.

I suppose that's right. He might try to play better as scum... but then again, he might not.

But looking at the vote count, there are two scummy people + Raptor on my wagon. They can't all be scum, so Raptor seems townier from this.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

While you're here, could you answer the following question?

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

Didn't i already answer this? regardless. I'm referring to this post

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

PPE 1

Why bus?

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

Because he obviously did so in 105, his only other game, where he was scum.

I suppose that's right. He might try to play better as scum... but then again, he might not.

I read his posts from the game. He was more verbose, certainly, but I don't feel the reasoning was any better.

[Galzria]

Further, if you look at what you've picked apart in them, it's essentially to question his VLA because he noted that he would probably be less active as town than scum - as he was VLA, that's an irrelevant defense from him (as you noted), and is also an irrelevant case from you (as I noted).

That is absolutely not what I said. I did not question his VLA, I pointed out that he tried to defend himself by being disingenuous about his VLA.

I think we're essentially seeing and saying the same thing on this. I get your argument regarding his saying "I'm more town because I've posted less" being an irrelevant defense because if he was VLA, that is in no way alignment indicative. As such, such a defense from him carriers no merit.

Your argument is that his use of that defense is scummy, when his defense should simply be "I was VLA. Your argument is that he shouldn't be trying to make us think this posting style is similar to town!Dylan, when this posting style should be most similar to VLA!Dylan, which is not alignment indicative.

I get all that. The way you posted definitely read like you were questioning the VLA. Not just to me, but to others. That said, there is some merit in what you're suggesting. I just think it leads to lynching somebody who was VLA - and what you get from that is a coin flip lynch, that's naturally weighted towards town, that produces the least amount of interactional information with which to work D2.

That said, I'll reevaluate your other points on him - if you're able to elaborate further, that would be helpful.

[LaLight]

guys, I am sorry for super inactivity compared to my usual play. I got fired and now I am running in huge circles trying to find a job asap, having two interviews tomorrow and making assignments for interviews. There is a nonzero chance I will get one of the jobs tomorrow and fully will be here. Sorry again. Still fine with Dylan vote especially after

I'm trying to find a reason to vote for someone else, but nothing is sticking out.

super scummy. I feel very same when I am scum.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

[Galzria]

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

Because he obviously did so in 105, his only other game, where he was scum.

I suppose that's right. He might try to play better as scum... but then again, he might not.

But looking at the vote count, there are two scummy people + Raptor on my wagon. They can't all be scum, so Raptor seems townier from this.

Why can't they all be scum?

[LaLight]

While you're here, could you answer the following question?

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

Didn't i already answer this? regardless. I'm referring to this post

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

PPE 1

Why bus?

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

Because he obviously did so in 105, his only other game, where he was scum.

I suppose that's right. He might try to play better as scum... but then again, he might not.

I read his posts from the game. He was more verbose, certainly, but I don't feel the reasoning was any better.

I am not sure if it is me but clearly Raptor mixes up the terminology

[Galzria]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

Ha. Was just about to post this.

[LaLight]

hm, after looking at vote count, what's up with Andrew wagon? I missed why people are voting him at all

[LaLight]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

I don't believe it

[Galzria]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

I don't believe it

Why

[LaLight]

oh shit deadline is soon. I will be here at... some times in next 4-5 hours. I am rehearsing the presentation currently

[Galzria]

While you're here, could you answer the following question?

@Raptor- what did you mean by the following sentence?

Faust- . . .Scummy to push for a bus with no reasoning.

Didn't i already answer this? regardless. I'm referring to this post

Well okay, if you don't have reads, just vote Dylan. That way at least you'll do something helpful.

PPE 1

Why bus?

I will be able to check in here for maybe 4 more hours and then I'll be gone. Anyone willing to convince me on another lynch should better do so fast.

Why Dylan over Raptor at this point?

Because I think Raptor is not particularly scummy. What you pointed out is annoying, sure, but I actually think he would present better reasoning as scum.

Because he obviously did so in 105, his only other game, where he was scum.

I suppose that's right. He might try to play better as scum... but then again, he might not.

I read his posts from the game. He was more verbose, certainly, but I don't feel the reasoning was any better.

I am not sure if it is me but clearly Raptor mixes up the terminology

Why

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'll be away for a little, but I'll come back.

[Galzria]

oh shit deadline is soon. I will be here at... some times in next 4-5 hours. I am rehearsing the presentation currently

10 hours

[LaLight]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

I don't believe it

Why

this doesn't happen like this. I don't know. Otherwise Raptor would correct himself up to this point

[LaLight]

oh shit deadline is soon. I will be here at... some times in next 4-5 hours. I am rehearsing the presentation currently

10 hours

schadd says 8,5 in the last vc

[Galzria]

oh shit deadline is soon. I will be here at... some times in next 4-5 hours. I am rehearsing the presentation currently

10 hours

schadd says 8,5 in the last vc

Sorry, you're correct. 8 hours.

[LaLight]

oh shit deadline is soon. I will be here at... some times in next 4-5 hours. I am rehearsing the presentation currently

10 hours

schadd says 8,5 in the last vc

Sorry, you're correct. 8 hours.

it will be 5 am at where I live so sorry, won't be here.

[LaLight]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

I don't believe it

Why

this doesn't happen like this. I don't know. Otherwise Raptor would correct himself up to this point

ok even if this is a correct assumption, I feel like lynching Dylan is still the best course of action

[AndrewisFTTW]

Really? Nobody into a DatSwan lynch?

I'll be around for a few more hours but not for deadline.

[Galzria]

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Wild theory: "bus" was a scumslip from raptor. Scum!faust is busing scum!Dylan because he doesn't think Dylan will actually get lynched and if he does, hey, faust found scum!

I don't believe it

Why

this doesn't happen like this. I don't know. Otherwise Raptor would correct himself up to this point

What, and draw attention to the fact that he said bus? Not convinced.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

The upside of a Dylan lynch is that if he's scum, my wild theory is looking pretty good. I'd still rather start with raptor.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

And I agree about not lynching the V/LA person because I think we all have too much integrity to strategically claim V/LA to dodge a lynch, but he's had time to contribute.

[faust]

And I agree about not lynching the V/LA person because I think we all have too much integrity to strategically claim V/LA to dodge a lynch, but he's had time to contribute.

Noone is VLA.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Dylan... Disregarding his own "I'm less active as town" comment, I won't lynch on VLA. As Faust notes, he would've  been VLA as town or scum, so you're at best a coin flip here, and one that's weighted town at that. Additionally, because he's been VLA, regardless of what he flips you're getting limited interaction information.

You won't lynch on VLA? Okay, I'm VLA for the rest of the game!

I know you weren't serious, but I wanted to put it out there. And my comment was specifically about Dylan and how he's not V/LA at the moment.

[Swowl]

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

Not going to go into the whole Andrew specific thing here... but primary issue I have with the Dylan wagon right now is... the dude is back. Like half the wagon is rolling because of lack of responses. If he is skum I just think he would be more responsive. Not a great argument, but still kind of to be considered.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

Not going to go into the whole Andrew specific thing here... but primary issue I have with the Dylan wagon right now is... the dude is back. Like half the wagon is rolling because of lack of responses. If he is skum I just think he would be more responsive. Not a great argument, but still kind of to be considered.

If you're not into Dylan or raptor, convince me of why I should vote Andrew.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

And if you're not into Andrew, move your vote. I'd rather not do this at deadline since we have a decent number of people that won't be around.

[faust]

Alright, I'm gone. Good luck with everything.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Really? Nobody into a DatSwan lynch?

I'll be around for a few more hours but not for deadline.

Andrew, what do you think of a raptor lynch? Would you move to Dylan if needed? Why should I vote DatSwan?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Raptor, do you have anything to say in response to my read of you?

[Swowl]

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

Not going to go into the whole Andrew specific thing here... but primary issue I have with the Dylan wagon right now is... the dude is back. Like half the wagon is rolling because of lack of responses. If he is skum I just think he would be more responsive. Not a great argument, but still kind of to be considered.

If you're not into Dylan or raptor, convince me of why I should vote Andrew.

I am not very good at convincing people of anything on D1, especially because I have such a limited play history with all of you.
My reasons are pretty much
1) Very different from 105, in which he was Town
2) Opening vote, Space vote, and my vote all feel kind of off to me. Kind of just throwing out a vote to throw out a vote.

[Skumpy]

Really? Nobody into a DatSwan lynch?

I'll be around for a few more hours but not for deadline.

For DatSwan, obviously it's not happening, and for reasons which I'm still not saying, I'm not voting him Day 1. And I feel the same way about basically everybody that doesn't have a wagon - LaLight, Galzria, Awaclus, 2.7 (and I also do not understand how I am the only person to have voted him).

The upside of a Dylan lynch is that if he's scum, my wild theory is looking pretty good. I'd still rather start with raptor.

Again, this isn't happening. And again, I'm really going back and forth here. On the one hand, it is very similar to 105. But on the other hand, as DatSwan said, he has to know the same shtick isn't going to fly. Best to wait him out and see if he slips with something more telling than the 'bus'. And what do you have against the Andrew lynch?

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

Firstly: it looks like Dylan will be the lynch. The only other options at this point are faust, and that wagon seems to have exhausted all fuel, and Andrew, which also seems done. My order at this point is Andrew > Dylan > faust, and faust is last just because of previously stated reasons. I remember thinking my first game that no lynch was better than a lynch because we know nothing. Now, I'm much older, and I understand that lynching gives us information and also narrows down the suspect pool, so if I have to switch I probably will ( I say probably because I'm not sure I can do it with faust).

I'm posting during class when I should be paying attention to threading, so I'll get around to your last part in like 2 hours (still time enough, IMO). Short answer (which then became long) is: I like the long post that faust then tore into. Not necessarily because of the contents (and I did agree with you, the VLA defense sounded sketchy, but I didn't feel comfortable with faust calling it a 'supposed' VLA), but because it seemed heartfelt, and reminded me of my heartfelt post. I'm sure Dylan's smarter than me and is more of capable of forging falsities, which is why I'm still willing to lynch him if need be, but it's a point in his favor. As for Andrew, he's different than 105. He was not actively pushing against anybody like he did against you until the very end of the day when he's going for DatSwan, which everybody either disagrees with or doesn't want to bother it. I don't understand the argument that you mix up playstyles. I feel the same way as I did my first game (extremely confident until I start writing and reading back), so I'm doing the same things. Not because I want to, but because it's what's natural. I know I can't put on my chameleon mask and play differently even if I wanted to. Maybe some people here can, I don't think Andrew is one of them.

Other things too which I will get around to looking back for later.

PPE: DatSwan, you did the exact same thing with me...

[Skumpy]

Oh, forgot to say

guys, I am sorry for super inactivity compared to my usual play. I got fired and now I am running in huge circles trying to find a job asap, having two interviews tomorrow and making assignments for interviews.

I'm 23, living in Russia, working for some Google analogue of my country and spending too much time on this forum.

Geez. Fuck your Russian Google analogue

But seriously, sorry to hear that. Remember, this is just a fun game that features an excessive and discouraging amount of personal attacks on people and their character. If you need to out or stop for a while, we understand, no hard feelings. Best of luck!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Really? Nobody into a DatSwan lynch?

I'll be around for a few more hours but not for deadline.

Andrew, what do you think of a raptor lynch? Would you move to Dylan if needed? Why should I vote DatSwan?

Raptor I don't feel one way or another about. Yes I'll move to Dylan now that faust isn't coming back and nobody else seems into DatSwan.

Vote: Dylan

[AndrewisFTTW]

Guys, please. You can't seriously just say "he's not doing exactly the same things he did in the last game where he was town so he must be scum". That's not a valid reason and you'll never see me vote someone for it. If you do, lynch me.

[Awaclus]

Guys, please. You can't seriously just say "he's not doing exactly the same things he did in the last game where he was town so he must be scum". That's not a valid reason and you'll never see me vote someone for it. If you do, lynch me.

We don't need a valid reason though, you need a valid reason why we shouldn't lynch you.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys, thought I would have more time for this and I don’t.

[LaLight]

I am here but i am devastated and going to sleep sorry. Quick skimming of the thread showed me nothing changed vote-wise, so i support Dylan lynch

[LaLight]

Oh, forgot to say

guys, I am sorry for super inactivity compared to my usual play. I got fired and now I am running in huge circles trying to find a job asap, having two interviews tomorrow and making assignments for interviews.

I'm 23, living in Russia, working for some Google analogue of my country and spending too much time on this forum.

Geez. Fuck your Russian Google analogue

But seriously, sorry to hear that. Remember, this is just a fun game that features an excessive and discouraging amount of personal attacks on people and their character. If you need to out or stop for a while, we understand, no hard feelings. Best of luck!

The funniest thing is i left that firm for better offer but it was not better so i am returning lol

[AndrewisFTTW]

Guys, please. You can't seriously just say "he's not doing exactly the same things he did in the last game where he was town so he must be scum". That's not a valid reason and you'll never see me vote someone for it. If you do, lynch me.

We don't need a valid reason though, you need a valid reason why we shouldn't lynch you.

Um, no? But in any case my valid reason is you don't have a valid reason. The whole devil's advocate thing is really old by the way, and is not helpful whatsoever. But hey, if everybody else can't convince you I guess it's pointless for me to try.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Raptor, do you have anything to say in response to my read of you?

Sorry I don’t post more helpful content? All you did was point out that you don’t agree with my posts. Don’t want to blame that on being new. But I guess I’m not also the best at reads. Especially when it comes to D1 and not much to base reads off of.

[Awaclus]

Um, no?

Um, yes. Try to remove any of the votes people have on you and see how well that works out. In the meantime, I can easily Vote: Andrew without any reason whatsoever.

[schadd]

i'm taking this but i prob won't be able to use

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm here now and mostly caught up.

I'd consider moving to Dylan or Raptor this close to deadline I guess. Not so sure about faust.

I need to fix my vote counter to look at everyone's voting patterns. Bedtime is in about an hour, and I also still have to go maintain my Duolingo streak...

[AndrewisFTTW]

Um, no?

Um, yes. Try to remove any of the votes people have on you and see how well that works out. In the meantime, I can easily Vote: Andrew without any reason whatsoever.

Right. No reason whatsoever, besides the fact that you just like to be contrary. Wouldn't expect anything less from you.

[SpaceAnemone]

i'm taking this but i prob won't be able to use

You could fill it in with a vote count! I think my script is working with your relaxed rules now. This is what I think the current state of play looks like:

Dylan32 (4): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Dylan32
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
AndrewisFTTW (4): SpaceAnemone, Skumpy, DatSwan, Awaclus
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame

[SpaceAnemone]

Sorry guys, thought I would have more time for this and I don’t.

You're still voting for me, you know. Unless you're trying to position yourself carefully as the off-wagon scum, how about moving your vote somewhere else?

[gkrieg13]

vote: Andrew

I think he has been scummier than Dylan has been

PPE Ya, changed that.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys, thought I would have more time for this and I don’t.

You're still voting for me, you know. Unless you're trying to position yourself carefully as the off-wagon scum, how about moving your vote somewhere else?

I was only voting for you because my split personality was voting for you and I haven't caught up all the way yet.

[SpaceAnemone]

I got fired and now I am running in huge circles trying to find a job asap

*hugs*

[gkrieg13]

L-2 btw.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Man, you guys can't read me at all I guess. Not sure if this will help me in my next scum game or not.

[Skumpy]

i'm taking this but i prob won't be able to use

You could fill it in with a vote count! I think my script is working with your relaxed rules now. This is what I think the current state of play looks like:

Dylan32 (4): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Dylan32
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
AndrewisFTTW (4): SpaceAnemone, Skumpy, DatSwan, Awaclus
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame

I was about to post that I reread Dylan and I wasn't sure why I gave him so much towncred for the post yesterday and I would be willing to be the one to help make a lynch happen, since so many of you Europeans are asleep.

Then Andrew got more votes than Dylan.

[schadd]

ok wait how sophisticated is your vote counter thingo space because there's someone on mafiascum that was trying to make a fully automated one & experiencing strugg

[Skumpy]

So it's 5-4, with Dylan, 2.7, Raptor, and IDPTG missing.

I don't expect the first two to be showing up before the deadline based on their activity, so if XX and IDPTG want to make a stance, now would be a good time. My vote is still pretty flexible, so I could be a 7th vote for Dylan if needed.

Keep in mind the wagon on Andrew has now accelerated much faster than Dylan's. I'm tired and I have no idea what that signifies. Just stating facts over here.

Man, you guys can't read me at all I guess. Not sure if this will help me in my next scum game or not.

Now this is sounding more familiar.

[Skumpy]

ok wait how sophisticated is your vote counter thingo space because there's someone on mafiascum that was trying to make a fully automated one & experiencing strugg

I feel inspired to make one myself now. Not gonna, but I'm inspired.

This doesn't sound overly difficult to do. Easy enough to search for "vote:x" and "unvote" and then pair it with the poster. But how do you ignore the votes that other people quote?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

So it's 5-4, with Dylan, 2.7, Raptor, and IDPTG missing.

I don't expect the first two to be showing up before the deadline based on their activity, so if XX and IDPTG want to make a stance, now would be a good time. My vote is still pretty flexible, so I could be a 7th vote for Dylan if needed.

Keep in mind the wagon on Andrew has now accelerated much faster than Dylan's. I'm tired and I have no idea what that signifies. Just stating facts over here.

Man, you guys can't read me at all I guess. Not sure if this will help me in my next scum game or not.

Now this is sounding more familiar.

I think I would rather the Dylan vote over the Andrew vote. But I will go either way in order to have a lunch on D1

[SpaceAnemone]

So it's 5-4, with Dylan, 2.7, Raptor, and IDPTG missing.

I don't expect the first two to be showing up before the deadline based on their activity, so if XX and IDPTG want to make a stance, now would be a good time. My vote is still pretty flexible, so I could be a 7th vote for Dylan if needed.

Keep in mind the wagon on Andrew has now accelerated much faster than Dylan's. I'm tired and I have no idea what that signifies. Just stating facts over here.

Man, you guys can't read me at all I guess. Not sure if this will help me in my next scum game or not.

Now this is sounding more familiar.

I think I would rather the Dylan vote over the Andrew vote. But I will go either way in order to have a lunch on D1

Yeah, D1 is bad enough without having to skip lunches :-P

Likewise, I'm felxible enough to move to Dylan if necessary, but only in the next 20-30 minutes, because I'll be asleep after that.

[Awaclus]

Um, no?

Um, yes. Try to remove any of the votes people have on you and see how well that works out. In the meantime, I can easily Vote: Andrew without any reason whatsoever.

Right. No reason whatsoever, besides the fact that you just like to be contrary. Wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Indeed, so it shouldn't be difficult for you to convince me to remove my vote if there's no reason to think you're scum, right?

[SpaceAnemone]

But how do you ignore the votes that other people quote?

I have a little recursive routine that strips quotes out of posts... not hard :-)

The main code i use to parse the content out of the html game thread is quite messy, but it gets the job done as long as nobody changes the way the html is organised.

The least-elegant bit by far is all my attempts to encode the player list, making it deal with players swap in and out, and having it robust to the various typos or short-form names people use for each other.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Um, no?

Um, yes. Try to remove any of the votes people have on you and see how well that works out. In the meantime, I can easily Vote: Andrew without any reason whatsoever.

Right. No reason whatsoever, besides the fact that you just like to be contrary. Wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Indeed, so it shouldn't be difficult for you to convince me to remove my vote if there's no reason to think you're scum, right?

Not interested. Go ahead and troll if you want. Or contribute and try to lynch scum. Up to you.

[Skumpy]

so I'm trying to find a reason to vote for someone else, but nothing is sticking out.

As town, reads need to be right more than they are wrong if town is going to win. So as town I feel more pressure to have stuff that backs up my reads and end up struggling to figure out what to say.

Like, sure, I get it, being wrong sucks. At the same though, there's 3 scum around you, and to say there's nothing at all suspicious you've seen besides faust, I just can't get behind. Like, I agree, I don't know who, but I'm sure there's at least one person who I've been pointing at as scum who's going to end up being scum. There's a plentiful cast of kool kats this game, I would not say that everybody is rubbing off on me as town.

But how do you ignore the votes that other people quote?

I have a little recursive routine that strips quotes out of posts... not hard :-)

The main code i use to parse the content out of the html game thread is quite messy, but it gets the job done as long as nobody changes the way the html is organised.

The least-elegant bit by far is all my attempts to encode the player list, making it deal with players swap in and out, and having it robust to the various typos or short-form names people use for each other.

Makes sense.

Having done 1 scraping thing as like my only project ever, I know exactly what you mean by the HTML thing There was this like 5 character string in all the tags i wanted that changed every day for some reason, so I just matched the start of them and prayed that the tag headers (I forget the terminology now) never got renamed.

That does sound like a major pain. Especially when schadd's around, I'd imagine.

[Skumpy]

Andrew's getting salty. Then again, it's tough not to in the face of Awaclus.

I'm going to feel like a moron for this but Vote: Dylan. I'm just really tired now and the longer I think the less I'm going to realize.

Nap time, I will switch back in an hour if needed.

[Dylan32]

I'm around. Frankly, I think both of the leading wagons probably on town, so I'm not thrilled about voting for Andrew. I'm not even sure if voting Andrew would give us more information than just getting rid of me, unless of course he is actually scum... Is there anyone who is actually convinced that Andrew is really scum, or is it just sort of a low info, better than nothing wagon?
ppe 2

[Skumpy]

Damnit, now I have to stay up

[Swowl]

I'm around. Frankly, I think both of the leading wagons probably on town, so I'm not thrilled about voting for Andrew. I'm not even sure if voting Andrew would give us more information than just getting rid of me, unless of course he is actually scum... Is there anyone who is actually convinced that Andrew is really scum, or is it just sort of a low info, better than nothing wagon?
ppe 2

Openly admitting i just think he is the best of a shitty bunch of options.

[Awaclus]

Not interested. Go ahead and troll if you want. Or contribute and try to lynch scum. Up to you.

I am contributing. The one here who isn't contributing is you.

[2.71828.....]

Who are we lynching? Not me? Good

[Dylan32]

Ok, so my low-activity comparison was kicked off by faust referring to my "supposed" VLA. I was really VLA, as whoever noticed that I literally wasn't on f.ds for 3 days has established. However, IF faust doubted that I was actually VLA--as his wording implied--I was saying that low activity would be more likely to point to me as being town than scum based on past games, not that my VLA should be towny. I definitely could have said that more clearly, but whatever.

Also:

And for what it's worth faust, we were partners in my first scum game. If a scum is ever going to have a hard time making up reads, it would be their first one, right? It would, and yet that wasn't the case for me. I made it to the end of the game and not once did people think I was having a hard time making up reads. Why you might ask? Because for me as scum, I know that I am free to say whatever the heck I want with just a little bit of reasoning and there is no reason my reads have to be right or not. As town, reads need to be right more than they are wrong if town is going to win. So as town I feel more pressure to have stuff that backs up my reads and end up struggling to figure out what to say.

I'm confused. Who said you have a hard time making up reads?

I was thinking someone mentioned it, but I guess not. However, after you ask that, LL went there.

guys, I am sorry for super inactivity compared to my usual play. I got fired and now I am running in huge circles trying to find a job asap, having two interviews tomorrow and making assignments for interviews. There is a nonzero chance I will get one of the jobs tomorrow and fully will be here. Sorry again. Still fine with Dylan vote especially after

I'm trying to find a reason to vote for someone else, but nothing is sticking out.

super scummy. I feel very same when I am scum.

This actually makes LL feel super bad to me since I had literally already said that isn't at all how I feel as scum, and yet he felt he needed more justification for his vote on me, so he said that. It may not happen, but is it possible for enough of us to Vote: LL in time?

ppe 3

[Dylan32]

Probably not. Didn't realize everyone had left him...

[Dylan32]

There are currently 6 online total, so not impossible if everyone went there.

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG is still the place to be

[2.71828.....]

Willing to help lynch people. I will be around until deadline

[Dylan32]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

[2.71828.....]

So it's 5-4, with Dylan, 2.7, Raptor, and IDPTG missing.

I don't expect the first two to be showing up before the deadline based on their activity,

I never miss a deadline

[Dylan32]

So it's 5-4, with Dylan, 2.7, Raptor, and IDPTG missing.

I don't expect the first two to be showing up before the deadline based on their activity,

I never miss a deadline

Ironic that he called out the 2 people that showed up :p

[Skumpy]

I'm around. Frankly, I think both of the leading wagons probably on town, so I'm not thrilled about voting for Andrew. I'm not even sure if voting Andrew would give us more information than just getting rid of me, unless of course he is actually scum... Is there anyone who is actually convinced that Andrew is really scum, or is it just sort of a low info, better than nothing wagon?
ppe 2

I never actually said it, and I know this is about to get really Skummy, but so be it:
Andrew's not my top scum pick at this point, nor has be been for most of the day. Real top pick is staying a secret. Of you, faust and him, he was the best option until my delirious brain working on like 2 hours of sleep from yesterday decided to vote for you by a narrow margin. I'm not sure why you think he's town, there's been a push/pull between you and him. Could be scum not caring who gets lynched, could be scum trying to get their guy to stay alive. Or could be faust all along. Now that I think about it, it probably is, but it's not an option anymore.

PPE many: It's too late for that now...
It's either you, Andrew, or nobody.

[Skumpy]

So it's 5-4, with Dylan, 2.7, Raptor, and IDPTG missing.

I don't expect the first two to be showing up before the deadline based on their activity,

I never miss a deadline

Ironic that he called out the 2 people that showed up :p

XX showed up too. Didn't vote though.

[Dylan32]

I'm around. Frankly, I think both of the leading wagons probably on town, so I'm not thrilled about voting for Andrew. I'm not even sure if voting Andrew would give us more information than just getting rid of me, unless of course he is actually scum... Is there anyone who is actually convinced that Andrew is really scum, or is it just sort of a low info, better than nothing wagon?
ppe 2

I never actually said it, and I know this is about to get really Skummy, but so be it:
Andrew's not my top scum pick at this point, nor has be been for most of the day. Real top pick is staying a secret. Of you, faust and him, he was the best option until my delirious brain working on like 2 hours of sleep from yesterday decided to vote for you by a narrow margin. I'm not sure why you think he's town, there's been a push/pull between you and him. Could be scum not caring who gets lynched, could be scum trying to get their guy to stay alive. Or could be faust all along. Now that I think about it, it probably is, but it's not an option anymore.

PPE many: It's too late for that now...
It's either you, Andrew, or nobody.

What push or pull between the two of us has there been? Like between people going back and forth between our wagons?

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

[2.71828.....]

I mostly think town!IDPTG would have switched back to Andrew.

No lynching is good for scum, voting for someone that no one else is voting for is scummy (looking at you, e)

[Dylan32]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

I generally don't vote for people for making a bad case. I've seen as many bad cases come from town as scum, so I'm not sure that is alignment indicative at all. The timing of the switch off of Andrew is interesting though. I didn't notice that before. Well, that at least makes me feel a bit better about the possibility of having to vote andrew.

ppe 1

[Skumpy]

I'm around. Frankly, I think both of the leading wagons probably on town, so I'm not thrilled about voting for Andrew. I'm not even sure if voting Andrew would give us more information than just getting rid of me, unless of course he is actually scum... Is there anyone who is actually convinced that Andrew is really scum, or is it just sort of a low info, better than nothing wagon?
ppe 2

I never actually said it, and I know this is about to get really Skummy, but so be it:
Andrew's not my top scum pick at this point, nor has be been for most of the day. Real top pick is staying a secret. Of you, faust and him, he was the best option until my delirious brain working on like 2 hours of sleep from yesterday decided to vote for you by a narrow margin. I'm not sure why you think he's town, there's been a push/pull between you and him. Could be scum not caring who gets lynched, could be scum trying to get their guy to stay alive. Or could be faust all along. Now that I think about it, it probably is, but it's not an option anymore.

PPE many: It's too late for that now...
It's either you, Andrew, or nobody.

What push or pull between the two of us has there been? Like between people going back and forth between our wagons?

Sure, but also like it's been up in the air who's going to get lynched. The wagons have been accelerating at different paces. Or it's felt that way anyways. I don't know what I'm saying, maybe when I'm more lucid.

Speaking of which Unvote
Guess I'm going to have to tough it out for 85 minutes. 4-4 now I think

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

I generally don't vote for people for making a bad case. I've seen as many bad cases come from town as scum, so I'm not sure that is alignment indicative at all. The timing of the switch off of Andrew is interesting though. I didn't notice that before. Well, that at least makes me feel a bit better about the possibility of having to vote andrew.

ppe 1

Are you trying to read partner interactions there? It is tempting, but doubtful. I think scum likes a no lynch more than a mislynch here

[2.71828.....]

What is the vote count?

And don't unvote, vote IDPTG

[2.71828.....]

3rd party candidate for the lynch!

[Dylan32]

I'm not totally sure how much longer I'll be able to be around, so I guess Vote: Andrew. If he flips scum, IDPTG definitely looks worse.  If not, I would seriously look at one of faust, LL, and probably someone who got on the Andrew wagon in a scummy way. I'll look to see if anyone stands out like that while I'm here.

ppe 3

[Dylan32]

3rd party candidate for the lynch!

Those never work out haha

[SpaceAnemone]

Phone posting from bed about to go to sleep. I think a lynch will go through without me having to move my vote, so I'll leave it there. I really hate small-hours deadlines because I keep staying up too late, making decisions when I'm too tired and then being sleep-deprived the next day too.

PPE 4. Wow, inviting and leaching a vote nowhere at all is really unhelpful this close to deadline!

PPE 5 more...

[Dylan32]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

I generally don't vote for people for making a bad case. I've seen as many bad cases come from town as scum, so I'm not sure that is alignment indicative at all. The timing of the switch off of Andrew is interesting though. I didn't notice that before. Well, that at least makes me feel a bit better about the possibility of having to vote andrew.

ppe 1

Are you trying to read partner interactions there? It is tempting, but doubtful. I think scum likes a no lynch more than a mislynch here

Not sure why they would like no lynch over mislynch, exactly. I guess it is less info for us, but is it really worth it D1? Also, is IDPTG who would notice and play for a no lynch over a mislynch?

[Dylan32]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

I generally don't vote for people for making a bad case. I've seen as many bad cases come from town as scum, so I'm not sure that is alignment indicative at all. The timing of the switch off of Andrew is interesting though. I didn't notice that before. Well, that at least makes me feel a bit better about the possibility of having to vote andrew.

ppe 1

Are you trying to read partner interactions there? It is tempting, but doubtful. I think scum likes a no lynch more than a mislynch here

Not sure why they would like no lynch over mislynch, exactly. I guess it is less info for us, but is it really worth it D1? Also, is IDPTG someonewho would notice and play for a no lynch over a mislynch?

edit: missed word

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

I generally don't vote for people for making a bad case. I've seen as many bad cases come from town as scum, so I'm not sure that is alignment indicative at all. The timing of the switch off of Andrew is interesting though. I didn't notice that before. Well, that at least makes me feel a bit better about the possibility of having to vote andrew.

ppe 1

Are you trying to read partner interactions there? It is tempting, but doubtful. I think scum likes a no lynch more than a mislynch here

Not sure why they would like no lynch over mislynch, exactly. I guess it is less info for us, but is it really worth it D1? Also, is IDPTG who would notice and play for a no lynch over a mislynch?

I don't know about "going for a no lynch" more of an "ambivalent if a lynch doesn't happen"

[AndrewisFTTW]

I will be unable in about an hour so let's get this done soon.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I mean I will be unable to post any more in an hour.

[Dylan32]

IDPTG is still the place to be

Why though? My gut was actually reading him as more towny than usual.

The case on raptor is bad. Original Gut read. He actually was against Andrew before it was cool to lynch Andrew then switched to raptor. So, yeah. Just feeling like a decent lynch

I generally don't vote for people for making a bad case. I've seen as many bad cases come from town as scum, so I'm not sure that is alignment indicative at all. The timing of the switch off of Andrew is interesting though. I didn't notice that before. Well, that at least makes me feel a bit better about the possibility of having to vote andrew.

ppe 1

Are you trying to read partner interactions there? It is tempting, but doubtful. I think scum likes a no lynch more than a mislynch here

Not sure why they would like no lynch over mislynch, exactly. I guess it is less info for us, but is it really worth it D1? Also, is IDPTG who would notice and play for a no lynch over a mislynch?

I don't know about "going for a no lynch" more of an "ambivalent if a lynch doesn't happen"

So what does this say about your vote sitting on a 1-man wagon still? 

[2.71828.....]

Hey, my wagon is amazing. And I will vote to lynch, just figuring it all out right now

[2.71828.....]

Can someone post what the current vote count is? Mobile makes it hard to keep track

[Skumpy]

Hey, my wagon is amazing. And I will vote to lynch, just figuring it all out right now

Andrew 5
Dylan 4

You, me, Raptor, IDPTG are off.

And I think I've got a decision

[Skumpy]

That was not the right quote

[Dylan32]

Can someone post what the current vote count is? Mobile makes it hard to keep track

If previous posters were accurate, it's Andrew (5), Dylan (4)
ppe 2

[Galzria]

I'm here

[2.71828.....]

I'm here

Yeah, us west-coasters have to unite for this deadline

[Awaclus]

I'm also here.

[AndrewisFTTW]

The case against me is pretty much I am supposedly playing different from how I played as town in some previous game. That's it. Gkrieg just said I'm scummier than Dylan and that's it. DatSwan says some votes of mine are scummy. Nothing to back it up. Awaclus is voting me because... well why does Awaclus do anything he does? I have no idea. Dylan is voting for me out of self preservation. Fine. I can't remember who else is voting but seriously. There's nothing there!

[Galzria]

One hour to deadline? I'm at work but can follow. Haven't read last 75 posts or so. Doing so now.

[Awaclus]

The case against me

What's the case for you being town?

[Galzria]

The case against me

What's the case for you being town?

What's the case for you being town?

[2.71828.....]

The case against me

What's the case for you being town?

What's the case for you being town?

Mating a case for yourself being town is almost useless. Other people have to do out for you

[AndrewisFTTW]

The case against me

What's the case for you being town?

I'll eat dinner at the dinner table and turn off the TV by 8:30. Ummmm OH! And I'll be nice to the dog.

[2.71828.....]

The case against me

What's the case for you being town?

I'll eat dinner at the dinner table and turn off the TV by 8:30. Ummmm OH! And I'll be nice to the dog.

You should always be nice to the dog

[2.71828.....]

I still like IDPTG as a viable candidate with the number of people we have online

[2.71828.....]

Probably leaning toward Dylan otherwise

[schadd]

Vote count 1.6

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (4): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW
faust (1): Xxraptorslayer96
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828...
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame

not voting (1): Skumpy

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like an hour.

mod notes

• phone

[AndrewisFTTW]

I still like IDPTG as a viable candidate with the number of people we have online

I'm down. But I'd like to see other votes there first.

[AndrewisFTTW]

And apparently I'm at L-1.

[Skumpy]

schadd, I unvoted

[2.71828.....]

I still like IDPTG as a viable candidate with the number of people we have online

I'm down. But I'd like to see other votes there first.

That's acceptable.

[2.71828.....]

schadd, I unvoted

You should correct that and vote. If you are going to lynch Andrew just do it. If you don't think he should be lynched vote somewhere else. By not voting you are (in essence) voting for the player with the most votes, Andrew

[Skumpy]

schadd, I unvoted

You should correct that and vote. If you are going to lynch Andrew just do it. If you don't think he should be lynched vote somewhere else. By not voting you are (in essence) voting for the player with the most votes, Andrew

To be specific I switched to Dylan and then unvoted, forgot about that first part. What about you? We're not voting IDPTG, there's only 8 people by my count who have a shot at voting him before the deadline. Who did you want to go for?

[Dylan32]

schadd, I unvoted

You should correct that and vote. If you are going to lynch Andrew just do it. If you don't think he should be lynched vote somewhere else. By not voting you are (in essence) voting for the player with the most votes, Andrew

To be specific I switched to Dylan and then unvoted, forgot about that first part. What about you? We're not voting IDPTG, there's only 8 people by my count who have a shot at voting him before the deadline. Who did you want to go for?

8 people would be enough to make that happen. Not that it is likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible yet. Not that I think he should stay there, mind you.

[Galzria]

I won't participate in a last minute change.

[Galzria]

I won't participate in a last minute change.

Err, to someone not Andrew/Dylan at this point. Just to be clear.

[2.71828.....]

I won't participate in a last minute change.

Ok, fine. Spoil the party.

Vote: Dylan

[Galzria]

I won't participate in a last minute change.

Err, to someone not Andrew/Dylan at this point. Just to be clear.

I wouldn't even switch to LL or Raptor at this point, my two biggest scum reads.

[Skumpy]

schadd, I unvoted

You should correct that and vote. If you are going to lynch Andrew just do it. If you don't think he should be lynched vote somewhere else. By not voting you are (in essence) voting for the player with the most votes, Andrew

To be specific I switched to Dylan and then unvoted, forgot about that first part. What about you? We're not voting IDPTG, there's only 8 people by my count who have a shot at voting him before the deadline. Who did you want to go for?

8 people would be enough to make that happen. Not that it is likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible yet. Not that I think he should stay there, mind you.

It's also not impossible that I'll win the lottery. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it 

I'm just now realizing that neither of you have claimed a role despite being on the chopping block. I'm going to assume VT unless you say otherwise, because if one you does have a role, that will make the decision much easier.

[Galzria]

 Both L-2, 37 minutes out, Raptor/IDPTG/Skumpy not voting

[Skumpy]

Don't pressure me!

[Swowl]

Sorry guys - i have to start coaching now so my vote will remain here. Hopefully will see you on the other side.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Just got back and caught up. I'll be here until deadline.

[2.71828.....]

Don't pressure me!

You should feel pressured

[Galzria]

Don't pressure me!

Don't choose wrong. This entire lynch hinges on your vote!

[2.71828.....]

Just got back and caught up. I'll be here until deadline.

You want to lynch yourself?

[AndrewisFTTW]

schadd, I unvoted

You should correct that and vote. If you are going to lynch Andrew just do it. If you don't think he should be lynched vote somewhere else. By not voting you are (in essence) voting for the player with the most votes, Andrew

To be specific I switched to Dylan and then unvoted, forgot about that first part. What about you? We're not voting IDPTG, there's only 8 people by my count who have a shot at voting him before the deadline. Who did you want to go for?

8 people would be enough to make that happen. Not that it is likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible yet. Not that I think he should stay there, mind you.

It's also not impossible that I'll win the lottery. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it 

I'm just now realizing that neither of you have claimed a role despite being on the chopping block. I'm going to assume VT unless you say otherwise, because if one you does have a role, that will make the decision much easier.

Usually people only claim at L-1.

[2.71828.....]

schadd, I unvoted

You should correct that and vote. If you are going to lynch Andrew just do it. If you don't think he should be lynched vote somewhere else. By not voting you are (in essence) voting for the player with the most votes, Andrew

To be specific I switched to Dylan and then unvoted, forgot about that first part. What about you? We're not voting IDPTG, there's only 8 people by my count who have a shot at voting him before the deadline. Who did you want to go for?

8 people would be enough to make that happen. Not that it is likely, but that doesn't mean it's impossible yet. Not that I think he should stay there, mind you.

It's also not impossible that I'll win the lottery. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it 

I'm just now realizing that neither of you have claimed a role despite being on the chopping block. I'm going to assume VT unless you say otherwise, because if one you does have a role, that will make the decision much easier.

Usually people only claim at L-1.

Usually is a strong word

[2.71828.....]

I mean, if Dylan or Andrew want to claim, I am not opposed to it.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Just got back and caught up. I'll be here until deadline.

You want to lynch yourself?

If it would stop a no-lynch, yes, but I don't think we're there.

vote: Dylan L-1

Last time I lynched Dylan over Andrew, it didn't go well. I think this'll be better.

PPE 3

[Dylan32]

VT - hence my earlier musings on whether or not it would be better to lynch me for more info since Andrew felt like a default type of wagon. If I was a PR no way I wonder that out loud.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

[Dylan32]

Just got back and caught up. I'll be here until deadline.

You want to lynch yourself?

If it would stop a no-lynch, yes, but I don't think we're there.

vote: Dylan L-1

Last time I lynched Dylan over Andrew, it didn't go well. I think this'll be better.

PPE 3

It won't

[Dylan32]

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

scummy hammer

[2.71828.....]

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

scummy hammer

Only if Andrew is scum

[Dylan32]

why will you "try to be around" if you are hammering, thus removing the need to be around?

ppe 1

[Galzria]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

[AndrewisFTTW]

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

scummy hammer

How so?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

The was hammer I guess.

It was PPE iDPTG’s vote

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

It's optimal play. I did it once and town went on to a fabulous victory

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

Pretty sure mislynch is better than no-lynch.

[Skumpy]

Don't pressure me!

Don't choose wrong. This entire lynch hinges on your vote!

Ha!

For the record, I was reading #489 during that hammer. Will post more if there's time (please Schadd!!!)

[Dylan32]

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

scummy hammer

the wording of trying to be around while hammering, as if possibly acting like he didn't realize it was the hammer. Maybe it isn't, the more I think about it, but that was my gut reaction
How so?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

It's optimal play. I did it once and town went on to a fabulous victory

That was the game e took over for me, lol

[Galzria]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

It's optimal play. I did it once and town went on to a fabulous victory

I disagree. Would you lynch aan IC over no-lynch?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

scummy hammer

the wording of trying to be around while hammering, as if possibly acting like he didn't realize it was the hammer. Maybe it isn't, the more I think about it, but that was my gut reaction
How so?

Sorry, didn’t realize i was hammer. Typed in a hurry

[Galzria]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

Pretty sure mislynch is better than no-lynch.

An unknown one, yes. Not a known one.

[Skumpy]

It's weird how neither really pushed the other as a better case than themselves, which is what I would've done, even if I thought the other was town. Dylan did a little in #489, but that's it. I think I'd vote for Dylan just because Andrew is squirmy, like I'd expect, while Dylan was particularly cool as a cucumber. I think. I would have voted eventually though

[AndrewisFTTW]

Thank you for letting me live until N1. Mafia peeps, let's make it until D2 at least. We can do this!

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

Pretty sure mislynch is better than no-lynch.

An unknown one, yes. Not a known one.

What?

[Dylan32]

Last second reads:

Galz - town.
Raptor - scummier side of null, but not too far. Pends Andrews alignment more than anything I guess.
IDPTG - felt like town, but could be an Andrew partner if either flips scum.
faust - you know how I feel.
LL - one of the top 2 scum reads I have now.
e - somewhat towny I think, but could be wrong. I have read him correctly as town before, so I think I'm right here, but idk for sure.

ppe 6

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG- Why would you lynch yourself over no lynch?

Pretty sure mislynch is better than no-lynch.

An unknown one, yes. Not a known one.

What?

Ohhh, I get it

[AndrewisFTTW]

Skumpy I've been pretty null on Dylan the whole time and I'm not going to lie and try to make up some argument out of thin air to get him lynched when I don't have anything on him. That might not be good play but that's just I felt about it

[schadd]

thread looooocked

D1 Final Vote count

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1): Skumpy

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like 0 seconds

mod notes

• phone

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/60iwmyhV8pQ?t=1m21s

many have i loved, and many times been bitten
many times i've gazed along the open road

many times i've lied, and many times i've listened
many times i've wondered how much there is to knooooow

dylan32 has been lynched! he was a vanilla townie.

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/Pu94mWlgzMY?t=1m44s

close the door, put out the light; you know they won't be home tonight
the snow falls hard, and don't you know; the winds of thor are blowin cold
they're wearin steel that's bright and true, they carry news that must get through
they choose the path that no one goes

night 1 starts now and ends saturday, november 11th at 00:00 forum time.

[schadd]

wow is it that time already

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/Zyhu2ysqKGk?t=4m4s

squeeze me baby, til the juice runs down my leg
do, squeeze, squeeeze me baby, til the juice runs down my leg
the way you squeeze my lemon, i,
i'm gonna fall right outta bed, bed, bed, be-eee-yeaah

Galzria has been killed in the night! he was a jailkeeper + rolecop.

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/qztKD75J2BM?t=15s

dancin days are here again, summer evenings grow
i got my flower, i got my power, i've got a woman who knows

i said it's alright, you know it's alright, i guess it's all in my heart
you'll be my only, my one and only, is that the way it should start?

Day 2 Starts!

Vote count 2.0

not voting (11): 2.71828..., Skumpy, LaLight, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13, Awaclus, faust, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 starts now and ends saturday, november 18th at 00:00 forum time. thread uncroaked.

mod notes

• did you know that if you mix diet coffee and mentos you will die every time?

[LaLight]

Well, that’s quite bad

[LaLight]

vote: Xx

[schadd]

does anybody know their vocal ranges and if so please spill the beans

i'm g2/b4 (it's kind of hard to tell when it starts being falsetto i guess, especially when i don't want to be loud in living space)

g5 with falsetto which is only sometimes but also really satisfying during those times

[Swowl]

Well what do we learn from Galz being JK:

1) Who was Galz likely to target for starters? Because that person did not carry the kill (unless skum has RB and skum decided to RB and kill Galz, which I find unlikely).
        - He was pushing LL hard so I wanna say its likely he went there. Doesn't absolve LL but def puts him in a more towny light than he was before. Also, he was pretty clear that he suspected XXR as his number 2 pick so probably drops him down the list a small amount.

2) JK/RC Role was worth 3 skum points. So among us we have the following options left:
     4 - Skum has "nada" and Town has either Neighborizor or Tracker
     5 - Skum has Role Cop and Town has either Vig or Doctor, or both Neighborizor and Tracker
     6 - Skum has Role Blocker and Town has Motion Detector or a combo of Vig/Doc and Neighborizor/Tracker
     7 - Skum has RC + RB and Town has Motion Detector and either Neighborizor or Tracker, or both Vig and Doc
     8 - Skum has Everything and Town has Motion Detector plus either Vig or Doctor, or Motion Detector and both Neighborizor and Tracker

3)
I am trying to find a way to use this to our advantage and all I am coming back with is... this is a shitty situation.
The idea of mass claiming kind of sucks because with Galz flipping as a "3" it significantly increased the liklihood of Skum having Day Chat.
The idea of having one role claim sucks as well IMO. I don't think any remaining role's info would outweigh the outting of themselves.
I was trying to come up with a scenario in which we could claim "skum point value" in order to try to isolate was Skum PR's could be out there. However, everything I think of is too easily manipulated.
The "if I was the neighborizor I would target.." idea seems like it would be an OK gameplan. Would like it if anyone has a downside to it speak up please.

4) Pretty much what I was left with was a Galz re-read.... which was surprisingly un-eventful. More surprisingly, he had like the #3 in post content and it was still the case. He saw LL as skummy, he saw Faust as town, and he mentioned one time (#50) that he read Skumpy as town. Other than that he kind of stayed out of the way - which I suppose makes sense given the power he had.

5) This comes from inexperience - but like.. if there is a Vig they would not of shot N1 right? Especially at Galz? Not anything worth considering there.


Blah. Whatever. More tomorrow. Sleep now.

[Swowl]

does anybody know their vocal ranges and if so please spill the beans

i'm g2/b4 (it's kind of hard to tell when it starts being falsetto i guess, especially when i don't want to be loud in living space)

g5 with falsetto which is only sometimes but also really satisfying during those times

G2 Baritone!

[Skumpy]

Well, that’s quite bad

Really? I thought it was a splendid outcome myself.

So there's a lot of talk to be had. I haven't had a chance yet to go back carefully through day 1, and I haven't really processed Galzria's murder. All I have done is snipe simulating privileges to come up with probabilities of

4: 16%
5: 20%
6: 24%
7: 20%
8: 20%

...which seem really wrong, so somebody might want to check me on that.

Ten questions which might be of interest!
1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

If you don't know the answer to any of these, then maybe an 11th? Like 'How did Skumpy manage to come up with 10 questions ranging from useless to maybe potentially useful, and why was he not voting on the final wagons?'


Ten questions is not a coincidence by the way, I just watched MOTOE so it's still fresh in my mind. We will see if my little grey cells are feeling up to the task at hand. I'll be more free and less delirious/insatiated to make said conclusions later.

PPE something by DatSwan which I probably won't read or respond to.

[LaLight]

SO, scum tried to both frame and unframe me?

[LaLight]

Ah, they didn’t know Galz’ role so yeah, i feel framed

[faust]

1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

If you don't know the answer to any of these, then maybe an 11th? Like 'How did Skumpy manage to come up with 10 questions ranging from useless to maybe potentially useful, and why was he not voting on the final wagons?'

1. Because it's Galzria.
2. Someone. We have no real way of knowing. Probably someone he scumread, I'd have to go check, I only remember he townread me.
3. Probably. Coincidence.
4. Unlikely. Maybe.
5. I think there is something off with your grammar. Probably not much, at least yet.
6. You have a pretty good reason for why I'm not dead yet.
7. Galzria is the more interesting case here.
8. Most likely yes, I don't see how scum!Raptor benefits from a derphammer here.
9. Probably a good idea.
10. I actually don't think there's much of a mystery there.

[faust]

5) This comes from inexperience - but like.. if there is a Vig they would not of shot N1 right? Especially at Galz? Not anything worth considering there.

This is not a useful discussion to be had.

[gkrieg13]

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

[gkrieg13]

5) This comes from inexperience - but like.. if there is a Vig they would not of shot N1 right? Especially at Galz? Not anything worth considering there.

This is not a useful discussion to be had.

But it kind of is. If a vig shot galz, that means a kill was possibly blocked.

On  another note, we probably want to all claim who we would neighborize before the day is over. Or is it N3?

[gkrieg13]

It is N2, so I’ll go first.  I would neighborize Faust.

[faust]

I don't see why we would claim neighborizing right now. If I were the Neighborizer, I'd certainly want more time to consider.

[faust]

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

Well I have things to reconsider. I'm also moving on. I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive. And of course Dylan's reads are less important than Galzria's because Galzria was killed maybe for his reads, and Dylan wasn't. That is not controversial stuff.

[faust]

Right now townies are Andrew, Idplay, DatSwan. I don't think I want to lynch them today.

[2.71828.....]

Faust has a townie start to the day.

[2.71828.....]

Read D1.

Skumpy and faust are town

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

[faust]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

Where can I see you genuinely scumhunt?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

Where can I see you genuinely scumhunt?

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

As a result, I eventually (correctly) identified Galzria as someone I didn't want to lynch.

[Swowl]

5) This comes from inexperience - but like.. if there is a Vig they would not of shot N1 right? Especially at Galz? Not anything worth considering there.

This is not a useful discussion to be had.

yeah agreed. I was just thinking out loud. Couldn't sleep.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

vote: Xx

Why?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

All I have done is snipe simulating privileges to come up with probabilities of

4: 16%
5: 20%
6: 24%
7: 20%
8: 20%

...which seem really wrong, so somebody might want to check me on that.

Ten questions which might be of interest!
1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

I got different numbers:

4: 10%
5: 15%
6: 30%
7: 20%
8: 25%

1. He either had good reads now or would have good reads later.
2. No idea.
3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.
4. See 3.
5. Probably not much.
6. He was wrong.
7. They both had scumreads on LaLight.
8. Not sure.
9. Yes and much closer to the deadline.
10. ...it's a secret?

PPE: 1

vote: Xx

Why?

Why not?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, the probability of a given role being in the game has changed but I don't know if we talk about that. I was willing to when they were equal because, well, they were equal.

[SpaceAnemone]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

Where can I see you genuinely scumhunt?

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

As a result, I eventually (correctly) identified Galzria as someone I didn't want to lynch.

I'm not sure that's exactly the kind of community-spirited scum-hunting that most people think of when describing particular behaviour as scum-hunting.

I kind of feel like you're being more of a parody of yourself here than you often are. But you're an easy-to-push mislynch target, too, so I won't jump on the wagon yet.

[SpaceAnemone]

I intend to have my own fun with the probabilities when I have spare time, which will be Monday night my time. We'll see whether I agree with any of the numbers already posted. I don't think extensive debate about probabilities will be super-helpful, but I at least want to check that nobody's trying to mislead everyone with bad numbers.

I'm going to be semi-VLA tomorrow, because my super-secret new partner and I are spending a day in London doing tourist things. @gkrieg, you and kkrieg would be utterly bewildered at how few things we're planning on cramming into our day.

[SpaceAnemone]

does anybody know their vocal ranges and if so please spill the beans

i'm g2/b4 (it's kind of hard to tell when it starts being falsetto i guess, especially when i don't want to be loud in living space)

g5 with falsetto which is only sometimes but also really satisfying during those times

I'm maybe a 4th above you on a regular day for normal voice, though I hit a solid A2b when I was kind of gravely with a cold a few months back -- it's in the tenor part for Lauridsen's Sure On This Shining Night, with a footnote that the low notes can be omitted for tenors not able to get that low! Normally I'm comfortable at a D3 but iffy at a B2. I'm happiest below C5, but over the past year or so I've found I can pull out consistent F5s when my a cappella band requires.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I intend to have my own fun with the probabilities when I have spare time, which will be Monday night my time. We'll see whether I agree with any of the numbers already posted. I don't think extensive debate about probabilities will be super-helpful, but I at least want to check that nobody's trying to mislead everyone with bad numbers.

You can brute force it in, like, 15 minutes. We're not dealing with a whole lot of possibilities anymore.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry couldn't post today and probably wont have time tomorrow.

[gkrieg13]

Parents are in town so I won’t have time until Monday.

[Swowl]

Well, that’s quite bad

Really? I thought it was a splendid outcome myself.

So there's a lot of talk to be had. I haven't had a chance yet to go back carefully through day 1, and I haven't really processed Galzria's murder. All I have done is snipe simulating privileges to come up with probabilities of

4: 16%
5: 20%
6: 24%
7: 20%
8: 20%

...which seem really wrong, so somebody might want to check me on that.

Ten questions which might be of interest!
1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

If you don't know the answer to any of these, then maybe an 11th? Like 'How did Skumpy manage to come up with 10 questions ranging from useless to maybe potentially useful, and why was he not voting on the final wagons?'


Ten questions is not a coincidence by the way, I just watched MOTOE so it's still fresh in my mind. We will see if my little grey cells are feeling up to the task at hand. I'll be more free and less delirious/insatiated to make said conclusions later.

PPE something by DatSwan which I probably won't read or respond to.

1. Why did scum kill Galzria? - He wasn't attracting much attention, or his reads could of been on point.
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep? - I would guess XXR or LL based on context
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew? - They thought they could make an Andrew case today
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left? - Either that, or they were on 3rd parties. Either way, I think looking at last minute switches is a good idea.
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons? - Faust none because he is Faust. Space IDK. LL seemed to be looked at a bit and then dropped off. I would normally say bus, but Galz was kind of the primary pusher.
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan? - Nothing. He was wrong. Shit happens.
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight? - Same as above-ish. They could of been onto something, or not. They had no more info than the rest of us.
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan? - no idea. conceding to better judgment on that one.
10. What is Space's secret? - IDK, but I hope they reveal it in Anagram Mafia in a super convoluted way

[Swowl]

All I have done is snipe simulating privileges to come up with probabilities of

4: 16%
5: 20%
6: 24%
7: 20%
8: 20%

...which seem really wrong, so somebody might want to check me on that.

Ten questions which might be of interest!
1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

I got different numbers:

4: 10%
5: 15%
6: 30%
7: 20%
8: 25%

1. He either had good reads now or would have good reads later.
2. No idea.
3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.
4. See 3.
5. Probably not much.
6. He was wrong.
7. They both had scumreads on LaLight.
8. Not sure.
9. Yes and much closer to the deadline.
10. ...it's a secret?

PPE: 1

vote: Xx

Why?

Why not?

OK, but really... why?

[Swowl]

Right now townies are Andrew, Idplay, DatSwan. I don't think I want to lynch them today.

I agree with 2 out of 3 of these.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

All I have done is snipe simulating privileges to come up with probabilities of

4: 16%
5: 20%
6: 24%
7: 20%
8: 20%

...which seem really wrong, so somebody might want to check me on that.

Ten questions which might be of interest!
1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

I got different numbers:

4: 10%
5: 15%
6: 30%
7: 20%
8: 25%

1. He either had good reads now or would have good reads later.
2. No idea.
3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.
4. See 3.
5. Probably not much.
6. He was wrong.
7. They both had scumreads on LaLight.
8. Not sure.
9. Yes and much closer to the deadline.
10. ...it's a secret?

PPE: 1

vote: Xx

Why?

Why not?

OK, but really... why?

I know my reasons, not LaLight's reasons.

[Swowl]

All I have done is snipe simulating privileges to come up with probabilities of

4: 16%
5: 20%
6: 24%
7: 20%
8: 20%

...which seem really wrong, so somebody might want to check me on that.

Ten questions which might be of interest!
1. Why did scum kill Galzria?
2. Who did Galzria jailkeep?
3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew?
4. Is Andrew scum, and scum buddies got him off the lynch? If so, were they bussing and left?
5. With what significance can we attribute to the faust, LaLight, and Space miniwagons?
6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan?
7. What do we make of both Galzria and Dylan accusing LaLight?
8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering?
9. Do and when we proceed with the neighborizing plan?
10. What is Space's secret?

I got different numbers:

4: 10%
5: 15%
6: 30%
7: 20%
8: 25%

1. He either had good reads now or would have good reads later.
2. No idea.
3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.
4. See 3.
5. Probably not much.
6. He was wrong.
7. They both had scumreads on LaLight.
8. Not sure.
9. Yes and much closer to the deadline.
10. ...it's a secret?

PPE: 1

vote: Xx

Why?

Why not?

OK, but really... why?

I know my reasons, not LaLight's reasons.

Your reasons are valid too!
Also yea, mis quote on my part sorry.

[faust]

I can do a Vote: Awaclus

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Your reasons are valid too!
Also yea, mis quote on my part sorry.

Same as D1, plus the hammer.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

The problem with awaclus is how hard it is to argue against him. Doesn't do anything too crazy, er, out of meta. Hard to lynch. But I think his response here is more indicative of being scum

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

The problem with awaclus is how hard it is to argue against him. Doesn't do anything too crazy, er, out of meta. Hard to lynch. But I think his response here is more indicative of being scum

What? I feel like his mislynches go through pretty quickly because of his playstyle.

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

The problem with awaclus is how hard it is to argue against him. Doesn't do anything too crazy, er, out of meta. Hard to lynch. But I think his response here is more indicative of being scum

What? I feel like his mislynches go through pretty quickly because of his playstyle.

Yeah, and I am not usually on those wagons. I tend to usually just avoid awaclus wagons because I am not confident in them. But I like this one

[Awaclus]

But I think his response here is more indicative of being scum

Which of the following statements do you think are not true, or not indicative of me being town?

 - I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day
 - you can see me genuinely scumhunt
 - I was off wagon for the town lynch

[Swowl]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

I mean OK you have a point in regards to the voting, that could be said about anyone that wasn't Andrew or Dylan.
Raptor came up a lot in a lot of people's skum hunting theories, he def wasn't like "off the radar". IDK, just seems like an unnecessary move for Skum!XXR to make on purpose.

[schadd]

Vote count 2.1

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): LaLight
Awaclus (2): 2.71828..., faust

not voting (8): Skumpy, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends saturday, november 18th at 00:00 forum time.

mod notes

• they say you can tell a lot about a person based on whether they choose idioms or pick up lines first on duolingo

mod quotes:
the vocal range thing

[IDontPlayThisGame]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

I mean OK you have a point in regards to the voting, that could be said about anyone that wasn't Andrew or Dylan.
Raptor came up a lot in a lot of people's skum hunting theories, he def wasn't like "off the radar". IDK, just seems like an unnecessary move for Skum!XXR to make on purpose.

Does he have a history of not declaring L-1s?

[Swowl]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

I mean OK you have a point in regards to the voting, that could be said about anyone that wasn't Andrew or Dylan.
Raptor came up a lot in a lot of people's skum hunting theories, he def wasn't like "off the radar". IDK, just seems like an unnecessary move for Skum!XXR to make on purpose.

Does he have a history of not declaring L-1s?

He has a history of this current game we are playing now being his second ever game of Mafia
He may/may not of know that was the standard.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

I mean OK you have a point in regards to the voting, that could be said about anyone that wasn't Andrew or Dylan.
Raptor came up a lot in a lot of people's skum hunting theories, he def wasn't like "off the radar". IDK, just seems like an unnecessary move for Skum!XXR to make on purpose.

Does he have a history of not declaring L-1s?

He has a history of this current game we are playing now being his second ever game of Mafia
He may/may not of know that was the standard.

I knew that much, I just didn't know if he'd missed them in the other game.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Eh. I'll go back to vote: raptor. Liked it D1, nothing's changed in my read of him.

[Swowl]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

Ah, well that is a good point.
Flip a coin? Heads you look, tails I look? lol

I mean OK you have a point in regards to the voting, that could be said about anyone that wasn't Andrew or Dylan.
Raptor came up a lot in a lot of people's skum hunting theories, he def wasn't like "off the radar". IDK, just seems like an unnecessary move for Skum!XXR to make on purpose.

Does he have a history of not declaring L-1s?

He has a history of this current game we are playing now being his second ever game of Mafia
He may/may not of know that was the standard.

I knew that much, I just didn't know if he'd missed them in the other game.

[Swowl]

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

I disagree. His wagon never picked up traction.

Ah, well that is a good point.
Flip a coin? Heads you look, tails I look? lol

I mean OK you have a point in regards to the voting, that could be said about anyone that wasn't Andrew or Dylan.
Raptor came up a lot in a lot of people's skum hunting theories, he def wasn't like "off the radar". IDK, just seems like an unnecessary move for Skum!XXR to make on purpose.

Does he have a history of not declaring L-1s?

He has a history of this current game we are playing now being his second ever game of Mafia
He may/may not of know that was the standard.

I knew that much, I just didn't know if he'd missed them in the other game.

quote fail sorry

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What?

[Skumpy]

Thanks for not prodding me.

Went to back to read through Day 1 on an empty stomach, so naturally, I found basically nothing. I'd like to try again, but I just don't have the time these days to pick everything apart, and I really do want to. But I just can't pay close enough attention right now. Only thing that particularly caught my eye (again) was:

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both). RR made a similar slip in my first game (!) that helped tell me Swan was town after RR flipped - this I could easily see being a bluff. Not voting yet.

Nobody really came off as townie to me, I need to either reread or wait for more info. Probably the latter. I don't feel that all 3 scum have slipped under the radar, I think at least 1 has had a wagon of some significance. New Awaclus wagon concerns me somewhat? Him defending himself makes me a bit more suspicious, but I don't think I can nor will I ever be able to get a good read on his madness.

Last 2 things:
I was not actually expecting anyone to answer the 10 questions, they were either obvious or we don't have enough information yet to say anything past the obvious answers.

My probabilities are almost certainly wrong, just trust IDPTG on this one (even though they're pretty close and it's not like the extra 10% is going to affect anything).

[LaLight]

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

[faust]

Vote: LaLight

[faust]

Happy birthday!

[LaLight]

Happy birthday!

Aw thanks! Is it the only reason you voted for me?

[faust]

Happy birthday!

Aw thanks! Is it the only reason you voted for me?

No, mostly your last post.

[Swowl]

What?

NVM.. I was trying to be funny and failed.
Read briefly through RR in 105. Didn't see any L1 scheming.

[Swowl]

What?

NVM.. I was trying to be funny and failed.
Read briefly through RR in 105. Didn't see any L1 scheming.

Wow I am just horrible lately.

Should read "I read briefly through XXR in 105. Didn't see any L1 scheming".

[Skumpy]

So: Wagons on Andrew, LaLight and me are bad, wagons on Space and Dylan are good.

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

Vote: LaLight

We're getting topsy-turvy now? (Oh yeah, since I've never said it yet: thank you all non-native English speakers for making my life so much easier).

Happy birthday!

Ditto! A quarter of the way to 100 (that's when you die).

[faust]

So: Wagons on Andrew, LaLight and me are bad, wagons on Space and Dylan are good.

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

Vote: LaLight

We're getting topsy-turvy now? (Oh yeah, since I've never said it yet: thank you all non-native English speakers for making my life so much easier).

Happy birthday!

Ditto! A quarter of the way to 100 (that's when you die).

I am not beholden to opinions I posted early D1. You wouldn't want me to still suspect Dylan.

[Swowl]

thread looooocked

D1 Final Vote count

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1): Skumpy

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like 0 seconds

mod notes

• phone

Question of realness - How many skum, or what range of skum, do we believe to be on the D1 Dylan Wagon?

Once we remove Galz, we are left with:
Faust
LL
Andrew
E!
IDPTG
XXR

IMO I think it is likely 1-2 skum in this set up.
I think that whether Andrew is Skum or Town they would of voted here. Skum for proc, Town for self preservation.
I also, am quite sold that Faust is Town at this point. Would take into considerations arguments on that, but it is my read right now.

I am trying to deduce something from the Andrew wagon in regards to skum hunting but I can't come up with anything. There was so much attention draw I don't see why they wouldn't of just came up with some reason and switched if need be. I guess that brings Andrew back into the pool a little, but I am disregarding that for now.

Leaves my lynch pool currently at LL, E!, IDPTG, XXR (in that order).

Sorry Happy birthday!
Vote: LL

[Skumpy]

thread looooocked

D1 Final Vote count

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1): Skumpy

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like 0 seconds

mod notes

• phone

Question of realness - How many skum, or what range of skum, do we believe to be on the D1 Dylan Wagon?

Once we remove Galz, we are left with:
Faust
LL
Andrew
E!
IDPTG
XXR

IMO I think it is likely 1-2 skum in this set up.
I think that whether Andrew is Skum or Town they would of voted here. Skum for proc, Town for self preservation.
I also, am quite sold that Faust is Town at this point. Would take into considerations arguments on that, but it is my read right now.

I am trying to deduce something from the Andrew wagon in regards to skum hunting but I can't come up with anything. There was so much attention draw I don't see why they wouldn't of just came up with some reason and switched if need be. I guess that brings Andrew back into the pool a little, but I am disregarding that for now.

Leaves my lynch pool currently at LL, E!, IDPTG, XXR (in that order).

Sorry Happy birthday!
Vote: LL

A whole number between -1 and 4, exclusive.

Andrew = town:
Then scum doesn't care who gets lynched. Unlikely to find 3 scum in {Space, Awaclus, Gkrieg, you}.

Andrew = scum:
Then scum almost certainly weren't both on. It's a good look for Space, especially when they didn't switch. Not a good look for Raptor and IDPTG. But if Andrew's scum, then nobody flipped (besides me, but I just so happen to be town, and when I said 'I have a decision' it was for Andrew even though I then went instantly back to null based on something-I-don't-remember). So sure, really doubtful that there were 2 bussers among the 4.

So...yeah? Probably at least 1 scum who voted for Dylan?

But...

 a) You've got a lot more talking to do to convince me faust is town (I get that it's not smart for a scummer's top 2 scum reads to flip town, but this isn't pat-on-the-back-worthy material here folks!)

b) You said nothing to validate leaving Andrew out of it.

And c) If you're town, you just listed a subset of 4 out of 10 unknowns. Statistically, there is most likely a scum there. The last 4 people to post besides myself were you, faust, Lalight, and IDPTG. Guys, I found a scum! (The scary part is I don't know if I found 3 or 0)

[Swowl]

thread looooocked

D1 Final Vote count

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1): Skumpy

kind of... except the whole bit where mine is based on the logic of a Town player getting lynched and who was there to contribute to that vs yours which is based on birthday posts and nonsense...

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like 0 seconds

mod notes

• phone

Question of realness - How many skum, or what range of skum, do we believe to be on the D1 Dylan Wagon?

Once we remove Galz, we are left with:
Faust
LL
Andrew
E!
IDPTG
XXR

IMO I think it is likely 1-2 skum in this set up.
I think that whether Andrew is Skum or Town they would of voted here. Skum for proc, Town for self preservation.
I also, am quite sold that Faust is Town at this point. Would take into considerations arguments on that, but it is my read right now.

I am trying to deduce something from the Andrew wagon in regards to skum hunting but I can't come up with anything. There was so much attention draw I don't see why they wouldn't of just came up with some reason and switched if need be. I guess that brings Andrew back into the pool a little, but I am disregarding that for now.

Leaves my lynch pool currently at LL, E!, IDPTG, XXR (in that order).

Sorry Happy birthday!
Vote: LL

A whole number between -1 and 4, exclusive.

Andrew = town:
Then scum doesn't care who gets lynched. Unlikely to find 3 scum in {Space, Awaclus, Gkrieg, you}.

Andrew = scum:
Then scum almost certainly weren't both on. It's a good look for Space, especially when they didn't switch. Not a good look for Raptor and IDPTG. But if Andrew's scum, then nobody flipped (besides me, but I just so happen to be town, and when I said 'I have a decision' it was for Andrew even though I then went instantly back to null based on something-I-don't-remember). So sure, really doubtful that there were 2 bussers among the 4.

So...yeah? Probably at least 1 scum who voted for Dylan?

But...

 a) You've got a lot more talking to do to convince me faust is town (I get that it's not smart for a scummer's top 2 scum reads to flip town, but this isn't pat-on-the-back-worthy material here folks!)

b) You said nothing to validate leaving Andrew out of it.

And c) If you're town, you just listed a subset of 4 out of 10 unknowns. Statistically, there is most likely a scum there. The last 4 people to post besides myself were you, faust, Lalight, and IDPTG. Guys, I found a scum! (The scary part is I don't know if I found 3 or 0)

[Swowl]

thread looooocked

D1 Final Vote count

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1): Skumpy

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like 0 seconds

mod notes

• phone

Question of realness - How many skum, or what range of skum, do we believe to be on the D1 Dylan Wagon?

Once we remove Galz, we are left with:
Faust
LL
Andrew
E!
IDPTG
XXR

IMO I think it is likely 1-2 skum in this set up.
I think that whether Andrew is Skum or Town they would of voted here. Skum for proc, Town for self preservation.
I also, am quite sold that Faust is Town at this point. Would take into considerations arguments on that, but it is my read right now.

I am trying to deduce something from the Andrew wagon in regards to skum hunting but I can't come up with anything. There was so much attention draw I don't see why they wouldn't of just came up with some reason and switched if need be. I guess that brings Andrew back into the pool a little, but I am disregarding that for now.

Leaves my lynch pool currently at LL, E!, IDPTG, XXR (in that order).

Sorry Happy birthday!
Vote: LL

A whole number between -1 and 4, exclusive.

Andrew = town:
Then scum doesn't care who gets lynched. Unlikely to find 3 scum in {Space, Awaclus, Gkrieg, you}.

Andrew = scum:
Then scum almost certainly weren't both on. It's a good look for Space, especially when they didn't switch. Not a good look for Raptor and IDPTG. But if Andrew's scum, then nobody flipped (besides me, but I just so happen to be town, and when I said 'I have a decision' it was for Andrew even though I then went instantly back to null based on something-I-don't-remember). So sure, really doubtful that there were 2 bussers among the 4.

So...yeah? Probably at least 1 scum who voted for Dylan?

But...

 a) You've got a lot more talking to do to convince me faust is town (I get that it's not smart for a scummer's top 2 scum reads to flip town, but this isn't pat-on-the-back-worthy material here folks!)

b) You said nothing to validate leaving Andrew out of it.

And c) If you're town, you just listed a subset of 4 out of 10 unknowns. Statistically, there is most likely a scum there. The last 4 people to post besides myself were you, faust, Lalight, and IDPTG. Guys, I found a scum! (The scary part is I don't know if I found 3 or 0)

***kind of... except the whole bit where mine is based on the logic of a Town player getting lynched and who was there to contribute to that vs yours which is based on birthday posts and nonsense...

[Swowl]

Furthermore - we have to work with what we got. We have D1 to now (so mainly D1). The most useful piece of info from D1 is the lynch followed by subsequent wagons. I am choosing to focus on the lynch.
Are you saying we should not be considering that there was a skum on the lynch wagon?
I mean I guess it could of been all town, shit happens, but yesterdays lynch feels like the best jumping off point currently.

If you don't want to attempt to skum hunt based on the lynch from yesterday, what is it you propose we do?

[2.71828.....]

But I think his response here is more indicative of being scum

Which of the following statements do you think are not true, or not indicative of me being town?

 - I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day
 - you can see me genuinely scumhunt
 - I was off wagon for the town lynch

Individually they are nothing. But what they do is
1) ambiguously identify you as town
2) show how helpful you are so we can't lynch you
3) let you hide behind a mislynch to protect yourself

So scum

[gkrieg13]

Sorry, will actually get to this later, and find all the scums.

[Awaclus]

Individually they are nothing. But what they do is
1) ambiguously identify you as town
2) show how helpful you are so we can't lynch you
3) let you hide behind a mislynch to protect yourself

So scum

Town, not scum. It's a case for me being town. Everything about it suggests that I'm town and not scum.

[Swowl]

Individually they are nothing. But what they do is
1) ambiguously identify you as town
2) show how helpful you are so we can't lynch you
3) let you hide behind a mislynch to protect yourself

So scum

Town, not scum. It's a case for me being town. Everything about it suggests that I'm town and not scum.

Would skum!you not use being off the mislynch wagon to come off as towny?  Not saying it’s the case, but to say “everything about the above argues that you are Town” is incorrect.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ok I got a day off today so I'll be reading over the last few pages.

[Awaclus]

Individually they are nothing. But what they do is
1) ambiguously identify you as town
2) show how helpful you are so we can't lynch you
3) let you hide behind a mislynch to protect yourself

So scum

Town, not scum. It's a case for me being town. Everything about it suggests that I'm town and not scum.

Would skum!you not use being off the mislynch wagon to come off as towny?  Not saying it’s the case, but to say “everything about the above argues that you are Town” is incorrect.

No, scum!me would be on the mislynch.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both).

Meh. You don't have to believe it for it to be true. You're the people who're new to me here, which is the major thing you have in common. You're largely unaware of people's personal metas, and we're largely unaware of yours with the exception of the twin/triplet claim stuff. I know most of you have played one other game around here, and I was on the scumteam with Swan in the last game I played in, but I still don't feel like I have a good measure of him.

Anyway, my reads summary back at #340 lumped all three of you together in the less-towny end of my feelings about people. I've said I'm happy enough with a wagon on any of you, so I don't really think that my pointing out that I'm prone to getting confused between you is helping supposed scum buddies. I mainly said it to give town a hand understanding me, and also for help understanding the "twin claim" thing, since the only place I'd come across it before was Swan in the game where we were both scum, and other there, there seemed to be more pressing stuff to discuss. I think without having had it explained, I'd have assumed it would mean that the involved people have similar thought processes or metas, rather than just that they know each other IRL.

[SpaceAnemone]

I have a third set of possible numbers for the likelihoods of each of the costs 4-8 (which disagrees with both sets presented so far).

@IDP, your set seems most suspicious because of all those clean multiple-of-five likelihoods you got out of the scenario. Did you read schadd's algorithm as described at #212, and faust's nice breakdown at #222?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Individually they are nothing. But what they do is
1) ambiguously identify you as town
2) show how helpful you are so we can't lynch you
3) let you hide behind a mislynch to protect yourself

So scum

Town, not scum. It's a case for me being town. Everything about it suggests that I'm town and not scum.

Would skum!you not use being off the mislynch wagon to come off as towny?  Not saying it’s the case, but to say “everything about the above argues that you are Town” is incorrect.

No, scum!me would be on the mislynch.

So according to your logic everyone on the Dylan wagon is scum and everyone off it is town. GG everyone! Well done!

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I have a third set of possible numbers for the likelihoods of each of the costs 4-8 (which disagrees with both sets presented so far).

@IDP, your set seems most suspicious because of all those clean multiple-of-five likelihoods you got out of the scenario. Did you read schadd's algorithm as described at #212, and faust's nice breakdown at #222?

I got 20 possible set-ups left, hence multiples of 5.

[schadd]

Vote count 2.2

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Awaclus (1): 2.71828...
SpaceAnemone (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): faust, DatSwan

not voting (6) : Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends saturday, november 18th at 00:00 forum time.

mod notes

• waluigi

mod quotes:
waluigi

[schadd]

,apfgug

[Awaclus]

So according to your logic everyone on the Dylan wagon is scum and everyone off it is town. GG everyone! Well done!

No, according to my logic, one person off it (myself) is town. Do you think we shouldn't place any value on wagon analysis when scumhunting?

[SpaceAnemone]

I have a third set of possible numbers for the likelihoods of each of the costs 4-8 (which disagrees with both sets presented so far).

@IDP, your set seems most suspicious because of all those clean multiple-of-five likelihoods you got out of the scenario. Did you read schadd's algorithm as described at #212, and faust's nice breakdown at #222?

I got 20 possible set-ups left, hence multiples of 5.

You are correct that there are 20 setups left, but they're definitely not equiprobable. As faust pointed out at #222, certain states from the 2-option and 4-option pools were disallowed, and the effective probabilities of having 2, 3, or 4 roles get modified accordingly. It's only within each of those pools that all possible combinations remain equiprobable.

You need to do two rounds of re-normalization across the probabilities:

First, generate the full 40 possibilities that schadd might have generated using his proposal method. Probabilities in the 2-shot and 4-shot pools will be (1/3)*(1/15), and in the 3-shot pool it's (1/3)*(1/20)). Then multiply the ones whose costs sum to something outside 4-8 by zero, and redistribute all the other probabilities proportionally so that they still all sum to one.

Second, identify all the states that don't include Galz's flipped role. Set those states' probabilities to zero, and re-normalize again to get probabilities for the remaining 20 states.

[AndrewisFTTW]

So according to your logic everyone on the Dylan wagon is scum and everyone off it is town. GG everyone! Well done!

No, according to my logic, one person off it (myself) is town. Do you think we shouldn't place any value on wagon analysis when scumhunting?

Nowhere have I ever come remotely close to even hinting at that. You on the other hand concluded that because you were off of Dylan's wagon, are town. So case closed right? But not only that, that logic only applies to YOU. I just.... how... I... man this is exasperating.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Actual content coming soon, when I get home.

[Awaclus]

Nowhere have I ever come remotely close to even hinting at that.

You just did that in your previous post.

You on the other hand concluded that because you were off of Dylan's wagon, are town. So case closed right? But not only that, that logic only applies to YOU. I just.... how... I... man this is exasperating.

And then you did it again.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Nowhere have I ever come remotely close to even hinting at that.

You just did that in your previous post.

You on the other hand concluded that because you were off of Dylan's wagon, are town. So case closed right? But not only that, that logic only applies to YOU. I just.... how... I... man this is exasperating.

And then you did it again.

Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I'm dismissing wagon analysis entirely.

[Awaclus]

Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I'm dismissing wagon analysis entirely.

In that case I would assume you agree that me being off wagon is a reason to think I'm town.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Just because I think you're wrong doesn't mean I'm dismissing wagon analysis entirely.

In that case I would assume you agree that me being off wagon is a reason to think I'm town.

Alright I'm tagging out. Somebody else take over, I can't handle it anymore.

Well what do we learn from Galz being JK:

1) Who was Galz likely to target for starters? Because that person did not carry the kill (unless skum has RB and skum decided to RB and kill Galz, which I find unlikely).
        - He was pushing LL hard so I wanna say its likely he went there. Doesn't absolve LL but def puts him in a more towny light than he was before. Also, he was pretty clear that he suspected XXR as his number 2 pick so probably drops him down the list a small amount.

2) JK/RC Role was worth 3 skum points. So among us we have the following options left:
     4 - Skum has "nada" and Town has either Neighborizor or Tracker
     5 - Skum has Role Cop and Town has either Vig or Doctor, or both Neighborizor and Tracker
     6 - Skum has Role Blocker and Town has Motion Detector or a combo of Vig/Doc and Neighborizor/Tracker
     7 - Skum has RC + RB and Town has Motion Detector and either Neighborizor or Tracker, or both Vig and Doc
     8 - Skum has Everything and Town has Motion Detector plus either Vig or Doctor, or Motion Detector and both Neighborizor and Tracker

3)
I am trying to find a way to use this to our advantage and all I am coming back with is... this is a shitty situation.
The idea of mass claiming kind of sucks because with Galz flipping as a "3" it significantly increased the liklihood of Skum having Day Chat.
The idea of having one role claim sucks as well IMO. I don't think any remaining role's info would outweigh the outting of themselves.
I was trying to come up with a scenario in which we could claim "skum point value" in order to try to isolate was Skum PR's could be out there. However, everything I think of is too easily manipulated.
The "if I was the neighborizor I would target.." idea seems like it would be an OK gameplan. Would like it if anyone has a downside to it speak up please.

4) Pretty much what I was left with was a Galz re-read.... which was surprisingly un-eventful. More surprisingly, he had like the #3 in post content and it was still the case. He saw LL as skummy, he saw Faust as town, and he mentioned one time (#50) that he read Skumpy as town. Other than that he kind of stayed out of the way - which I suppose makes sense given the power he had.

5) This comes from inexperience - but like.. if there is a Vig they would not of shot N1 right? Especially at Galz? Not anything worth considering there.


Blah. Whatever. More tomorrow. Sleep now.

Alright. ^I think this guy is town.

[AndrewisFTTW]

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

I don't think this is really fair to faust. I wouldn't put much stock into Dylan's reads either and I don't think faust really needs to come out and apologize to everyone. All we can do is "move on".

[AndrewisFTTW]

3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.

What does exactly?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

Where can I see you genuinely scumhunt?

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

As a result, I eventually (correctly) identified Galzria as someone I didn't want to lynch.

I'm not sure that's exactly the kind of community-spirited scum-hunting that most people think of when describing particular behaviour as scum-hunting.

I kind of feel like you're being more of a parody of yourself here than you often are. But you're an easy-to-push mislynch target, too, so I won't jump on the wagon yet.

I don't think scum!Space talks to their scum!Awaclus partner in this way, just for future reference.

[Awaclus]

3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.

What does exactly?

What doesn't?

[AndrewisFTTW]

3. Is Andrew town, and scum didn't care who got lynched? If so, why Dylan and not Andrew? - They thought they could make an Andrew case today

Yes!

6. What do we make of faust accusing both Galzria and Dylan? - Nothing. He was wrong. Shit happens.

Yes!

8. Did Raptor genuinely not realize he was hammering? - I don't think he tries to pull that off given his image at the time.

Yes!

[AndrewisFTTW]

3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.

What does exactly?

What doesn't?

TAGGING OUT. TAGGING OUT.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both). RR made a similar slip in my first game (!) that helped tell me Swan was town after RR flipped - this I could easily see being a bluff. Not voting yet.

I agree with Skumpy on this, not buying it. This seems really off for Space.

Vote: Space

[Awaclus]

3. Actually makes me think Andrew's scum.

What does exactly?

What doesn't?

TAGGING OUT. TAGGING OUT.

Vote: Andrew

[AndrewisFTTW]

Alright, Dylan votes.

Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

Note: Not including the first two votes (faust and me) as they were on Pg. 4 and were RVS.

LL votes saying he thinks Dylan is scum without really backing it up.

well, I can see why people are voting for me, but what is really strange is that some of them stated scumread on another person and then voted for me, weird. I think Dylan is scum here and I want to vote: Dylan as I don't remember if I am still doing that. I would even say DatSwan is one of the partners.

Datswan vote. No original opinion on the wagon and includes the caveat of "def could change on that".

Can’t bwleive I’m saying it.... but I agree with Faust.
This actually makes me like the Andrew wagon a lot more then i did before.

Why?

Makes me think it could be skum buddy protection lowering  wagon count prior to the inevitable last minute piles that will soon ensue.

So, want to lynch Idplay? I mean this is stronger evidence on him than it is on Andrew.

Fair enough. I could go for that but doubt we gain much support.
vote: dylan seems like a better plan for the time being. Def could change on that but for now seems like a fine choice.

Galz vote.

I am not the biggest fan of this lynch, but I'll vote: Dylan for now. We're creeping up on deadline and are massively spread out. My LL vote is useless right now, Raptor/Awaclus don't seem to be happening, and I don't like the Faust wagon.

For those on Andrew: Why should I vote there over Dylan?

Me vote.

Really? Nobody into a DatSwan lynch?

I'll be around for a few more hours but not for deadline.

Andrew, what do you think of a raptor lynch? Would you move to Dylan if needed? Why should I vote DatSwan?

Raptor I don't feel one way or another about. Yes I'll move to Dylan now that faust isn't coming back and nobody else seems into DatSwan.

Vote: Dylan

e vote.

I won't participate in a last minute change.

Ok, fine. Spoil the party.

Vote: Dylan

IDPTG vote.

Just got back and caught up. I'll be here until deadline.

You want to lynch yourself?

If it would stop a no-lynch, yes, but I don't think we're there.

vote: Dylan L-1

Last time I lynched Dylan over Andrew, it didn't go well. I think this'll be better.

PPE 3

Raptor derp.

vote: Dylan I’ll try to be around but I’m workinh now.

Dylan just seemed more scummy compared to Andrew.

[AndrewisFTTW]

This is kinda tough. e wanted an alternate wagon. I think if he was scum he would've just gone along with the Dylan lynch without much fuss. The whole "I think this'll be better" comment about from IDPTG seems like a hopeful town comment to me but I could be wrong. The raptor and LL votes are the scummiest to me. raptor not announcing intent to hammer isn't scummy to me, but just the nonchalant "Dylan just seemed more scummy" seems like he was thinking "I better post something to explain why I'm voting" instead of simply voting to get a lynch, which I think is a thought process more common for scum. LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

vote: LL

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I have a third set of possible numbers for the likelihoods of each of the costs 4-8 (which disagrees with both sets presented so far).

@IDP, your set seems most suspicious because of all those clean multiple-of-five likelihoods you got out of the scenario. Did you read schadd's algorithm as described at #212, and faust's nice breakdown at #222?

I got 20 possible set-ups left, hence multiples of 5.

You are correct that there are 20 setups left, but they're definitely not equiprobable. As faust pointed out at #222, certain states from the 2-option and 4-option pools were disallowed, and the effective probabilities of having 2, 3, or 4 roles get modified accordingly. It's only within each of those pools that all possible combinations remain equiprobable.

You need to do two rounds of re-normalization across the probabilities:

First, generate the full 40 possibilities that schadd might have generated using his proposal method. Probabilities in the 2-shot and 4-shot pools will be (1/3)*(1/15), and in the 3-shot pool it's (1/3)*(1/20)). Then multiply the ones whose costs sum to something outside 4-8 by zero, and redistribute all the other probabilities proportionally so that they still all sum to one.

Second, identify all the states that don't include Galz's flipped role. Set those states' probabilities to zero, and re-normalize again to get probabilities for the remaining 20 states.

Fair enough. You can post yours or I can adjust mine.

raptor not announcing intent to hammer isn't scummy to me, but just the nonchalant "Dylan just seemed more scummy" seems like he was thinking "I better post something to explain why I'm voting" instead of simply voting to get a lynch, which I think is a thought process more common for scum.

Do you make anything of raptor's use of past tense about Dylan in relation to the derphammer?

PPE: OMGUS

[Skumpy]

This was intended to be short. It's not.



First, I think I know where I went wrong with my calculations - I assumed the chance of flipping a 2,3, or 4 were all the same; pretty sure that is not the case, 4 is more likely than 2 at this point (to prove this, if Dylan was a PR and there were 2 dead PR's now, it would be far more likely that there were more PRs left than they were all dead).

@DatSwan What I was said was unfair and overly snappy, reading back. I blame external stimuli. But: I like elimination, as you well know, and 1/4 isn't very useful. True, there could be more scum there, but you also left faust and Andrew off your minilist (although more on that in a second). The other problem is: if Andrew is town, then by your logic, there's probably a scum in the 5 that voted him. And two of them are Dylan and yourself. So if you trust Andrew is town (and heck, maybe even if you don't), there's a pool of 3 that probably has a scum. So why not do that?

@Space It''s not about knowing metas, it's about how my writing style shares no commonalities whatsoever with Raptor's (unless that is what a meta is). Yes, you don't know us, but nobody mixed up in our first game like you did (granted, I was probably posting more and he was posting less, but still!) To lump me in with the twins seems like a very convenient way of making the classic scum move "here are 4 potential scum. 1 of them actually is scum so that when they're caught, I don't look so bad!"


Since I have been very tentative to give towncred this game, I'll dip two toes into the water here.

1. DatSwan: I will reveal some of my hesitancy with him, but not all - I felt coming into this game that the longer the game went on, the more likely he would be scum until he proves otherwise. In regards to his D2 opening post, it seemed scummy to theorize about roleblocking a jail keeper that was killed, but the rest of that post reminds me of a lot of his 105 lategame stuff - lots of theorizing, most of which is probably not very helpful or necessary to know , but still putting ideas out there. Based off my grand total of 1 game with him, my gut tells me I can read him pretty well, and right now, my guts telling me my guts say he's town. Not going all in yet, but I'll go like halfway.

2. Andrew: Whaaaat? Didn't Skumpy vote him? Yes! I did! But his recent semantics and scum hunting overall have been a lot more familiar. This don't seem like an act to get him off the chopping block today. He managed to pick up 5 votes yesterday, and nobody (besides yours truly) flipped from him. Doesn't mean there wasn't bussing, but it is a point in favor of two town wagons. And if Awaclus was arguing with me, "TAGGING OUT" is exactly what I'm doing as town - scum might be more anxious to get the heat off them.


Everybody else:
LaLight: Have I mentioned big wagons scare me? This one does. He has not been townying it up this game, but again, I don't seem to recall anybody defending him (especially the dead dudes), that's a troubling fact. No way I can L-2 this with 5 days left.

Space: More comfortable L-3ing this. I like discussing probabilities and improving my putrid mathing skills, but it really is an incredibly empty 38 posts. Lalight and Andrew on already? I could see a bus (I know I said Andrew was town earlier, but when someone agrees with an idea of mine, that always concerns me). I'm tempted to vote here to see what happens, but I won't (there was a vote here, but it has since been edited out).

Awaclus: Pass. Not that I'm against a lynch, it gets a wildcard out of the way.

IDPTG: Like, I just forget you're there. There's something about your profile-picless-posting that makes me think you're town, then I read the content and I think "Welp...who knows? He does!"

gkrieg: The longer you're gone, the more I look elsewhere at active players for scum. Which is why I'm starting to look back at you. Your read lists do strike me on the townier side, certainly enough to get you out of the top 3 pool.

faust: Soooo many townreads on you. And I kinda feel like there's a lot of your posting that suggests you are town, this isn't stuff you can say with such a townie accent if you're scum. But I thought you were a really bad scum player once, which was a theory that ended up getting busted hard. I'm not going to make the same mistake in the other direction....yet. And I still haven't moved from null for you. That's curious too.

Raptor: I liked Swan's defense when he said it. But now, I keep coming back to "This is the same as 105". I'm now remembering why you lasted so long, because nobody can be sure with you. And there's still my (probably incorrect) Raptor/Space theory still out there, awaiting a good counter.

2.7: How are you still under the radar?!?! I ended D1 intending to get back to voting for you ASAP....then I just didn't, and let others slip ahead of you. I believe not all scum has eluded notice, but I believe some definitely has. You could very well be a part of that latter category.


So leaning now towards....Raptor/Space/2.7? This post was stream-of-conscioused, please don't hold me to this if I'm wrong, but please give me a lot of credit if I'm at least 2/3 right.

Vote: XX
Still haven't had a chance to comb D1 and pay attention to all the interactions, I'm operating off of memory and so-far impressions of D2. I reserve the rights to reverse all reads (I found an anagram!!)

[faust]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both). RR made a similar slip in my first game (!) that helped tell me Swan was town after RR flipped - this I could easily see being a bluff. Not voting yet.

I agree with Skumpy on this, not buying it. This seems really off for Space.

Vote: Space

I don't understand why scum!Space would make something like this up. I mean Skumpy gives an explanation, but I am really not buying that. I think Space as any alignment wouldn't come up with this if it wasn't at least close to the truth.

[faust]

Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

Note: Not including the first two votes (faust and me) as they were on Pg. 4 and were RVS.

Speak for yourself. I don't do RVS.

[faust]

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

I mean, I did the same thing; why do you think it's strange for LaLight but not for me?

[LaLight]

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

Well, I pretty much thought for the whole D1 that Dylan was scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AndrewisFTTW]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both). RR made a similar slip in my first game (!) that helped tell me Swan was town after RR flipped - this I could easily see being a bluff. Not voting yet.

I agree with Skumpy on this, not buying it. This seems really off for Space.

Vote: Space

I don't understand why scum!Space would make something like this up. I mean Skumpy gives an explanation, but I am really not buying that. I think Space as any alignment wouldn't come up with this if it wasn't at least close to the truth.

Not suggesting they made it up exactly, just that it's surprising to me that Space would get those three mixed up. I just expect Space to be a little more familiar and knowledgeable of all three players.

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

I mean, I did the same thing; why do you think it's strange for LaLight but not for me?

It's strange for you too I guess but I would think LL would do a little more poking and prodding, trying to use votes to guage reactions. But maybe I'm misremembering how LL plays.

[AndrewisFTTW]

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

Well, I pretty much thought for the whole D1 that Dylan was scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

See above.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

Note: Not including the first two votes (faust and me) as they were on Pg. 4 and were RVS.

Speak for yourself. I don't do RVS.

Ok but you didn't give an explanation before voting so I just assumed it was RVS.

This was the last post from Dylan before you voted him (again this is pg. 4). Did it have something something to do with this post?

Roles/Modifiers I need to look up:

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

Weak - does that fail on scum? Kill you if you target scum?
Ascetic - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.
Neapolitan - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.

role PMs are relevant!

Weak - Dies if target of your action is scum.
Ascetic - Immune to night actions other than night kills.
Neapolitan - A cop that returns vanilla if target is VT, not-vanilla otherwise.

All answers according to the normal version described on mafiascum.

PPE 1: of course he listed the pms...

[faust]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both). RR made a similar slip in my first game (!) that helped tell me Swan was town after RR flipped - this I could easily see being a bluff. Not voting yet.

I agree with Skumpy on this, not buying it. This seems really off for Space.

Vote: Space

I don't understand why scum!Space would make something like this up. I mean Skumpy gives an explanation, but I am really not buying that. I think Space as any alignment wouldn't come up with this if it wasn't at least close to the truth.

Not suggesting they made it up exactly, just that it's surprising to me that Space would get those three mixed up. I just expect Space to be a little more familiar and knowledgeable of all three players.

Okay, but if it's not made up, then why is it scummy?

[faust]

Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

Note: Not including the first two votes (faust and me) as they were on Pg. 4 and were RVS.

Speak for yourself. I don't do RVS.

Ok but you didn't give an explanation before voting so I just assumed it was RVS.

This was the last post from Dylan before you voted him (again this is pg. 4). Did it have something something to do with this post?

Roles/Modifiers I need to look up:

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3

Weak - does that fail on scum? Kill you if you target scum?
Ascetic - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.
Neapolitan - I have no idea in relation to a Mafia game.

role PMs are relevant!

Weak - Dies if target of your action is scum.
Ascetic - Immune to night actions other than night kills.
Neapolitan - A cop that returns vanilla if target is VT, not-vanilla otherwise.

All answers according to the normal version described on mafiascum.

PPE 1: of course he listed the pms...

Yes. All he did was offer some pointless theory talk, trying to be helpful without committing to anything.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both). RR made a similar slip in my first game (!) that helped tell me Swan was town after RR flipped - this I could easily see being a bluff. Not voting yet.

I agree with Skumpy on this, not buying it. This seems really off for Space.

Vote: Space

I don't understand why scum!Space would make something like this up. I mean Skumpy gives an explanation, but I am really not buying that. I think Space as any alignment wouldn't come up with this if it wasn't at least close to the truth.

Not suggesting they made it up exactly, just that it's surprising to me that Space would get those three mixed up. I just expect Space to be a little more familiar and knowledgeable of all three players.

Okay, but if it's not made up, then why is it scummy?

Because the town!Space I know is confident, posting a lot of content, seems to have solid reads. This is the opposite of that.

[SpaceAnemone]

Because the town!Space I know is confident, posting a lot of content, seems to have solid reads. This is the opposite of that.

Meh, I wouldn't describe me as a reads person at all. I'm good with likelihoods and handling information. Though it's entirely possible that my reads have been good and you're just scum.

[Swowl]

quote blocks would take up 2 pages. so I will summarize to 2 lines:

@Skumpy - All good. life sucks some times. I probably came off short as well. Apologies.
Vote: Awaclus


I have work for a bit but I will do some posting this evening.

[gkrieg13]

Ok getting to this now

[Awaclus]

@Skumpy - All good. life sucks some times. I probably came off short as well. Apologies.
Vote: Awaclus

I have provided a valid defense. There are others who have blatantly refused to even try even after multiple prompts. Voting for me is absolutely ridiculous at this point.

[Swowl]

@Skumpy - All good. life sucks some times. I probably came off short as well. Apologies.
Vote: Awaclus

I have provided a valid defense. There are others who have blatantly refused to even try even after multiple prompts. Voting for me is absolutely ridiculous at this point.

Noted.

[gkrieg13]

I like this from DatSwan.  Shows he is thinking about things, and trying to gather information from them.

Skumpy has a lot of stuff in his posts, but I really don't have any idea of what he'll look like when he is scum...

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

Well I have things to reconsider. I'm also moving on. I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive. And of course Dylan's reads are less important than Galzria's because Galzria was killed maybe for his reads, and Dylan wasn't. That is not controversial stuff.

I guess my point with that question is that you lead us to one mislynch, and the other person that you were heavily pushing for was also town, yet no one seems to give you any kind of scum points for that, and it looks like you are just chugging along like nothing really happened.

I intend to have my own fun with the probabilities when I have spare time, which will be Monday night my time. We'll see whether I agree with any of the numbers already posted. I don't think extensive debate about probabilities will be super-helpful, but I at least want to check that nobody's trying to mislead everyone with bad numbers.

I'm going to be semi-VLA tomorrow, because my super-secret new partner and I are spending a day in London doing tourist things. @gkrieg, you and kkrieg would be utterly bewildered at how few things we're planning on cramming into our day.

I'm not sure if I already responded to this, but 

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

I have to agree with faust that this post is scummy.

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both).

Meh. You don't have to believe it for it to be true. You're the people who're new to me here, which is the major thing you have in common. You're largely unaware of people's personal metas, and we're largely unaware of yours with the exception of the twin/triplet claim stuff. I know most of you have played one other game around here, and I was on the scumteam with Swan in the last game I played in, but I still don't feel like I have a good measure of him.

Anyway, my reads summary back at #340 lumped all three of you together in the less-towny end of my feelings about people. I've said I'm happy enough with a wagon on any of you, so I don't really think that my pointing out that I'm prone to getting confused between you is helping supposed scum buddies. I mainly said it to give town a hand understanding me, and also for help understanding the "twin claim" thing, since the only place I'd come across it before was Swan in the game where we were both scum, and other there, there seemed to be more pressing stuff to discuss. I think without having had it explained, I'd have assumed it would mean that the involved people have similar thought processes or metas, rather than just that they know each other IRL.

I'm not sure if town!Space is so acutely aware of posts they made in the past.  I'll have to think about this one, although I wish I could see their face when I accused them.

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

I don't think this is really fair to faust. I wouldn't put much stock into Dylan's reads either and I don't think faust really needs to come out and apologize to everyone. All we can do is "move on".

That wasn't my point.  My point was that most of the time when people lead a mislynch, while pushing another incorrect read, they at least acknowledge it and say they messed up, but that they're moving on.  Faust just starts right out of the gate, and it doesn't look like he has reevaluated at all.  I get that Dylan's reads aren't the most important ones, and that galzria's reads might be "more important", but that doesn't mean that Dylan's reads are completely useless. 

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

Well, I pretty much thought for the whole D1 that Dylan was scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This doesn't come from town!LaLight. 

vote: LaLight

I think people should look more at faust later on.  I'm sad that no one is saying anything about the fact that faust was wrong on the two wagons he pushed D1.  I get that everyone has a right to be wrong, but I think it is townier to acknowledge that you were wrong.  I realize that people definitely disagree with me about this though.  I think the third scum could definitely be Andrew, for reasons that I'll explain eventually when I have time.  Mostly tone, and the content of his posts seems fake to me for some reason.

[gkrieg13]

I also don't think I've played a game so far where Datswan was this talkative.  I like it.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, only six posts since my phone-post-from-bed this morning? There I was thinking I might need half an hour to catch up..

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm not sure if town!Space is so acutely aware of posts they made in the past.  I'll have to think about this one, although I wish I could see their face when I accused them.

I don't know whether I am usually, but I remembered trying to put together the portmanteau of their names when I didn't feel like I had a big impression of them separately, so I knew it was somewhere, and ctrl-f is a thing :-)

I do feel bad for not having spent longer getting to know everyone as individual players with individual playstyles yet :-(

[2.71828.....]

I think space is town

[Swowl]

I also don't think I've played a game so far where Datswan was this talkative.  I like it.

Sarcasm? Real question Gameplan going into this game was to try and switch it up to see if it was more or less helpful

[Swowl]

So trying to find something to speak opinion too but pretty much everything covered at this point.

1) inactive people should share opinions/reads at a minimum (when they have a moment of course).

2) in regards to the "Neighborizor Claim". Since we are not doing anything - is there an order that we should try to establish (does that even matter?). If so, how do we go about that. I get that we want to wait until later in the day to actually do the claim itself, but we should consider the IRL constraints of the weekend. Since the day ends on Sunday, do we maybe want to entertain getting that started prior to Friday/Saturday as I believe would be the accepted norm?

[Skumpy]

Skumpy has a lot of stuff in his posts, but I really don't have any idea of what he'll look like when he is scum...

Oh, well, when I'm Skum, my profile pic becomes Overgrown Estate. But seriously, you might not know now (and neither do I really), all I know is you'll know it when you see it. Trust me. My townplay consists of me coming forward and shouting a bunch of random nonsense off no importance whatsoever that is sometimes responded to, and sometimes totally ignored (am I seriously boring all of you that much? ...probably, I know). There is absolutely no chance I could pull a charade like that as skum. It would be so painfully awkward, I'd probably just end up self-voting after like 2 posts because I'd have no confidence whatsoever. I was given credit my first game for doing such a good job at convincing everyone I'm town when I didn't even have to go out of my way, and it led me to believe that when I'm town, everyone will know after just a few posts...

But not this game somehow. Which I don't understand, and is frankly starting to worry me just a tad lot even though my only vote-for this game was an RVS (I'm definitely not paranoid or anything).

Moving on... 


Neighborizer stuff: We're moving so slowly at this point that I'm just happy to do anything - my pick is faust. Shouldn't be hard for you to figure out why.


The LaLight situation: If faust was better at flipping coins, I might have a different opinion. As it is...I don't know how likely a replacement is at this point. The fact that I and everybody here is scumreading him concerns me, but at the same time, it might solve a lot of problems both ingame and outgame. Not voting yet because there's time enough to see what'll happen, but I suspect this will ultimately be the kill and it's not something I'm going to fight tooth and nail against. Besides, I think I like D3 most, and 6 vs 3 in the worst case is the point where I think a lot of the POE and deduction can really take shape (I'm saying that now, I probably will end up making myself heard today when it's actually lunchtime (I'm OK with that autocorrect)).

This post is how deathwishes are properly done btw.

[faust]

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

Well I have things to reconsider. I'm also moving on. I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive. And of course Dylan's reads are less important than Galzria's because Galzria was killed maybe for his reads, and Dylan wasn't. That is not controversial stuff.

I guess my point with that question is that you lead us to one mislynch, and the other person that you were heavily pushing for was also town, yet no one seems to give you any kind of scum points for that, and it looks like you are just chugging along like nothing really happened.

Should I run around telling people that they should scumread me? That doesn't seem productive. I mean I am pleasantly surprised that there's not more suspicion on me, but why should I push it?

I think people should look more at faust later on.  I'm sad that no one is saying anything about the fact that faust was wrong on the two wagons he pushed D1.  I get that everyone has a right to be wrong, but I think it is townier to acknowledge that you were wrong.  I realize that people definitely disagree with me about this though.  I think the third scum could definitely be Andrew, for reasons that I'll explain eventually when I have time.  Mostly tone, and the content of his posts seems fake to me for some reason.

Why is it townier to acknowledge that?

And all in all I wasn't terribly wrong on Galzria. I think it's safe to say that he played a more reserved game due to being a strong PR. A saw a difference and just interpreted it incorrectly.

How exactly did you incorporate Dylan's reads into your play today?

[faust]

I'd do Andrew as Neighborizer.

[faust]

Also I am fully in favor of resolving the LaLight situation via lynch.

[gkrieg13]

I also don't think I've played a game so far where Datswan was this talkative.  I like it.

Sarcasm? Real question Gameplan going into this game was to try and switch it up to see if it was more or less helpful

Not sarcasm.

[schadd]

Vote count 2.3

Xxraptorslayer96 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Skumpy
Awaclus (2): 2.71828..., DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (2): Teproc, AndrewisFTTW
Teproc (3): faust, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus

not voting (1) : SpaceAnemone

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends sunday, november 19th at 00:00 forum time.

mod notes

• Teproc replaces LaLight, effective immediately. thanks my dude!

mod quotes:
,apfgug

[Teproc]

Hi all, will take time to read later tonight.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I, too, will get to this tonight. For now though, vote: Space

[Swowl]

hm. I don't know how to approach a lead lynch candidate being replaced. I suppose it doesn't matter right?

[2.71828.....]

 not feeling the space wagon

[SpaceAnemone]

I was going to try to do a targeted re-read of everyone tonight, but I'm only through the first four in the list so far, and I'm feeling too tired to focus on more already, so I'll put what I've got here. Of these four, Skumpy feels the most scummy, but I was going through in sign-up order, so I haven't reached Andrew yet, and I'm still feeling the wagon there from D1.

e (46 posts): Lots of empty early stuff, but really active at the deadline. Wants to push IDPTG a lot. Joins the Dylan mislynch quite close to deadline when people are already starting not to be available for the night. Tentative townread. Though his most recent post says he thinks I'm probably town, so maybe I subconsciously got buddied, though it's not like I actually remembered that at the start of my re-read!

Skumpy (44 posts): I still find the "If I were skum" mindset a bit worrying. Also, what's with all that "don't want to vote Swan for reasons I'm not talking about" stuff? Wow, he writes long posts.. I think I've mostly only skimmed things of his before. Very few townies in his reads post at #245, and he misses out IDP and me completely for some reason. Very big on over-explaining his votes: could be a scum thing or could just be a verbosity thing. Made a bit of a show of being willing to switch to Andrew at the end of D1, but actually voting and staying on Dylan. Why is his top scum read at #484 a secret? The unvote at #490 was extra-super-unhelpful because it took a potential vote out of the game at a time when I and probably others on my side of the Atlantic were struggling to be present and about to have to call it a night. Comes into D2 with fishy-looking distributions over the cost numbers for the combinations of possible town roles. Admist at #672 that he hasn't given a lot of towncred... could be something possible scum-buddies mentioned in the night, though.

LL/Teproc (44 posts): Hard to get a read on LL. He seems genuine enough, but equally I could convince myself there's a little hint of the LL I saw when he and I were scum together, so I'm not townreading him as hard as I feel like I otherwise could. Let's see what Teproc says.

DatSwan (63 posts): Lots of early setup speculation founded on something incorrect. Then a bunch of middle posts that seem focused on Faust and Raptor kind of oddly. He gets more helpful towards the deadline, with town-to-scum lists that don't miss people off, and do offer plenty at the town end of the spectrum. He has a confusing number of posts where he seems to be misquoting or something.

PPE 1: Cool, now both of e's two most recent posts support me :-)

[schadd]

deadline extended by 24hr again.

[AndrewisFTTW]

not feeling the space wagon

Sentences. Give us more sentences please. With good words in them.

[Swowl]

deadline extended by 24hr again.

why?

replacement

[AndrewisFTTW]

e (46 posts): Lots of empty early stuff, but really active at the deadline. Wants to push IDPTG a lot. Joins the Dylan mislynch quite close to deadline when people are already starting not to be available for the night. Tentative townread. Though his most recent post says he thinks I'm probably town, so maybe I subconsciously got buddied, though it's not like I actually remembered that at the start of my re-read!

What about this gives you your townread on e?

[Skumpy]

Skumpy (44 posts): I still find the "If I were skum" mindset a bit worrying. Also, what's with all that "don't want to vote Swan for reasons I'm not talking about" stuff? Wow, he writes long posts.. I think I've mostly only skimmed things of his before. Very few townies in his reads post at #245, and he misses out IDP and me completely for some reason. Very big on over-explaining his votes: could be a scum thing or could just be a verbosity thing. Made a bit of a show of being willing to switch to Andrew at the end of D1, but actually voting and staying on Dylan. Why is his top scum read at #484 a secret? The unvote at #490 was extra-super-unhelpful because it took a potential vote out of the game at a time when I and probably others on my side of the Atlantic were struggling to be present and about to have to call it a night. Comes into D2 with fishy-looking distributions over the cost numbers for the combinations of possible town roles. Admist at #672 that he hasn't given a lot of towncred... could be something possible scum-buddies mentioned in the night, though.

Defense time! My favorite! I shall assume you're town for the purposes of this post:


"If I were skum": Fakeclaiming is tough this game. The end. I don't know why I'm the only person to realize this.

"Don't want to vote Swan": For reasons very similar to what Dylan did with Awaclus. And I did it first! I think I'm OK with sharing this stuff now, but I want to do one last reread of Swan before I reveal (even though I already did reveal most of it later on)

"Long posts...only skimmed things": Mwahaha, my plan exactly (insert evil emoji, which does not exist here). I know this isn't an accusation, but I'll answer anyways: I prefer to put everything in one big block rather than split em all up like faust. Just how I operate, I'm aware it's displeasing.

"Missed you and IDP": How dare you insult the memory of Dylan32, he's gone but not forgotten! I have a record of 1/2 for being correct on D1 townreads, which is worse than random guessing. I hate D1's, I don't think there's anything of worthwhile significance for the first lynch, I stand by it being a total shot in the dark that I still end up getting overconfident in.  On later days, sure. On D1, I can say "I don't want to lynch you now", but I'm very hesitant to take a stance and townread people, especially when I don't know their playstyles well enough. As for missing 3 people, I left an invisible middle category.

"Over explaining": "Is it scum or verbosity," you say?   ..... do I need to answer that? 

"Big show with Andrew": It's called uncertainty, or in Skumpy language, "I have no goddamn idea because I suck at reads". I did not 'stay' on Dylan, I unvoted because I got cold feet, which turned out to be correct. The 'I've made my decision' referred to Andrew...then I got scared again. If my being honest and blunt is a big show, enjoy the circus!

"Why top scum read a secret": Because it wasn't Andrew or Dylan and there wasn't anything to be accomplished. If I didn't mention it by now (and again, I think I did), it was 2.7. My first scumread in 105 was correct, but I never really acted on it until D3 even though my read never really wavered, it was just that other people felt more suspicious. The same thing happened D1, and I didn't want it to carry over into D2 (even though it already has. Surprise!)

"The Unvote being unhelpful": It was 2 hours before the lynch. I didn't say "alright, I'm unvoting, peace, see ya guys on the flip-flop" I stayed and was active. If it was needed, my vote was going right back to Andrew to make a lynch happen. There was time enough for me to think things through again and there were enough people to make a lynch happen, I definitely did not throw a wrench into the ironworks. Apologies to you East Atlantacians...but the deadline is always going to bother somebody. faust and Lalight were already gone anyways.

Fishy-Looking distributions: That has nothing to do with me being skum, that has to do with "I suck at math". And even if that was all a diabolical move on my part, what good does that accomplish? It's not like anybody cares about the exact numbers. I just took a chance to practice my basic coding, and apparently, also show off my putrid reasoning skills.

"Hasn't given towncred": This is actually where you are right, I got advice to act really uncertain because nobody would suspect the crying wolf. Props to you for figuring that part out.


Space, you're trying to scumread me when you should be trying to Skumread me. Not the same thing at all. Nobody has voted me this game outside of RVS when 7 of them had seen me play before. Am I stupid enough to trust they're all town just because they don't vote me? Yes, but I'm still not doing it. I have a history, you're invited to take a look before you continue down a blunder-populated pathway.

I should do a reread now. Eh, I'll Crastinate this time. I will at some point soon though.

[Teproc]

Commenting as I go through the game. I was vaguely following D1, Dylan got mislynched right ? I guess I'll see soon enough. I apologize in advance for the wall of text.

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

Super early, but still, gonna say Andrew and faust are somewhat unlikely to be scum together.

Early Skumpy is very reminiscent of M105!Skumpy.

#96: e being self-aware, hm.

#102: towny chairs, to the point.

Awaclus has an awful neighborizer plan which seems out-of-character.

#126: I know, right ? (not alignment-relevant, don't bother)

#127: IDPTG's "Skumpy covered the setup pretty well" seems scummy to me. I seem to remember IDPTG being more interested in setup talk than that.

#136: Galz arbitratily declaring faust is town. Townie. Also accurately calls out IDPTG for talking about rereads for a game that's barely started.

#140: Nevermind, e is town again.

#153: A bad IDPTG vote (on Andrew, who was doing fine). Well, I know who I'd have been wanting to lynch at that point.

faust is having some fun. I don't remember what that means, but I like it.

Dylan wagon forming because LALL. Ugh. People, you need to stop listening to faust on D1, lynching lurkers suck. I would never support such a thing. Never !

#169: Oh no, I unwittingly agreed with Awaclus, argh.

#175: A well-deserved vote for faust by Awaclus. What is happening ?

#176: IDPTG making sense, which I think is townie for him. I guess I'd be switching to... well, not faust I don't think, but someone else at this point. Maybe Swan.

#180: Galz doing some Awaclus-wrangling. Easy to fake (unhelpful town is lovely to deal with as scum, not that Awaclus was being particularly unhelpful here but you know), but I like it.

#189: Of course faust hates it (it being the above).

#193: Yeah, IDPTG is getting townie now (nothing super specific, just generally being constructive).

#194: Aaaaaand Galz getting into a theoretical argument with Awaclus AND voting for "me". Sigh. You were doing so well !

#198: More alignment-irrelevant truth from Andrew.

Andrew is funny. I missed playing with you, it's been a while !

Ah, Space is in this game. Yeah, I guess that's where my vote would've been at that point. I do think I have a math-hating bias against them, but oh well.

#216: Wait wait, Space is actually giving reads, real ones. Nevermind then. That's atually a super-townie post given that scum!Space was entirely incapable of doing even half of that in M108.

#236: e oppoing up again to say not much, which reminds me he should have been more of a presence. Town points from earlier are officially rescinded.

#245: Skumpy going from a non-wagon to another, which at this exact point of the game is townie I think. Also... yeah, Dylan did get mislynched (and I see Galz was killed too, I guess I can stop commenting on him) and was the leading wagon at this point, yet Raptor has nothing to say about him. Given that Dylan was town, I find that super-townie: scum definitely wants to take some sort of stance regarding a leading mislynch wagon.

#251: Don't like that Swan vote, and not just because it's on "me". Feels forced, with some scummy hedge too.

#256: Dead town reads! Unvoting scummy!Swan to vote for "me". Tssk.

#265: "X is town." posts are my favorite posts. Still not convinced Swan is though. I was also just thinking I had no idea how I could read XXR, so I'm very curious what made Swan think that, especially given the triplets-claim . Swan ?

#284: A wild gkrieg appears ! He's doing a reread right away, doesn't he know only losers do that ?

It's actually a pretty good post. I think scum!gkrieg is the constructive type, though ? Don't remember if I've encountered scum!gkrieg past his newbie days.

Awaclus is funny too, sometimes.

#300: A wild e re-appears ! Self-aware again. Weird. Maybe scummy, especially because there's no follow-up to "I sure haven't been doing much this game !". Paraphrasing.

#313: IDPTG u Andrew(2), v Raptor (1)

This is a pretty interesting point wagon-wise btw. Vote count there is

Space (3): gkrieg, Swan, ANdrew
Andrew (3): IDPTG, Space, Skumpy
LL (2): Galz, Dylan
Dylan (2): faust, LL
faust (2): Raptor, Awaclus
IDPTG (1): e

Seems pretty safe to bet at least one scum has 2 votes on them. Otherwise they're sitting pretty I suppose, but I'd expect the people doing the most work at this point to be more likely to be scum.

faust is there but that's just faust, mostly I'm looking at IDPTG's #309 vote and especially DatSwan's #331 vote. They both are getting off the leading wagons (Andrew and Space) and Swan's Dylan vote makes him the lead lynch candidate.

Andrew's 334 also fit, but like IDPTG he goes to a new wagon, so Swan still looks scummiest here.

#349: More of e saying "oh noes I'm not doing anything that's bad" and still not doing anything. I do not care for it, at all.

#354: Kinda smarmy from Swan, scummy I think.

Ah, Swan's #356 kinda ruins my argument (going back to Andrew, resulting in

faust (3) Raptor, Awaclus, Dylan
Andrew (3): Space, Skumpy, Swan
Dylan (2): faust, LL
LL (1): Galz
IDPTG (1): e
Raptor (1): IDPTG
Space (1): gkrieg
Swan (1): Andrew

Oh well, he's still scummy. I do think this vote count also makes faust and Andrew scummy based on how the day ended up (but I could be proved wrong by how things go from there again I guess). That is, I'm assuming there to be some effort to swing towards Dylan next if one of them is scum.

IDPTG goes for a Raptor lurker thing rather than Dylan, which looks townie given Dylan's alignment.

And then he ruins it with a scumslip argument. Boo !

8 hours to deadline at this point, things are veeery undecided. Scum has to be worried, even if they're not in the main three "wagons" (faust, Andrew, Dylan), this a very indecisive D1 and scum does not like that.

And the first swing vote I was waiting for on Dylan comes from... Galz (426). Of course. Hrmph.

Townpoints to Swan for defending Dylan here. Even if the main three wagons are on town, I think scum is still nervous and wants nothing more than let the Dylan momentum continue. I mean, both faust and Galz are now on him, that's a very good start, but at only three votes anything could still happen.

#441: Here's the scummy swing vote I was looking for, by Andrew. A bit of a fussy vote too, especially for ANdrew.

#449: With Awaclus on Andrew, it's now looking like a Dylan v Andrew thing. ANdrew gets to L-2 first thanks to gkrieg (#455), but then Skumpy switches, which is pretty decisive and does not look good for Skumpy. Unless Andrew is town, in which case whatever, scum is fine sitting back now, they're safe.

e still trying to lynch IDPTG at this point ? Ugh.

#490: Skumpy unvoting ! Definitely not Andrew's partner then, which might be useful to know later.

#530: e finally accepting that it's Andrew v Dylan, picks Dylan. Definitely doesn't feel partner-y to Andrew either, but fits the bill of scum being present to ensure a lynch goes through and trying to play truthtfully in the meantime. It's a very strange move for town!e to try for an IDPTG wagon for so long here.

Null on Raptor's hammer. It's not great because Dylan could have claimed, but I entirely buy that Raptor didn't realize it and it was very close to deadline. Don't think it's alignment-indicatve at all really.

Done for now. e is the scummiest player in the game by a fair margin so far.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Wow, I suck. Promise to get to this asap.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus has an awful neighborizer plan which seems out-of-character.

The only part about it that was out-of-character was that it was awful. Other than that, it was perfectly in-character.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Quick note- I'm going to be VLA November 17th-19th. I should have time to post a little those days and I'll try to make some time for the deadline.

[faust]

Space (3): gkrieg, Swan, ANdrew
Andrew (3): IDPTG, Space, Skumpy
LL (2): Galz, Dylan
Dylan (2): faust, LL
faust (2): Raptor, Awaclus
IDPTG (1): e

Seems pretty safe to bet at least one scum has 2 votes on them.

Is there any reason for this assumption other than basic probability?

Other than that, I read all of this post, I still think that is a good place to lynch.

[faust]

#96: e being self-aware, hm.

#140: Nevermind, e is town again.

#236: e oppoing up again to say not much, which reminds me he should have been more of a presence. Town points from earlier are officially rescinded.

#300: A wild e re-appears ! Self-aware again. Weird. Maybe scummy, especially because there's no follow-up to "I sure haven't been doing much this game !". Paraphrasing.

#349: More of e saying "oh noes I'm not doing anything that's bad" and still not doing anything. I do not care for it, at all.

e still trying to lynch IDPTG at this point ? Ugh.

#530: e finally accepting that it's Andrew v Dylan, picks Dylan. Definitely doesn't feel partner-y to Andrew either, but fits the bill of scum being present to ensure a lynch goes through and trying to play truthtfully in the meantime. It's a very strange move for town!e to try for an IDPTG wagon for so long here.

Done for now. e is the scummiest player in the game by a fair margin so far.

And there we have it. It seems 50% based on e not being active (but of course me proposing a lurker lynch was *gasp* awful), and 50% on him trying out a different wagon which doesn't work out and close to deadline he decides on one of the main wagon. Both of which are the exact behaviours he showed in M108, as town. Here is a vote 1.5 minutes prior to deadline from that game:

Vote: space

So I ask, how is this scummy?

[faust]

There was supposed to be a preface to this post that said something along the lines of "let's see why Teproc thinks e is scum".

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Unvote — Welcome Tep

Reads
Scum
Andrew- Did his team save him from being lynched D1?
2.71828- flying pretty far under the radar ( I know, ironic coming from me). Just feel like hes not trying this game, out of character for him?
Awaclus- I guess this is just more of a gut feeling. The back and forth's with Andrew seem kind setup. Team?

null
Teproc- just entered the game. Giving him the benefit of the doubt at first.
Gkrieg- I️ have not had very many interactions with this player
Skumpy- scummier side of null. Strange as always. Nothing in particular that makes me think he’s scum. I️ think it’s weird that he never voted
Space - I️ need to reread. Nothing off the top of my head that comes off as scummy


Town
Faust- Seems to be genuinely scum hunting
Swan- Honestly slightly hard to not be basis. I️ feel like he’s acting similar to 105
IDPTG- majority of his arguments make sense

Did I get everyone? Again apologies I've been busy as of late.

[Swowl]

Commenting as I go through the game. I was vaguely following D1, Dylan got mislynched right ? I guess I'll see soon enough. I apologize in advance for the wall of text.

Vote: Dylan

Vote: Dylan

#251: Don't like that Swan vote, and not just because it's on "me". Feels forced, with some scummy hedge too. - Vote was a little forced TBH. I meant what I said, I thought Space/LL interactions were cheesy skummy sounding so I picked the person I felt skummiest and voted there.

#256: Dead town reads! Unvoting scummy!Swan to vote for "me". Tssk. - I am still not sure how I was coming off as skummy at this point, but somewhat irrelevant now. Should be noted that Post #1 of the game was him voting for me so it had been some time for him to consider things.

#265: "X is town." posts are my favorite posts. Still not convinced Swan is though. I was also just thinking I had no idea how I could read XXR, so I'm very curious what made Swan think that, especially given the triplets-claim . Swan ? - I thought I made it fairly clear. As you played with us in 105 I assume you remember the... ahem... "XXR blunder" on D3 or D4, whichever it was. I do not believe that such a new player, especially one with such a low post count, would make so many errors in one post as skum. I feel like everything from the grammar to the terminology would be correct. He spelled "faust" incorrectly, he used "bus" when he meant "wagon"... and then there is the entire line on me; "seems quite for someone who normally has a lot to say" - first off he mis-spelled "quiet" as "quite", and then also, as much as I would love to believe my image is oh so talkative Swan... I do not feel like until this game I have really put in an effort to claim that. I feel like Skum!Anyone would not make such a claim with like no real substantiation to back it. If anything, the opposite.


#354: Kinda smarmy from Swan, scummy I think. - I will start to using **'s around what I thought was clear sarcasm.


Oh well, he's still scummy. I do think this vote count also makes faust and Andrew scummy based on how the day ended up (but I could be proved wrong by how things go from there again I guess). That is, I'm assuming there to be some effort to swing towards Dylan next if one of them is scum. - I mean... I was pretty clear I didn't want to vote Dylan...

8 hours to deadline at this point, things are veeery undecided. Scum has to be worried, even if they're not in the main three "wagons" (faust, Andrew, Dylan), this a very indecisive D1 and scum does not like that. - I have a lot to say about this. Will post separately.


Townpoints to Swan for defending Dylan here. Even if the main three wagons are on town, I think scum is still nervous and wants nothing more than let the Dylan momentum continue. I mean, both faust and Galz are now on him, that's a very good start, but at only three votes anything could still happen.

#441: Here's the scummy swing vote I was looking for, by Andrew. A bit of a fussy vote too, especially for ANdrew. - At first this was my only thought as well. Upon further thought, not ruling it out, but if Andrew is Town, the only person he knows to be town is himself. So if faust is off the table, which he kind of was at this point, and it is between him and someone else... I mean you vote for the person you are not 100% sure is town right?

#449: With Awaclus on Andrew, it's now looking like a Dylan v Andrew thing. ANdrew gets to L-2 first thanks to gkrieg (#455), but then Skumpy switches, which is pretty decisive and does not look good for Skumpy. Unless Andrew is town, in which case whatever, scum is fine sitting back now, they're safe. - paints both of them in a bad light imo.

e still trying to lynch IDPTG at this point ? Ugh. - given circumstances I found specifically this extremely strange. (skum relaxed at this point, knowing dylan not skum, so making waves on some third party trying to save town looks good etc etc.)


#490: Skumpy unvoting ! Definitely not Andrew's partner then, which might be useful to know later. - disagree. I think the room read pretty clear at this point that one of them was going to lynch.


#530: e finally accepting that it's Andrew v Dylan, picks Dylan. Definitely doesn't feel partner-y to Andrew either, but fits the bill of scum being present to ensure a lynch goes through and trying to play truthtfully in the meantime. It's a very strange move for town!e to try for an IDPTG wagon for so long here. - See above two points, but I agree this switch paints E! in a townier light.

Null on Raptor's hammer. It's not great because Dylan could have claimed, but I entirely buy that Raptor didn't realize it and it was very close to deadline. Don't think it's alignment-indicatve at all really. - extremely un-null on raptors hammer for the exact reason that Dylan could of claimed.

Opinions. FWIW. Skipped most the early stuff as we have already talked it to death. It was important of course for you to read through it, just don't want to have any of those same conversations again

[Swowl]

Unvote — Welcome Tep

Reads
Scum
Andrew- Did his team save him from being lynched D1?
2.71828- flying pretty far under the radar ( I know, ironic coming from me). Just feel like hes not trying this game, out of character for him?
Awaclus- I guess this is just more of a gut feeling. The back and forth's with Andrew seem kind setup. Team?

null
Teproc- just entered the game. Giving him the benefit of the doubt at first.
Gkrieg- I️ have not had very many interactions with this player
Skumpy- scummier side of null. Strange as always. Nothing in particular that makes me think he’s scum. I️ think it’s weird that he never voted
Space - I️ need to reread. Nothing off the top of my head that comes off as scummy


Town
Faust- Seems to be genuinely scum hunting
Swan- Honestly slightly hard to not be basis. I️ feel like he’s acting similar to 105
IDPTG- majority of his arguments make sense

Did I get everyone? Again apologies I've been busy as of late.

Andrew- Did his team save him from being lynched D1? ---- Can you explain what your theory is on this. Not saying it might not be relevant, just some details would be nice from you POV.

Teproc- just entered the game. Giving him the benefit of the doubt at first. --- Remember while he is a new player, he holds the same role that LL held prior to his take over. I have answered my own question from before.. you should absolutely keep the Teproc/LL line clear in head, but also weigh both sets of actions as they are.

Skumpy- scummier side of null. Strange as always. Nothing in particular that makes me think he’s scum. I️ think it’s weird that he never voted --- He did vote. He unvoted right at the end.

Faust- Seems to be genuinely scum hunting --- He always seems to be genuinely skum hunting. I mean I think he is town at this point, but just saying.

[Swowl]

#96: e being self-aware, hm.

#140: Nevermind, e is town again.

#236: e oppoing up again to say not much, which reminds me he should have been more of a presence. Town points from earlier are officially rescinded.

#300: A wild e re-appears ! Self-aware again. Weird. Maybe scummy, especially because there's no follow-up to "I sure haven't been doing much this game !". Paraphrasing.

#349: More of e saying "oh noes I'm not doing anything that's bad" and still not doing anything. I do not care for it, at all.

e still trying to lynch IDPTG at this point ? Ugh.

#530: e finally accepting that it's Andrew v Dylan, picks Dylan. Definitely doesn't feel partner-y to Andrew either, but fits the bill of scum being present to ensure a lynch goes through and trying to play truthtfully in the meantime. It's a very strange move for town!e to try for an IDPTG wagon for so long here.

Done for now. e is the scummiest player in the game by a fair margin so far.

And there we have it. It seems 50% based on e not being active (but of course me proposing a lurker lynch was *gasp* awful), and 50% on him trying out a different wagon which doesn't work out and close to deadline he decides on one of the main wagon. Both of which are the exact behaviours he showed in M108, as town. Here is a vote 1.5 minutes prior to deadline from that game:

Vote: space

So I ask, how is this scummy?

Just to the last part - E! last minute voted for Space at the EOD in 108 and Space was skum. Therefore, not skummy. Now he votes for Dylan last minute-ish in this game at EOD1 and Dylan flipped town. Not saying people don't make mistakes.. but THAT is how it is skummy.

[Swowl]

not feeling the space wagon

Sentences. Give us more sentences please. With good words in them.

pretty please.

[Swowl]

I was going to try to do a targeted re-read of everyone tonight, but I'm only through the first four in the list so far, and I'm feeling too tired to focus on more already, so I'll put what I've got here. Of these four, Skumpy feels the most scummy, but I was going through in sign-up order, so I haven't reached Andrew yet, and I'm still feeling the wagon there from D1.

e (46 posts): Lots of empty early stuff, but really active at the deadline. Wants to push IDPTG a lot. Joins the Dylan mislynch quite close to deadline when people are already starting not to be available for the night. Tentative townread. Though his most recent post says he thinks I'm probably town, so maybe I subconsciously got buddied, though it's not like I actually remembered that at the start of my re-read!

Skumpy (44 posts): I still find the "If I were skum" mindset a bit worrying. Also, what's with all that "don't want to vote Swan for reasons I'm not talking about" stuff? Wow, he writes long posts.. I think I've mostly only skimmed things of his before. Very few townies in his reads post at #245, and he misses out IDP and me completely for some reason. Very big on over-explaining his votes: could be a scum thing or could just be a verbosity thing. Made a bit of a show of being willing to switch to Andrew at the end of D1, but actually voting and staying on Dylan. Why is his top scum read at #484 a secret? The unvote at #490 was extra-super-unhelpful because it took a potential vote out of the game at a time when I and probably others on my side of the Atlantic were struggling to be present and about to have to call it a night. Comes into D2 with fishy-looking distributions over the cost numbers for the combinations of possible town roles. Admist at #672 that he hasn't given a lot of towncred... could be something possible scum-buddies mentioned in the night, though.

LL/Teproc (44 posts): Hard to get a read on LL. He seems genuine enough, but equally I could convince myself there's a little hint of the LL I saw when he and I were scum together, so I'm not townreading him as hard as I feel like I otherwise could. Let's see what Teproc says.

DatSwan (63 posts): Lots of early setup speculation founded on something incorrect. Then a bunch of middle posts that seem focused on Faust and Raptor kind of oddly. He gets more helpful towards the deadline, with town-to-scum lists that don't miss people off, and do offer plenty at the town end of the spectrum. He has a confusing number of posts where he seems to be misquoting or something.

PPE 1: Cool, now both of e's two most recent posts support me :-)

E! - Agreement

LL/Teproc - Did not read LL as genuine. Not, like, not genuine either.. just weird enough to put him on my list. Didn't play with him as skum in whatever game that was so no opinion there.

Skumpy - As someone who played my entire first town games in the mindset of "if I were skum" I have to disagree with that concept. I do not think the majority of players, Skumpy specifically given the unvote, thought the options at hand were really great. When in that situation, looking at things from a skum perspective can be quite helpful IMO.

Me - Yeah I wasted 48 hours of my life, I suck. I purposefully do not try to piss off people in my summary posts because I find it helps the group be more conducive of skum hunting instead of defending themselves. annnnndddd obviously I suck at quoting.

[Swowl]

I'd do Andrew as Neighborizer.

So that is a no to establishing the order then?

[faust]

#96: e being self-aware, hm.

#140: Nevermind, e is town again.

#236: e oppoing up again to say not much, which reminds me he should have been more of a presence. Town points from earlier are officially rescinded.

#300: A wild e re-appears ! Self-aware again. Weird. Maybe scummy, especially because there's no follow-up to "I sure haven't been doing much this game !". Paraphrasing.

#349: More of e saying "oh noes I'm not doing anything that's bad" and still not doing anything. I do not care for it, at all.

e still trying to lynch IDPTG at this point ? Ugh.

#530: e finally accepting that it's Andrew v Dylan, picks Dylan. Definitely doesn't feel partner-y to Andrew either, but fits the bill of scum being present to ensure a lynch goes through and trying to play truthtfully in the meantime. It's a very strange move for town!e to try for an IDPTG wagon for so long here.

Done for now. e is the scummiest player in the game by a fair margin so far.

And there we have it. It seems 50% based on e not being active (but of course me proposing a lurker lynch was *gasp* awful), and 50% on him trying out a different wagon which doesn't work out and close to deadline he decides on one of the main wagon. Both of which are the exact behaviours he showed in M108, as town. Here is a vote 1.5 minutes prior to deadline from that game:

Vote: space

So I ask, how is this scummy?

Just to the last part - E! last minute voted for Space at the EOD in 108 and Space was skum. Therefore, not skummy. Now he votes for Dylan last minute-ish in this game at EOD1 and Dylan flipped town. Not saying people don't make mistakes.. but THAT is how it is skummy.

I would prefer if you let Teproc answer the questions I posed for him.

[Swowl]

#96: e being self-aware, hm.

#140: Nevermind, e is town again.

#236: e oppoing up again to say not much, which reminds me he should have been more of a presence. Town points from earlier are officially rescinded.

#300: A wild e re-appears ! Self-aware again. Weird. Maybe scummy, especially because there's no follow-up to "I sure haven't been doing much this game !". Paraphrasing.

#349: More of e saying "oh noes I'm not doing anything that's bad" and still not doing anything. I do not care for it, at all.

e still trying to lynch IDPTG at this point ? Ugh.

#530: e finally accepting that it's Andrew v Dylan, picks Dylan. Definitely doesn't feel partner-y to Andrew either, but fits the bill of scum being present to ensure a lynch goes through and trying to play truthtfully in the meantime. It's a very strange move for town!e to try for an IDPTG wagon for so long here.

Done for now. e is the scummiest player in the game by a fair margin so far.

And there we have it. It seems 50% based on e not being active (but of course me proposing a lurker lynch was *gasp* awful), and 50% on him trying out a different wagon which doesn't work out and close to deadline he decides on one of the main wagon. Both of which are the exact behaviours he showed in M108, as town. Here is a vote 1.5 minutes prior to deadline from that game:

Vote: space

So I ask, how is this scummy?

Just to the last part - E! last minute voted for Space at the EOD in 108 and Space was skum. Therefore, not skummy. Now he votes for Dylan last minute-ish in this game at EOD1 and Dylan flipped town. Not saying people don't make mistakes.. but THAT is how it is skummy.

I would prefer if you let Teproc answer the questions I posed for him.

He can still answer.

[faust]

I'd do Andrew as Neighborizer.

So that is a no to establishing the order then?

I don't think there is anything to be gained from establishing an order. Everyone should just name their target in their next post, and perhaps a secondary target in case their first choice gets lynched.

[faust]

So, like:

First choice: Andrew
Sceond choice: Awaclus.

[Swowl]

First Choice: XXR
Second Choice: Faust

[faust]

I would prefer if you let Teproc answer the questions I posed for him.

He can still answer.

I know. But now you have given him something he can build upon. Or alternatvely, you have influenced what he will say. If you had not answered, he would have to come up with an answer all on his own; it gives more insight that way. Usually, when I ask someone a question, it is because I think the answer of that particular player to that particular question will help me determine their alignment. Once other people start to answer, it all gets watered down.

[Swowl]

I would prefer if you let Teproc answer the questions I posed for him.

He can still answer.

I know. But now you have given him something he can build upon. Or alternatvely, you have influenced what he will say. If you had not answered, he would have to come up with an answer all on his own; it gives more insight that way. Usually, when I ask someone a question, it is because I think the answer of that particular player to that particular question will help me determine their alignment. Once other people start to answer, it all gets watered down.

Ah well that is fair enough. Too late on this one sorry, but i will respect that going forward.

[Skumpy]

First choice: faust
Second choice: Space

Lots of rereading still to get done (tomorrow is the day! Probably), for now I will say DatSwan has shot up to the top of my townreads. The entire response post to Teproc reeks of townliness. It's all either stuff I agree with or stuff that I agree would come from the mouth/fingers of townSwan (Twan?)

I'll explain now the 'patience' I had with him day 1: In 105, he found a way to make that post (specifically, the one where he claimed VT) that let me know beyond shadows of doubt that he was town, despite other people scumreading it. Based on a cursory, occasional lookthrough of 108 (I had nothing else to do, I was bored in class!), I never saw that same "Guys, I'm town!" post. So my approach coming into this game was he would start null, and would inch towards scum the longer the game went on and the more often he was unable to write the town post. Hence, why I didn't want to vote him D1 (he made a grand total of 1 post on D1 in 105 so I didn't have much to compare to) and why I didn't want to say why I didn't want to vote him (in case that gave him inspiration on how to craft a townpost). But I think he's done a good job recently with quick accurate responses that match exactly what I'm thinking and seem genuine. With all due respect to Swan, I don't imagine he's capable of this as scum.

More later, sleep now.

[gkrieg13]

First: Faust
Second: Space

[faust]

Aww, everyone wants to be neighbors with me!

[2.71828.....]

First choice: IDPTG
Second choice: Datswan

[Xxraptorslayer96]

First choice: Faust
Second choice: Swan

[faust]

e, gkrieg: Since you are clearly around, want to contribute some more? What do you think of Teproc's opening post?

[SpaceAnemone]

Is it more powerful to create two ICs using the Neighbourizer, or to out a definite scum? I'm guessing the former, but I'm not totally convinced.

For people picking a scumread to neighbourize, then presumably the expectation is that you die in the night, thus revealing that your top pick was evil. In the meantime, scum gets an NK. Then on D3, town presumably uses the lunch to take out the exposed scum, and then at night the remaining scum get another NK. That's quite an expensive way of performing a one-for-one trade, though it might be worth it to take a strong scum player (i.e. faust) out of the game.

For people picking a townread, presumably we're looking at having two ICs, like masons, except that one of them can be specifically picked to be a strong player. I'm never that convinced about the utility of having a separate communication channel, but having two players who can't possibly be scum is pretty huge.

I like gkrieg's track record with reads in general (he was picking faust out as scum in the speccy in the game where faust and I were scum), and he's not posted enough for me to have made up my mind about his alignment, so I think he's going to be my top pick. I need to re-read him to be sure, but tonight I'm organising a work social, so I'm not sure how much reading time I'll have. My second pick is probably faust, though e is vocal and involved enough that I might swing that way, depending on how my faust re-read feels.

[faust]

town presumably uses the lunch to take out the exposed scum

Nasty!

[Awaclus]

First choice: Faust
Second choice: SpaceAnemone

[AndrewisFTTW]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

[Awaclus]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

So that if the neighborizer dies, we know who they targeted.

[AndrewisFTTW]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

So that if the neighborizer dies, we know who they targeted.

And why is that important?

[faust]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

So that if the neighborizer dies, we know who they targeted.

And why is that important?

It's a weak Neigborizer, so if they target scum, they die.

[AndrewisFTTW]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

So that if the neighborizer dies, we know who they targeted.

And why is that important?

It's a weak Neigborizer, so if they target scum, they die.

Ah.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'd pick Teproc or gkrieg.

[faust]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

So that if the neighborizer dies, we know who they targeted.

And why is that important?

It's a weak Neigborizer, so if they target scum, they die.

Ah.

But you don't have to participate, now everyone knows it's not you anyway...

[schadd]

robert plant!

[schadd]

likes ants!

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/HZ4uzD_hLds?t=26s

it is the springtime of my lovin
the second season i am to know
you are the sunlight in my growin
so little warmth i've felt before
it isn't hard to feel me glowin
i watch the fire, that grew so low, oh

Vote count 2.4

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Skumpy
Awaclus (2): 2.71828..., DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (3): Teproc, AndrewisFTTW, IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (2): faust, gkrieg13
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus

not voting (2) : SpaceAnemone, Xxraptorslayer96

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends sunday, november 19th at 00:00 forum time.

mod notes

• idptg will be VLA tomorrow - sunday

mod quotes:

deadline extended by 24hr again.

why?

replacement

[AndrewisFTTW]

First choice: DatSwan
Second choice: gkrieg

What's the point of this again?

So that if the neighborizer dies, we know who they targeted.

And why is that important?

It's a weak Neigborizer, so if they target scum, they die.

Ah.

But you don't have to participate, now everyone knows it's not you anyway...

Or maybe it is and I'm trying to throw everyone off my trail! #mafia #wifom #blessed

[Teproc]

Ok, day 2 now

Swan doing a bunch of NK analysis. It's fine. I don't think it's clear enough who Galz targeted to learn much, and he's a pretty vanilla kill target.

Skumpy's big post is pretty townie, trying to do what  worked in M105.

faust is prickly, which is generally townie right ?

#590: e finally doing stuff. Though an Awaclus vote is pretty meh.

#598: Space being super hedgy, which I think is scummy for them.

I have no idea what my vocal range or whatever is btw.

Swan asking why Galz was killed feels strange, given that he was in a scumteam that almost killed Galz for typical reasons (ie not PR-related) in M108.

#609: faust following e on Awaclus, which I find surprising.

#612: e describing why an Awaclus lynch is a coin toss (with weighted odds for whatever the ratio is at that point in the game, you get what I mean). But finds him scummy for his response. His response to what ? e ? To your vote on him ?

Andrew is being funny again. I actually think it's relevant, he seems really relaxed, which I think means town. His work is also better directed than other people's (read: Swan) early D2.

Yep, more good stuff from Andrew (in the #670s), though I don't agree with much of it.

#684: Swan votes for Awaclus, which, alright, I guess he might get a pass for not having played with Awaclus before, but still. It's not that I particularly think Awaclus is town (again, a weighted coinflip), it's just that if he is, he's a veeeery nice place to have your vote as scum.

gkrieg is very Lost-like, which I thought was scummy then but it was apparently not, so I guess it's townie.

#692: e trying to bribe me with a "X is town" post. I see what you're doing, e.

And this is where I replace in.

[Teproc]

Space (3): gkrieg, Swan, ANdrew
Andrew (3): IDPTG, Space, Skumpy
LL (2): Galz, Dylan
Dylan (2): faust, LL
faust (2): Raptor, Awaclus
IDPTG (1): e

Seems pretty safe to bet at least one scum has 2 votes on them.

Is there any reason for this assumption other than basic probability?

Most of it is the basic probability yes (though I have no idea what it actually is, if Space wants to have fun with that), but also what the game felt like rereading it. It fels like there was a certain tension: I think the game would have felt completely dead if all wagons were on town. Harder to tell rereading of course.

Re: e, I think I'm pretty good at reading e, and he usually gives me towntells, especially lately. You'll recall that I had a pretty strong town read on him all game in M108, and here he is giving me nothing. Even on day 2, he just basically feels like he's done nothing this game, and I think that's more of a scum!e trait. Town!e, even if he's not active, is impactful when he posts. He just hasn't been here.

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

vote: Swan

In other news, ANdrew, Skumpy and Space are town. Raptor and Awaclus are complete cyphers, faust is somewhere between scummy and null, gkrieg is kinda townie.

Who am I missing ? Right, IDPTG. Townie, I think, but not overly so.

[Teproc]

Oh, the Neighborizer thing.

First choice: gkrieg
Second choice: faust

[AndrewisFTTW]

How do you go from this:

#598: Space being super hedgy, which I think is scummy for them.

To this:

In other news, ANdrew, Skumpy and Space are town.

?

[Teproc]

Space posted other stuff in between, that was just regaular townie constructive stuff, I guess I forgot to note it, but it reminded me that I had already seen that from them on D1, and judging by M108, Space is all hedge all the time. Here, they hedged that one post, but had more decisive reads in not even a quarter of the posts they had in M108.

[Teproc]

Reread IDP expecting to want to vote him through inactivity, but I'm not feeling that right now.
Skumpy is entertaining and new, so he can stay.
Galz and faust are fine as they are.
Awaclus is being Awaclusy.
Could quite happily vote Andrew; his contributions don't have much content. I tend to scum-read him anyway, though.
LL is being quiet mostly. His talking at corss-purposes to Awaclus about the weak neighbourizer make me think they're not a scum team.
Swan's fakable townslip then weird breakdown of not-the-setup are probably more from inattention than scumminess for now, I think. I was scum with him last time I played, and he doesn't feel quite the same.
Dylan isn't here. I usually like Dylan and his playstyle, so I'm happy not lynching him yet.
Raptor needs to put in some personal text somewhere that lets us isolate his posts for targeted re-reads!
chairs is lurky as usual. THe part where he's voting to lynch me is less good. Not averse to returning the favour, but there are better targets for now.
e is talkative. Would be nice if he engaged with discussions more. But the same complaint could be made about me too.

I'll vote: Andrew for tonight.

Just a post like this one (early day 1) has more reads than a whole day of scum!Spacein M108.

Awaclus and datswan are scum

Vote: Awaclus

That's not true. I promoted pro-town play for the entire duration of the day, you can see me genuinely scumhunt and I was off wagon for the town lynch.

Where can I see you genuinely scumhunt?

I'd lynch faust or Galzria for the time being.

As a result, I eventually (correctly) identified Galzria as someone I didn't want to lynch.

I'm not sure that's exactly the kind of community-spirited scum-hunting that most people think of when describing particular behaviour as scum-hunting.

I kind of feel like you're being more of a parody of yourself here than you often are. But you're an easy-to-push mislynch target, too, so I won't jump on the wagon yet.

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both).

Meh. You don't have to believe it for it to be true. You're the people who're new to me here, which is the major thing you have in common. You're largely unaware of people's personal metas, and we're largely unaware of yours with the exception of the twin/triplet claim stuff. I know most of you have played one other game around here, and I was on the scumteam with Swan in the last game I played in, but I still don't feel like I have a good measure of him.

Anyway, my reads summary back at #340 lumped all three of you together in the less-towny end of my feelings about people. I've said I'm happy enough with a wagon on any of you, so I don't really think that my pointing out that I'm prone to getting confused between you is helping supposed scum buddies. I mainly said it to give town a hand understanding me, and also for help understanding the "twin claim" thing, since the only place I'd come across it before was Swan in the game where we were both scum, and other there, there seemed to be more pressing stuff to discuss. I think without having had it explained, I'd have assumed it would mean that the involved people have similar thought processes or metas, rather than just that they know each other IRL.

This (both posts) feels pretty stright-forward in ways that they didn't feel in M108 either.

It's not much, but considering Space's scum!meta I think it's pretty indicative.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Space, why haven't you given us your probabilities for scum roles after coming up with a result that disagrees with the previously presented numbers?

[Swowl]

Hey guys this is like wayyyyyyyy ahead of schedule but I wanted to bring it up - Next Thursday is American Thanksgiving (there is a Canadian one too I think). To be specific it falls on November 23rd.
Just noting right now I will be cooking for like 48 straight hours during that time so I will be VLA from 23rd-25th.
Was also wondering how many other would be similarly unavailable and if possibly an extension would be in order for that day (assuming those players still in the game). Don't really know what the rules are on that.

[Swowl]

People with more context than I  - Are Teproc and LL normally on the same page with reads, off the same page, or not a factor?

[Skumpy]

Has anybody else besides me gotten no neighborly love? I think that's a good sign for me?

DatSwan's still my biggest townread, I don't see him forging the interactions and responses that he has been. Next is still Andrew, the attitude's more familiar now. Interesting that I’m completely at odds with Space on this.

Faust agreeing on my two biggest townreads but not townreading me, I think I like. Since I give him town support, this makes his scum though. Oh well. One way or another, I've got an "I told you so" argument. I'll probably give him another day anyhow, against my better judgment.

Raptor posted reads - that's new. He did no bussing at all his first game. I think if he's scum, there has to be a scum in the scum reads. I could see it being Awaclus or 2.7 if this is the case.

Teproc: On the one hand, I really disagree with the Swan read. On the other...I can't help but think of him as my innocent child and I really want to townread him and his laundry list reads. But I think he's another person who I'm always going to misread. And he's so different from Lalight that I keep forgetting it's the same role/slot/person. And LaLight was not very helpful (although now that he's outed, I don't know if it's a scumtell, him unable to focus because of IRL shenanigans, or me just being unfamiliar with his play. Maybe all 3). I don't really want to vote Teproc because he might be able to clean his name from LaLight's blight, but I also really want to because I'm worried he's scum and he will do so.

Space: There's scum townreading me for sure, but I'd imagine scum likes to keep their reads diverse. So if scumSpace sees two partners not accusing me, they might think "hey, there's somebody different I can go after", not knowing that when I'm town, I'm apparently reallllly good at convincing everybody in a handful of postings. [another deleted vote formerly resided here] Was there some OMGUS there? Probably 

And all in all, back to Vote 2.7. There is scum who says they think I'm town, and I'm going with e out of a really large pool. The accusation of IDPTG feels weird - I know he wasn't at the top of my charts D1, and 2.7 has to see that nobody else is making a case against him and nobody else was willing to lynch him. Could also see a forged interaction with Awaclus (whoever said they could see one between Awaclus and Andrew, I think I'm gonna reject that notion).

If decision comes down to Teproc or Space, I think I'd go with Space, for now anyways. I had more written that I was trying a definite-scum-in-Space-or-Teproc, but I deleted it. Partially because I like the 2.7 vote more, partially because I don't have a good track record with D2 elimination. Lynch pool for me stands at {2.7, Teproc, Space, Awaclus, Raptor}. I keep forgetting to seriously read into gkrieg and IDPTG as scum (so probably scum there, of course), still not quite ready to go for faust, definitely not doing Swan or Andrew again.

[faust]

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

Does he feel not similar to a town game of his?

[Skumpy]

Right now, I feel like the kid at the corner table at lunch talking to myself, alone with my juicebox and mother-made PB&J, while all the other students fight and die around me.

If anybody wants to ask me stuff, I'll be around, doing work at like 4 in the morning again. 

[faust]

Hey guys this is like wayyyyyyyy ahead of schedule but I wanted to bring it up - Next Thursday is American Thanksgiving (there is a Canadian one too I think). To be specific it falls on November 23rd.
Just noting right now I will be cooking for like 48 straight hours during that time so I will be VLA from 23rd-25th.
Was also wondering how many other would be similarly unavailable and if possibly an extension would be in order for that day (assuming those players still in the game). Don't really know what the rules are on that.

The rules is whatever schadd says. There are a decent amount of US people in the game, I think over half of them, so it might be a good thing.

[faust]

Right now, I feel like the kid at the corner table at lunch talking to myself, alone with my juicebox and mother-made PB&J, while all the other students fight and die around me.

What school did you go to?!

[faust]

Skumpy: I'm not really getting why you don't want to lynch Teproc as much as others. Is there anything in his play that makes it so? Or is it just that he's new to the game?

[Skumpy]

Skumpy: I'm not really getting why you don't want to lynch Teproc as much as others. Is there anything in his play that makes it so? Or is it just that he's new to the game?

Don't know if you're referring to Teproc or LaLight/Teproc, so I'll answer both.

LaLight/Teproc: Other people seemed scummier, even though it was a consistent like 3rd/4th from the top. I never cast a vote for LaLight, but there was never anything that said 'town' to me. I agreed with the people who said he was being unhelpful, but now, as I said, I don't know how much of it was caused by his IRL issues. Then again, that and being scum aren't mutually exclusive events. I was the one who suggested we lynch him to solve the problems before he got replaced, you may recall.

Teproc: Partially the current wagon, though it I know it does trickle from LaLight. To be perfectly honest, even though I write really long posts, I'm too lazy to actually read them by other people  I skimmed it without really double-checking for context, nothing stood out besides the scum read on 2.7 (which I agreed with) and the scum read on Swan (which I vehemently disagreed with). Other than Swan and Space, none of the reads particularly struck me as questionable, though that's easy to do when everybody's at null. I think he reads me as town regardless of alignment.

And also, above all else, it's my instincts that tell me 'Ok, he's new, let's see what he's up to' while I forget that this is still the LaLight account. I guess it just doesn't seem fair to lynch someone after 2 days of playtime? And maybe I also still think of him as confirmed town subconsciously? Honestly, I should do another reread of the long posts and see how I feel after it. But that is still a lynch I am more willing to support than a lot of others, and I don't dismiss the possibility that of the two current wagons of Space and Teproc, one is correct.

Will do said reread at some point in...the next few hours?

[faust]

Alright, let's do a LaLight reread, see where it gets us.

Let’s discuss something even if it’s a terrible idea

This is regarding some theory issue. I don't like it, why push for theory discussion if you think it's terrible? It only serves to out town PRs.

Why are you voting Chairs?

Rvs and his first post which was weird

Conflating RVS with real reads is never good.

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

I think he is acting weird compared to other games is all. Do you think Dylan is scum? I am not opposed to voting for Dylan, but I don't remember a single thing he said

Well he has only two posts, so you did not miss much. None of them contains even a hint of a read. Early on that was sufficient reason to vote already. Now the case is strengthened by LAL.

okay, let's do this then. vote: Dylan32

Super careful wagon hopping.

well, I can see why people are voting for me

Scummy.

I'm trying to find a reason to vote for someone else, but nothing is sticking out.

super scummy. I feel very same when I am scum.

Hm. Compare to:

Rvs and his first post which was weird

It cannot be both.

Second more than first. To be sincere i thoufht “i need to vote for someone” then I saw his post and thought, that’s more scummy than anything before it

Why did you feel the need to vote for someone?

I didn’t. I like to start game with vote so when the person is scum i can say  i told you

Day 2 starts like this:

vote: Xx

Completely out of nowhere.

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

I don't like this vote one bit.

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

Well, I pretty much thought for the whole D1 that Dylan was scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And that, as gkrieg said, just doesn't come from town!LaLight. Dylan was VLA for most of D1 too, and LaLight only jumped the wagon after my encouragement, so it's demonstrably false.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Alright, let's do a LaLight reread, see where it gets us.

Let’s discuss something even if it’s a terrible idea

This is regarding some theory issue. I don't like it, why push for theory discussion if you think it's terrible? It only serves to out town PRs.

Why are you voting Chairs?

Rvs and his first post which was weird

Conflating RVS with real reads is never good.

Let’s see where vote: DatSwan will get us

Nowhere, probably. Do you think DatSwan is scum?

I think he is acting weird compared to other games is all. Do you think Dylan is scum? I am not opposed to voting for Dylan, but I don't remember a single thing he said

Well he has only two posts, so you did not miss much. None of them contains even a hint of a read. Early on that was sufficient reason to vote already. Now the case is strengthened by LAL.

okay, let's do this then. vote: Dylan32

Super careful wagon hopping.

well, I can see why people are voting for me

Scummy.

I'm trying to find a reason to vote for someone else, but nothing is sticking out.

super scummy. I feel very same when I am scum.

Hm. Compare to:

Rvs and his first post which was weird

It cannot be both.

Second more than first. To be sincere i thoufht “i need to vote for someone” then I saw his post and thought, that’s more scummy than anything before it

Why did you feel the need to vote for someone?

I didn’t. I like to start game with vote so when the person is scum i can say  i told you

Day 2 starts like this:

vote: Xx

Completely out of nowhere.

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

I don't like this vote one bit.

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

Well, I pretty much thought for the whole D1 that Dylan was scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And that, as gkrieg said, just doesn't come from town!LaLight. Dylan was VLA for most of D1 too, and LaLight only jumped the wagon after my encouragement, so it's demonstrably false.

What do you think of a LaLight (Teproc)/Space team?

[faust]

What do you think of a LaLight (Teproc)/Space team?

I don't think Space is scum, and I have not spent a lot of time thinking about partner interactions.

[gkrieg13]

I like faust's post about LaLight/Teproc.  That is seriously where people should be voting right now.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space, why haven't you given us your probabilities for scum roles after coming up with a result that disagrees with the previously presented numbers?

I didn't to spoiler you guys if someone else wanted to attempt the exercise before I provided solutions. That, plus the numbers are on my laptop and I didn't even bother taking it home from work overnight last night because of the work social, so I was just phone-posting. Oh, and a third reason was that I pulled out all sorts of numbers but wanted to see if anyone expressed interest in particular sorts of numbers before I post things.

I'll post things now, though. I'm putting it in a code block so it doesn't take up too much thread-space. Unless people have specifically game-useful stuff to discuss on the back of this, it's maybe best not to have a whole numbers-theory discussion in response, since this crawling enough as it is :-/

Code: [Select]

Current possible roles and likelihoods:
Cost 4, prob 0.0571 Neigh, JK+RC
Cost 4, prob 0.0571 Tra, JK+RC
Cost 5, prob 0.0571 Vig, JK+RC
Cost 5, prob 0.0571 Doc/Nea, JK+RC
Cost 6, prob 0.0571 JK+RC, MoDet
Cost 5, prob 0.0429 Neigh, Tra, JK+RC
Cost 6, prob 0.0429 Neigh, Vig, JK+RC
Cost 6, prob 0.0429 Neigh, Doc/Nea, JK+RC
Cost 7, prob 0.0429 Neigh, JK+RC, MoDet
Cost 6, prob 0.0429 Tra, Vig, JK+RC
Cost 6, prob 0.0429 Tra, Doc/Nea, JK+RC
Cost 7, prob 0.0429 Tra, JK+RC, MoDet
Cost 7, prob 0.0429 Vig, Doc/Nea, JK+RC
Cost 8, prob 0.0429 Vig, JK+RC, MoDet
Cost 8, prob 0.0429 Doc/Nea, JK+RC, MoDet
Cost 7, prob 0.0571 Neigh, Tra, Vig, JK+RC
Cost 7, prob 0.0571 Neigh, Tra, Doc/Nea, JK+RC
Cost 8, prob 0.0571 Neigh, Tra, JK+RC, MoDet
Cost 8, prob 0.0571 Neigh, Vig, Doc/Nea, JK+RC
Cost 8, prob 0.0571 Tra, Vig, Doc/Nea, JK+RC


Current probability of having each cost:
Cost 4 -> prob 0.1143
Cost 5 -> prob 0.1571
Cost 6 -> prob 0.2286
Cost 7 -> prob 0.2429
Cost 8 -> prob 0.2571


Current probability of having each role:
0.4571 chance of having Neigh.
0.4571 chance of having Tra.
0.4000 chance of having Vig.
0.4000 chance of having Doc/Nea.
1.0000 chance of having JK+RC.
0.2857 chance of having MoDet.

[Teproc]

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

Does he feel not similar to a town game of his?

No, he doesn't. Does this Swan look like M105!Swan to you ?

[Swowl]

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

Does he feel not similar to a town game of his?

No, he doesn't. Does this Swan look like M105!Swan to you ?

I feel like Swan from 110 TBH.

[Swowl]

Awculus clearly isn’t happenig so i am i un voting that.
unvote

I feel kind of off between the LL and Teproc switch. I was reading LL as pretty heavy skum and Teproc seems to genuinely be attempting to hunt, which is different. All in all the only thing that changed is the fact that going forward we have Teproc instead of LL, which i guess is a town uograde. Still can’t forget about skum actions from LL though.

Re read at work to be sure but probably good with a Tep vote.

[faust]

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

Does he feel not similar to a town game of his?

No, he doesn't. Does this Swan look like M105!Swan to you ?

I haven't really thought about it.

[faust]

Awculus clearly isn’t happenig so i am i un voting that.
unvote

Well, how does unvoting help more than keeping your vote on Awaclus?

[Swowl]

Awculus clearly isn’t happenig so i am i un voting that.
unvote

Well, how does unvoting help more than keeping your vote on Awaclus?

Short answer - it is my opinion that creating a situation where we go split wagon again towards end of day, would be beneficial for skum. Until i am done with re read i want to remove that from the table.

Gimme like 2 hours I’ll vote back somewhere when I’m done.

[2.71828.....]

Awculus clearly isn’t happenig so i am i un voting that.
unvote

I know, right?  no one likes my case for some reason.

[Swowl]

OK I have read to death and I am going with the EOD1 votes as a jumping off point:

Based on logic of self preservation, combined with the fact we were split wagon at the end of the day, I am assuming there was a mix of 2 skum on one wagon and 1 on the other (and then maybe the unvoter of course). Putting Skumpy aside for the moment that means for me at least that:

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32 - leaving Space, Awaclus, and GK

Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96 - leaving Faust, LL/Teproc, E!, IDPTG, and XXR (removed Andrew for previous mentioned self-preservation reasons. not saying off my list or whatever, just off this list).

That is (3) on Andrew [Space, Awaclus, and GK] and (5) on Dylan [Faust, LL/Teproc, E!, IDPTG, XXR]. I have to go with my reads, as it is all we have, and I am reading Faust as my one like clear clear town. So, from my perspective - feel free to apply yours as needed - that leaves the
(3) on Andrew -[Space, Awaclus, and GK]
and
(4) on Dylan [LL/Teproc, E!, IDPTG, XXR]
and of course
(1) Not voting [Skumpy]

Top three for me would be [LL/Teproc, E!, and Awaclus]. In that order. So for now I will sit with Vote: Teproc.

Also would like to mention that in my re read I am admitting I may have been overly defending of XXR. There is a potential skum there. I don't believe he is the best lynch today, please someone feel free to change my mind as I just want some input at this point, but I think between my listed 3 we are shooting 66%.

Also, then there is the Skumpster. Just saying it. Not saying skum read or anything, but the unvote just seems so overly cautious when it was obvious one of the 2 choices was going to get lynched.

[Skumpy]

Also, then there is the Skumpster. Just saying it. Not saying skum read or anything, but the unvote just seems so overly cautious when it was obvious one of the 2 choices was going to get lynched.

Again: I lost all confidence in the waning hours and I didn't know who I'd rather vote for. In hindsight, I do believe both options were bad. Also, lovin' 'Skumpster', more of that please.

Top three for me would be [LL/Teproc, E!, and Awaclus]. In that order. So for now I will sit with Vote: Teproc.

Didn't you just say E was one of the towniest?


I sincerely don't understand why nobody wants to lynch 2.7. Do a reread (it's a lot nicer on the eye than it is to reread me, trust me!), it's a lot of empty posting, even more than LaLight. And then I think "But he's not dumb! He HAS to know this doesn't fly as scum. Right?" But then nobody cares. Space gives him towncred for... being active at the deadline? I was active too, but I get bupkis (that's Yiddish for 'nothing')? Or maybe I am just totally wrong and I'm trying to lynch someone whose game I don't know. Eh. It'll happen.

I really don't know at this point. I don't think it's Andrew, I don't think it's DatSwan, and that's all I got. I can read everybody else (and heck, even the above two to a degree) and think "well, what if they were scum? Sure, I could see them doing that." I'm gonna say from 1.5 games of experience that it's tough to use votes as leads until scum is caught. I appreciate Swan trying to do that...and then he makes a lynch pool of people from BOTH wagons, which completely defeated the purpose.

@faust: To expand on the LL/Teproc thing - I agree that LL is very scummy. I disagree that Teproc is. I went through the reads, nothing strikes me as crazy, but I don't know what scum!Teproc would say in a reread that would make me suspicious. I like the 2.7 scumread, I don't know why you have an issue with suspecting somebody who doesn't post a lot of content or overall reads. Then again, he does vote for DatSwan because DatSwan voted Awaclus and it's very 'unsuspicious' of scum to do. That is a bit of a stretch, and the Teproc reads suggest he's scumreading 2.7 harder, so that vote does seem odd.


Between LL/Teproc and Space, the two biggest wagons with < 1 day...I don't know. I understand the faust push on LT (minus the e read). Teproc, I just know, having never had to read him before, is someone who I'm going to have a tough time reading in general. He talks the talk and walks the walk. I'm leaning town, so probably scum, and yes, joining halfway through a game does not negate the LL postings. Space apparently doesn't read people as scum, but they did here, so they're town. K? They also made a big show in #738 with the neighborizer...if you're going to ration your wordcount between posts, unlike me  , that's not the post that needs more words. I was thinking before this might be a "we caught a scum" situation, but the who's-off and the overall mood of lethargy makes me wonder if its just 2 town again. We'll find out soon enough.

I'm gonna suck up my insecurity (kinda) and say I will be voting for Teproc between Teproc and Space if people still don't care about 2.7. I don't really agree with people dropping the Awaclus wagon, there's still time enough (and I could see myself joining if I do a reread, which will not be happening now because it is now 4 o'clock). That would make it Teproc 4, Space 2, with Space and Teproc both currently not voting.

[faust]

@faust: To expand on the LL/Teproc thing - I agree that LL is very scummy. I disagree that Teproc is. I went through the reads, nothing strikes me as crazy, but I don't know what scum!Teproc would say in a reread that would make me suspicious. I like the 2.7 scumread, I don't know why you have an issue with suspecting somebody who doesn't post a lot of content or overall reads. Then again, he does vote for DatSwan because DatSwan voted Awaclus and it's very 'unsuspicious' of scum to do. That is a bit of a stretch, and the Teproc reads suggest he's scumreading 2.7 harder, so that vote does seem odd.

If LaLight was scummy, it doesn't matter if Teproc isn't. Teproc would have to be very townie to nullify the LaLight read, and he just isn't. If anything, the LaLight stuff is more indicative as we know he didn't have a lot of time, and that makes it harder for scum to hide their intentions.

I have an issue with the e read because activity level is generally not a scumtell.

[Teproc]

I'm not scumreading e for being inactive. I'm scumreading him for not being impactful.

[2.71828.....]

I am also kind of confused why people aren't going after me more.  At first I was genuinely busy, then I fell behind, etc.  Then I had an idea to just kind of hide in the shadows and see if scum would go after me. 

But enough of that.  reread time

[faust]

I am also kind of confused why people aren't going after me more.  At first I was genuinely busy, then I fell behind, etc.  Then I had an idea to just kind of hide in the shadows and see if scum would go after me. 

But enough of that.  reread time

Well good, now you can go vote Teproc.

[Swowl]

Also, then there is the Skumpster. Just saying it. Not saying skum read or anything, but the unvote just seems so overly cautious when it was obvious one of the 2 choices was going to get lynched.

Again: I lost all confidence in the waning hours and I didn't know who I'd rather vote for. In hindsight, I do believe both options were bad. Also, lovin' 'Skumpster', more of that please.

Top three for me would be [LL/Teproc, E!, and Awaclus]. In that order. So for now I will sit with Vote: Teproc.

Didn't you just say E was one of the towniest?

I changed my mind after re read.

[Teproc]

I am also kind of confused why people aren't going after me more.  At first I was genuinely busy, then I fell behind, etc.  Then I had an idea to just kind of hide in the shadows and see if scum would go after me. 

But enough of that.  reread time

vote: e

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I’ll rerad this today. Sorry,been busy.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Can someone verify that day ends in less then 12 hours? Or am I a day off?

[Teproc]

Can someone verify that day ends in less then 12 hours? Or am I a day off?

You're a day off, it ends at midnight on Sunday (forum time).

[2.71828.....]

Can someone verify that day ends in less then 12 hours? Or am I a day off?

You're a day off, it ends at midnight on Sunday (forum time).

0000 usually means the very beginning of the day though. So, midnight tonight makes sense.

mod, in how many hours is the deadline?

10 after this was posted. i.e., "tonight"

[Teproc]

Sorry, this always confuses me. If it's in 8 hours... ugh, the only wagon besides me is on Space ? I'll vote there if I need to I guess, But i'd rather not.

[Teproc]

I guess I can vote: Raptor. Awaclus would be fine too I suppose.

[Teproc]

Also if e's interpretation of the deadline is correct, that means I'll be sleeping through it, so it'd be nice to have people around now or in the next, like, two hours. Because I can't very well stop people from mislynching me if my vote is sitting on a random wagon people are not interested in.

I guess I'll go back to vote: e for now, I do think that's our best shot at hitting scum.

[Awaclus]

The deadline is coming? Oh well, I like my vote where it is.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Mostly gut but I think Teproc is town. Other than that I'm not really that picky. e and Awaclus aren't doing anything towny, the last few things DatSwan have posted have seemed scummy to me, faust I'm wary about, raptor I'm slightly scumreading, Skumpy I think is town.

Vote: e

[gkrieg13]

I think LaLight was way scummier than e.

Definitely leaving my vote on Teproc.

[SpaceAnemone]

I've done my next batch of re-reads!

Andrew (81 posts): Pushing Swan pretty hard on D1, then one of the first content posts he made in D2 says he thinks he's town. Did a lot of rag-to-bull stuff with Awaclus, which is a good way of beign seen to be engaging without actually having to do a lot. Huh, I missed the negation in his comment at #662 the first time I read it. He complained about how nobody can read him a bunch of posts ago, but at #666 he's jumping onto my wagon with Skumpy's bad case about my getting confused between the three newbies. At #668/#669 he goes through the whole D1 mislynch wagon looking for people to scumread but doesn't end up moving his vote from me, who was on his wagon instead of Dylan's all along. Makes a big unhlepful deal about not getting how the weak neighbourizer works. I have kind of a feeling he did something similar while talking past LL early in D1, but I'd have to go back to check. I'm still not feeling many townie vibes from here.

Raptor (24 posts): Several listy things, very little content at all. The first reads list hedges on most things. Reads as kind of young/lacking in confidence, which might happen if someone is playing up their newbie status a bit to hide scumminess. I got away with that really nicely in my first ever scum game. And urgh, that D1 hammer :-( Boring imgus vote at #670. There's a bunch of factual comments masquerading as reads at #718. He's talked a couple of times about "not having interactions" with people, as if that prevents him from reading their interactions with other people... seems kind of constructed to me. Yeah, happy to vote here if it comes to it. Nullish-scum.

Chairs/gkrieg (4+24 posts): The chairs part is pretty lacking and uninformative, though he gets a scumpoint or two for his vote on me early on for being "not!Space". Gkrieg is clearly misguided (emacs!), but reads me well in his livestream re-read. Ah, just been reminded of his comment about DatSwan and the townslips vs being town. I think the third option gkrieg failed to consider is that the scums could all be drawn from the pool of non-mathsy people, since I get the impression there are quite a few. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how mathsy Chairs is? I like gkrieg's D2 opening for a bit of towniness. Aw, I made it to second on gkrieg's neighbourizer list. Not so worried about him being scum yet.

[Teproc]

I think LaLight was way scummier than e.

Definitely leaving my vote on Teproc.

Who else do you think is scummy ?

[SpaceAnemone]

Um.. afterthought: Is this neighbourizer-target-claiming exercise giving too much info to scum? They know who most of the likely neighbourzers will target now, meaning even if they can't take out the neighbourizer by knowing exactly who it is, they can take out the most likely target. If that target is town, it town means we don't get our nice pair of ICs, because we risk one of the scum forcing a potential trade-off by making a neighbourizer counter-claim.

I'm not sure how much there is that we can do about the risk, but I do think it's more townie to say something in-thread than it is to sit on this. Hope the rest of you to whom this might also have occurred also agree with that..

[Skumpy]

The deadline is coming? Oh well, I like my vote where it is.

...I refuse to give you the satisfaction of my giving in and responding to this. But know the annoyance exists, so mission accomplished to you.

So Teproc and Andrew just left the Space wagon for e, which both gladdens to me know that I'm having some impact, and also terrifies me that scum is taking advantage of my misread.

@faust: To expand on the LL/Teproc thing - I agree that LL is very scummy. I disagree that Teproc is. I went through the reads, nothing strikes me as crazy, but I don't know what scum!Teproc would say in a reread that would make me suspicious. I like the 2.7 scumread, I don't know why you have an issue with suspecting somebody who doesn't post a lot of content or overall reads. Then again, he does vote for DatSwan because DatSwan voted Awaclus and it's very 'unsuspicious' of scum to do. That is a bit of a stretch, and the Teproc reads suggest he's scumreading 2.7 harder, so that vote does seem odd.

If LaLight was scummy, it doesn't matter if Teproc isn't. Teproc would have to be very townie to nullify the LaLight read, and he just isn't. If anything, the LaLight stuff is more indicative as we know he didn't have a lot of time, and that makes it harder for scum to hide their intentions.

I have an issue with the e read because activity level is generally not a scumtell.

Dylan laughs at you from the graveyard. You contradict yourself so freely, and I know you're aware of it too. As Teproc said, there's not posting, and then there's empty posting. The latter does not warrant a pass when all you've done is go after 2 people on two different days, read me as town (which is never surprising from anyone), read Swan as scum (still seems bad), and read you(faust) as town (which is the most interesting, and he's not alone in doing so either).

I UNDERSTAND that Teproc doesn't nullify LaLight, but he's been impactful in his short time here, which is more than I can say for 2.7. He is an OG though, and I refuse to underestimate his scum ability. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I think you and him are both people who I'm always going to go against my instincts with. Take away the Teproc posts, I don't see much difference between the way LL and 2.7 have played thusly far.



I don't think there's more than 1 scum currently sitting on either wagon. Awaclus has not been willing to participate with either of them. Space thinks both are town, IDPTG I don't think has weighed in. Raptor voted LL, gave Teproc the Benefit o' Doubt, and scumread 2.7.

 I need to go grab food now, I'll be back to this in like 60 minutes to think it over again (I know I'm ruining European lives again. But saturation comes before victory). There is a possibility both wagons are correct, which is the light I will cling to.

 

PPE: A few

[Teproc]

Yeah, I'm only going to be around for one mour hour, tops.

What's an OG ?

[gkrieg13]

I think LaLight was way scummier than e.

Definitely leaving my vote on Teproc.

Who else do you think is scummy ?

Andrew and faust.

[Teproc]

Well I could go for faust, but I have to log off now. So... please don't lynch me ?

[gkrieg13]

Well I could go for faust, but I have to log off now. So... please don't lynch me ?

Super convincing.

[Skumpy]

Yeah, I'm only going to be around for one mour hour, tops.

What's an OG ?

Original Gangster. I know you're O, but I don't know how much G you are. But I have no evidence to suggest against it.

Anyways, I'm back, and Teproc's gone. Time to read back and try to make a final decision with about 4.5 hours left.

[Swowl]

hm. I also thought the game ended TOMORROW night so I am super thankful for you guys asking that.

may I request a vote count please?

[schadd]

Vote count 2.5

Awaclus (1): 2.71828...
SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (3): faust, gkrieg13, DatSwan
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (3): Skumpy, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

not voting (2) : SpaceAnemone, Xxraptorslayer96

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends sunday, november 19th at 00:00 forum time, in a few hours

mod notes

• idptg is VLA

mod quotes:

Can someone verify that day ends in less then 12 hours? Or am I a day off?

You're a day off, it ends at midnight on Sunday (forum time).

0000 usually means the very beginning of the day though. So, midnight tonight makes sense.

mod, in how many hours is the deadline?

10 after this was posted. i.e., "tonight"

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hey people, let's get a lynch going. I gotta leave the house soon and wont be back.

[2.71828.....]

oh crud, people are voting for me. 

vote: teproc

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I think I would rather the vote: 2.718 over teproc. I will be around for the most part

[2.71828.....]

See, now the scum come out to jump on my wagon.

Actually, I think there is a lot of town here

[2.71828.....]

First of all, Awaclus is (and always was) the best lynch.

That isn't happening.  Now Teproc makes a good alternative for all the reasons everyone else has said.

[2.71828.....]

oh, and I am a VT in case anyone was curious

[2.71828.....]

claiming stuff is fun

[AndrewisFTTW]

I could do Teproc too just for the record.

[Skumpy]

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)
So if I'm correct, it's Skumpy, Andrew, Raptor vs 2.7, & faust, gkrieg, DatSwan vs Teproc, with Space, IDPTG, Awaclus currently off and unlikely to be back (except maybe Awaclus, for whatever good that'll do)


First: quick reminder that LL was Galzria's most likely target. Doesn't really mean anything, there would've been scum more under the radar, but a point in his favor (this was the first thing I wrote in this post, it ends up actually meaning nothing).

I could do Teproc too just for the record.

Dtto, and in fact...Vote: Teproc    L-1? If this is town, I'm starting tomorrow with 2.7 (I'm realizing how incredibly parallel this is with my 105, which is a bad sign for the battle but a great sign for the war). Not really because I think there has to be a scum here, but because they're both really scummy.

Biggest factor for me now: while doing a reread, I really didn't want to believe in finding potential teams and just wanted to find the scummiest. But man: there is one hell of a case for a Teproc/XX team.

vote: Xx

First vote of the day. I inferred the reason was for the hammer, but it's never said.

vote: LL

Returning the favor, with a flavor of OMGUS. He didn't bus even once as scum first time around (true enough anyways), no way he doesn't try it at all this time.

The Teproc day 1 read: Nothing for XX besides the hammer, which was null. If I was willing to vote for XX, then there was definitely stuff of interest there, which he neglects to mention.

Unvote — Welcome Tep

Reads
Scum
Andrew- Did his team save him from being lynched D1?
2.71828- flying pretty far under the radar ( I know, ironic coming from me). Just feel like hes not trying this game, out of character for him?
Awaclus- I guess this is just more of a gut feeling. The back and forth's with Andrew seem kind setup. Team?

null
Teproc- just entered the game. Giving him the benefit of the doubt at first.
Gkrieg- I️ have not had very many interactions with this player
Skumpy- scummier side of null. Strange as always. Nothing in particular that makes me think he’s scum. I️ think it’s weird that he never voted
Space - I️ need to reread. Nothing off the top of my head that comes off as scummy


Town
Faust- Seems to be genuinely scum hunting
Swan- Honestly slightly hard to not be basis. I️ feel like he’s acting similar to 105
IDPTG- majority of his arguments make sense

Did I get everyone? Again apologies I've been busy as of late.

A very convenient and totally incorrect reason to drop Teproc from scum to null.

I guess I can vote: Raptor. Awaclus would be fine too I suppose.

He knows this isn't happening. Why do people keep trying it?

Also if e's interpretation of the deadline is correct, that means I'll be sleeping through it, so it'd be nice to have people around now or in the next, like, two hours. Because I can't very well stop people from mislynching me if my vote is sitting on a random wagon people are not interested in.

I guess I'll go back to vote: e for now, I do think that's our best shot at hitting scum.

And the very next post. What did the Raptor vote accomplish again?

I think I would rather the vote: 2.718 over teproc. I will be around for the most part

And ta-da, the backtrack-bus is in full effect.



Still have no idea what people see in 2.7. But I do have an idea and agree with what people didn't see in LaLight. It might mean scum is leading me astray. It might mean me, the guy who really hates decisive voting, is being tricked into making the decisive vote that will probably get the wrong person lynched. My instincts have been against 2.7 since his very first postings, and what I learned from my time playing is that I should be trusting my instincts more. At the end of the day, I'm not afraid the game is lost with 2 mislynches, but the pressure does go up!

...or maybe it is Teproc and not 2.7 after all.

 

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)

noted. for the future: i missed datswan's vote because it was at the end of a line in the middle of a big post. to make it easier for me to find your votes, please put them ideally at the start of a line and at the start or end of a post.

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's L-2 for Teproc.

[Swowl]

Hmm it is dawning on me we should of done a “who is gonna be around at deadline” thing....
I could switch to E! I suppose but i don’t want to leave it hanging in the wind.

Deadline is in like 1.5 hours....

[Skumpy]

Hmm it is dawning on me we should of done a “who is gonna be around at deadline” thing....
I could switch to E! I suppose but i don’t want to leave it hanging in the wind.

Deadline is in like 1.5 hours....

I too can switch back to make a lynch happen, but I'm not going to spur it forwards. The Teproc/XX theory is leading for me, but I'm still not trusting of 2.7. At the very least, it would make me feel a lot better about my main idea.

It's Teproc 5, e 3 as it stands. I imagine what's going to end up happening is one of:

a) Andrew (or Awaclus) votes for Teproc. The end, nighty night
b) Awaclus magically shows up and votes 2.7 for some reason, and the vote goes back to 2.7 when no other change happens besides me and DatSwan, assumedly.
c) No lynch.
d) Can't we all just get along?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Alright I'll do the thing.

Vote: Teproc L-1

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Hmm it is dawning on me we should of done a “who is gonna be around at deadline” thing....
I could switch to E! I suppose but i don’t want to leave it hanging in the wind.

Deadline is in like 1.5 hours....

I too can switch back to make a lynch happen, but I'm not going to spur it forwards. The Teproc/XX theory is leading for me, but I'm still not trusting of 2.7. At the very least, it would make me feel a lot better about my main idea.

It's Teproc 5, e 3 as it stands. I imagine what's going to end up happening is one of:

a) Andrew (or Awaclus) votes for Teproc. The end, nighty night
b) Awaclus magically shows up and votes 2.7 for some reason, and the vote goes back to 2.7 when no other change happens besides me and DatSwan, assumedly.
c) No lynch.
d) Can't we all just get along?

I will switch if needed. But I too rather stay on E

PPE:1
 I don’t think it’s going to make a difference

[Skumpy]

The old back-2-back derphammer.

Classic.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

The old back-2-back derphammer.

Classic.

I didn’t hammer? Nor do I plan on it

[Skumpy]

The old back-2-back derphammer.

Classic.

I didn’t hammer? Nor do I plan on it

Not you.

@schadd: reminder of request to extend D3 deadline.

uh do u expect there to be a replacement on D3?

[Skumpy]

All human knowledge can be contained in these two words: Wait and Hope

[Skumpy]

All human knowledge can be contained in these two words: Wait and Hope

Turns out the line is 'wisdom', not 'knowledge'. I had one job.

[AndrewisFTTW]

What are you talking about? It's L-1 according to the last vote count.

[Swowl]

Think it’s hammer. Pretty sore i had an in counted vote but I’ll check

[Skumpy]

What are you talking about? It's L-1 according to the last vote count.

Then schadd has failed you

[AndrewisFTTW]

Last vote count he had two votes. E voted, Skumpy voted, I voted. That's 5. 6 needed yo lynch.

[Skumpy]

Andrew, I know it sucks to read my posts. But sometimes, they do contain vital information.

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)
So if I'm correct, it's Skumpy, Andrew, Raptor vs 2.7, & faust, gkrieg, DatSwan vs Teproc, with Space, IDPTG, Awaclus currently off and unlikely to be back (except maybe Awaclus, for whatever good that'll do)

Also, why did Raptor just peace on out of here? If he was also confused about the hammer, I would hope you stick around to make sure a lynch goes through.

[Swowl]

OK I have read to death and I am going with the EOD1 votes as a jumping off point:

Based on logic of self preservation, combined with the fact we were split wagon at the end of the day, I am assuming there was a mix of 2 skum on one wagon and 1 on the other (and then maybe the unvoter of course). Putting Skumpy aside for the moment that means for me at least that:

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32 - leaving Space, Awaclus, and GK

Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96 - leaving Faust, LL/Teproc, E!, IDPTG, and XXR (removed Andrew for previous mentioned self-preservation reasons. not saying off my list or whatever, just off this list).

That is (3) on Andrew [Space, Awaclus, and GK] and (5) on Dylan [Faust, LL/Teproc, E!, IDPTG, XXR]. I have to go with my reads, as it is all we have, and I am reading Faust as my one like clear clear town. So, from my perspective - feel free to apply yours as needed - that leaves the
(3) on Andrew -[Space, Awaclus, and GK]
and
(4) on Dylan [LL/Teproc, E!, IDPTG, XXR]
and of course
(1) Not voting [Skumpy]

Top three for me would be [LL/Teproc, E!, and Awaclus]. In that order. So for now I will sit with Vote: Teproc.

Also would like to mention that in my re read I am admitting I may have been overly defending of XXR. There is a potential skum there. I don't believe he is the best lynch today, please someone feel free to change my mind as I just want some input at this point, but I think between my listed 3 we are shooting 66%.

Also, then there is the Skumpster. Just saying it. Not saying skum read or anything, but the unvote just seems so overly cautious when it was obvious one of the 2 choices was going to get lynched.

This is me Voting for Teproc, then 10 posts later vote count has me as un voted. Day over.

[Swowl]

someone else want to double - hammer in the next 20 minutes just to be super sure?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Andrew, I know it sucks to read my posts. But sometimes, they do contain vital information.

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)
So if I'm correct, it's Skumpy, Andrew, Raptor vs 2.7, & faust, gkrieg, DatSwan vs Teproc, with Space, IDPTG, Awaclus currently off and unlikely to be back (except maybe Awaclus, for whatever good that'll do)

Also, why did Raptor just peace on out of here? If he was also confused about the hammer, I would hope you stick around to make sure a lynch goes through.

Well damn.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry people.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I blame schadd.

[AndrewisFTTW]

(please don't mod kill me)

[Swowl]

shit happens. let's just hope he flips over as skum and then you are pretty much absolved I guess in regards to this lol.

[Skumpy]

So....anybody got any Sunday plans?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Are we positive that he was hammered?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

So....anybody got any Sunday plans?

Work, you?

[schadd]

Vote count 2.6

SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (6*): faust, gkrieg13, DatSwan, 2.71828..., Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (2): Teproc, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1) : SpaceAnemone

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends sunday, november 19th at 00:00 forum time, in a few minutes

mod notes

• andrew has the option to rescind the hammer vote since i did the vote count erroneously. if he doesn't within uh 5 minutes it'll just count.
• note the first mod quote: please put votes where it's easy for me to find them!

mod quotes:

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)

noted. for the future: i missed datswan's vote because it was at the end of a line in the middle of a big post. to make it easier for me to find your votes, please put them ideally at the start of a line and at the start or end of a post.

@schadd: reminder of request to extend D3 deadline.

uh do u expect there to be a replacement on D3?

[schadd]

i'm probably gonna rake leaves and play one of two string instruments

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Vote count 2.6

SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (6*): faust, gkrieg13, DatSwan, 2.71828..., Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (4): Skumpy, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1) : SpaceAnemone

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends sunday, november 19th at 00:00 forum time, in a few minutes

mod notes

• andrew has the option to rescind the hammer vote since i did the vote count erroneously. if he doesn't within uh 5 minutes it'll just count.
• note the first mod quote: please put votes where it's easy for me to find them!

mod quotes:

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)

noted. for the future: i missed datswan's vote because it was at the end of a line in the middle of a big post. to make it easier for me to find your votes, please put them ideally at the start of a line and at the start or end of a post.

@schadd: reminder of request to extend D3 deadline.

uh do u expect there to be a replacement on D3?

Skumpy is counted in teproc and E

[AndrewisFTTW]

I don't think Teproc is even here to claim so whatever. Lynch ho!

[schadd]

ight. also the thing from two posts ago is fixed and thread locked

[schadd]

proast.

[schadd]

groast.

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/UyOg0mt2R2k?t=12s

babe, baby, baby i'm gonna leave you
i said baby, you know, i'm gonna leave you
i'm, leave you in the summer time
leave you when the summer comes rollin,
leave you when the summer comes along

Teproc has been lynched! he was mafia-aligned!

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/n6fBQRaygeo?t=1m2s

i didn't notice but it had got very dark and i was really, really outta my mind
just then a policeman stepped to me, asked us, said please, hey, would we care, to all get in line, get in line
they asked us to stay for tea, and have some fun, whoa-oh-oh
he said that his friends would all drop by, ooooh

night 2 starts now and ends tuesday, november 21 at 01:00 forum time.

[schadd]

i'm like literally home for thanksgiving and i forgot about thanksgiving

yea deadline extended d3 as well

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/PDIz4talyQk?t=2m7s

find a queen, without a king, they say she plays guitar and cries, and sings, la la la
ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn, tryna find a woman who's never, never never been born.

faust has been killed in the night! he was a N1 ascetic 3-shot tracker!

https://youtu.be/y8OtzJtp-EM?t=17s

we come from the land of the ice and snow from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow
hammer of the gods
we'll drive our ships to new lands
fight the horde, and sing and cry, valhalla i am coming

Xxraptorslayer96 has been killed in the night! he was a vanilla townie

thread not unlocked yet

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/lsZG7n7ries?t=9s

in the days of my youth i was told what it means to be a man
and now i've reached that age, i've tried to do all those things the best i can
no matter how i try, i find my way to the same old jam

Day 3 Starts!

Vote count 3.0

not voting (8): 2.71828..., Skumpy, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, gkrieg13, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 starts now and ends wednesday, november 29th at 01:00 forum time. thread unclenched.

mod notes

• deadline incremented by one day because americans are saying "thank u" to each other at some point

[Skumpy]

Vote: XX

That was my plan for the start of the day. Never mind now.


I had about 10 Skumpyisms I wanted to say in my first post, but in the interest of brevity, the one I eventually decided to go with was:

And c) If you're town, you just listed a subset of 4 out of 10 unknowns. Statistically, there is most likely a scum there. The last 4 people to post besides myself were you, faust, Lalight, and IDPTG. Guys, I found a scum! (The scary part is I don't know if I found 3 or 0)

***kind of... except the whole bit where mine is based on the logic of a Town player getting lynched and who was there to contribute to that vs yours which is based on birthday posts and nonsense...

How dare you, my methods are brilliant.

[Awaclus]

Vote: XX

That was my plan for the start of the day. Never mind now.

That's still a valid vote.

[Skumpy]

Well, we have a Vig AKA a Raptor Slayer Slayer with us (for better or for worse). Yes, I am assuming Raptor was the target, partially because the other direction doesn't make sense, partially because the joke doesn't really work otherwise.


So the PR situation:
Tracker, Jailkeeper/Rolecop are dead, there's a vig.

So we're up to 6, and scum has a roleblocker for sure.
In addition to vig, there might be a Neighborizer, there might be a Neopolitan/Doctor, but not both. And definitely no Motion Detector.

A lot more I should be addressing: my as-it-turned-out terrible team theory (high-fives to me!), what happened with the Teproc lynch, the possibilities of claiming now, and many more! But I'll be busy the next couple hours, I'll try to get back to this in a bit.

[Swowl]

Does anyone have a theory to use this info to our advantage? Based on the info presented to us I’m having trouble coming up with a plan. Any chance of two ICs in the hizouse?

[Swowl]

Actually wait prob don’t answer that. Fuck i need time to look back

[AndrewisFTTW]

Does anyone have a theory to use this info to our advantage? Based on the info presented to us I’m having trouble coming up with a plan. Any chance of two ICs in the hizouse?

Huh? What are you talking about? What plan? Where are you getting ICs from?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: DatSwan

I'm gonna reread later but that whole thing from DatSwan doesn't really seem genuine to me.

[Skumpy]

OK, time for me to spill some guts:

1. Still haven't mislynched faust yet. That day will come all the same. But not today.

2. I was gonna suggest that neighbors should definitely claim if they exist, but scum could easily fakeclaim 2 neighbors if they want/can (Remember, scum now knows exactly what roles are in play). It's probably still a good idea to claim, though it'll be a bad look if someone didn't neighborize their first pick. Speaking of which:

3. The faust kill. Space is right in #800, claiming (probably) turned out to be a really dumb idea, all it did was ignite a neon sign above faust's porch saying "Please murder me" (there's really no doubt in my mind at this point that faust was the NK). At the very least, everybody wanting to neighborize the same goddang person was not smart.

4. The other 2 roles. There's definitely a vigilante. There might be a Doc/Neo. If they claimed, scum could counter it if they wanted, but I don't see what they gain from it. There's still a roleblocker on the prowl if we don't lynch scum today, and claiming sets up PRs as easy targets. On the other hand, scum probably has a rolecop and they already know a bunch of roles. So I'm not sure what to do here either.

I was gonna look at the wagon yesterday and talk my head off about a lot of other things, but I'm too tired now. Yeah, not a good N2.

[2.71828.....]

I am also kind of confused why people aren't going after me more.  At first I was genuinely busy, then I fell behind, etc.  Then I had an idea to just kind of hide in the shadows and see if scum would go after me. 

But enough of that.  reread time

vote: e

Haha

[IDontPlayThisGame]

There's still a roleblocker on the prowl if we don't lynch scum today, and claiming sets up PRs as easy targets. On the other hand, scum probably has a rolecop and they already know a bunch of roles.

There's still a Roleblocker even if we lynch scum today. The only way to stop scum from having a PR is to lynch all of them.

Does anyone have a theory to use this info to our advantage? Based on the info presented to us I’m having trouble coming up with a plan. Any chance of two ICs in the hizouse?

Huh? What are you talking about? What plan? Where are you getting ICs from?

Probably from the Neighborizer, but scum knows if that's a safe fake claim at this point so there's no reason for them to come forward yet. The Vig is an IC though.

Scum knows the last PR in the game, so that's not great.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Uh nobody is an IC because nobody is confirmed town. I don't think you guys know what IC means.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I am also kind of confused why people aren't going after me more.  At first I was genuinely busy, then I fell behind, etc.  Then I had an idea to just kind of hide in the shadows and see if scum would go after me. 

But enough of that.  reread time

vote: e

Haha

Doesn't mean you're town.

[Skumpy]

There's still a roleblocker on the prowl if we don't lynch scum today, and claiming sets up PRs as easy targets. On the other hand, scum probably has a rolecop and they already know a bunch of roles.

There's still a Roleblocker even if we lynch scum today. The only way to stop scum from having a PR is to lynch all of them.

I'm assuming 1 scum couldn't kill and RB different people. Although even if they can't, I'm realizing now that it actually does make a difference if they go for the vig since they don't get another shot off.

Scum knows the last PR in the game, so that's not great.

Scumslip? Or last-PR slip? Because we don't know if there's a 'last PR'. I'm inches/centimetres away from voting this, but I'll abstain just because my last idea worked so well and there's a lot more to be learned and wagon looking to be done yet. But I'm close.

More about claiming:
If a Neapolitan has a result on somebody alive, I'm thinking they should claim. If they're town, they either confirm someone as innocent or catch a non-VT who either is the vig and confirms themselves as vig or has to either fakeclaim vig or challenge the Neapolitan, getting us to a lynch pool of two. Problem is if there is no neapolitan and scum chooses to fakeclaim it, it's safe since there're a lot of VTs left. Or they could defend their partner.

Same goes for neighbors. Yes, it could be fakeclaimed if they don't exist. But getting 2 people confirmed on the same side is a nice boon.

Still not sure about the vigilante. A confirmed town is good, but they become useless as long as scum has a roleblocker.

Much to do, so much time before next Wednesday to do it.

[2.71828.....]

I am also kind of confused why people aren't going after me more.  At first I was genuinely busy, then I fell behind, etc.  Then I had an idea to just kind of hide in the shadows and see if scum would go after me. 

But enough of that.  reread time

vote: e

Haha

Doesn't mean you're town.

Yeah, but it doesn't hurt that teproc subbed in and immediately went after me. I was a good lynch target

[2.71828.....]

If scum had day chat it would be different.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

There's still a roleblocker on the prowl if we don't lynch scum today, and claiming sets up PRs as easy targets. On the other hand, scum probably has a rolecop and they already know a bunch of roles.

There's still a Roleblocker even if we lynch scum today. The only way to stop scum from having a PR is to lynch all of them.

I'm assuming 1 scum couldn't kill and RB different people. Although even if they can't, I'm realizing now that it actually does make a difference if they go for the vig since they don't get another shot off.

-each mafia member can only use one factional ability, unless there are more abilities than mafia members alive.

Scum knows the last PR in the game, so that's not great.

Scumslip? Or last-PR slip? Because we don't know if there's a 'last PR'. I'm inches/centimetres away from voting this, but I'll abstain just because my last idea worked so well and there's a lot more to be learned and wagon looking to be done yet. But I'm close.

I didn't say "town knows". Scum knows whether the last PR is: none, Neighborizer, or Doctor/Neapolitan.

If a Neapolitan has a result on somebody alive, I'm thinking they should claim. If they're town, they either confirm someone as innocent or catch a non-VT who either is the vig and confirms themselves as vig or has to either fakeclaim vig or challenge the Neapolitan, getting us to a lynch pool of two. Problem is if there is no neapolitan and scum chooses to fakeclaim it, it's safe since there're a lot of VTs left. Or they could defend their partner.

Same goes for neighbors. Yes, it could be fakeclaimed if they don't exist. But getting 2 people confirmed on the same side is a nice boon.

Still not sure about the vigilante. A confirmed town is good, but they become useless as long as scum has a roleblocker.

Much to do, so much time before next Wednesday to do it.

I don't think we're in a spot to have anyone claim for the sake of claiming. At least scum can only fakeclaim safely if there are no remaining town PRs. And as the last thing I'll say on PR claiming, a confirmed Vig isn't useless as long as scum has a Roleblocker. A confirmed Vig is dead as long as we don't have a Doctor, which we won't have N4.

PPE 2: e

[gkrieg13]

I'm glad I was right about Teproc!  But sad that we didn't get anything from faust before he died.

Going to get to this to find the partners later.

[gkrieg13]

I think at this point, town knows that there isn't a neighborizer.  Because if there were one, I think they and their target would've already claimed so that they don't claim at LYLO.

[gkrieg13]

vig is absolutely IC, but they don't want to claim yet. 

[Swowl]

Does anyone have a theory to use this info to our advantage? Based on the info presented to us I’m having trouble coming up with a plan. Any chance of two ICs in the hizouse?

Huh? What are you talking about? What plan? Where are you getting ICs from?

... yeah while you are re reading re read the set up andrew.... Neighborizor = 2 ICs...

[Swowl]

Vote: DatSwan

I'm gonna reread later but that whole thing from DatSwan doesn't really seem genuine to me.

please explain how that doesn't seem genuine? saying "well this sucks, how to do go from here?" isn't a genuine town perspective? Are you saying you think it is pro town to not try to come up with a plan to hunt skum?

[Swowl]

Does anyone have a theory to use this info to our advantage? Based on the info presented to us I’m having trouble coming up with a plan. Any chance of two ICs in the hizouse?

Huh? What are you talking about? What plan? Where are you getting ICs from?

... yeah while you are re reading re read the set up andrew.... Neighborizor = 2 ICs...

In fairness, disregard this. I see the point about how with no other claimed roles Neighborizor could be a fake claim so it is not IC.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: DatSwan

I'm gonna reread later but that whole thing from DatSwan doesn't really seem genuine to me.

please explain how that doesn't seem genuine? saying "well this sucks, how to do go from here?" isn't a genuine town perspective? Are you saying you think it is pro town to not try to come up with a plan to hunt skum?

No Awaclus that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that is something I'd expect scum to say after last night. But I'm also saying I need to reread interactions and such for a proper case.

[Swowl]

Vote: DatSwan

I'm gonna reread later but that whole thing from DatSwan doesn't really seem genuine to me.

please explain how that doesn't seem genuine? saying "well this sucks, how to do go from here?" isn't a genuine town perspective? Are you saying you think it is pro town to not try to come up with a plan to hunt skum?

No Awaclus that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that is something I'd expect scum to say after last night. But I'm also saying I need to reread interactions and such for a proper case.

I just find it odd that out of all the seemingly pointless one liners, that everyone inevitably opens the day with - I am the only one you chose to call out.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Andrew

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: Andrew

Good. Now disappear for the rest of day and don't change your vote just like you've been doing.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: Andrew

Good. Now disappear for the rest of day and don't change your vote just like you've been doing.

Vote: Awaclus

[Swowl]

Final Count Day 1:

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32 (Town)
Dylan32 (7): AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame faust (Town), Galzria (Town), Xxraptorslayer96 (Town), LaLight/Teproc (Skum)
not voting (1): Skumpy


Final Count Day 2:

SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (6): gkrieg13, DatSwan, 2.71828..., Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW, Faust (Town)
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (2): Teproc (Skum), Xxraptorslayer96 (Town)
not voting (1) : SpaceAnemone


1) Only three remaining people to be on the train not lynching Town or lynching Skum have been GK, Skumpy and myself.
2) Awaclus was off of Dylan and off for Teproc (on Andrew)
3) Space was off of Dylan and off of Teproc (no vote)
4) Andrew was on Dylan (self preservation) and on Teproc.
5) E! was on Dylan and on Teproc
6) IDPTG was on Dylan and off of Teproc

D1 lynch is going to, most of the time at least, have both Skum and Town on the wagon. There is currently 1 confirmed Skum on that wagon already - Teproc. The other alive players on that wagon consist of Andrew, E!, and IDPTG.
Since we do not know at this point if Andrew is Skum or Town, we cannot gain much simply based on this. I suppose numbers would suggest that if Andrew is Skum then the last Skum probably would not also be on the Dylan Wagon. If Andrew is Town, then we really know nothing because they would just be sitting there happy with either lynch.

D2 lynch helps us put some more pieces together. My thought process by player here is that if you were Skum and on the D1 mis-lynch, you probably would want to make sure you were off the mis-lynch D2, or on the Bus, if one presented itself. This would bring to light two individuals - E! and IDPTG.

I am torn at this point. On one hand, I give E! some credit for being on Teproc yesterday because it was similar to Andrew on Day 1 (self preservation), but also the back and forth between him and Teproc would be fantastically constructed if they were both Skum.
Whereas with IDPTG, he kind of just parked his vote on Space, which isn't bad as we don't know their alignment at this point, but also follows the same logic in a way.

In the end I think my lynch pool going into today consists of E!, Andrew, Skumpy, IDPTG (in that order).

E!- Vote counts plus the aforementioned perfectness of the Teproc vs E! bits on D2

Andrew - Mainly because if he is Skum it all just makes perfect sense from a Vote Count perspective. Also, from my perspective, since I know I am Town, it really appears like he is trying to create random cases for me at every available point. Also, yesterdays hammer, while I could believe to be an accident given the circumstances, was quite odd.

Skumpy - Pulling off the vote on D1 is weird. Not really skummy and not really not, just weird. What was skummy was the last minute switch on D2. I mean he made a case for it and all, which is actually moderately believeable, but in the end if it is Skum!Skumpy (lol) he would be sure to be on that bus I think.

IDPTG - Pretty much just on the list because of Vote Counts. I would have to have someone make a pretty solid case over the 3 others for him to be an option today, but in the spirit of sticking to the theme of my re read, he belongs on the list.

It should also be mentioned that if my logic follows, and either Skumpy, IDPTG, or E! do ever flip as Skum, I think that it is very likely that we find the last Skum among them.

For now I will...

Vote: E!

(sorry about placement last time, don't want to make that mistake again)
PPE1

[Swowl]

Also, upon my read through I went back looking at things under the knowledge that Faust was tracker and most likely had a result from N1. What I found was that he most likely Tracked LL N1, got the results he got, and then acted accordingly. However, I also think there may be more to find so if anyone else wants to take a crack at it please share.

[Skumpy]

Sorry, don't have time to delve into this now. I'll post something with more gusto in the next day or so. In the meantime, I can respond to more accusations, my favorite part of mafia.

Skumpy - Pulling off the vote on D1 is weird. Not really skummy and not really not, just weird. What was skummy was the last minute switch on D2. I mean he made a case for it and all, which is actually moderately believeable, but in the end if it is Skum!Skumpy (lol) he would be sure to be on that bus I think.

There are some questionable beliefs in this post (which I only skimmed; again, don't have time to disect this piece by piece now). But why you lumped me and gkrieg into the same category of not voting Dylan and voting Teproc, then put me in a lynchpool and not him, I don't know.

"Pulling off D1 vote is weird": People keep going after me for not voting when I was taking my time to decide who I'd rather lynch. I get that my name sticks out like a sore thumb on those votecounts, but there's seriously nothing to see there, please move along.

"Last minute switch": The vote was 4-4. I switch onto scum, basically forcing the lynch to go that way. Skummy Skumpy probably would love to be on that bus, you're right...but Skummy Skumpy would be driving it allllll night long.       

"a case for it and all, which is actually moderately believeable": I cannot begin to tell you how much this makes me want to strangle you (which franky is physically impossible, I understand, but I can dream). If I made a case that was 'actually moderately believable', I have no idea how you choose to trust me the rest of the time.

"Skum!Skumpy (lol): I have many self-given nicknames. You'll all figure out your favorites at some point.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Andrew

[SpaceAnemone]

I missed the last deadline due to timezone/thinking we maybe had 24 hours more. Now I'm struggling for time, but I should get an hour or so later on for f.dsing, so please nobody prod me just yet...

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: e

For now.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Teproc "reads"

Space (3): gkrieg, Swan, ANdrew
Andrew (3): IDPTG, Space, Skumpy
LL (2): Galz, Dylan
Dylan (2): faust, LL
faust (2): Raptor, Awaclus
IDPTG (1): e

Seems pretty safe to bet at least one scum has 2 votes on them.

Is there any reason for this assumption other than basic probability?

Most of it is the basic probability yes (though I have no idea what it actually is, if Space wants to have fun with that), but also what the game felt like rereading it. It fels like there was a certain tension: I think the game would have felt completely dead if all wagons were on town. Harder to tell rereading of course.

Re: e, I think I'm pretty good at reading e, and he usually gives me towntells, especially lately. You'll recall that I had a pretty strong town read on him all game in M108, and here he is giving me nothing. Even on day 2, he just basically feels like he's done nothing this game, and I think that's more of a scum!e trait. Town!e, even if he's not active, is impactful when he posts. He just hasn't been here.

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

vote: Swan

In other news, ANdrew, Skumpy and Space are town. Raptor and Awaclus are complete cyphers, faust is somewhere between scummy and null, gkrieg is kinda townie.

Who am I missing ? Right, IDPTG. Townie, I think, but not overly so.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Looking kinda towny for gkrieg.

I think LaLight was way scummier than e.

Definitely leaving my vote on Teproc.

DatSwan can you quote the interactions between Teproc and e you were talking about? I couldn't find them while skimming.

[SpaceAnemone]

assuming 1 scum couldn't kill and RB different people. Although even if they can't, I'm realizing now that it actually does make a difference if they go for the vig since they don't get another shot off.

Scum knows the last PR in the game, so that's not great.

Scumslip? Or last-PR slip? Because we don't know if there's a 'last PR'.

I kind of like this level of scum-hunting from Skumpy. Though it is actually more likely that we do have an additional PR than that we don't, looking at the numbers.

[Swowl]

So all in all it was just more of a thought regarding that he came into the game probably pretty certain he was a high priority lynch target. He kind of breadcrumbs "E! is skum" around here and there without ever really pushing him until the heat is on him. I think this would be a good plan if they were skum partners. Sounds like a read I suppose, but here are just some examples:

I'm not scumreading e for being inactive. I'm scumreading him for not being impactful.

-Pointing out he is skum reading E!. If E! is skum it will make him look good on re reads-

Re: e, I think I'm pretty good at reading e, and he usually gives me towntells, especially lately. You'll recall that I had a pretty strong town read on him all game in M108, and here he is giving me nothing. Even on day 2, he just basically feels like he's done nothing this game, and I think that's more of a scum!e trait. Town!e, even if he's not active, is impactful when he posts. He just hasn't been here.

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

- Saying he thinks E! is skum again, but then ultimately voting for me instead. -

- #712 is his huge opening post, in which he clarifies he thinks E! is the skummiest. Next post finishes the re read and then he changes that to E! second, and me skummiest -


TBH I still need to look deeper into the D1 LL/E! interactions to see if the merit holds up, but most content came from Teproc so I looked at D2 first. But there you go. Not a lot, there are some more one liners in there somewhere, but this is the jist of what I was talking about.

[Swowl]

assuming 1 scum couldn't kill and RB different people. Although even if they can't, I'm realizing now that it actually does make a difference if they go for the vig since they don't get another shot off.

Scum knows the last PR in the game, so that's not great.

Scumslip? Or last-PR slip? Because we don't know if there's a 'last PR'.

I kind of like this level of scum-hunting from Skumpy. Though it is actually more likely that we do have an additional PR than that we don't, looking at the numbers.

So just saying, and if I am disagreed with here please feel free to correct me, but I think the value of us keeping our PRs unknown at this point outweighs knowing which PRs Skum has in their possession. Since RB is the active one that we want to be aware of and we already know it exists, we probably should deter from pointing anything out regarding our Town PRs until we absolutely have to.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

vote: Andrew for now. More on this later.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Thanks DatSwan. And I think him saying you're the scummiest person in the game means there's a good chance your town. What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

[AndrewisFTTW]

vote: Andrew

How about some thoughts/reads/general scumhunting Teproc-related stuff?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

Not really sure. I think reads lists from scum are more WIFOM than anything and that's not a rabbit hole I feel like jumping down.

[SpaceAnemone]

Wagon analysis thoughts -- to help complement my other reads, rather than to replace them exactly. I hope this doesn't confuse people, but I'm just going to use current player names, even when talking about things that subbed-out players actually did. (My vote tracker makes this invisible to me).

2.71828.....: Boring D1 without being on a multi-person wagon till moving to Dylan right at the end. Spends most of D2 on Awaclus before moving to the Teproc wagon in 4th position.

Skumpy: Moves around a bit D1, but no big wagons till joining Andrew. Then shfts to Dylan before doing that annoying unvoting thing right before deadline, and ends the day not voting. Comfortably on Raptor for most of D2, before moving to Teproc in 5th place.

DatSwan: Spends a while not voting in D1, and then is one of the three on my wagon. Though he's also the first to leave and shifts to Dylan briefly before settling into Andrew. On Teprod early D2 behind faust, but switches to Awaclus for a little while before erjoining teh Teproc wagon behind gkrieg (3rd place overall).

AndrewisFTTW: Joins faust's town-on-town Dylan wagon, and is followed by Teproc (LL) till Andrew unvotes. Joins in 3rd place on my wagon, then spends time on Swan before ending up on the Dylan mislynch, presumably in self-preservation. There's a fair bit of time in D2 when my wagon consists of just Teproc and Andrew, which actually makes Andrew look a little more townie, since it seems less likely for two scum to sit on one town player like that. Towards the end of D2, Andrew is again right behind Teproc on a wagon, this time on e. I'm reasonably confident that that's a pretty unlikely pattern for Andrew to be scum.

gkrieg13: spends a lot of D1 at the head of my wagon, before finally joining the Andrew wagon, where he stays till the end of the day. Joins the Teproc wagon in 3rd place, and stays there for most of D2 in second place after Raptor moves away. I feel like that could be a really comfy spot for a bus, especially combined with the boring voting the rest of the time.

Awaclus: His D1 consists of Andrew, faust, and Andrew again, and his D2 is just Andrew.

IDontPlayThisGame: Raptor, Swan, Andrew, More Raptor, and then finally the Dylan mislynch D1. Spent the latter parts of D2 voting for me. I'm not feeling like his patterns are particularly scummy, though, especially since Teproc was already voting for me when he joined.

From that stuff, I think IDP and Andrew (and maybe even Skumpy) are less likely to be scum than I might have thought before, and I also think that I should pay closer attention to gkrieg, e and Swan. Awaclus is just doing his own thing as normal.

[AndrewisFTTW]

What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

Not really sure. I think reads lists from scum are more WIFOM than anything and that's not a rabbit hole I feel like jumping down.

I'm not talking about just his reads. What about the way he talks about e?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

Not really sure. I think reads lists from scum are more WIFOM than anything and that's not a rabbit hole I feel like jumping down.

I'm not talking about just his reads. What about the way he talks about e?

What, the bit where he explains his read of e?

[AndrewisFTTW]

What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

Not really sure. I think reads lists from scum are more WIFOM than anything and that's not a rabbit hole I feel like jumping down.

I'm not talking about just his reads. What about the way he talks about e?

What, the bit where he explains his read of e?

Yeah, I guess there isn't much there but I don't think we should totally dismiss it as WIFOM.

[Swowl]

From that stuff, I think IDP and Andrew (and maybe even Skumpy) are less likely to be scum than I might have thought before, and I also think that I should pay closer attention to gkrieg, e and Swan. Awaclus is just doing his own thing as normal.

So not saying now, actually asking this question, at what point in the game do we start caring about the fact that Awaclus doesn't like... talk at all? I don't want to question play style everyone is entitled to their own, but does he normally spark up in late game, or does he kinda just do this vote-n-leave thing the whole time?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

Not really sure. I think reads lists from scum are more WIFOM than anything and that's not a rabbit hole I feel like jumping down.

I'm not talking about just his reads. What about the way he talks about e?

What, the bit where he explains his read of e?

Yeah, I guess there isn't much there but I don't think we should totally dismiss it as WIFOM.

People usually put time into their reads lists so one from scum is (probably) going to be crafted carefully and not draw suspicion because of it. In this case, Teproc would have had time to come up with one and weigh his options. Any read on a scumbuddy has to be WIFOM. Since he won't tell the truth in every read, some of the reads on town must be false so we have to decide which ones are true and which aren't. This is different than town's reads lists because, barring PRs, town doesn't know everyone's alignment and the lists are based on suspicion and theory instead of fact.

PPE: I think this is standard Awaclus. Whether it's town or scum I'm not sure, but it definitely fits my experiences with Awaclus.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What do you think of those Teproc quotes IDPTG?

Not really sure. I think reads lists from scum are more WIFOM than anything and that's not a rabbit hole I feel like jumping down.

I'm not talking about just his reads. What about the way he talks about e?

What, the bit where he explains his read of e?

Yeah, I guess there isn't much there but I don't think we should totally dismiss it as WIFOM.

People usually put time into their reads lists so one from scum is (probably) going to be crafted carefully and not draw suspicion because of it. In this case, Teproc would have had time to come up with one and weigh his options. Any read on a scumbuddy has to be WIFOM. Since he won't tell the truth in every read, some of the reads on town must be false so we have to decide which ones are true and which aren't. This is different than town's reads lists because, barring PRs, town doesn't know everyone's alignment and the lists are based on suspicion and theory instead of fact.

PPE: I think this is standard Awaclus. Whether it's town or scum I'm not sure, but it definitely fits my experiences with Awaclus.

Just realized I forgot my conclusion, which is: scum's reads lists must be examined differently in a manner which I consider to be WIFOM analysis based and therefore, as I said earlier, it's not something I'm willing to entertain at this time.

[SpaceAnemone]

From that stuff, I think IDP and Andrew (and maybe even Skumpy) are less likely to be scum than I might have thought before, and I also think that I should pay closer attention to gkrieg, e and Swan. Awaclus is just doing his own thing as normal.

So not saying now, actually asking this question, at what point in the game do we start caring about the fact that Awaclus doesn't like... talk at all? I don't want to question play style everyone is entitled to their own, but does he normally spark up in late game, or does he kinda just do this vote-n-leave thing the whole time?

My conclusion on Awaclus was that there's little I can tell, but that's normal.

What do you make of my other conclusions?

[Swowl]

From that stuff, I think IDP and Andrew (and maybe even Skumpy) are less likely to be scum than I might have thought before, and I also think that I should pay closer attention to gkrieg, e and Swan. Awaclus is just doing his own thing as normal.

So not saying now, actually asking this question, at what point in the game do we start caring about the fact that Awaclus doesn't like... talk at all? I don't want to question play style everyone is entitled to their own, but does he normally spark up in late game, or does he kinda just do this vote-n-leave thing the whole time?

My conclusion on Awaclus was that there's little I can tell, but that's normal.

What do you make of my other conclusions?

Fair enough.

I think:

2.71828.....: Boring D1 without being on a multi-person wagon till moving to Dylan right at the end. Spends most of D2 on Awaclus before moving to the Teproc wagon in 4th position. - This is more relevant to me than it seems to be to you. I findthe timing of switches combined with lack of content to by skummy.


Skumpy: Moves around a bit D1, but no big wagons till joining Andrew. Then shfts to Dylan before doing that annoying unvoting thing right before deadline, and ends the day not voting. Comfortably on Raptor for most of D2, before moving to Teproc in 5th place. Again, fishy move on the end.. or not fishy idk really. He did state several times that he found LL or Teproc skummy (or at least ish), so upon realizing XXR wasn't going to happen switching at end of day could be either skum bus or pro town play. The unvoting is as you put it imo... weird. I do not have enough experience to know what that means exactly. If we are 17 to start, 1 unvote means we could theoretically go 8-8 for a no lynch, but to say he thought that would happen at that point in the game is kind of a long shot... I mean I thought it was a long shot when I tried for it in our last game together, and that was like D3 or D4 or something lol

DatSwan: Spends a while not voting in D1, and then is one of the three on my wagon. Though he's also the first to leave and shifts to Dylan briefly before settling into Andrew. On Teprod early D2 behind faust, but switches to Awaclus for a little while before erjoining teh Teproc wagon behind gkrieg (3rd place overall).
- Obv I am bias, but I think I have been playing a fairly good game so far and reading things quite well. I have stated that I do not like starting early D1 wagons, which is why I just did the rando RVS vote right out the gate and then shut it off when the wagon even pre-started to be a thing. I also think that it is.. just being honest, a little odd that someone so keen on number based solutions such as yourself did not feel the need to point out that I have 100% successfully defended Dylan (town), pushed to lynch LL/Teproc (skum), and wildly defended XXR (town). I just don't see why skum!me would defend such an easy mis lynch on XXR.

AndrewisFTTW: Joins faust's town-on-town Dylan wagon, and is followed by Teproc (LL) till Andrew unvotes. Joins in 3rd place on my wagon, then spends time on Swan before ending up on the Dylan mislynch, presumably in self-preservation. There's a fair bit of time in D2 when my wagon consists of just Teproc and Andrew, which actually makes Andrew look a little more townie, since it seems less likely for two scum to sit on one town player like that. Towards the end of D2, Andrew is again right behind Teproc on a wagon, this time on e. I'm reasonably confident that that's a pretty unlikely pattern for Andrew to be scum.
- IDK honestly. I had not considered prior to reading this that D2 would argue quite heavily in a Town!Andrew. D1 jumping around is... idk. I didn't really like his case for me, which came off as weird, but I also openly admitted D1 to pretty much being on him because I thought he was the better pick between him and Dylan and I didn't think there was a good case at all for Dylan. I also think that Teproc following him D1 paints skum a little, but then it is somewhat negated by the following day with your wagon.

gkrieg13: spends a lot of D1 at the head of my wagon, before finally joining the Andrew wagon, where he stays till the end of the day. Joins the Teproc wagon in 3rd place, and stays there for most of D2 in second place after Raptor moves away. I feel like that could be a really comfy spot for a bus, especially combined with the boring voting the rest of the time.
- I am going to say this completely aware of the fact that our voting actions are extremely similar... but this is like exactly the line I would take as skum if both Andrew and Dylan were town and I knew Teproc/LL was my skumbuddy.

Awaclus: His D1 consists of Andrew, faust, and Andrew again, and his D2 is just Andrew.
- I have absolutely no idea what to make of this player. Off the radar like the whole game, which normally I read as a little skummy, but as it has been mentioned to me, this is just kind of how he plays.

IDontPlayThisGame: Raptor, Swan, Andrew, More Raptor, and then finally the Dylan mislynch D1. Spent the latter parts of D2 voting for me. I'm not feeling like his patterns are particularly scummy, though, especially since Teproc was already voting for me when he joined.
- Vote movements are weird, but personal reads/gut feeling tells me he is town at this point. Pretty much removed from my lynch pool at the time being unless a insanely solid case is made by someone.


From that stuff, I think IDP and Andrew (and maybe even Skumpy) are less likely to be scum than I might have thought before, and I also think that I should pay closer attention to gkrieg, e and Swan. Awaclus is just doing his own thing as normal.
- IDPTG seems town to me. Andrew is starting to lean townier to me. Skumpy is the lowest of the three, but getting townier as we proceed. I believe E! is our best bet at this point to find skum. GK and you are like my current line of "split" in regards to town or skum thoughts. Please pay more attention to me so I can attempt to clear myself! And as for Awaclus.. this may be a game flaw of mine, as I understand this is not a LAL site, but my personal bias is going to eventually lead me to consider him more and more for lynches because if he is town we may honestly gain more info from lynching him than he provides in the game.

[Skumpy]

Skumpy: Moves around a bit D1, but no big wagons till joining Andrew. Then shfts to Dylan before doing that annoying unvoting thing right before deadline, and ends the day not voting. Comfortably on Raptor for most of D2, before moving to Teproc in 5th place. Again, fishy move on the end.. or not fishy idk really. He did state several times that he found LL or Teproc skummy (or at least ish), so upon realizing XXR wasn't going to happen switching at end of day could be either skum bus or pro town play. The unvoting is as you put it imo... weird. I do not have enough experience to know what that means exactly. If we are 17 to start, 1 unvote means we could theoretically go 8-8 for a no lynch, but to say he thought that would happen at that point in the game is kind of a long shot... I mean I thought it was a long shot when I tried for it in our last game together, and that was like D3 or D4 or something lol

I'm really just at a loss for words when you two keep criticizing and speculating about my unvote. I unvoted because I wanted to make my time and make a more calculated decision. The End. That's it. Stop. And the D2 isn't complete, it neglects my voting for e, and switching from one big wagon to the other.

Vote right now would go for e, I don't think 2 wagons both on scum yesterday is a crazy conjecture. Teproc and e vote for each for self-preservation (also, the only thing about the e vote that can be read as town or scum is the timing; the vote was forced), and maybe last scum is conveniently away or else already bussing Teproc hoping an alternate wagon pops up.

This idea was much more rushed and poorly thought out than most other things I say.  I still haven't had a good chance to sit down and digest everything throughly. I promise that will happen soon. I'd also like to play my elimination game at some point to start narrowing down the 21 potential solutions available.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

@DatSwan- lynching Awaclus for his playstyle isn't going to do anything to change the way he plays. What you think we can learn from lynching him today?

[Swowl]

@DatSwan- lynching Awaclus for his playstyle isn't going to do anything to change the way he plays. What you think we can learn from lynching him today?

Don’t want to lynch him today. Also, don’t want/care to change his play style. Sorry probably could of made that more clear before. All this For pretty much the exact reason that we wouldn’t learn much at this point.

However, the notion should be at least observed that there is a certain amount of poetic defense as skum in not being active if you know the general mindset will be not to be targeted for lynches due to lack of info gained.

[schadd]

Vote count 3.1

AndrewisFTTW (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame
Awaclus (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

not voting (2) : Skumpy, SpaceAnemone

with 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 ends wednesday, november 29th at 01:00 forum time.

mod notes

• happy tom hanksgiving

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote count 3.1

AndrewisFTTW (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame
Awaclus (1): 2.71828...
2.71828... (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

not voting (2) : Skumpy, SpaceAnemone

with 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 ends wednesday, november 29th at 01:00 forum time.

mod notes

• happy tom hanksgiving

This game got sloooow.

Vote: gkrieg

I'm aware there's a US holiday and stuff, mainly becuase "Black Friday" has become a horrible crass sale thing over here in the past couple of years even though we don't celebrate thanksgiving at all. But that means you're all away from work and stuff, right? Lots of posting time? :-)

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'm aware there's a US holiday and stuff, mainly becuase "Black Friday" has become a horrible crass sale thing over here in the past couple of years even though we don't celebrate thanksgiving at all. But that means you're all away from work and stuff, right? Lots of posting time? :-)

False. I had to work a double shift with another one coming up soon because of the holiday.

[Skumpy]

First off: Awaclus. I don't know what to do. I have absolutely no idea on how to read him, his game style doesn't give anything away. And I can't keep putting him on the lynch-another-day list since we only have 1, maybe 2, mislynches of comfort room left. Does asking him to make reads on everybody accomplish anything, or does it generate an Awaclusian response?

The Teproc vote:

Awaclus, Space, IDPTG were all away and didn't weigh in. Space was defending LL, one of two (Andrew) who was doing so as late as midway through day 2. But even that wasn't a forceful townread. IDPTG had no interactions that I can see with LL/Teproc on day 2, besides agreeing on an early XX lynch. Not even gonna bother reading Awaclus, I'm sure I'll find nothing

As much as I can see a narrative for 2 of those first 3 to be scum...bussing LL/Teproc seems like a juicy opportunity to bus for at least 1 scum. gkrieg, DatSwan, 2.7, and Andrew all ended up voting Teproc.

gkrieg: It was an early bus D2 that didn't waver much. Looks nice on paper, but then again... Said he found Teproc much scummier than 2.7; even after the flip, I don't see how they differed that much. Also, gkrieg, you never did tell us why you think Andrew is scum. I would like to know now.

DatSwan: Votes LL quicklyish, then moves to Awaclus. Not the towniest of looks after Teproc flips. Also worth keeping in mind this was Teproc's scummiest player after the reread. But the timing of the vote for Teproc happens when it's Awaclus 2, Teproc 2, e 1. There's no indication before this point that Teproc was the likeliest lynch, I know I was willing to contribute to an Awaclus lynch. ScumSwan has a solid case against Awaclus, I don't see motivation for him to switch, because that vote looked like it would solidify the lynch as Teproc, until it didn't after the e wagon built. Could be designed to give him a lot of towncred for getting a scummy scum lynched. This is a hard game.

2.7: Nothing to be said about voting for Teproc, that's forced. Interesting part is the timing...took a while before he did, also was after the ever-scummy Awaclus before. Teproc acknowledges him as scum, but still passes over him in favor of voting DatSwan. If 2.7 is scum, that means there were twin correct wagons at the end of D2, with possibly gkrieg or DatSwan bussing Teproc before the second wagon exploded. Otherwise, it was just 1 correct lynch that scum was either powerless to prevent or else was OK with it happening.

Andrew: There's been a lot of interactions of interest: with IDPTG, with DatSwan, with Awaclus...and not really with Teproc. If he's scum, he takes advantage of my push for 2.7, hoping DatSwan will flip before he has to. If the team is 2.7/Andrew, I guess the motivation is a no lynch, but I never like assuming scum is trying to force a no lynch, so I think that's a team I can feel comfortable discounting for now. But I flip to Teproc, and regardless of whether he knew he was hammering or not, my flip is the one that tells him it looks back if he doesn't contribute to a lynch. I'm trying to leave reads out of it, but he was the only one to pounce on my Space accusation...which does concern me somewhat. Still, if scum plans on bussing a teammate to slip by for longer, this is not the unsuspicious, incognito way to do it. I think that's a good sign?


Conclusion: Last 2 scum are ?? and ?? I'm hoping I'll make a better insight at some point, but that point is not now. I don't know, maybe it's that time is harder for me to find now than my first game, but I just can't seem to focus this game. Probably because I'm putting off my being wrong for as long as humanly possible.

I suppose my top 2 picks at this point are gkrieg and 2.7. Partially the above, partially I just want to believe in #106. I'll get out of the "Not Voting" box with
 Vote: 2.7 I've got a lot more to rethink about though.

[Skumpy]

I'm aware there's a US holiday and stuff, mainly becuase "Black Friday" has become a horrible crass sale thing over here in the past couple of years even though we don't celebrate thanksgiving at all. But that means you're all away from work and stuff, right? Lots of posting time? :-)

In theory, but now it's possible to make good progress because of a scum lynch. Once I do decide to really focus, I want to think I have a good shot of figuring it out. Which is why I procrastinate it because it requires a lot of time and energy, both resources I don't have much of.

I think I'm suffering from tryharditis. It's a damaging disease, trust me.

[2.71828.....]

First off: Awaclus. I don't know what to do. I have absolutely no idea on how to read him, his game style doesn't give anything away. And I can't keep putting him on the lynch-another-day list since we only have 1, maybe 2, mislynches of comfort room left. Does asking him to make reads on everybody accomplish anything, or does it generate an Awaclusian response?

The Teproc vote:

Awaclus, Space, IDPTG were all away and didn't weigh in. Space was defending LL, one of two (Andrew) who was doing so as late as midway through day 2. But even that wasn't a forceful townread. IDPTG had no interactions that I can see with LL/Teproc on day 2, besides agreeing on an early XX lynch. Not even gonna bother reading Awaclus, I'm sure I'll find nothing

As much as I can see a narrative for 2 of those first 3 to be scum...bussing LL/Teproc seems like a juicy opportunity to bus for at least 1 scum. gkrieg, DatSwan, 2.7, and Andrew all ended up voting Teproc.

gkrieg: It was an early bus D2 that didn't waver much. Looks nice on paper, but then again... Said he found Teproc much scummier than 2.7; even after the flip, I don't see how they differed that much. Also, gkrieg, you never did tell us why you think Andrew is scum. I would like to know now.

DatSwan: Votes LL quicklyish, then moves to Awaclus. Not the towniest of looks after Teproc flips. Also worth keeping in mind this was Teproc's scummiest player after the reread. But the timing of the vote for Teproc happens when it's Awaclus 2, Teproc 2, e 1. There's no indication before this point that Teproc was the likeliest lynch, I know I was willing to contribute to an Awaclus lynch. ScumSwan has a solid case against Awaclus, I don't see motivation for him to switch, because that vote looked like it would solidify the lynch as Teproc, until it didn't after the e wagon built. Could be designed to give him a lot of towncred for getting a scummy scum lynched. This is a hard game.

2.7: Nothing to be said about voting for Teproc, that's forced. Interesting part is the timing...took a while before he did, also was after the ever-scummy Awaclus before. Teproc acknowledges him as scum, but still passes over him in favor of voting DatSwan. If 2.7 is scum, that means there were twin correct wagons at the end of D2, with possibly gkrieg or DatSwan bussing Teproc before the second wagon exploded. Otherwise, it was just 1 correct lynch that scum was either powerless to prevent or else was OK with it happening.

Andrew: There's been a lot of interactions of interest: with IDPTG, with DatSwan, with Awaclus...and not really with Teproc. If he's scum, he takes advantage of my push for 2.7, hoping DatSwan will flip before he has to. If the team is 2.7/Andrew, I guess the motivation is a no lynch, but I never like assuming scum is trying to force a no lynch, so I think that's a team I can feel comfortable discounting for now. But I flip to Teproc, and regardless of whether he knew he was hammering or not, my flip is the one that tells him it looks back if he doesn't contribute to a lynch. I'm trying to leave reads out of it, but he was the only one to pounce on my Space accusation...which does concern me somewhat. Still, if scum plans on bussing a teammate to slip by for longer, this is not the unsuspicious, incognito way to do it. I think that's a good sign?


Conclusion: Last 2 scum are ?? and ?? I'm hoping I'll make a better insight at some point, but that point is not now. I don't know, maybe it's that time is harder for me to find now than my first game, but I just can't seem to focus this game. Probably because I'm putting off my being wrong for as long as humanly possible.

I suppose my top 2 picks at this point are gkrieg and 2.7. Partially the above, partially I just want to believe in #106. I'll get out of the "Not Voting" box with
 Vote: 2.7 I've got a lot more to rethink about though.

I like the skumpary, not the conclusion.

[2.71828.....]

Skumpy: Town. Skumpy has had a great game (I think). His votes against me are very townie. All for the right reasons. I just need to convince otherwise now.

Next up:gkrieg

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg: Town. See below. Skum!gkrieg doesn't do that


 

I like this from DatSwan.  Shows he is thinking about things, and trying to gather information from them.

Skumpy has a lot of stuff in his posts, but I really don't have any idea of what he'll look like when he is scum...

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

Well I have things to reconsider. I'm also moving on. I don't see how these two are mutually exclusive. And of course Dylan's reads are less important than Galzria's because Galzria was killed maybe for his reads, and Dylan wasn't. That is not controversial stuff.

I guess my point with that question is that you lead us to one mislynch, and the other person that you were heavily pushing for was also town, yet no one seems to give you any kind of scum points for that, and it looks like you are just chugging along like nothing really happened.

I intend to have my own fun with the probabilities when I have spare time, which will be Monday night my time. We'll see whether I agree with any of the numbers already posted. I don't think extensive debate about probabilities will be super-helpful, but I at least want to check that nobody's trying to mislead everyone with bad numbers.

I'm going to be semi-VLA tomorrow, because my super-secret new partner and I are spending a day in London doing tourist things. @gkrieg, you and kkrieg would be utterly bewildered at how few things we're planning on cramming into our day.

I'm not sure if I already responded to this, but 

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

I have to agree with faust that this post is scummy.

Also, in my head I'm getting really quite mixed up between Skumpy and Raptor, and also Swan a bit, because they're all quite new to me, and also some of them have the Galz "twin claim" thing. I still haven't quite understood what a twin claim actually means.

I really don't believe this. There is nothing at all similar about us, and I would not be surprised to see a scum team of Space/{Raptor,DatSwan} (or both).

Meh. You don't have to believe it for it to be true. You're the people who're new to me here, which is the major thing you have in common. You're largely unaware of people's personal metas, and we're largely unaware of yours with the exception of the twin/triplet claim stuff. I know most of you have played one other game around here, and I was on the scumteam with Swan in the last game I played in, but I still don't feel like I have a good measure of him.

Anyway, my reads summary back at #340 lumped all three of you together in the less-towny end of my feelings about people. I've said I'm happy enough with a wagon on any of you, so I don't really think that my pointing out that I'm prone to getting confused between you is helping supposed scum buddies. I mainly said it to give town a hand understanding me, and also for help understanding the "twin claim" thing, since the only place I'd come across it before was Swan in the game where we were both scum, and other there, there seemed to be more pressing stuff to discuss. I think without having had it explained, I'd have assumed it would mean that the involved people have similar thought processes or metas, rather than just that they know each other IRL.

I'm not sure if town!Space is so acutely aware of posts they made in the past.  I'll have to think about this one, although I wish I could see their face when I accused them.

So Faust, your top two scum reads are dead, but it seems to not have phased you at all and you say that Dylan’s reads don’t matter?  If I were in your position, I would acknowledge that I have some things to reconsider, but it seems like you are just moving on.

I don't think this is really fair to faust. I wouldn't put much stock into Dylan's reads either and I don't think faust really needs to come out and apologize to everyone. All we can do is "move on".

That wasn't my point.  My point was that most of the time when people lead a mislynch, while pushing another incorrect read, they at least acknowledge it and say they messed up, but that they're moving on.  Faust just starts right out of the gate, and it doesn't look like he has reevaluated at all.  I get that Dylan's reads aren't the most important ones, and that galzria's reads might be "more important", but that doesn't mean that Dylan's reads are completely useless. 

LL not moving his vote for pretty much the whole game is really strange to me but I'll have to go back and a do a reread on him.

Well, I pretty much thought for the whole D1 that Dylan was scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This doesn't come from town!LaLight. 

vote: LaLight

I think people should look more at faust later on.  I'm sad that no one is saying anything about the fact that faust was wrong on the two wagons he pushed D1.  I get that everyone has a right to be wrong, but I think it is townier to acknowledge that you were wrong.  I realize that people definitely disagree with me about this though.  I think the third scum could definitely be Andrew, for reasons that I'll explain eventually when I have time.  Mostly tone, and the content of his posts seems fake to me for some reason.

[2.71828.....]

DatSwan is also town. Consistently against LaLight, reacting when teproc replaced in seemed townie, and then going to vote teproc as well. Overall, not lynching today. Because he is town

[2.71828.....]

I hope I don't finish and everyone reads town but me...

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus: very single minded about lynching Andrew, which is very awaclus. He hasn't voted against scum all game, but he also hasn't voted a lot all game except on Andrew.

I am totally happy with my vote on awaclus

[2.71828.....]

I should read Andrew now since people are voting him.

[2.71828.....]

I should read Andrew now since people are voting him.

Andrew is very town. If he flips scum lynch me tomorrow for defending him, because that's what I will be doing.

What is the case against him?

[2.71828.....]

Ok, so space is the last scum with awaclus.

If you guys happen to lynch me today be sure to listen to me. Or we just lynch scum today

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ok, so space is the last scum with awaclus.

If you guys happen to lynch me today be sure to listen to me. Or we just lynch scum today

I'm totally cool with a Space lynch, not so sure about Awaclus but he's done absolutely nothing pro-town so at this point I would blame an Awaclus mislynch on nobody but Awaclus.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys. Pretty much VLA until Monday. I’m pretty sure Andrew is scum though. On Monday I’ll put something together

[Swowl]

I can do the whole quote post thing if needed for Space opinion. But this feels like literally 100% opposite of Skum Space I played with in 108. They had a PR there as well as being skum, so maybe it could be one or the other, but I really do not think they are our best option today.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

I'll take a better look at the rest of what you posted, but I really thought raptor would've flipped scum.

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

I'll take a better look at the rest of what you posted, but I really thought raptor would've flipped scum.

So....you are the vig....

[Swowl]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

I'll take a better look at the rest of what you posted, but I really thought raptor would've flipped scum.

So....you are the vig....

Why? Bc he though XXR would flip skum? If you are implying that this is a slip..
1) why would you point t out as town
2) do you really believe it. When i read it, it just read as if he thought XXR would turn over skum, not “when he shot XXR he thought he was shooting skum.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

I'll take a better look at the rest of what you posted, but I really thought raptor would've flipped scum.

So....you are the vig....

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I thought he was scum.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

I'll take a better look at the rest of what you posted, but I really thought raptor would've flipped scum.

So....you are the vig....

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I thought he was scum.

I'm also a bit of a mess right now due to medication.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Role fishing is not cool.

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey, I agree with Andrew, role fishing is really not cool.

I feel more likely to flip a scum if we go for a gkrieg lynch, but there doesn't seem to be enough support for that just now, and I'm almost as happy with an e lynch. As I said in my voting-summary post, the vote patterns from the two of them look most suspicious. Reads-wise, my third suspicious one, DatSwan, seems a bit less scummy maybe.

Vote: e

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey, I agree with Andrew, role fishing is really not cool.

I feel more likely to flip a scum if we go for a gkrieg lynch, but there doesn't seem to be enough support for that just now, and I'm almost as happy with an e lynch. As I said in my voting-summary post, the vote patterns from the two of them look most suspicious. Reads-wise, my third suspicious one, DatSwan, seems a bit less scummy maybe.

Vote: e

L-1

[2.71828.....]

Eh, role fishing isn't they terrible

[2.71828.....]

But also, I want asking him to claim or anything at all. I just was putting my thoughts out there. Take it or leave it.

Lynching me is no one's fault but my own because I was so inactive, and we can totally still win, but it would be nice to lynch scum

[2.71828.....]

Hey, I agree with Andrew, role fishing is really not cool.

I feel more likely to flip a scum if we go for a gkrieg lynch, but there doesn't seem to be enough support for that just now, and I'm almost as happy with an e lynch. As I said in my voting-summary post, the vote patterns from the two of them look most suspicious. Reads-wise, my third suspicious one, DatSwan, seems a bit less scummy maybe.

Vote: e

Did you read what I said about gkrieg? I get voting for me, but shading gkrieg as scummy is scummy

[2.71828.....]

IDPTG also reads town....

I should reread awaclus so I can at least find someone who reads scummy.

To expand on IDPTG, one interesting thing is the flip of raptor and how IDPTG was a big proponent of lynching him. I think that lands idptg more townie

I'll take a better look at the rest of what you posted, but I really thought raptor would've flipped scum.

So....you are the vig....

Why? Bc he though XXR would flip skum? If you are implying that this is a slip..
1) why would you point t out as town
2) do you really believe it. When i read it, it just read as if he thought XXR would turn over skum, not “when he shot XXR he thought he was shooting skum.

1) why would I not? We don't even know which person the vig targeted. We can guess, but no proof. Also, I could be totally wrong

2) I mean, I am like 50/50 on it. He could be the vig, or he might not be. It doesn't really affect us too much today - he is in no threat of getting lynched. The only person it affects is scum, I already claimed VT so they know I am not the vig, are they really going to trust the ramblings of vt!e when they go vig!hunting tonight?

Also, just throwing it out there - the vig shot was terrible. I don't care about who they shot as much as the timing. But that's my opinion. As they say....vigs gonna vig

[2.71828.....]

But back on topic. That post by space.... super scummy.

If a space wagon gets more momentum I can try to start that

Vote: space

But really, space or awaclus. Not voting anywhere else today.

[gkrieg13]

Hey, I agree with Andrew, role fishing is really not cool.

I feel more likely to flip a scum if we go for a gkrieg lynch, but there doesn't seem to be enough support for that just now, and I'm almost as happy with an e lynch. As I said in my voting-summary post, the vote patterns from the two of them look most suspicious. Reads-wise, my third suspicious one, DatSwan, seems a bit less scummy maybe.

Vote: e

I don’t know how my voting patterns are suspicious. I parked my vote on scum early and didn’t move it. I had good reason to do so, and I rarely bus as scum. I continued to push for the lynch. That is called being a good town player. I also bet schadd that I could find one scum each day, so I’m being more stubborn with my reads because of that.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Desperate scum!e role fishing. "I'm going to get lynched anyway, I might as well try to find out who the vig is." At least that's what it looks like.

[Swowl]

gonna go ahead and post the reminder that it is in fact L-1.

Intent to hammer probably a good idea before actually doing it imo.

[2.71828.....]

gonna go ahead and post the reminder that it is in fact L-1.

Intent to hammer probably a good idea before actually doing it imo.

I think if someone seriously fine me more scummy than awaclus or space, please, go ahead and hammer.

I also think that is you go back and look at awaclus. Look at space. You will find them scummier

[2.71828.....]

Am I scummy? Meh, maybe. I lurked more this game than I have ever before. I haven't helped out really at all. My vote on teproc was one of convenience, not conviction. So yeah, voting for me isn't terrible. But it isn't good either

[Swowl]

make a case man. telling us to look back is what we have been doing for the past several days. This is the conclusion we arrived at. If your votes were convenient and you didn't really help hunt you gotta do better than "go and look at these guys".

[2.71828.....]

make a case man. telling us to look back is what we have been doing for the past several days. This is the conclusion we arrived at. If your votes were convenient and you didn't really help hunt you gotta do better than "go and look at these guys".

What is the case against me? Basically, that I lurked? That's all I have seen

[2.71828.....]

I don't have a clear 3 point case on either space or awaclus. I mean, I could fabricate something I am sure. They were just the ones I ended on after my rereading. Awaclus I had been on for a while, space kind of surprised me.

[2.71828.....]

Also, please don't excuse awaclus as being town of he didn't hammer me, he is just staying in meta. He latches onto a read and doesn't let go, no matter how town they are

[schadd]

Vote count 3.2

AndrewisFTTW (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame
2.71828... (4): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, Skumpy, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): 2.71828...

not voting (0) :

with 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 ends wednesday, november 29th at 01:00 forum time.

mod notes

• it is no longer thanksgiving

[2.71828.....]

But seriously. All the wagons are terrible.

People should reread space

[Skumpy]

Unvote

Gonna do some more thinking right now. Pre-that, 2.7 is still a top pick. But we don't need to lynch with 4 days left.

[SpaceAnemone]

Voting snapshots for D1:

First three-person wagon of the game. Would Teproc jump onto Dylan right after Andrew if they're both scum? There's more of this Andrew-Teproc joint voting in D2, as well.
#165
DatSwan (1): Dylan32
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Galzria
AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (1): SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (3): faust, AndrewisFTTW, Teproc
SpaceAnemone (1): gkrieg13
faust (1): Xxraptorslayer96
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Skumpy
Not Voting (1): DatSwan


Now I've got a three-person wagon. Given the remaining distribution and people's flips, it's reasonably to assume at least one scum is on me. I don't think Andrew is scum, and I think gkrieg is more likely than DatSwan.
#283
Dylan32 (2): faust, Teproc
SpaceAnemone (3): gkrieg13, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
AndrewisFTTW (2): IDontPlayThisGame, SpaceAnemone
Teproc (2): Galzria, Dylan32
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Skumpy


Would Swan have jumped onto the deflating Dylan train as scum here right behind his scum-buddy?
#331
Dylan32 (3): faust, Teproc, DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (2): gkrieg13, AndrewisFTTW
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Awaclus
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
Teproc (2): Galzria, Dylan32
AndrewisFTTW (2): SpaceAnemone, Skumpy
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame


Here's a point where Skumpy has just switched over from Andrew. The Dylan-wagon unknowns are Andrew and Skumpy. The Andrew-wagon unknowns are Swan, Awaclus and gkrieg. The not-on-either-wagon people are e and IDP.
#470
Dylan32 (5): faust, Teproc, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, Skumpy
faust (2): Xxraptorslayer96, Dylan32
IDontPlayThisGame (1): 2.71828.....
AndrewisFTTW (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame

End of D1. The most likely thing here is that there's one additional scum on Dylan (Andrew, e, IDP), and one on Andrew (Swan Awaclus, gkrieg). Given that e has pretty much been vig-hunting at IDP, and that Andrew seems more town that not, I think it's really likely that e is the other Dylan-wagon scum. 
#545
Dylan32 (7): faust, Teproc, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828....., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96
AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Not Voting (1): Skumpy



Voting snapshots for D2:

This is afew votes into the day. Doesn't looke partnery for IDP.
#621
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): Teproc, IDontPlayThisGame
Awaclus (2): 2.71828....., faust
Not Voting (7): Skumpy, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

Andrew follows Teproc onto me, and the two of them stay there for a while. This isn't a normal scum pattern of voting.
#666
Awaclus (1): 2.71828.....
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
SpaceAnemone (2): Teproc, AndrewisFTTW
Teproc (2): faust, DatSwan
Not Voting (5): Skumpy, Xxraptorslayer96, gkrieg13, Awaclus, SpaceAnemone

This one is close to the lynch, where 3 has joined the Teproc wagon. It might point to gkrieg and e not being partners, because that's quite early (L-2) for both partners to be on the Teproc wagon. (I also think it makes gkrieg-Swan less likely, too).
#810
Teproc (4): faust, gkrieg13, DatSwan, 2.71828.....
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
Xxraptorslayer96 (1): Skumpy
SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame
2.71828..... (2): Teproc, AndrewisFTTW
Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, Xxraptorslayer96

[SpaceAnemone]

@schadd, can I post voting snapshots like that with colour next time? I know some mods are iffy about it so I wanted to be sure before doing so. They're much easier to interpret with all the green and red, though...

green and red are no problem. just don't use my luscious 21B35F

[SpaceAnemone]

Anyway, people I'm not feeling scummy at are Andrew, Swan, Skumpy and IDP for a combination of reads and weak voting evidence. I'm not interested in voting for any of those four for today. However, I should definitely still re-evaluate them, particularly Skumpy and IDP, in the light of whatever flip we get next.

Slightly scummy people are gkrieg and Awaclus, in terms of not having made useful town contributions combined with the fact their voting histories complemented/avoided our known scum's voting behaviour, meaning that they look like somewhat more likely partners.

The most scummy is e, for his positioning on many of the wagons, for his lack of cases on other players (other than his vague "hey, look at them" stuff), for his game-long lurkiness, recent role-fishing, and because trying to lump me in with Awaclus as his top pair of scum candidates actually sounds a lot like desperate scum flailing in the direction of popular mislynches.

[Skumpy]

@Space: Your vote tracker keeps missing my vote for 2.7 on day 2, just so you know. Also, the unlikely is likely to happen at some point; Scum not being together in the first 3 votes on someone is something that I know is not the case all the time. Twice is a heck of a coincidence in the case of Andrew, I wouldn't say it would clear DatSwan or IDPTG though.

@gkrieg: When you make your case against Andrew, be sure to include who you think his partner is. As a reminder, Andrew was nearly lynched D1. Teproc stayed as far away from Andrew as possible, so what was the partner up to?

@2.7 You liked my scumpary....then you decided that everyone on the Teproc wagon was town? Because that's what I keep coming back to. I think DatSwan is towny for the timing, I think Andrew is towny just overall. I think I'm towny, but not totally sure yet. Which leaves you and gkrieg. But gkrieg's town for that one post against LaLight?

I don't know if I fully trust Space after accusing me and backing away when it was clear that's not a wagon that's gonna happen, but I do think the 2.7/gkrieg team is a strong possibility. Count me in on the team that doesn't want Andrew lynched today. Awaclus and Space...possibly, but not right now. Though getting Awaclus off the table opens the door for a lot of better reading regardless of the flip, that's a lynch I know I'm never going to be against (me and 50 others I'm sure). IDPTG, I haven't forgotten the slip. Using 'None' as a 'last PR' seems to be a stretch. I don't have a lot to use against him though. Same goes for Swan.


Vote: gkrieg, 2.7 still in the running. The Space Case is convincing and 2.7 has not had a very towny D3. But I do wonder if I'm being hoodwinked by a good argument, because scum's not going to say something obviously wrong to convince me. In the end....yeah, I'd vote 2.7 closer to the deadline. gkrieg now because the wagon's smaller and because I do think scum wants to have a prime and select bus position on Teproc.

[2.71828.....]

My D3 has been incredibly townie

[Skumpy]

Since everybody's figured out my alignment by now (*golf claps*)...

...It's time for another round of Skumpy's-(patented)-Elimination-Wheel-of-Game! For all you newcomers, I pick a pair, prove the nonexistence of any other possible team, and narrow our lynch pool down to two people, at least one of whom is scum! I have a track of record of 1/1, with calling out both scum the first time!

Today's love match is: 2.7 and gkrieg!

Who else could the scum team be? It's Teproc and ....

Awaclus/Space
Awaclus/IDPTG
Awaclus/DatSwan
Awaclus/Andrew
Space/IDPTG
Space/DatSwan
Space/Andrew
IDPTG/DatSwan
IDPTG/Andrew
DatSwan/Andrew

(I actually didn't think this through all the way, and I don't have time to finish now  )

Let's knock out a couple right now!
If it's Awaclus/IDPTG....what, no bussing at all? C'mon, how do you go through 2.5 days without voting for a partnered Awaclus or Teproc?
If it's Awaclus/Space...see Awaclus/IDPTG. Though LL did vote for Space once. Maybe slightly more likely.

So 8 left. I will revisit this and continue and make better cases. Contributions are welcome if you don't clear yourself.


PPE: eh. I've seen townier D3's. I could be wrong!

[gkrieg13]

Can people explain to me how my voting history is scummy at all?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

IDPTG, I haven't forgotten the slip. Using 'None' as a 'last PR' seems to be a stretch.

When I wrote the initial message, I'd intended Vig as the "last PR" but went with "none" in the explanation as it fit the point totals for scum PRs.

Space, one problem I have with your D1 snapshot is that you use Teproc instead of LaLight. Despite occupying the same slot in this game, scum!LaLight almost certainly plays differently than scum!Teproc and analyzing LaLight's D1 through Teproc's meta can only lead to problems.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

By which I mean, "why would LaLight do this?", "why would Teproc do this?", and "why would scum do this?" are different enough questions that I don't think they should be lumped together.

[Skumpy]

Can people explain to me how my voting history is scummy at all?

Do you think LL or Teproc was bussed at all (not "Yeah, I'll vote for him" or a final Andrew-style-hammer, voting for them before it was cool)?

[2.71828.....]

Can people explain to me how my voting history is scummy at all?

Do you think LL or Teproc was bussed at all (not "Yeah, I'll vote for him" or a final Andrew-style-hammer, voting for them before it was cool)?

Do you think an absent partner comes back from lurking and posts a summary post about everyone and lands on their partner with a vote that was critical in enabling the teproc lynch?

Like, without gkrieg that lynch doesn't happen. It is WAY too easy for scum to come back and basically ignore their partner, vote town, get a mislynch.

While gkrieg may have not had the most fabulous game of mafia ever, he isn't scum

[2.71828.....]

The most scummy is e, for (1) his positioning on many of the wagons, for 2 his lack of cases on other players (other than his vague "hey, look at them" stuff), for 3 his game-long lurkiness, 4 recent role-fishing, and 5 because trying to lump me in with Awaclus as his top pair of scum candidates actually sounds a lot like desperate scum flailing in the direction of popular mislynches.

1) voting history is your thing, yeah, but sometimes your raw science approach to it is lacking. Also, your snapshot of votes and the conclusions are questionable at best. You take the data and draw the conclusions you want to draw, not the conclusions that are sitting right in front of you. For example, the last bit on D2 - instead of saying that at L-2 it is unlikely 2 scum are on the wagon, you say gkrieg and e aren't partners. You went in biased against me and gkrieg, and guess what you found! Amazing!

2) they can't all be the best cases

3) nothing I can do about it now. Except keep posting

4) this is a playstyle thing more than anything. I post some stuff that comes to mind and I get in trouble for it. Not the first time, won't be the last.

5) I am scum because I come to a conclusion that includes you as scum. That's called....wait for it.....OMGUS.

[2.71828.....]

Can people explain to me how my voting history is scummy at all?

Do you think LL or Teproc was bussed at all (not "Yeah, I'll vote for him" or a final Andrew-style-hammer, voting for them before it was cool)?

I think it is a very real possibility that they were not bussed. I don't want to rule that scenario completely out at least. Don't pigeon hole yourself

[Swowl]

promise I am still here guys/girls. I will be more at it this evening and back to normal as well. Had lots of family and such in town this weekend.

[gkrieg13]

Can people explain to me how my voting history is scummy at all?

Do you think LL or Teproc was bussed at all (not "Yeah, I'll vote for him" or a final Andrew-style-hammer, voting for them before it was cool)?

I h ent gone back and looked, but if I were lurking scum, like e said I wouldn’t have parked a very well thought out vote on someone I historically read well and not come back to switch my vote after other people had seen the light. You want to put flimsy cases on your partners as scum. I also don’t really bus as scum, and I don’t think there was much of a point to bus here.

Not having looked at it, it’s hard to say if he was bussed. How would a lynch play out in the case scum bussed and they didn’t bus?

[gkrieg13]

@skumpy. What do you mean Teproc stayed far away from Andrew?  Isn’t that what you do as partners?  What do you expect partners to do in mafia?

[Skumpy]

@skumpy. What do you mean Teproc stayed far away from Andrew?  Isn’t that what you do as partners?  What do you expect partners to do in mafia?

Usually stay away, but I wouldn't call it a truth universally acknowledged. And I'd expect at least some interaction between 2 scum somewhere. But what I was saying was: if youre going to make a case against Andrew, I think you should include a case for the third partner that tries to finish the puzzle, which includes a D1 featuring 1 correct wagon that at least 1 scum did not bus. And then we'll see if it explains everything.

[gkrieg13]

@skumpy. What do you mean Teproc stayed far away from Andrew?  Isn’t that what you do as partners?  What do you expect partners to do in mafia?

Usually stay away, but I wouldn't call it a truth universally acknowledged. And I'd expect at least some interaction between 2 scum somewhere. But what I was saying was: if youre going to make a case against Andrew, I think you should include a case for the third partner that tries to finish the puzzle, which includes a D1 featuring 1 correct wagon that at least 1 scum did not bus. And then we'll see if it explains everything.

I see your point, but that’s not always how it goes. I don’t like to call scum teams too early because then people discount the team because of the third teammate. Also scum then knows who I think the third one is which gives them a lot of information. So I won’t name a third person.

[Swowl]

Since everybody's figured out my alignment by now (*golf claps*)...

...It's time for another round of Skumpy's-(patented)-Elimination-Wheel-of-Game! For all you newcomers, I pick a pair, prove the nonexistence of any other possible team, and narrow our lynch pool down to two people, at least one of whom is scum! I have a track of record of 1/1, with calling out both scum the first time!

Today's love match is: 2.7 and gkrieg!

Who else could the scum team be? It's Teproc and ....

Awaclus/Space
Awaclus/IDPTG
Awaclus/DatSwan
Awaclus/Andrew
Space/IDPTG
Space/DatSwan
Space/Andrew
IDPTG/DatSwan
IDPTG/Andrew
DatSwan/Andrew

(I actually didn't think this through all the way, and I don't have time to finish now  )

Let's knock out a couple right now!
If it's Awaclus/IDPTG....what, no bussing at all? C'mon, how do you go through 2.5 days without voting for a partnered Awaclus or Teproc?
If it's Awaclus/Space...see Awaclus/IDPTG. Though LL did vote for Space once. Maybe slightly more likely.

So 8 left. I will revisit this and continue and make better cases. Contributions are welcome if you don't clear yourself.


PPE: eh. I've seen townier D3's. I could be wrong!

My input on the potential matchups:

Awaclus/Space - Voting history would dictate that this is unlikely. As well as content.  They avoid each other completely to double up on Andrew at the end of the Day 1. If Andrew is Town this looks fishy, if Andrew is Skum this looks fishy. I don't think a team of these two players would do this. And then there is D2... towards the end it was quite clear we were gonna get our guy with Teproc. In this situation, why wouldn't one of them switch over?

Awaclus/IDPTG - To Skumpy's point, I think it unlikely that both players managed to be off the bus of of ALL potential team mates over the course of 2+ days. That being said, they were split end of D1. If Andrew is town or skum this would be the play to make imo.

Awaclus/DatSwan - Not gonna say much as I am obviously bias. D1 we were one the same no lynch, D2 we were on different people.

Awaclus/Andrew - If they are both skum then they both knew Teproc was skum. Niether of them wanted to switch to him D2 for Town points? I find that un-likely. Also, Awaclus has been on Andrew like forevvveeerrrrr. I feel like it is too blatant of a push, D1 included, for this duo to make sense.

Space/IDPTG - Split on D1, see above for how I see that. Also, neither bus on D2 which again is odd. Don't think this one is likely.

Space/DatSwan - As before, gonna keep it brief on mine. D1 we were both on Andrew. Depending on what alliance Andrew is, this could be either skummy or not skummy. D2 I was the only one on the Teproc wagon, pushing it for most the day. I guess that is how Space!Swan would play it. Since it only makes sense if Andrew is also Town, I guess someone who isn't me should look into this more.

Space/Andrew - From a vote perspective this one makes the most sense to me so far. Space is on Andrew D1. Assuming Andrew is Skum, this would look good down the road if he were to be flipped. D2 Space is off Teproc and Andrew is the hammer. Big town point gain for the hammer normally, but it was pretty clear Teproc was going down so I would keep an eye on this thought.

IDPTG/DatSwan - Split on D1. I am on Teproc D2 and IDPTG is off. In a world where we know the skum team, making Andrew Town, this would make sense.

IDPTG/Andrew - This would mean all three were on the Dylan wagon D1. Normally I would rule it out right there, and I still find it unlikely, but with the whole "what was Andrew supposed to do" bit I guess maybe. Still down there though. D2 IDPTG was off Teproc and Andrew was the hammer. I guess that adds up, but D1 still is a pretty big disqualifier.

DatSwan/Andrew - I mean, I just don't see this being a thing in anyone's head, including mine. We were on each other. I was on Andrew all of D1 and he was on Dylan if not on me. Then, D2 I was Teproc and he ended up on Teproc. Based on interactions I feel far more towny of Andrew all together than I did originally.

Also adding in:

Skumpy/Awaclus - Not really much here. Separate wagons all the time. Not much interaction.

Skumpy/IDPTG - IDPTG switches onto dylan as Skumpy switches to no vote. Don't really see that making sense from a skum perspective. D2 they are both off of Teproc, which again I feel is unlikely no Skum on that wagon.

Skumpy/Space - Split on D1, both off on D2. Same logic as above.

Skumpy/Andrew - Don't understand why Skum!Skumpy would vote off of Dylan D1. Andrew hammer D2 skumpy on the off vote. D1 doesn't make sense and imo outweighs D2 add up.


Gonna go through and re read E! and IDPTG to finish this off, but that is what I have FWIW.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry, busy weekend. I'll get back into this tomorrow.

[SpaceAnemone]

@skumpy and @Swan, if you're going to go through pairings and look at how likely they are to be the one true scum-pair left, you really have to be a lot more systematic and organised about it, or at least present your ramblings as something other than sensible elimination.

I mean, I do agree that having a set of likely third partners is nice when lynching a second scum. Ideally, we want to look at every possible trio that contains Teproc, assign a likelihood to each of his possible pairs of buddies, then marginalize to see which single player has the highest chance of being in a pairing, and go for the lynch on that one. But that only works if you're willing to consider all 21 pairs from your personal perspective, not just the 11 from Skumpy's post at #958. (He only posted e-gkrieg, then the 10 pairs not including himself, e or gkrieg).

[SpaceAnemone]

Space/DatSwan - As before, gonna keep it brief on mine. D1 we were both on Andrew. Depending on what alliance Andrew is, this could be either skummy or not skummy. D2 I was the only one on the Teproc wagon, pushing it for most the day. I guess that is how Space!Swan would play it. Since it only makes sense if Andrew is also Town, I guess someone who isn't me should look into this more.

You're trying too hard to look helpful. How about being helpful instead? "Someone who isn't me should look into this more" -- if you're town, you want town to spend its limited resources on actively finding scum, not waste time evaluating possibilities that you and I both know are dead ends.

Space/Andrew - From a vote perspective this one makes the most sense to me so far. Space is on Andrew D1. Assuming Andrew is Skum, this would look good down the road if he were to be flipped. D2 Space is off Teproc and Andrew is the hammer. Big town point gain for the hammer normally, but it was pretty clear Teproc was going down so I would keep an eye on this thought.

Okay, unlike the pairing above, at least here you've proven that you can reason about a scum team without worrying about whether any 4th players might also be scum. I can assure you I'm town, and I actually think Andrew is town now too, having looked at the votes after the Teproc flip. I've already posted my thoughts on that. But seriously, go and look at a pairing like e-Awaclus and tell me that's less likely in your opinion.

[Swowl]

@skumpy and @Swan, if you're going to go through pairings and look at how likely they are to be the one true scum-pair left, you really have to be a lot more systematic and organised about it, or at least present your ramblings as something other than sensible elimination.

I mean, I do agree that having a set of likely third partners is nice when lynching a second scum. Ideally, we want to look at every possible trio that contains Teproc, assign a likelihood to each of his possible pairs of buddies, then marginalize to see which single player has the highest chance of being in a pairing, and go for the lynch on that one. But that only works if you're willing to consider all 21 pairs from your personal perspective, not just the 11 from Skumpy's post at #958. (He only posted e-gkrieg, then the 10 pairs not including himself, e or gkrieg).

I can do it however iplease thank very much
But also yeah didn’t realize list was in finished until i was done filling it out and then it was time for bed.

[Swowl]

Space/DatSwan - As before, gonna keep it brief on mine. D1 we were both on Andrew. Depending on what alliance Andrew is, this could be either skummy or not skummy. D2 I was the only one on the Teproc wagon, pushing it for most the day. I guess that is how Space!Swan would play it. Since it only makes sense if Andrew is also Town, I guess someone who isn't me should look into this more.

You're trying too hard to look helpful. How about being helpful instead? "Someone who isn't me should look into this more" -- if you're town, you want town to spend its limited resources on actively finding scum, not waste time evaluating possibilities that you and I both know are dead ends.

Finding Town and finding skum are both important to town, not a waste of time to suggest Town players analyze s situation.

[gkrieg13]

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

[SpaceAnemone]

Space/DatSwan - As before, gonna keep it brief on mine. D1 we were both on Andrew. Depending on what alliance Andrew is, this could be either skummy or not skummy. D2 I was the only one on the Teproc wagon, pushing it for most the day. I guess that is how Space!Swan would play it. Since it only makes sense if Andrew is also Town, I guess someone who isn't me should look into this more.

You're trying too hard to look helpful. How about being helpful instead? "Someone who isn't me should look into this more" -- if you're town, you want town to spend its limited resources on actively finding scum, not waste time evaluating possibilities that you and I both know are dead ends.

Finding Town and finding skum are both important to town, not a waste of time to suggest Town players analyze s situation.

Huh? You're literally telling people that they should spend time working out whether you and I are the remaining two scums, when you must know for a fact that it can't possibly be the case, because either you're scum and therefore know I'm not, or you're town, and therefore know for certain that not both of us are scums.

People are posting things like "I'll get to this tomorrow" or generally not having a lot of time for this game, so what motivation is there for you to encourage them to look at us as a pair, rather than looking over pairings you have some belief could in any way possibly be the scum-pair?

[SpaceAnemone]

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

I kind of did.. I said that I think marginalizing over all possible pairs containing a player is actually what would be good. Your example about disregarding a scum pair based on the identity of the third person kind of missed the point, because you were worrying about thinkinking player A might not be scum just because pair A-B wasn't good, but really we'd have to consider A likely to be scum in A-B, A-C, A-D etc too in order for A to be a good lynch. Enumerating the rest of those pairings is exactly what Skumpy and DatSwan were doing particularly badly, so I agree with you in that limited respect, but I don't agree that it's a bad approach in general.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space, one problem I have with your D1 snapshot is that you use Teproc instead of LaLight. Despite occupying the same slot in this game, scum!LaLight almost certainly plays differently than scum!Teproc and analyzing LaLight's D1 through Teproc's meta can only lead to problems.

Yeah, I agree that it's better to remember where one ended and the other began. My formatting there is just because of a limitation of the current implementation of my vote-counter: I didn't design it to handle people subbing in/out, but I did have to spend time considering how to make it handle player aliases comfortably, so I've basically just told it that "LaLight" is now a variant spelling of "Teproc" and it's happy.

[gkrieg13]

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

I kind of did.. I said that I think marginalizing over all possible pairs containing a player is actually what would be good. Your example about disregarding a scum pair based on the identity of the third person kind of missed the point, because you were worrying about thinkinking player A might not be scum just because pair A-B wasn't good, but really we'd have to consider A likely to be scum in A-B, A-C, A-D etc too in order for A to be a good lynch. Enumerating the rest of those pairings is exactly what Skumpy and DatSwan were doing particularly badly, so I agree with you in that limited respect, but I don't agree that it's a bad approach in general.

What I am saying is that gives scum a lot of information over who will be lynched if someone flips scum, and it is wayyyy too early to be talking about entire scumteams at this point.  It also gives scum an opportunity to pair people together to try to line up bad lynches.  I think you want to save your time and just do targeted rereads and look at interactions, instead of trying to exhaustively look at every single pair of scumteams, which tells scum who they should kill.

[2.71828.....]

I agree with gkrieg. The only reason I call scum teams is because I think it is a fun thing to do. I have yet to actually be completely right about any sort of prediction about scum teams though. Maybe this will be that magical game where I actually call the right team....

[AndrewisFTTW]

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

I kind of did.. I said that I think marginalizing over all possible pairs containing a player is actually what would be good. Your example about disregarding a scum pair based on the identity of the third person kind of missed the point, because you were worrying about thinkinking player A might not be scum just because pair A-B wasn't good, but really we'd have to consider A likely to be scum in A-B, A-C, A-D etc too in order for A to be a good lynch. Enumerating the rest of those pairings is exactly what Skumpy and DatSwan were doing particularly badly, so I agree with you in that limited respect, but I don't agree that it's a bad approach in general.

What I am saying is that gives scum a lot of information over who will be lynched if someone flips scum, and it is wayyyy too early to be talking about entire scumteams at this point.  It also gives scum an opportunity to pair people together to try to line up bad lynches.  I think you want to save your time and just do targeted rereads and look at interactions, instead of trying to exhaustively look at every single pair of scumteams, which tells scum who they should kill.

I agree with this, it's not worth it right now. Besides, we have (had?) a great lynch candidate today! e!

[Skumpy]

Behind. Responding as I go.

@skumpy and @Swan, if you're going to go through pairings and look at how likely they are to be the one true scum-pair left, you really have to be a lot more systematic and organised about it, or at least present your ramblings as something other than sensible elimination.

I mean, I do agree that having a set of likely third partners is nice when lynching a second scum. Ideally, we want to look at every possible trio that contains Teproc, assign a likelihood to each of his possible pairs of buddies, then marginalize to see which single player has the highest chance of being in a pairing, and go for the lynch on that one. But that only works if you're willing to consider all 21 pairs from your personal perspective, not just the 11 from Skumpy's post at #958. (He only posted e-gkrieg, then the 10 pairs not including himself, e or gkrieg).

Not sure what 'something other than sensible eliimination' entails.
I'm not going to actually finish this because
a) time. It's going to take a lot of work to present solid cases against all 10 pairs, which I'm not willing or have access to at this point
b) I got overzealous, I don't think I can get rid of all 10. I got eager because there were a bunch that seemed easy to get rid of (such as Awaclus/Andrew), but there are a bunch that it's going to be a stretch to get rid of.

My first (rather successful!) attempt was #1154 in M105. I took the 10 potential teams of 3 from a group of 5 that excluded myself, the IC, and 2 unknowns I wanted to isolate, and tried to show none made sense. What I was trying to do with that was avoid getting shutout my first time playing, and make a lynch pool of 2 that would guarantee 1 correct lynch on the next 2 days. But since I'm not going to be finishing it, I agree that the next best thing is to eliminate as many teams as possible and lynch the greatest common denominator. That is something I think I can manage at least some of. For instance, Awaclus/Andrew reminds me of Andrew's arguing semantics, and I don't think it's a bluffed argument. I don't know Awaclus' history with tunnel bussing, but I would imagine it's low. And as I alluded to earlier, I don't see why scum!Andrew stays off the Teproc wagon only to join another wagon against scum!e, and then flip to the other, so Andrew/2.7 seems unlikely as well.

@skumpy. What do you mean Teproc stayed far away from Andrew?  Isn’t that what you do as partners?  What do you expect partners to do in mafia?

Usually stay away, but I wouldn't call it a truth universally acknowledged. And I'd expect at least some interaction between 2 scum somewhere. But what I was saying was: if youre going to make a case against Andrew, I think you should include a case for the third partner that tries to finish the puzzle, which includes a D1 featuring 1 correct wagon that at least 1 scum did not bus. And then we'll see if it explains everything.

I see your point, but that’s not always how it goes. I don’t like to call scum teams too early because then people discount the team because of the third teammate. Also scum then knows who I think the third one is which gives them a lot of information. So I won’t name a third person.

I held back the one key reason why I wanted the third person: if Andrew is scum, then who could possibly be the partner, based on the fact that a lot of Andrew teams are unlikely? In my brief thinking, without much rereading admittedly, I felt the most likely partner for scum!Andrew....is you! (and maybe IDPTG, which sadly ruins the dramatic emphasis).


Now that I'm seeing Space vs. World, I'm teamSpace. It's D3, with a successful lynch behind us. That's more than enough information to knock out quite a few possibilities. It doesn't have to narrow all the way down to a correct pair, or even a pool of two as I once planned, but it gives probabilities to lynches, which is helpful. Will it err sometimes and a scumteam will figure out how to disguise themselves. Sure. But if it's accurate, say, 60% of the time...I'd take a 60% winrate any day of the week. I guess I'm a progressive when it comes to mafia strategy.

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

I kind of did.. I said that I think marginalizing over all possible pairs containing a player is actually what would be good. Your example about disregarding a scum pair based on the identity of the third person kind of missed the point, because you were worrying about thinkinking player A might not be scum just because pair A-B wasn't good, but really we'd have to consider A likely to be scum in A-B, A-C, A-D etc too in order for A to be a good lynch. Enumerating the rest of those pairings is exactly what Skumpy and DatSwan were doing particularly badly, so I agree with you in that limited respect, but I don't agree that it's a bad approach in general.

What I am saying is that gives scum a lot of information over who will be lynched if someone flips scum, and it is wayyyy too early to be talking about entire scumteams at this point.  It also gives scum an opportunity to pair people together to try to line up bad lynches.  I think you want to save your time and just do targeted rereads and look at interactions, instead of trying to exhaustively look at every single pair of scumteams, which tells scum who they should kill.

...except there's a Vig with IC potential still alive. And maybe more (Doc/Neo).


2ish days left. Ok with voting 2.7, not ok with Andrew until someone makes a solid, all-inclusive case.

Vote: Awaclus
I'm done giving this a pass. There's gain even he's town with regards to above-enumerated-interactons-list. Is that a terrible perspective on D3? Probably! But people talk and I'm gullible and I believe them. I wasn't feeling them before...now I am starting to sense some marionette strings. And I do not appreciate it. Gut still tells me a scum's under the radar.

[2.71828.....]

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

I kind of did.. I said that I think marginalizing over all possible pairs containing a player is actually what would be good. Your example about disregarding a scum pair based on the identity of the third person kind of missed the point, because you were worrying about thinkinking player A might not be scum just because pair A-B wasn't good, but really we'd have to consider A likely to be scum in A-B, A-C, A-D etc too in order for A to be a good lynch. Enumerating the rest of those pairings is exactly what Skumpy and DatSwan were doing particularly badly, so I agree with you in that limited respect, but I don't agree that it's a bad approach in general.

What I am saying is that gives scum a lot of information over who will be lynched if someone flips scum, and it is wayyyy too early to be talking about entire scumteams at this point.  It also gives scum an opportunity to pair people together to try to line up bad lynches.  I think you want to save your time and just do targeted rereads and look at interactions, instead of trying to exhaustively look at every single pair of scumteams, which tells scum who they should kill.

I agree with this, it's not worth it right now. Besides, we have (had?) a great lynch candidate today! e!

Had is the better word there. Ever since he became an active part of the discussion he has proven his towniness over and over.

We should look at someone like, say, awaclus.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: Awaclus

[Skumpy]

Vote: Awaclus
I'm done giving this a pass. There's gain even he's town with regards to above-enumerated-interactons-list. Is that a terrible perspective on D3? Probably! But people talk and I'm gullible and I believe them. I wasn't feeling them before...now I am starting to sense some marionette strings. And I do not appreciate it. Gut still tells me a scum's under the radar.

Had is the better word there. Ever since he became an active part of the discussion he has proven his towniness over and over.

We should look at someone like, say, awaclus.

Vote: Awaclus

The face I'm making now features squinting eyes, a mouth moved upwards in a half smirk, a more-exposed-than-usual chin thanks to a tucked lower lip, a deep breath/sign through my nose, and I wonder if I just made a really bad decision.

[Swowl]

I agree with gkrieg. The only reason I call scum teams is because I think it is a fun thing to do. I have yet to actually be completely right about any sort of prediction about scum teams though. Maybe this will be that magical game where I actually call the right team....

I mean the point of skum team creation would be to find the lcd player that matches with your reads and target that player.... I don't think anyone is actually going for the curry half line shot at this point...

[2.71828.....]

Vote: Awaclus
I'm done giving this a pass. There's gain even he's town with regards to above-enumerated-interactons-list. Is that a terrible perspective on D3? Probably! But people talk and I'm gullible and I believe them. I wasn't feeling them before...now I am starting to sense some marionette strings. And I do not appreciate it. Gut still tells me a scum's under the radar.

Had is the better word there. Ever since he became an active part of the discussion he has proven his towniness over and over.

We should look at someone like, say, awaclus.

Vote: Awaclus

The face I'm making now features squinting eyes, a mouth moved upwards in a half smirk, a more-exposed-than-usual chin thanks to a tucked lower lip, a deep breath/sign through my nose, and I wonder if I just made a really bad decision.

I have been voting awaclus all game. You know this. I temporarily went to space to see if anyone would join me there. I see your vote on awaclus and go back to him. Like I said earlier, I will lynch either of them today

[2.71828.....]

I agree with gkrieg. The only reason I call scum teams is because I think it is a fun thing to do. I have yet to actually be completely right about any sort of prediction about scum teams though. Maybe this will be that magical game where I actually call the right team....

I mean the point of skum team creation would be to find the lcd player that matches with your reads and target that player.... I don't think anyone is actually going for the curry half line shot at this point...

Curry's half court shots are way more accurate than my reads

[Skumpy]

Vote: Awaclus
I'm done giving this a pass. There's gain even he's town with regards to above-enumerated-interactons-list. Is that a terrible perspective on D3? Probably! But people talk and I'm gullible and I believe them. I wasn't feeling them before...now I am starting to sense some marionette strings. And I do not appreciate it. Gut still tells me a scum's under the radar.

Had is the better word there. Ever since he became an active part of the discussion he has proven his towniness over and over.

We should look at someone like, say, awaclus.

Vote: Awaclus

The face I'm making now features squinting eyes, a mouth moved upwards in a half smirk, a more-exposed-than-usual chin thanks to a tucked lower lip, a deep breath/sign through my nose, and I wonder if I just made a really bad decision.

I have been voting awaclus all game. You know this. I temporarily went to space to see if anyone would join me there. I see your vote on awaclus and go back to him. Like I said earlier, I will lynch either of them today

I guess I did know that, but my recency bias kicked into gear when I see my vote for a scummy player is immediately followed by another scummy player's vote. That's rarely a good sign.

I agree with gkrieg. The only reason I call scum teams is because I think it is a fun thing to do. I have yet to actually be completely right about any sort of prediction about scum teams though. Maybe this will be that magical game where I actually call the right team....

I mean the point of skum team creation would be to find the lcd player that matches with your reads and target that player.... I don't think anyone is actually going for the curry half line shot at this point...

I was gonna comment on your basketball terminology, but I have a quota of being rude to people once a game each (I'm sure I've violated that by now though with somebody here). How do you feel about 2.7's case against Space and/or Awaclus?

[Swowl]

Does anyone want to even comment on what I am saying about talking about specific pairings???

I kind of did.. I said that I think marginalizing over all possible pairs containing a player is actually what would be good. Your example about disregarding a scum pair based on the identity of the third person kind of missed the point, because you were worrying about thinkinking player A might not be scum just because pair A-B wasn't good, but really we'd have to consider A likely to be scum in A-B, A-C, A-D etc too in order for A to be a good lynch. Enumerating the rest of those pairings is exactly what Skumpy and DatSwan were doing particularly badly, so I agree with you in that limited respect, but I don't agree that it's a bad approach in general.

I think probably time to stop telling people they are doing a bad job hunting and start doing some hunting yourself

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I could see voting Space. I really don't like this Awaclus wagon. As far as I can tell, he's just being Awaclus. I've yet to see a compelling reason as to why this is scum!Awaclus and not town!Awaclus.

[Swowl]

I could see voting Space. I really don't like this Awaclus wagon. As far as I can tell, he's just being Awaclus. I've yet to see a compelling reason as to why this is scum!Awaclus and not town!Awaclus.

Can you expand on why Space?

[Skumpy]

I thought we had 2 days left. I was wrong. Lynch is in 22 hours. It feels like everybody at this point is really apathetic, myself included.

My top picks remain 2.7 and Awaclus, and I don't think another wagon is going to get big enough to rival those.

[Swowl]

Ok here is the thing - there was like a majority of a day window when E was at L-1 today when Awaclus could of voted off Andrew onto E and hammered. We are 6-2 right now. If skum could of hammered a Town E in that spot and bring the game to 3-2 to start the next day i feel like they would of.

This forces me to give quite a few points to the three players off of E! At the time, as well to think the most likely scenario is skum E!

This comes off as a case against E!, which i guess it is, but it is intended as a case for Town Awaclus.

I will be around for the majority of the day until deadline, but let it be known i am not seeing a huge Awaclus case at this point.

We also need to accept that if we lynch incorrectly we move to win or go home so hedging the section towards a player we don’t lean that much from worries me slightly.

[Skumpy]

Ok here is the thing - there was like a majority of a day window when E was at L-1 today when Awaclus could of voted off Andrew onto E and hammered. We are 6-2 right now. If skum could of hammered a Town E in that spot and bring the game to 3-2 to start the next day i feel like they would of.

This forces me to give quite a few points to the three players off of E! At the time, as well to think the most likely scenario is skum E!

This comes off as a case against E!, which i guess it is, but it is intended as a case for Town Awaclus.

I will be around for the majority of the day until deadline, but let it be known i am not seeing a huge Awaclus case at this point.

We also need to accept that if we lynch incorrectly we move to win or go home so hedging the section towards a player we don’t lean that much from worries me slightly.

But town wouldn't hammer needlessly halfway though a day no matter how convinced they are (or at least I wouldn't, as we all know), so why would scum? That puts more suspicion on themselves for no reason. And where is the 3-2 coming from? The vig might not shoot (or get roleblocked) or they might shoot scum.

There's also the possibility that 2.7 is teamed with somebody not voting him. There's also the possibility that there's already 2 scum on his wagon. A lot of wine in this game, I keep reminding myself. Honestly, there probably is something in what you're saying that gives us a clue to the alignments...but I can't do more analysis of that right now. I'll also be around for deadline, but I don't know how much time I'll have to make good cases.

I do like the point that lynching 2.7 gives more info than lynching Awaclus, regardless of alignment, but if I'm alive for a final lynch, I don't want my decision to come down to "Is everybody besides Awaclus town or no?" because I know that if I can make a case against anybody no matter how flimsy, I'd probably vote them over Awaclus. There's gain to be had from getting rid of a coin flip. And more importantly, there's not much of a case for him being town besides him not voting someone whose alignment we don't know.



Btw if anyone needs a distraction from the affairs of mafia and life in general: somewhere in my response above, a delectable treat is embedded (after you concatenate all the words together).

[2.71828.....]

If think we learn quite a lot from lynching awaclus

[Awaclus]

If think we learn quite a lot from lynching awaclus

Yeah, we learn that you have spent the whole game pushing a town lynch.

[schadd]

Vote count 3.3

AndrewisFTTW (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, IDontPlayThisGame
2.71828... (3): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone
Awaclus (2): Skumpy, 2.71828...

not voting (0) :

with 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. day 2 ends wednesday, november 29th at 01:00 forum time. about 14 hours

mod notes

• it is very not thanksgiving

mod quotes

@schadd, can I post voting snapshots like that with colour next time? I know some mods are iffy about it so I wanted to be sure before doing so. They're much easier to interpret with all the green and red, though...

green and red are no problem. just don't use my luscious 21B35F

[SpaceAnemone]

I think probably time to stop telling people they are doing a bad job hunting and start doing some hunting yourself

A) I was pointing out something you were doing that was damaging to town if not given the proper caveats, because anyone not aware of quite how incomplete Skumpy's list of pairings was might accidentally forget to read scummy people.

B) My lists of reasoning about which people are scummy, and quoted vote evidence about e.g. why I find Andrew much less scummy now and why I think e's behaviour fits with a scum narrative, are exactly my methods of scum-hunting.

[SpaceAnemone]

Just to be clear: I will be leaving my vote on e unless anyone posts a very powerful argument otherwise in the next 5 hours. After that I'll be asleep till after deadline, because late-night US-time deadlines are just impossible for anyone east of the Atlantic.

I don't think Andrew is a good lynch candidate for today because he and Teproc coincided on multiple wagons, and I haven't seen scum sheeping each other to that extent before.

I don't think an Awaclus flip is nearly as informative as as e flip, because we have a lot more interaction in e's case, and while I'm not counting right now (I'm just checking in here really quickly before leaving work for the night), I think e has moved his vote around more. In e's case, we have people accusing him and people who're less excited at his lynch. For Awaclus, I think nobody minds much, but those of us who've played more with him are more aware of how much his typical behaviour can infuriate and lead to an easy-ish mislynch wagon for scum to push.

[gkrieg13]

vote: e

People are right about him being at L-1 for too long today.

[gkrieg13]

L-1 btw.

[2.71828.....]

Also, please don't excuse awaclus as being town if he doesn't hammer me, he is just staying in meta. He latches onto a read and doesn't let go, no matter how town they are

[AndrewisFTTW]

If think we learn quite a lot from lynching awaclus

Yeah, we learn that you have spent the whole game pushing a town lynch.

He emerges!

[AndrewisFTTW]

If think we learn quite a lot from lynching awaclus

Yeah, we learn that you have spent the whole game pushing a town lynch.

He emerges!

And you have too, for whatever that's worth.

[Skumpy]

For Awaclus, I think nobody minds much, but those of us who've played more with him are more aware of how much his typical behaviour can infuriate and lead to an easy-ish mislynch wagon for scum to push.

So what does he do differently as scum? Saying someone is an easy mislynch doesn't make them town. And the wagon hasn't been pushed, that's the problem.
 

vote: e
People are right about him being at L-1 for too long today.

Again, not seeing the problem here. Why would one speed up the day when there's still time for discussion, no matter how pointless and fruitless?


But now it's sounding like I'm defending 2.7, which is not my intention. I'm fine with either Awaclus or 2.7 but the first is clearly not happening. And after quickly rereading 96 2.7 posts...this is a vote I was always fine with, and am fine with now. Rolefishing could be a shot to communicate with scum partner before inevitable doom. If you're going to find a scapegoat to get you off the chopping block, Awaclus is a good option. And I want to think faust is right when he said somebody townread me early, which is not something I'd expect from somebody who'd never played with me before.

Intent to do my first hammer at some point in the nearish future. I'll give 2.7 some final words.

[2.71828.....]

Look at awaclus and space carefully tomorrow

Hammer stats are a real thing.

[2.71828.....]

If think we learn quite a lot from lynching awaclus

Yeah, we learn that you have spent the whole game pushing a town lynch.

He emerges!

And you have too, for whatever that's worth.

Well, it's worth content

[2.71828.....]

Guess what you will get from awaclus tomorrow. Nothing. Guess what you will get from me?


Tunnelling space or awaclus.....


Or not. Depends on the lynch.

[Skumpy]

What do you mean by hammer stats?

[2.71828.....]

What do you mean by hammer stats?

How many hammers you have. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14311.msg547022#msg547022

[Skumpy]

I mean, it's not exactly updated, but I see your point. But he doesn't hammer as town either, so what makes him scum? POE? (I'm apparently just playing devil's advocate for both sides for Awaclus at this point).

[2.71828.....]

I mean, it's not exactly updated, but I see your point. But he doesn't hammer as town either, so what makes him scum? POE? (I'm apparently just playing devil's advocate for both sides for Awaclus at this point).

Oh, I didn't even look at Awaclus's stats. I was purely referring to you increasing your hammer stat

[Skumpy]

I mean, it's not exactly updated, but I see your point. But he doesn't hammer as town either, so what makes him scum? POE? (I'm apparently just playing devil's advocate for both sides for Awaclus at this point).

Oh, I didn't even look at Awaclus's stats. I was purely referring to you increasing your hammer stat

I'm not a hammererer but a high hammer stat doesn't tell the whole story if hammers work out correctly for the most part. And I'm not too worried about the prospect of seeing my hammer stat going up in any event.

I think I'm about ready to put you under. This is a weird feeling. Anything else you wanna tell us?

[Skumpy]

Well, alrighty then.

Vote: 2.718281828

[Swowl]

welp. That's that then. Sorry if you are town E!...

[2.71828.....]

Also, please don't excuse awaclus as being town if he doesn't hammer me, he is just staying in meta. He latches onto a read and doesn't let go, no matter how town they are

[2.71828.....]

Skumpy's hammer is towny though. I don't blame anyone but myself for this lynch. I had about as crappy a D1/D2 as I have ever had

[2.71828.....]

welp. That's that then. Sorry if you are town E!...

If you weren't town I would call this scummy

[2.71828.....]

Why don't I flip already? Schadd is slacking off.

i was at improv practice u number

[Swowl]

welp. That's that then. Sorry if you are town E!...

If you weren't town I would call this scummy

lolz

[schadd]

thread clucked even though it's not thanksgiving

[schadd]

D3 Final Vote Count

AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, IDontPlayThisGame
2.71828... (5): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, Skumpy
Awaclus (1): 2.71828...

not voting (0) :

with 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch. lmao it said "day 2 ends..." the whole time

[schadd]

that is pagetop for some.

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/2YZ_lIpG1XQ

[instrumental]

2.71828... has been lynched! he was a vanilla townie!

night 3 starts now and ends thursday, november 30th at 23:00 forum time

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/VVP3g1-Wq_0?t=28s

well i may look like i'm crazy, i should know right from wrong
see me comin', throw your man out the door
ain't no stranger, been this way before

gkrieg13 has been killed in the night! he was a vanilla townie

https://youtu.be/XRLeH9SkziU?t=1m29s

tryna tell you baby, what you're tryna do
tryna love me baby, love some other man too
bring it on home, bring it on home

Awaclus has been killed in the night! he was a vanilla townie

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/0bcIjILqORM?t=46s

you've been learnin, n baby i been learnin
all the good times, baby, i've been y-yearnin
way down inside, honey you need it
i'm gonna give you my love, ah, i'm gonna give you my love, ah

Day 4 Starts!

Vote count 4.0

not voting (5) : Skumpy, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 4 starts now and ends thursday, december 7th at 23:00 forum time. thread unlodged.

mod notes

• it's lylo!

[Skumpy]

My first Lylo!

I always got all the scantron True/False questions wrong when I didn't know the answer. Good to know those days are not over. Especially fantastic to know when literally everybody I accused and voted for yesterday is now dead and town.

schadd, are we not getting roleflips anymore?

lmao whoops

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think it's time for the Vig to claim. What we know to be in the game is: Town, Town, Vig, Scum, Scum. Unless scum is lynched, scum wins regardless of whether the Vig finally hits scum. If scum is lynched today and the Vig hits town, scum wins. Therefore, I think it's best to get an IC for today since having the Vig shoot clearly hasn't gone well. Should scum counterclaim, it's a 50-50 lynch. I'm willing to take those odds.

[Skumpy]

@schadd That's better.

Ok, well good news everybody! I am* the vig!





*really wishing I could truthfully claim to be

PPE: Well... yeah! Those are correct assessments.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Damn, I was hoping no one would have responded before I could post this. I'm checking with schadd about something so let's hold off on Vig claiming for a moment.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Okay, check with schadd finished. I stand by what I said before.

[Skumpy]

Damn, I was hoping no one would have responded before I could post this. I'm checking with schadd about something so let's hold off on Vig claiming for a moment.

Then why would you say, "I think it's time for the vig to claim"? if you didn't want me to claim? Maybe I should've waited before unclaiming, but I get trigger happy at the start of the day (and not trigger happy at night aaayyoooooo).

Btw, I really want to give the vig a hard time for doing almost as much damage as scum....but I was kind of cheering on both victims (Raptor and whoever was shot last night) to die the next day, so I'm in no position to judge.

Okay, check with schadd finished. I stand by what I said before.

Do you wanna share?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Damn, I was hoping no one would have responded before I could post this. I'm checking with schadd about something so let's hold off on Vig claiming for a moment.

Then why would you say, "I think it's time for the vig to claim"? if you didn't want me to claim? Maybe I should've waited before unclaiming, but I get trigger happy at the start of the day (and not trigger happy at night aaayyoooooo).

Btw, I really want to give the vig a hard time for doing almost as much damage as scum....but I was kind of cheering on both victims (Raptor and whoever was shot last night) to die the next day, so I'm in no position to judge.

Okay, check with schadd finished. I stand by what I said before.

Do you wanna share?

Because I thought of it after I posted my first post. It was a scenario in which everyone is dead at the beginning of D6, but I forgot a couple rules that would make it a scum win AND keep it from happening.

[Skumpy]

Damn, I was hoping no one would have responded before I could post this. I'm checking with schadd about something so let's hold off on Vig claiming for a moment.

Then why would you say, "I think it's time for the vig to claim"? if you didn't want me to claim? Maybe I should've waited before unclaiming, but I get trigger happy at the start of the day (and not trigger happy at night aaayyoooooo).

Btw, I really want to give the vig a hard time for doing almost as much damage as scum....but I was kind of cheering on both victims (Raptor and whoever was shot last night) to die the next day, so I'm in no position to judge.

Okay, check with schadd finished. I stand by what I said before.

Do you wanna share?

Because I thought of it after I posted my first post. It was a scenario in which everyone is dead at the beginning of D6, but I forgot a couple rules that would make it a scum win AND keep it from happening.

Oh I get it. I didn't think about that, I just saw "it's lylo!" in the DayStart post and got excited/terrified.

So actual good news: I should have time this week to read through and make a good decision decision at the best of my capabilities, don't blame me when I'm wrong! But I'm probably not going to start until the vig(s) reveal because double the work is no fun and I'm currently feeling lazy.

[Swowl]

@schadd That's better.

Ok, well good news everybody! I am* the vig!





*really wishing I could truthfully claim to be

PPE: Well... yeah! Those are correct assessments.

OK.. it is late here lol.. just verifying.. you are saying that you are in fact NOT the Vig?

[Swowl]

also, further note upon thought... too late for you Skumpy I guess, but we should think about the repercussions of claiming here. I am inclined to say it is a good idea to make an IC, but like before we do it does anyone see a downside to it? The only thing I can think of is that it calls points out who the Vig is. However, that taking that person out of the lynchpool does seems to outweigh their imminent NK given we are in LYLO.

[Swowl]

I think it's time for the Vig to claim. What we know to be in the game is: Town, Town, Vig, Scum, Scum. Unless scum is lynched, scum wins regardless of whether the Vig finally hits scum. If scum is lynched today and the Vig hits town, scum wins. Therefore, I think it's best to get an IC for today since having the Vig shoot clearly hasn't gone well. Should scum counterclaim, it's a 50-50 lynch. I'm willing to take those odds.

Bold point above: "We know it to be: town, town, vig, skum, skum".

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was NOT a skum slip and that  "town, town" is not the same as "VT, VT".

The Setup is (Strikes are known to exist):

N2 weak neighborizer - 1
(N1 ascetic) 3-shot tracker - 1
vigilante - 2
odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2
jailkeeper + rolecop (same target) - 3
ascetic double motion detector - 3


That is 6 known "skum points". Setup states that if the roll is under 4 or over 8, there will instead be a re roll. Therefore, there cannot be a MD. This actually leaves some options. I am going to go ahead and say that we do not have the good fortune of Neighborizers, as I imagine they would of claimed yesterday. But we could still have a:

odd night doctor, even night neapolitan - 2 (giving skum the full whammy of 8 points).

I think if we do a claim we should do a full claim TBH. Same logic as IDPTG stated, just (no offense intended) unless I am missing something, I think this is a better plan. If one of us is a Doc/Neo, given that the set up is: Town, Town, Skum, Skum, TownVig... creating one IC is good, and Skum can only kill one person per night... So wouldn't giving us the potential of creating 2 ICs and narrowing the lynch pool to 3 players, as opposed to 4 players, be better?

Actually like a real question. This is honestly only my 3rd game of Mafia, so I am completely open to the fact that I could be missing something.

[Skumpy]

@schadd That's better.

Ok, well good news everybody! I am* the vig!





*really wishing I could truthfully claim to be

PPE: Well... yeah! Those are correct assessments.

OK.. it is late here lol.. just verifying.. you are saying that you are in fact NOT the Vig?

I guess I technically never said I wasn't the vig. Technically 

also, further note upon thought... too late for you Skumpy I guess, but we should think about the repercussions of claiming here. I am inclined to say it is a good idea to make an IC, but like before we do it does anyone see a downside to it? The only thing I can think of is that it calls points out who the Vig is. However, that taking that person out of the lynchpool does seems to outweigh their imminent NK given we are in LYLO.

Why is everybody so concerned about knowing who the vig is? Like, is it even a question? We gain out of not knowing who the vig is...what, town votes for the vig and scum piles on? Sounds like a fantastic plan to me. The WORST case scenario is 2 people claim vig. Still brings it down from 6 to 4 possible teams.

I think it's time for the Vig to claim. What we know to be in the game is: Town, Town, Vig, Scum, Scum. Unless scum is lynched, scum wins regardless of whether the Vig finally hits scum. If scum is lynched today and the Vig hits town, scum wins. Therefore, I think it's best to get an IC for today since having the Vig shoot clearly hasn't gone well. Should scum counterclaim, it's a 50-50 lynch. I'm willing to take those odds.

Bold point above: "We know it to be: town, town, vig, skum, skum".

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was NOT a skum slip and that  "town, town" is not the same as "VT, VT".

Um....I wouldn't be so quick there. Although this is the opposite direction of the last slip I wondered about when IDPTG suggested knowledge of another PR. I'm not stupid enough to vote now, at any rate.

Setup stuff: Like...really? I've done all this already! I made sure to be first and early in day 3 so I could brag to all my friends about how I'm calculating mafia setups accurately in my limited free creative time (which is actually probably closer to the truth than you might think).

And a Doc/Neo is by no means an IC. I'm not even sure I'd be willing to give any extra towncred to him or her, though claiming couldn't hurt.

Look: If we mislynch we lose. The more info to prevent that from happening today...yes please! I'm also new, I don't see the mystery about claiming.

Btw, saying 'we' feels extremely awkward now since I'm addressing 2 scumbags.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I think Skumpy is scum.

[Swowl]

I think Skumpy is scum.

Share with the class?

I was actually reading his opening to the day as rather towny-ish.

[Skumpy]

I think Skumpy is scum.

Lylo!
The vig!
More PRs?
Vote histories!
Theories on the D3 lynch!
Theories on the N4 kills!

So much to talk about it, and that's your first post? If you're going to incorrectly accuse me, at least give reasons so I can defend myself. I'm trying to start a conversation and all I get is "um, nope. Skum!!!!" It's frustrating. You of all people should know this and know better than to throw out instant accusations based on nothingness, which gives me pause to consider...

I think Skumpy is scum.

Share with the class?

I was actually reading his opening to the day as rather towny-ish.

...and yet it's the people who townread me who worry me more, which is weird because basically every single dead town person townread me.

It's too early to read. Even if you think I'm town, I'm delighted and flattered, but still, take your damn time! I'm going back to null on everybody now, not going to cast any judgments until I've looked through 3 days worth of voting evidence. Preferably after any and all vig's claim so I don't have to do it twice.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I think Skumpy is scum.

Share with the class?

I was actually reading his opening to the day as rather towny-ish.

The whole joking around about him possibly being the vig (he's in a good mood it seems), him questioning why a vig claim is even important to seem pro-town (scum counterclaiming would be dumb and a vig claim doesn't really hurt scum much), and him not being nearly as self deprecating as I would expect. Even earlier in the game he wasn't acting how I expected him to, though I wrote it off as him being a little more experienced. In hindsight it seems like the times he was second guessing himself could've been just an act.

Gotta reread and check votes and such tomorrow.

PPE:

I think Skumpy is scum.

Lylo!
The vig!
More PRs?
Vote histories!
Theories on the D3 lynch!
Theories on the N4 kills!

So much to talk about it, and that's your first post? If you're going to incorrectly accuse me, at least give reasons so I can defend myself. I'm trying to start a conversation and all I get is "um, nope. Skum!!!!" It's frustrating. You of all people should know this and know better than to throw out instant accusations based on nothingness, which gives me pause to consider...

I think Skumpy is scum.

Share with the class?

I was actually reading his opening to the day as rather towny-ish.

...and yet it's the people who townread me who worry me more, which is weird because basically every single dead town person townread me.

It's too early to read. Even if you think I'm town, I'm delighted and flattered, but still, take your damn time! I'm going back to null on everybody now, not going to cast any judgments until I've looked through 3 days worth of voting evidence. Preferably after any and all vig's claim so I don't have to do it twice.

^And this is so not normal town!Skumpy.

[SpaceAnemone]

Urgh. Too many deaths. If I didn't know better, I'd think I'm scum for pushing e too much during our previous game-day. The guy just always seems scummy, even when I try to be conscious of how I always think he's scummy.

Interestingly, IDP is the only person left alive who was off-wagon on the e lynch. (Just an observation for now, not an accusation).

I don't like that Andrew is still alive when Awaclus and gkrieg aren't... I thought Andrew looked townier than either of them yesterday, and while one of those two was the misguided vig kill, one must have come from scum, and I think a townie-looking person like Andrew would have been a high-priority kill for scum, unless of course he's one of them.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think the vig claiming here is fine, if they want to own up. I'm also fine with them holding off till Monday or so, if they want to observe how everyone else is interacting and force everyone to make reads and stuff, given that chances are the vig will be tonight's NK once they're outed. The benefit of an IC in this situation is in reducing the lynch pool, rather than leading town in a claim or other trust-based exercise, so I don't think having them revealed for more than a couple of days before the deadline buys us a lot, except for targeting town's reads a bit better. And this is the sort of stage in the game that I think is really hard as scum, because they've got to come up with decent and consisted arguments that don't incriminate themselves, so making them jump through all the hoops isn't actually a bad plan, much as it means extra homework for the rest of us.

Claims of another role are not so useful at the moment, because unlike for the vig, we have no evidence that another role is in the game, and it's now too late to take a risk to test out any claim.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think if we do a claim we should do a full claim TBH. Same logic as IDPTG stated, just (no offense intended) unless I am missing something, I think this is a better plan. If one of us is a Doc/Neo, given that the set up is: Town, Town, Skum, Skum, TownVig... creating one IC is good, and Skum can only kill one person per night... So wouldn't giving us the potential of creating 2 ICs and narrowing the lynch pool to 3 players, as opposed to 4 players, be better?

Actually like a real question. This is honestly only my 3rd game of Mafia, so I am completely open to the fact that I could be missing something.

The problem with a full claim is that we have no reason to believe anyone claiming to be a role other than Vig. At this point in the game, scum knows what's left. Therefore, if there's no Doctor/Neapolitan or Neighborizer, scum can safely claim to be one or the other. I have no reason to believe any of those claims since they're extremely easy fake claims for scum right now.

Interestingly, IDP is the only person left alive who was off-wagon on the e lynch. (Just an observation for now, not an accusation).

It's almost like I thought his wagon that grew after the "role-fishing" was dumb, scum driven, and gave scum a great place to hide. "What, he was town?! But he was trying to out the Vig! You can't blame me for this one!" It's like an Awaclus lynch.

[Skumpy]

The whole joking around about him possibly being the vig (he's in a good mood it seems), him questioning why a vig claim is even important to seem pro-town (scum counterclaiming would be dumb and a vig claim doesn't really hurt scum much), and him not being nearly as self deprecating as I would expect. Even earlier in the game he wasn't acting how I expected him to, though I wrote it off as him being a little more experienced. In hindsight it seems like the times he was second guessing himself could've been just an act.

Gotta reread and check votes and such tomorrow.

Default-assume-Andrew's-town-so-my-arguments-don't-fall-on-deaf-ears

Let me break my thought process of 18 hours ago down for you. First off, I was in a great mood yesterday, best mood in several weeks to be honest. I got the start time of D4 wrong, so I checked the forum for no particular reason and lo and behold, the day was starting earlier than I expected. Oh look! Two deaths that aren't me, I get to keep playing! Also two town. Also two people I'd accused. Normally, I probably would've deprecated more. But my start of the day was different than yours because you showed up knowing the roles of the dead town. I did not, and had to ask schadd, so I had more important business to take care of than to console myself on an awful game thusly far. Kept a post shorter than I normally would in order to get the request in before schadd went to bed. He answers, and I get excited because the day becomes much easier. Knock on wood. That's as good a place to springboard the day from as any. Even though apparently nobody else wants to claim right now. I like ICs and I like good direction. I get the Space argument, I can live with waiting on the rest of the claiming. But it's better the vig claim too soon than they claim too late.

What is suspicious, I grant you, is that I didn't acknowledge the fact that I'm still alive somehow. The reason for that is simple: I meant to. Then I forgot. On that note: I don't know why I'm still alive. But if Andrew's town, it's working.

Not self-deprecating: I'm already extremely deprecating. But I think my first game is different in 2 ways. First, jitters. I was TERRIFIED all game long that I'd blow it. After I managed to embarrass myself severely 3 posts in,  it was a sign that I needed to check my ego and accept that I was going to have a brutal time figuring stuff out. There ended up being some truth to that, and some nottruth. Second reason: Time. First game was summer, I could afford to get invested and really want to win. But I mentioned yesterday that everyone was starting to get apathetic, myself included. We managed like 5 pages or 2.5 schaddpages worth of content between 8 people and 8 days. I simply have not had the time to comb through days over and over again, and therefore, I guess I don't feel as awful when I hit the fan. But this is the day that's going to be different.

Questioning why a vig claim is important: I don't even understand this at all. I'm not questioning a vig claim, I'm saying a vig should claim. I did not say scum counterclaiming vig is stupid of them. It would actually be a smart move because the alternative is 3 potential scum teams, not 4. And I really don't care about me giving scum ideas: they're smart, they could've done the math themselves. And a vig claim does hurt scum. A lot. Where are you getting this from?


@Town!Andrew: I know I cannot pull off a good scum. It would be an absolute disaster. Maybe I underestimate myself. Probably am. But I can't imagine myself making fake reads, can't imagine myself behaving towards teammates with the appropriate attitude, and can't imagine myself not getting lynched by day 2 at the latest. You clearly have some doubts that I'm scum. That right there should tell you all you need to know. If you're 99% sure I'm scum, then I'm town.

(Confession time: Remember my first post when I said I was coming up with Skummy Skumpy posts beforehand that felt genuine as town to me? Those last 3 sentences were one of them. Turns out I did a good job with it, because it is a geuine sentiment.)

^And this is so not normal town!Skumpy.

What's not normal is me being accused after Day 1. Or at least an accusation that I'm worried will have drastic consequences. But there's a 50/50 you're scum and I don't need to worry that much.

[Skumpy]

Will get started on the rereads later.

[Swowl]

OK, let the re reads begin. In attempt to keep it from being a novel, I am going to summarize by player and day. My plan is tomorrow to do vote history analysis and actually come up with some solid connections. For now, this is what I have:


IDPTG
Day 1:
- Does the whole set up inference thing for a while. Standard. On and off a bunch of people early. Raptor, me, and then sits with Andrew for a while (for lurking).
- Halfway through day really starts getting on Raptor about a number of reasons, not bad ones, but really doesn't want to let it go.
- Switches opinions on Andrew when the double wagon starts up. Eventually L-1s Dylan towards the end. Calls XXR out for skummy hammer.

Day 2:
- Starts up with more set up related role hunting stuff.
- Gets back on the Raptor train halfway through the day.
- Switches to Space and then is VLA through deadline.

Day 3:
- Starts with a similar point he made on D1 regarding read lists. States to think that there will be much to deduce from them later in the game again. Stuff about how it is crafted by skum (based on knowledge of alignments) vs paranoid by Town because of unknown information. While I agree with this theory, I have yet to find anything where he actually applies his own theory towards a read in this game. Doesn't really "tell me" anything, just kind of odd.
- Really does not like the Awaclus wagon. Could go for Space.
- Vote wise he pretty much sits on Andrew the whole day until deadline.

Day 4:
- Still early but points would be..
- Wants to do vig claim. IDK how to interperate interactions. It seems thought out, which could be from a skum or town perspective. The idea he brings forth of limiting to 50/50 with a counter claim really seems thought out. Additionally, pointing out the obvious flaw in a mass claim - being that it would be easy to fake claim - comes off at least to me as if he could know what skum has already so why get all that info out. On the other hand it could also be what he said, that is - it is easy to fake claim so there is no point in doing it because there is no reason to put merit into it.

All in all for IDPTG - #1 move around player on my Skum-To-Chum list. Was very strong reading him as Town before, and now with the Andrew votes and the start to Day 4 he has moved up to suspect #1 for me.

[Swowl]

Skumpy

Day 1:
- Usual Skumpy start. Now I am basing that off of all of one other game played with him, but he does the set up break down thing and block posts and etc.
- Literally accuses like... everyone at one point or another. Which to me comes off as towny. But then....
- Gets on XXR, then on Dylan/Andrew split, and then like 2 hours out does that whole weird unvote thing. Brings the 5-5 split to a 5 Andrew - 4 Dylan. Dunno what to make of this. We know now that Dylan was Town, so I think it looks mildly suspicious that he didn't go for voting Andrew instead of an unvote or just not changing at all. But more than anything it really comes off as towny, because if he were skum buddies with Andrew I think the options were to get on the bus for Andrew or to stay on Dylan... Unvoting all together just reeks of uncertainty, and imo uncertainty a lot of the time can = Town.

Day 2:
- Opens with the "10 Questions" bit. Lots of different angles but the one he pursues is the Andrew Town vs Andrew Skum and what does that mean scenario.
- Does a huge re read list - gives lurkers a lot of credit, unsure of pretty much everyone, votes for XXR in the end.
- #696 comes off as skummy to me. I don't really have like a reason for it, it just like reads oddly and overly crafted.
- Claims he would Neighbor Faust, give me a huge town read. This is directly after the post where he ends with defending not giving town cred to anyone.
- More town points given to me, but more importantly, in this middle bit of Day 2, he makes a case for E!. I find this important, because I think that LL switching out to Teproc caused a lot of confusion. Teproc landed on me, but also made a huge case for E!. It speaks town cred to Skumpy imo that he beat Teproc to the punch in regards to making a case vs E! (even though E! was town).
- Spends the end of the day kind of defending the LL/Teproc switch and saying it makes him not want to vote Teproc all that much. This goes on over quite some time to be fair, and then he eventually puts Teproc at L-1.
- Should be noted that 2 days in a row he was the first one to point out the vote count mistakes prior to the "accidental" hammer.

Day 3:
- Usual Skumpy start to day. Looks over the probabilities of roles, talks about the pros and cons of claims, etc.
- #868 stands out for the opening line where he talks about the uncertainty of "one skum being able to carry out multiple actions". while the rules are clearly stated in the set up, I do feel like Skum!Skumpy would of been aware of the situation.
- Starts to show like genuine frustration at the amount his unvote on day 1 was being looked into by everyone (specifically Space and myself).
- Another big re read post. Ends it by going back on the E! train.
- When the E! wagon gets to L-1 he unvotes. States he is still good with it (and of course he was the hammer in the end). Goes to GK in the interim.
- Starts up the whole Skum Team pairing thing while he is on GK and we are at a stall. Comes off as towny, trying to skum hunt when people are being quiet.
- Starts to make a case for Awaclus, then goes with the "more info to be gained from E!", and eventually hammers E!.

Day 4:
- Opens with the relaxed posts about Vig/Not Vig. Andrew is reading as skummy, and I see his point, but I don't want to disregard all the previous town reads I have on him from previous days because of this.
- And lastly, I think that I totally disagree with his recent post regarding the fact that he is still alive today. If anything I would of expected him to wake up alive today. I feel like Skum could use the string of odd vote patterns and responses to set him up quite well. That being said, he could also be skum and that is why he is alive, and the odd vote patterns are in fact actually skummy

All in all for Skumpy - I am just confused. He is like my definition of my middle man at this point. I can find good reasons and bad reasons for like all of his actions. When he talks he seems to genuinely try to be skum hunting the majority of the time, but when he votes, given the info we have now of flips, it seems extremely well calculated.

[Swowl]

Space

Day 1:
- Quiet as usual in the beginning.
- Votes for Andrew early on and sticks there for the day.
- Whole bit in the middle where they are fixated on how Andrew conducts themselves in game.
- Comment about getting myself, Skumpy, and XXR mixed up because of Twin Claim or whatever. I didn't read into this as much as some, but worth putting in here.
- Makes a side case for E!. Never votes off Andrew though.

Day 2:
- Usual probability breakdowns of potential roles and such.
- Skumpy calls Space out in regards to getting us mixed up and how it seems odd because of different play styles.
- Called out for not being "normal self". This is equated to not posting lots of information with confidence and etc. Space defends by dismissing it and saying that is not their style really and they tend to stick to the numbers.
- #706 - This feels like an extremely forced attempt to contribute something after being called out on not posting enough content. Additionally, I tend to find it skummy whenever any calls out people for thinking in the "if I were skum mindset". I have never quite understood that. I feel like thinking in the "if I were skum" mindset is one of the more effective ways of using WIFOM in this game. When people accuse others because of it, it just comes off as an easy out to me.
- Finishes with more summarized re reads. Points out potential flaw in Neighbor target claiming plan far too late for it to matter.
- Is not around at deadline and ends day not voting.

Day 3:
- #898 feels more like a Town!Space to me. Good content, good observations. Obv lots of time put into this read. Lists out not only who was on what wagon, but also at what position then switched on and off. TBH I saved it and posted to my QT so I could reference it in my own reads down the road.
- Puts E! at L-1
- Another good post regarding voting patterns right after the E! vote.
- Posts most recent reads in #956. All skum reads are currently dead.
- Gets on me and Skumpy for trying to create skum teams. TBF there was merit to their reasoning as it was an incomplete list.
- Gets on me for suggesting that someone that is not me re reads my skum pairings for the sake of being un bias. This came off as extremely out of character and overly aggressive for Space. Continues on to tell me not to waste town's time with requesting they read further into these things.
- Ends the day still voting for E!. Not willing to switch. Does not like the idea of an Awaclus lynch both based on play style and potential information gathered from their flip.

Day 4:
- Opens with my exact thoughts to the day which were "it is odd that Andrew is alive".
- Follows up with thoughts on claiming. Towny thoughts too imo. No rush in doing the vig claim, though it should be done. No need to potentially claim other roles because they are unknown etc etc.

All in all for Space - I have jumped around a bit in my read here. Null to start, skummy in the middle, but has consistently gone up and up in towniness with only minor suspicions for like 2 full game days now.

[Swowl]

Andrew

Day 1:
- Spends a lot of the beginning of the day giving people a hard time for their posts. Skumpy for block posting, Awaclus for being what I now to believe "just Awaclus", general skum hunting tactics of people. While it came off to me D1 as a little overly direct, I suppose being so is an effective measure of skum hunting in its own.
- When he speaks for most of the middle it is in regards to his play style and how people are taking his comments. Ends with the whole bit where he claims we are all voting for him for being overly harsh and doing the whole "it is no fun to get lynched Day 1 all the time" thing.
- Votes for me mid day for being "overly helpful" and then immediately states he does not think I am being helpful.
- Really really spends a lot of the day trying to wagon people on to me. It is unsuccessful and as the wagon builds on him, he switches his vote to Dylan.
- End of the day continually refuses to give a defense as to why he is town. States the only case against him is that he is "playing different" from other games and that shouldn't be held against him.
- Points out that he is at L-1, then like 5 posts later when asked to claim, after E! switches from Andrew to Dylan, responds with "normally people only claim at L-1"...
- Ends the day on the Dylan lynch.

Day 2:
- Not there at first and when he comes back he has the back and forth with Awaclus that ends in him "tagging out".
- Jumps on Skumpy's point of out Space's twin claim confusion and votes for Space.
- For the Neighbor target he picks me, which I found odd.
- Gives a brief skum to chum list and then votes for E!
- States that he would be OK with Teproc vote as well. Hour passes, where he is online, it is pointed out that there is a mis count, and then he "accidentally hammers" thinking he is voting Teproc to L-1. As Teproc flipped skum, I don't really know what to make of this, and as I mentioned after it happened, I am inclined to believe this was a genuine accident. I think.

Day 3:
- Starts with again another reached vote. This time for me based on things not seeming "genuine"... again.
- Then posts some blank stuff, followed by a E! read with a vote switch to E!
- Again, as his wagon picks up alongside E!'s he starts pummeling E! pretty hard. First for reads, then for role fishing.
- The mid day wagon drops off of L-1. Andrew continues to try to push for the E! lynch. Kind of a "why are we postponing the inevitable" vibe thing.
- Ends the day on the E! lynch.

Day 4:
-Again, opens with skum theory based on non-genuine/out of character post content. This time for Skumpy.


All in all for Andrew: OK so he is tied with IDPTG pretty much for my top pick. I don't want to go into details right now why he is #2 to IDPTG, but I will later in the day. His theme throughout the game seems to be targeting players not based on skummy actions but on ways players say things trying to spin them in a skummy way. Additionally, he disappears for large gaps, temporarily filled with scattered empty posts, throughout the game. Life is life, work, family, whatever, so that on its own is not skummy to me I guess. However, he does have this habit of coming back and steaming tons of actual posts specifically only when wagons seem to be picking up on him (see day 1 and day 3). I also, as previously stated, find it very odd that he is alive today.






So all that was a lot of words in a row. But essentially Skum to Chum =
IDPTG
Andrew
Space
Skumpy

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm liking the Swan posts, though I need to re-read actual words (as opposed to voting histories) in more detail to be sure I agree with his points.

Today has been shattering.. some of you can have a good laugh at me, but I hadn't been swimming in months before last weekend, and this weekend an hour doing lengths in the "medium speed" (as fast as I can go!) lane was enough to wipe me out for the rest of the day, when combined with walking home from the pool (~40 mins) and a 1.5-hour christmas carol rehearsal on the way :-P Tomorrow I'm hosting a party, so if I'm not posting by 10am forum time, I might not be on till really late (like early evening forum time), or Monday daytime.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think the vig claiming here is fine, if they want to own up. I'm also fine with them holding off till Monday or so, if they want to observe how everyone else is interacting and force everyone to make reads and stuff, given that chances are the vig will be tonight's NK once they're outed. The benefit of an IC in this situation is in reducing the lynch pool, rather than leading town in a claim or other trust-based exercise, so I don't think having them revealed for more than a couple of days before the deadline buys us a lot, except for targeting town's reads a bit better. And this is the sort of stage in the game that I think is really hard as scum, because they've got to come up with decent and consisted arguments that don't incriminate themselves, so making them jump through all the hoops isn't actually a bad plan, much as it means extra homework for the rest of us.

Sorry, why are we waiting on the Vig claim if you think the Vig should claim? All that does is give scum extra time to decide if it's a good idea to fake claim. If scum is going to fake claim, I want as much time left in the day as possible to sort it out, not some 2-days-before-deadline scramble, especially given how slow the game is.

So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and claim VT, and I think it's time the Vig steps forward because any more Vig shots is a bad idea. The game only continues if we lynch scum, so there'll be a 66% chance of missing on a random shot and, should you miss, it's a scum victory.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

One benefit for me and the other townie of the Vig claiming: of the 3 people whose alignments are unknown, two are scum so any team of two is guaranteed to include scum. This assumes no counterclaim. So I really don't see any reason to delay this.

[AndrewisFTTW]

One benefit for me and the other townie of the Vig claiming: of the 3 people whose alignments are unknown, two are scum so any team of two is guaranteed to include scum. This assumes no counterclaim. So I really don't see any reason to delay this.

Not really because you're not an IC. So if/when the vig claims that still leaves a lynchpool of 4, barring a counterclaim of course.

Oh and I'm the vig by the way. Sorry for the sucking and all that.

Also, I can't read any of you guys whatsoever so that's cool. Right now I'd like to lynch Space but I still want to reread. No time this weekend though.

[Swowl]

One benefit for me and the other townie of the Vig claiming: of the 3 people whose alignments are unknown, two are scum so any team of two is guaranteed to include scum. This assumes no counterclaim. So I really don't see any reason to delay this.

Not really because you're not an IC. So if/when the vig claims that still leaves a lynchpool of 4, barring a counterclaim of course.

Oh and I'm the vig by the way. Sorry for the sucking and all that.

Also, I can't read any of you guys whatsoever so that's cool. Right now I'd like to lynch Space but I still want to reread. No time this weekend though.

When you are back from your weekend, please elaborate on why Space.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

One benefit for me and the other townie of the Vig claiming: of the 3 people whose alignments are unknown, two are scum so any team of two is guaranteed to include scum. This assumes no counterclaim. So I really don't see any reason to delay this.

Not really because you're not an IC. So if/when the vig claims that still leaves a lynchpool of 4, barring a counterclaim of course.

I meant for the remaining townie who isn't the Vig. Given that you're the Vig and I'm not going to lynch myself, my lynch pool is now DatSwan, Skumpy, and Space. That's what I meant by a three person lynch pool. Yes, yours is still four, but everyone else's got smaller.

[Skumpy]

Hey all. Wanted to apologize twice.

First, for lying and being slow these last couple days. I promise tomorrow, I'll put it all together.

Second, for my last post (or second-to-last). It was honest, but I don't wanna be known as Salty Skumpy. It was childish of me to get that defensive. Even if my head's lying in the guillotine today with the blade about to fall down and thwack me, I promise to at least make the effort to be more accepting of my fate and first loss.

One benefit for me and the other townie of the Vig claiming: of the 3 people whose alignments are unknown, two are scum so any team of two is guaranteed to include scum. This assumes no counterclaim. So I really don't see any reason to delay this.

Not really because you're not an IC. So if/when the vig claims that still leaves a lynchpool of 4, barring a counterclaim of course.

Oh and I'm the vig by the way. Sorry for the sucking and all that.

Also, I can't read any of you guys whatsoever so that's cool. Right now I'd like to lynch Space but I still want to reread. No time this weekend though.

I knew you were going to be vig. Just how I'd expect my luck to work out, both because Andrew was going for me and because Andrew disapproves of sheep, which is likely what I'll succumb into. But good to know my defense worked though! I'm still pleasantly amazed by how effective they are.

@your sucking: Well...yeah. Apology not totally accepted yet, but at least there's a 66% chance (as I know, anyways) that you've improved based on that post.

Will do my rereads tomorrow, and look more carefully through Swan's reads. Goal will be to knock out 1 of the 3 potential teams and guarantee a scum lynch vote. Also, because it's something else I keep forgetting to bring up: I'm now happy I didn't finish Skumpy's-(patented)-whatever-I-called-it-before since it was not going to produce a correct result.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also, I can't read any of you guys whatsoever so that's cool. Right now I'd like to lynch Space but I still want to reread. No time this weekend though.

Huh.. I actually hadn't had you figured for the vig at all. Is anyone counterclaiming?

Lynching me would be a mistake, because I'm definitely townie. Right now, my gut says Skumpy, but I also have to do re-reading. I'm not free tonight, but I'll find some time in the next 24 hours.

Some slightly-advanced notice: I'm going to be VLA on a business trip from Wednesday to Friday. I'm out of the country, so I'm not even sure I'll have phone posting as a possibility, though both my hotels allegedly have wifi. This assumes you manage not to lynch me in the meantime, in which case the game will be over before I go.

[Skumpy]

First, for lying and being slow these last couple days. I promise tomorrow, I'll put it all together.

I lied again. T minus a couple hours, or something like that.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, I can't read any of you guys whatsoever so that's cool. Right now I'd like to lynch Space but I still want to reread. No time this weekend though.

Huh.. I actually hadn't had you figured for the vig at all. Is anyone counterclaiming?

Lynching me would be a mistake, because I'm definitely townie. Right now, my gut says Skumpy, but I also have to do re-reading. I'm not free tonight, but I'll find some time in the next 24 hours.

Some slightly-advanced notice: I'm going to be VLA on a business trip from Wednesday to Friday. I'm out of the country, so I'm not even sure I'll have phone posting as a possibility, though both my hotels allegedly have wifi. This assumes you manage not to lynch me in the meantime, in which case the game will be over before I go.

This? This just makes me want to lynch you.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, I can't read any of you guys whatsoever so that's cool. Right now I'd like to lynch Space but I still want to reread. No time this weekend though.

Huh.. I actually hadn't had you figured for the vig at all. Is anyone counterclaiming?

Lynching me would be a mistake, because I'm definitely townie. Right now, my gut says Skumpy, but I also have to do re-reading. I'm not free tonight, but I'll find some time in the next 24 hours.

Some slightly-advanced notice: I'm going to be VLA on a business trip from Wednesday to Friday. I'm out of the country, so I'm not even sure I'll have phone posting as a possibility, though both my hotels allegedly have wifi. This assumes you manage not to lynch me in the meantime, in which case the game will be over before I go.

1) Everyone has posted since the claim. If town were going to counterclaim, they would have done it. The only reason to wait would be to sow confusion, which only helps scum.

2) The rest of the post is "I don't have time and I'm going to be VLA, but don't lynch me because you'll lose if you do." The game ends if town is lynched. We all know that. The fact that you feel the need to reiterate it...it doesn't read genuine to me. Why would town say that? Why not just give your VLA notice?

[AndrewisFTTW]

First post, vote for LL (Teproc):

Good morning all!

Vote: LL Great to be in a game with you again!

How's things? Feeling scummy this time round?

An early LL read:

LL is being quiet mostly. His talking at corss-purposes to Awaclus about the weak neighbourizer make me think they're not a scum team.

Some early LL "reads"

well, I can see why people are voting for me, but what is really strange is that some of them stated scumread on another person and then voted for me, weird. I think Dylan is scum here and I want to vote: Dylan as I don't remember if I am still doing that. I would even say DatSwan is one of the partners.

Skumpy is really giving me towny vibes as well as faust, though in the case of faust I will indeed think twice. Space is as always null on D1. I am sorry I was not very active, I struggle to do things D1, like, always.

Also I think that IDPTG have some bias thinking I am scum in every game by the way, I am really sorry about your lynch in Lost, I needed to survive but I still felt bad.

I prefer Dylan or DatSwan lynch here I think.

^This could point to DatSwan being town. He says Space is null.

More reads from Space:

In that case, who else is on your "not-definitely-town" list?

Everyone other than me. But at your end of it I guess Swanraptorpy and maybe e is creeping that way. Dylan, faust and Galz are in middle ground. IDP and LL are at the townier end of things. I can't do anything about reading Awaclus for now, and I want to see more from gkrieg before judging.

I think e is a problem for me because I'm beginning to feel he's maybe a bit scummy, but that usually happens if he's being a town with wildly different ideas than I have.

^IDP and LL are their towniest.

Sidenote:

OK so with the deadline move, if we play down to the wire I will be at work. I will still have limited access, but all the same here is this FWIW:

Towny:
XXR
Galz
Skumpy

Null/Towny:
Faust
GK

Null/Skummy:
Awaclus
Dylan
Space

Skummy:
Andrew
IDPTG
LL
E!


And, with those re considerations, plus I just don't see me coming off as skummy right now so I kind of don't get it - vote:Andrew
I don't want it to come off as OMGUS, even though I know it will. I just believe a Town!Andrew vote at this point on someone more likely to be lynched. Vote for me just feels off. I don't really like the Dylan lynch anymore either.

I think if we lynch Space and they're scum then DatSwan is cleared.

That's it for D1.

[AndrewisFTTW]

LL starting the day (again) with a Space vote:

I like IDPTG’s amount of scumhunting and think it is sincere. I’d like to vote: Space for not posting anything of substance at all

Space reads:

I was going to try to do a targeted re-read of everyone tonight, but I'm only through the first four in the list so far, and I'm feeling too tired to focus on more already, so I'll put what I've got here. Of these four, Skumpy feels the most scummy, but I was going through in sign-up order, so I haven't reached Andrew yet, and I'm still feeling the wagon there from D1.

e (46 posts): Lots of empty early stuff, but really active at the deadline. Wants to push IDPTG a lot. Joins the Dylan mislynch quite close to deadline when people are already starting not to be available for the night. Tentative townread. Though his most recent post says he thinks I'm probably town, so maybe I subconsciously got buddied, though it's not like I actually remembered that at the start of my re-read!

Skumpy (44 posts): I still find the "If I were skum" mindset a bit worrying. Also, what's with all that "don't want to vote Swan for reasons I'm not talking about" stuff? Wow, he writes long posts.. I think I've mostly only skimmed things of his before. Very few townies in his reads post at #245, and he misses out IDP and me completely for some reason. Very big on over-explaining his votes: could be a scum thing or could just be a verbosity thing. Made a bit of a show of being willing to switch to Andrew at the end of D1, but actually voting and staying on Dylan. Why is his top scum read at #484 a secret? The unvote at #490 was extra-super-unhelpful because it took a potential vote out of the game at a time when I and probably others on my side of the Atlantic were struggling to be present and about to have to call it a night. Comes into D2 with fishy-looking distributions over the cost numbers for the combinations of possible town roles. Admist at #672 that he hasn't given a lot of towncred... could be something possible scum-buddies mentioned in the night, though.

LL/Teproc (44 posts): Hard to get a read on LL. He seems genuine enough, but equally I could convince myself there's a little hint of the LL I saw when he and I were scum together, so I'm not townreading him as hard as I feel like I otherwise could. Let's see what Teproc says.

DatSwan (63 posts): Lots of early setup speculation founded on something incorrect. Then a bunch of middle posts that seem focused on Faust and Raptor kind of oddly. He gets more helpful towards the deadline, with town-to-scum lists that don't miss people off, and do offer plenty at the town end of the spectrum. He has a confusing number of posts where he seems to be misquoting or something.

PPE 1: Cool, now both of e's two most recent posts support me :-)

^Hedgy on Teproc.

Teproc calling Space town:

Space (3): gkrieg, Swan, ANdrew
Andrew (3): IDPTG, Space, Skumpy
LL (2): Galz, Dylan
Dylan (2): faust, LL
faust (2): Raptor, Awaclus
IDPTG (1): e

Seems pretty safe to bet at least one scum has 2 votes on them.

Is there any reason for this assumption other than basic probability?

Most of it is the basic probability yes (though I have no idea what it actually is, if Space wants to have fun with that), but also what the game felt like rereading it. It fels like there was a certain tension: I think the game would have felt completely dead if all wagons were on town. Harder to tell rereading of course.

Re: e, I think I'm pretty good at reading e, and he usually gives me towntells, especially lately. You'll recall that I had a pretty strong town read on him all game in M108, and here he is giving me nothing. Even on day 2, he just basically feels like he's done nothing this game, and I think that's more of a scum!e trait. Town!e, even if he's not active, is impactful when he posts. He just hasn't been here.

That being said, I think the scummiest player around is Swan. He feels super similar to M108, especially on D2 with the big analysis posts that come to not much.

vote: Swan

In other news, ANdrew, Skumpy and Space are town. Raptor and Awaclus are complete cyphers, faust is somewhere between scummy and null, gkrieg is kinda townie.

Who am I missing ? Right, IDPTG. Townie, I think, but not overly so.

That's D2.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Final vote counts:

thread looooocked

D1 Final Vote count

AndrewisFTTW (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Dylan32 (7): faust, LaLight, Galzria, AndrewisFTTW, 2.71828..., IDontPlayThisGame, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1): Skumpy

with 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. day 1 ends wednesday, november 8th at 21:00 forum time, in like 0 seconds

mod notes

• phone

Vote count 2.6

SpaceAnemone (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Teproc (6*): faust, gkrieg13, DatSwan, 2.71828..., Skumpy, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (2): Teproc, Xxraptorslayer96

not voting (1) : SpaceAnemone

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. day 2 ends sunday, november 19th at 00:00 forum time, in a few minutes

mod notes

• andrew has the option to rescind the hammer vote since i did the vote count erroneously. if he doesn't within uh 5 minutes it'll just count.
• note the first mod quote: please put votes where it's easy for me to find them!

mod quotes:

Schadd, DatSwan is on Teproc (I think)

noted. for the future: i missed datswan's vote because it was at the end of a line in the middle of a big post. to make it easier for me to find your votes, please put them ideally at the start of a line and at the start or end of a post.

D3 Final Vote Count

AndrewisFTTW (2): Awaclus, IDontPlayThisGame
2.71828... (5): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, Skumpy
Awaclus (1): 2.71828...

not voting (0) :

with 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch. lmao it said "day 2 ends..." the whole time

The D2 final vote is interesting. The only not confirmed town on the Teproc lynch are DatSwan and Skumpy. I think one of them is likely to be scum and then that would leave Space or IDPTG. I think we should start with an off wagon lynch, so I want to reread IDPTG as well.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Quote fail. This did not mean to be quoted:

The D2 final vote is interesting. The only not confirmed town on the Teproc lynch are DatSwan and Skumpy. I think one of them is likely to be scum and then that would leave Space or IDPTG. I think we should start with an off wagon lynch, so I want to reread IDPTG as well.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Scum!Space had a similar AtE post at the end of D4 in NM10 (which was also the second to last day. D4 ended in a no-lynch and D5 ended with Space's lynch).

I feel best about no lynching today and committing to lynching Space if I'm alive the next day. So if I don't die tonight, I'm voting Space tomorrow.

Well since you want to no lynch and SA doesn't want to vote for themselves, I think we have to no lynch.

Do you feel good about lynching today?

It's fine, doesn't really matter to me.

Gah! Seriously people, you're not even trying! :-(

Are either of you actually going to post any cases, or just sleepwalk through this and end up as mafia-food? Or whatever it is scums want the bodies for...

Coincidentally, Andrew was the mod for that game.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Where is Space using AtE here?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Where is Space using AtE here?

In this game or that one? I also might be using the phrase incorrectly.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Basically, I equate Space's repeated "if you vote me, the game ends" with that post's "mafia-food" bit. Whether that's AtE is up for debate.

[SpaceAnemone]

It's not an appeal to emotion, it's just a statement of fact that it's lazy to try to cast me as scum when I've been just too busy to post a lot.

I think the posting I've had time for has been on-point at least to some extent. My trawling of the voting records at least showed up seemingly correctly that Andrew is townie in D3. I thought that was compelling enough that I was suspicious that scum kept him alive. Further consideration tells me he's also more likely than the average townie to be alive now given that he's been the source of two town kills himself and was never going to be the vig target.

Anyway, more thoughts incoming.

[SpaceAnemone]

Now we're down to just three possible pairings, so pair-wise analysis works much better.

1) Swan-Skumpy
 * It kind of makes sense that these guys would get upset about me lumping them together if the actually are the scumteam.
 * Swan is voting for Skumpy from #63 up until he unvotes at #122.
 * They're both on the Andrew wagon in places 2 and 3 from #356 to #470 where Skumpy wavers. Might be slightly non-partnerish, given how much our scum team must be avoiding each other in general.

2) Skumpy-IDP
 * Skumpy and IDP are both on the Andrew wagon at #309, but IDP (who started it) moves off pretty much as soon as Skumpy joins.
 * At #672, IDP and Skumpy are the only two on the Raptor train. Non-partnerish.

3) IDP-Swan
 * IDP votes Swan from #103 to #153
 * There are pretty much no other instances of their voting histories intersecting at all.

[SpaceAnemone]

Individual evidence/partner tells for each with Teproc
 
Swan:
 * He's briefly 3rd on the Andrew wagon behind Teproc in D1 (#331-#356).
 * He's the only non-conf-town (to me) person on the Andrew wagon at the end of D1.
 * Votes Teproc at #635, but then when the wagon is at 3 poeople, he bails and moves to Awaclus at #684. Skumbells.
 * Teproc votes him at #753, and stays there till voting e at #757. Could be giving Swan cover to join the lynch in a good position.
 * Swan votes Teproc from #780 to the lynch.
 
Skumpy:
 * Is on Teproc in the L-1 position for the lynch.

IDP:
 * Immediately follows Teproc onto the Raptor wagon at the start of D2, but then Teproc shifts to me only 5 posts later.
 * Briefly on the same wagon as Teproc #702-#753.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think my vote states read makes me strongly favour Swan as the best scum candidate. The individual evidence on voting alone definitely leans that way, and the two possible Swan pairings seem stronger than the third possible pair, leading me to think he's a better bet overall.

Just for completeness, I think I'd favour IDP as his partner, but I'd want do a targeted re-read of both to look for interactions/mentions/responses to one another, and I don't have time for that right now.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Individual evidence/partner tells for each with Teproc

IDP:
 * Immediately follows Teproc onto the Raptor wagon at the start of D2, but then Teproc shifts to me only 5 posts later.
 * Briefly on the same wagon as Teproc #702-#753.

I tend to start D2 voting for my top choice from D1. Which was raptor. However, this game, since I didn't remember LaLight having much of a scumread on raptor but he was suddenly willing to vote him, I assumed LaLight was the Tracker/Motion Detector and saw something, so I was very willing to vote. And then LaLight wasn't the Tracker/Motion Detector, so that's also a thing. So yes, I followed LaLight, but that was because I mistook his vote for a PR and would have voted there anyway. As for when he moved his vote, I assumed he didn't want to be too obvious.

[Swowl]

Basically, I equate Space's repeated "if you vote me, the game ends" with that post's "mafia-food" bit. Whether that's AtE is up for debate.

What does AtE stand for in this context?

[Swowl]

Now we're down to just three possible pairings, so pair-wise analysis works much better.

1) Swan-Skumpy
 * It kind of makes sense that these guys would get upset about me lumping them together if the actually are the scumteam.
 * Swan is voting for Skumpy from #63 up until he unvotes at #122.
 * They're both on the Andrew wagon in places 2 and 3 from #356 to #470 where Skumpy wavers. Might be slightly non-partnerish, given how much our scum team must be avoiding each other in general.

2) Skumpy-IDP
 * Skumpy and IDP are both on the Andrew wagon at #309, but IDP (who started it) moves off pretty much as soon as Skumpy joins.
 * At #672, IDP and Skumpy are the only two on the Raptor train. Non-partnerish.

3) IDP-Swan
 * IDP votes Swan from #103 to #153
 * There are pretty much no other instances of their voting histories intersecting at all.

* It kind of makes sense that these guys would get upset about me lumping them together if the actually are the scumteam. - literally the only comment I ever made on this was defending you saying I thought people were reading too far into your comment. In THIS context, please don't lump me in with Skumpy. He did make a deal out of it with Teproc and Andrew and whoever, I absolutely did not.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Basically, I equate Space's repeated "if you vote me, the game ends" with that post's "mafia-food" bit. Whether that's AtE is up for debate.

What does AtE stand for in this context?

I was going for "Appeal to Emotion" but people seem to disagree on whether it's applicable. I felt that my emotions were appealed to.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

It's not an appeal to emotion, it's just a statement of fact that it's lazy to try to cast me as scum when I've been just too busy to post a lot.

Who was doing that?

[Swowl]

Individual evidence/partner tells for each with Teproc
 
Swan:
 * He's briefly 3rd on the Andrew wagon behind Teproc in D1 (#331-#356).
 * He's the only non-conf-town (to me) person on the Andrew wagon at the end of D1.
 * Votes Teproc at #635, but then when the wagon is at 3 poeople, he bails and moves to Awaclus at #684. Skumbells.
 * Teproc votes him at #753, and stays there till voting e at #757. Could be giving Swan cover to join the lynch in a good position.
 * Swan votes Teproc from #780 to the lynch.
 
Skumpy:
 * Is on Teproc in the L-1 position for the lynch.

IDP:
 * Immediately follows Teproc onto the Raptor wagon at the start of D2, but then Teproc shifts to me only 5 posts later.
 * Briefly on the same wagon as Teproc #702-#753.

I think my vote states read makes me strongly favour Swan as the best scum candidate. The individual evidence on voting alone definitely leans that way, and the two possible Swan pairings seem stronger than the third possible pair, leading me to think he's a better bet overall.

Just for completeness, I think I'd favour IDP as his partner, but I'd want do a targeted re-read of both to look for interactions/mentions/responses to one another, and I don't have time for that right now.

I don't like either of these posts. Not just because they are targeted at me, but because it is incomplete work and I find that strange from Space.

First off, it is clear it was gone into with a bias for making a case against me, not just looking at information. I am the only person that has any noted interaction for D1 at all. Complete disregard of the fact that while I am the only D1 "non confirmed town" on Andrew, that also Skumply obviously was not on anyone.

Additionally, as the only day we have actually lynched Skum was D2... The fact that Space had like no vote history is annoying. IRL stuff happens so like I am not holding lack of play against in any way, but it is kind of a large part of a puzzle that we cannot use to piece stuff together.

I am strongly leaning towards a Space-IDP duo. Since some seem to believe that Space flipping skum would absolve me, I am going to go ahead and update my list to say I would be fine lynching IDP or Space.
I prefer IDP, because I think that it is more likely.

Day 1) i am in fact NOT the "only non confirmed town on Andrew". Space was also on Andrew. IDP was on Dylan. Since we now know they were/are both town, makes sense for Skum to be split over 2 town wagons.

Day 2)  Nothing to be gained from duo pair because space didn't do anything.

Day 3) Again Space and IDP split over what we now know to be 2 Town wagons.

[Swowl]

also just pieced together Space's need to point out "i am the only non town confirmed player on Andrew" but a better point might be that we have to assume that there were 2 players on one of the wagons (or with a skumpy non vote, at least 1 player on each wagon).

Andrew = Swan and Space
Dylan =  IDP and Andrew (Obv, Andrew is removed from pool. Also, LL/Teproc here as well)
None = Skumpy


So. Just one day vote end, but focusing on this for a moment -

1) If Skumpy is skum = Myself or Space likely last skum
2) If Skumpy is town = IDP + either Space or myself as last skum

3) If Swan is town = IDP and either Skumpy or Space
4) If Swan is skum = probably either IDP or Skumpy

5) If Space is skum = IDP or Skumpy
6) If Space is town = IDP and either Skumpy or Swan

7) If IDP is skum = probably either Skumpy/Swan or Skumpy/Space
If IDP is town = guess kind of a toss up between Space, Swan and Skumpy (most likely Space or Swan, then looking at skumpy)


The Skumpy unvote kind of messes up everything, draws a lot of attention. Makes me think it is a townier play on that end. The rest of it kind of evens out. But then there is D2. The lack of vote from Space along with IDP being rando camped on Space with his vote.

And then there is D3 - with Space and IDP being again on separate town wagons!

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I think Space or IDP is where we should be looking.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I think Space or IDP is where we should be looking.

I'm okay with this.

[Skumpy]

Definitely don't agree with Space that scum's going to try to distance themselves around lynches. Usually? Sure. Always? No way.


Reading, important thoughts relating to teams as I go. Super important in bold. Please open another tab so you can follow along. Or just townread me and spare yourselves the agony, I don't care.

#61: As an aside to dead faust: 2/3 correct. It's passing I suppose. Was wrong though about scum supporting me. Then again, so was I.

#66: The Space/LL banter. Not gonna try to read into that.

#92: Space tests the water with me. Good way for scum to distance themselves around, as Space keeps preaching, since nobody had started on me yet.

#97: The Swan-setup question, which IDPTG quickly pounces on. Fake setup misunderstandings are definitely not something I would or could do as scum, but I'm not going to extend that to scum!Swan. I'd agree with Awaclus in #107, that by itself doesn't tell much. #115 could very well be partnery stuff. Check the pronouns (what, was I no good for you? Also since nobody ever asked me, it/it/its is also acceptable in my case), hint to a newbee buddee that it's too much, get in a justified bus vote. If not teamed and only 1 is scum: justified votes are music to scum's ears, but it's not a terrible accusation from TOWNIDPTG. Nobody else piles on for what that's worth.

#111: Swan talks setup and misunderstands it. Another confusion so soon? Would he play that dumb? ...I still don't know. There's no way its genuine if he's scum, definitely Space and probably LL or IDPTG would've broken down the setup in N0. schadd did change the setup later on, could've been Swan already planning from way before the game started? I really don't know, I can definitely believe the setup change was overlooked. Would Swan put that much work into something that he knew was wrong? I'd really hope he wouldn't waste the time to do that. So I'd lean town on this, but maybe I underestimate the will to win. A Swan's gotta do what a Swan's gotta do.

#122: Unvotes me when there's no pressing need to (Galzria, #137). He explains it...eh. I also wonder why town!Swan would come after me again when he was after me the whole game our first time. I knew I was going to be much more cautious with respect to my scumreads from before. For good reason!

#128: People criticized IDPTG wanting to do a reread so soon, I didn't really understand. When it's easy to get caught up, you might as well.

#144: I didn't notice the error the first time around, so I'm not going to put much weight on this. I need to keep reminding myself that with the partner interactions left, there's always going to be a scum there, so maybe I should be looking for something, like SCUMIDPTG skipped over the post hoping for something juicier to use against somebody? That was pulled out of nowhere.

#150: I mean, not far off from me my first game. Could've been inspired by me ( ). Could've fallen into the same trap.

#153: IDPTG's convinced it's genuine. I suppose it's easier to give in when you're looking for 3 scum out of 12 than 2 out of 3. If I was scum bussing, I know I'd ride that out for much longer. Or it could be, like, get your partner to talk and be loud, then go after the middle-lurky people, like Galzria said later.

#176: Reeeallly agree with this. Which worries me. Scum wants to be sensible.

#183: DatSwan went to a conference. That's sketchy (I promise I won't do that again!)

#216: SpaceReads: Null towards LL. Null towards DatSwan. Null towards IDPTG. Great. The comment on IDPTG (wanting to vote through inactivity, not feeling that) kinda feels like a cutesy team post. I don't know what I'm saying.

#224-225: IDPTG willing to go to LL. Doesn't, even when more attention comes his way later (more = Dylan). Plans to put if off until D2. Leans town on DatSwan. In the words of Cha Cha Slide, "REVERSE, REVERSE!" (that takes me back). Does Scum throw one partner under the bus one post, give the other town cred after accusing them earlier. I'm cool with that logic.

#230: I could see this as partnery. I'm giving nobody the benefit of the doubt apparently...

#239: But THAT does not seen right to do. Good sign for nonteam IDPTG/Space.

#242: Maybe there is some mustard behind the threat after all. D1 unneeded bus against a 6+ PR's is a risk. Do need to remember LL isn't actually voted for by IPDTG.

#251: And that's a shot against Swan/IDPTG. IDPTG's willing to vote LL, Swan does it first inviting IDPTG to join him. Note that IDPTG does not, in fact, join. Scum Swan would be basically forcing his partner to join him because boy, that would look bad if LL flips and IDPTG doesn't participate immediately.

#260: Vote, don't prod!

#267: Swan switches away from LL, whose wagon is growing...onto Space, and acknowledges willingness to vote for IDPTG too. So ScumSwan was voting a scum, and is willing to vote another. I could see a Swan/Space team, switch from the scar y wagon to the safe wagon. Get Dat Bus in Dat Swan.

#274: LL making small talk with IDPTG. Willing to vote Swan. Null on Space. There's 3 partners there. I don't know where though.

Random: Only 2.7 has really pushed IDPTG. I never like those above suspicion, which is why I'm so self-loathing.

#331: Swan acknowledges he could go for IDPTG. Doesn't. I'm null on this at this point in the day, the lynch wasn't happening..

#338: That Space mixup post again. My favorite. Now there are possibilities for the Space/Swan team.

#340: One scum in scum reads vs 4 town in scum reads and both scum in town reads? Ewwww. No to the Space/IDPTG team. Or town Space is really wrong.

#356 Swan puts 1 scum in scum reads, splits last 2 potential scum betewen null/scum and scum. Think I like the Swan/Space team a little more than Space/IDPTG.

Overall: As an aside, IDPTG pushing Raptor. Turns out to be incorrect, but I see it as justified. Could go either way.

No need to push each other once it's clear it's going to be Andrew or Dylan. Now seeing that Andrew didn't want to claim to save himself unless absolutely necessary. Makes sense, I remember being awkward when people were trying to get my role out of me. Speaking of which, since I never actually claimed VT, just not-vig: I'm VT. It's a lot less fun than having a role, but it's much less stressful too.

In the end, 2 scum on 1 wagon, 1 scum on the other. Nothing doing there. Space and Swan being together isn't making me discount that team more.

Order of teams after D1 in order of suspicion:
1) Swan/Space
2) Space/IDPTG
3) Swan/IDPTG

I'm really glad I waited until Andrew claimed.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Well this is fun. We have four people semi-scumreading Space.

Quote fail. This did not mean to be quoted:

The D2 final vote is interesting. The only not confirmed town on the Teproc lynch are DatSwan and Skumpy. I think one of them is likely to be scum and then that would leave Space or IDPTG. I think we should start with an off wagon lynch, so I want to reread IDPTG as well.

Andrew lumping me and Space together as a 50-50.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I think Space or IDP is where we should be looking.

DatSwan doing the same thing.

Order of teams after D1 in order of suspicion:
1) Swan/Space
2) Space/IDPTG
3) Swan/IDPTG

Skumpy putting Space in his top two scum teams.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don't think we should totally discount a Swan/Skumpy team though as this would be a perfect spot for them to be.

[Swowl]

Hey off note, on note thought I just want to clear here - We are like in silent agreement that we are not voting until the end for obvious reasons? Or what is the situation there? Do we declare when we are like really really OK to vote. Do we clear it with Andrew because he is IC? What is like the "protocol"? I have never been in this situation before.

[Swowl]

I don't think we should totally discount a Swan/Skumpy team though as this would be a perfect spot for them to be.

Whatever, I obviously would say this as skum too, but don't waste too much time on this idea. I am not skum this game.

[Skumpy]

Day 2 time

#576: That townie Swan opening post. Maybe not as townie as I once remembered, and a lot less willing to give the benef o'doubt here with 3 left. But I'll keep it in mind.

#608: Swan, LL, IDPTG all talking around XX. Not accusatory enough for me to discount a team of 3, but it does have a weird feel to it. IDK!

#621: The second XX vote by 2 scum early. I'm really not going to read into this that much. XX was not towny day 1, IDPTG leaving that just because LL is already there would actually be more scummy, I feel. But it's also scummy to stay, naturally. Or at least untownie.

#626: A really weird post from by-now-really-distracted LL. Like's IDPTG"s scumhunting, it's sincere....then goes to Space? Trying to distance self from IDPTG off Raptor? Trying to throw in some busses? Like, one of them is scum, so at least one of those is right. But I don't know which.

#635: Swan votes scum for being on Andrew, might have one other scum in his lynchpool of 3. Again, an early bus. A little more serious because a faust read is serious. Still too early to make judgment calls I think.

#646: Space explains the newbie mixup. Doesn't push me much one way or the other

Discounting Space/IDPTG banter about setup. I would hope IDPTG naturally screwed up, because it's pointless if he didn't (watch it be a brilliant play for some mystery reason).

#671: IDPTG sneaking in some LL defense.

#683-684: Swan and Space both discounting the LL post that gkrieg harped on so much that would lead to LL's lynch. In retrospect, yeah that's a scummy shrugman. Both gloss over it (I feel that this kind of reading is super advantageous, but super timewasting). Swan even goes away from the vote.

#702: A nice casual vote of IDPTG onto Space, when both are under the radar.

#705: Space with reads of me (a still incorrect one), LL (a really weak townread that allows the possibility of future bussing) and Swan (reads him as 'really confused' - I kinda wanna see scum!Swan having done stuff intentionally and town!Space discounting it as idiocy)

I still haven't really read Teproc's reads. Not now, because I'm looking at teams. Is the line I'm going to use to defend my inertia.

#723: Swan saying he finds LL scummy. I wanna say this is a prime bus, but I keep assuming everybody's scum. If I go ahead and say Swan's town, then yeah, good job Swan. So null? This feels like a waste of time now.

Neighborizing targets:
faust: Andrew (Awaclus)
Swan: Raptor (faust)
Skumpy: faust (Space)
gkrieg: faust (Space)
2.7: IDPTG (Swan)
Raptor: faust (Swan)
Space: 2.7 (gkrieg)
Awaclus: faust (Space)
Andrew: Swan (gkrieg)
IDPTG: Teproc (gkrieg)
Teproc: gkrieg (faust)

We haven't actually discussed this at all. Here's a thought though. Let's assume a neighborizer would've stuck to the plan of neighborizing top alive target. I don't read too much into who scum says they'd neighborize. Scum kills faust (almost certainly) to blow up as many neighbor pairs as possible, not knowing if there's a neighbor or not. Here's the question: who gets roleblocked N2? What neighbors might have found scum? Only two: Andrew and 2.7. And one of them was guaranteed to neighborize a scum, if they were a neighbor. Unless scum has a rolecop, which it looks like they don't (gonna assume no neighbors or Neos at this point), how might scum choose to roleblock? Probably based on doing what they can to stop a neighborizer from dying. Who's roleblocked? Not Andrew, since he shot. If the team is Space/DatSwan, wouldn't Andrew have been roleblocked so as to make sure the neighborizer doesn't find scum? If it's IDPTG/Swan or IDPTG/Space, Andrew's not getting roleblocked. So that's interesting....

....or Andrew ruins it in #743. Still if the only potential person who can die to scum is Andrew, no matter how unlikely...why would he not get roleblocked?

#753: Teproc ends his reads with a vote on Swan (Idk what came before, I don't care THAT much). One or no scum in top two?

#769: IDPTG inquiring about a Teproc/Space team..I kinda like a WIFOM here.

#775: Now its Swan willing to switch to Teproc when the going gets tough.

#780: And he does. If I have the votecount correct, it's Teproc 2, Space 2. A Swan/IDPTG team, Swan goes for Space here.

Space, IDPTG, nowhere to be in sight at the end. That's not much help to the vote or to me now.

New order:
1. IDPTG/Space
2. Space/Swan
3. IDPTG/Swan

It's weird, because I think Swan is scummy for being the only unknown left voting Teproc. But I also think his teams are the least likely at this point. And it's not like IDPTG and Space being away gives them towncred.

PPE IDPTG's stuff: I am reading it, but I'm going chronological. Later.

[schadd]

Vote count 4.1

not voting (5) : Skumpy, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 4 ends thursday, december 7th at 23:00 forum time. few days.

mod notes

• i love you more than the world can contain in its lonely and ramshackle head.

[Skumpy]

Day 3! I know you all love this

#864: (Apparently) I stand corrected. My first scumhunt, all for naught.

#882: Swan going after IDPTG for suspicious final voting. D1 turned out to be meaningless, we're not getting anything from that. D2...I still don't know. Is scum both off or is one on?

#886: I believe it, especially with the weird deadline time for Europeans. Not townie persay, but I don't think the missed deadline was intentional.

#897: Space gives IDPTG towncred. I remember in my first game faust (or somebody) saying scum is usually more decisive. So scum went out of their way that game to be as indecisive as possible. So not sure if I'm ready to appreciate IDPTG's wagon hopping.

#900's: Scum's chatting about Awaclus. I did it as town, so I don't care.

#905: Swan on Space's reads. IDPTG's town there too. Agreement on scummy gkrieg. Both cagey towards me. Other stuff. I forgot my conclusion.

#924: I kinda want to put my faith in 2.7 and go for Space. If I'm right, I pay my dues for going after him all game long. If I'm wrong, it's all his fault.

It's just a brawl over anyone that's not Space, IDPTG, or Swan. How comfy for 'em.

#955: Speaking of which, either town Space misses the mark or scum Space defends a teammate. Which is more likely?

#974: Partner code? Town frustration at somebody who is actually scum? Who knows (Space does!)

#992: Shots fired back to Space.

#993:: IDPTG willing to vote Space...who probably isn't getting lynched. Going to stay away from Awaclus, not that it matters much.

I'm tired.


#997: Smores

Well that accomplished nothing. Some back and forth between Swan and Space. That's it. Really bad 8-day day, which I hold blame related to.

Same order as Day 2, nothing pushing one way or the other strongly

1. IDPTG/Space
2. Swan/Space
3. Swan/IDPTG

[Skumpy]

Present:

#1031: IDPTG saying vig should claim. I do. He pauses.

#1039: Scum can counter claim if they want. They don't. The longer the day goes, the more time they have to think about it (though I'm sure claiming was discussed). Swan stalls here. Which I would say is scummy....but so does everybody else. I don't know why we waited.

#1040: Don't forget the slip. Never forget a slip.

#1047: Now that is overly pro-vig. Also, easier to read if we have one less suspect, I do think proposing to wait makes it harder.

#1048: Just for the record: the role-fishing had nothing to do with it for me, though I tried to use it to justify. For me, it was the overall lurkiness and general unhelpfulness. Apparently, it was out of character for him, so should we play again, I'll give 2.7 the benefit of doubt next time around.

#1052: Hey, you try a 10 question list from D1 that doesn't incorporate Andrew! 'After being criticized for not being towncred, I give towncred': this is true. I realized that not going out on a limb at all wasn't going to help. Better to be wrong than to never try at all, except in the cases of certain tests and competitions and also nuclear warfare. 'LL vote': This is my crowning achievement this game. It was 4-4. I'm on town, Teproc's scum. I flip. I get scum lynched. We go home happily and then Andrew shoots Raptor in the head (I assume)

Which reminds me: Andrew: Who did you kill and why? I don't know how that helps, but it's info!

(Still replying to Swan) 'On D3 role confusion': It wasn't that I was confused, I just didn't think it mattered because it doesn't matter if scum roleblocks their victim or not because they wouldn't be alive to do anything. Which I realize isn't true because a vig could've shot otherwise or a doctor could heal them.

'Skumpys-(patented)-something': I was trusting you and tunneling the Teproc-bus idea, so I dived in without really considering. Stopped because I didn't have time to finish, glad I did because it wasn't going to be accurate.

'Case for Awaclus': He wasn't getting lynched. So I moved my vote.

I feel like my votes are much less calculated than 105, but I'll take the compliment. 66% chance you're scum ignoring previous team reads...I don't know. All you have to do is give one townie towncred to get them on the mislynch. And I'm gullible, so I'm a good option.

#1059: No reaction to the vig claim?

#1069: A reminder that Swan should be my top pick, despite the team-reads, thanks Andrew! Then again, even if Swan is scum, I still need to pick right between IDPTG and Space sooner or later, doesn't do much to wait another day to figure it out.

Hey, AtE is my shtick! Although it's always been genuine so far.

#1075: The Skumpy-Swan team: This is in my defense, but still....just don't agree with scum ALWAYS keeping distance between each other. Please don't reevaluate this team though.

#1082: That is true. I haven't given Town points for Space being away a la D2, but I've never accused people of being scum for away either. I even defended Dylan many years ago when he was getting lynched.

#1083: See the end of #1052 above. Good on you if you're town! Emphasis on the if. Emphasis on the Emphasis.

#1084: I don't understand why everybody cares about the D1 wagons. Both were on town. Hooplah, congrats to us! My first time, all 3 scum were on the main wagon. I know it was 2 and 1 one way or another here, and that's the extent of my interest.

#1085: Hmm (that's my whole reaction)

#1087: This does scare me. A lot. Because there's a scum who's willing to vote Space. It is worth remembering a bus doesn't end the game for scum. And if Space is town, then I'm sorry for encouraging a sorry ending.

Now moving to quotes (idk why)

I don't think we should totally discount a Swan/Skumpy team though as this would be a perfect spot for them to be.

I agree

Hey off note, on note thought I just want to clear here - We are like in silent agreement that we are not voting until the end for obvious reasons? Or what is the situation there? Do we declare when we are like really really OK to vote. Do we clear it with Andrew because he is IC? What is like the "protocol"? I have never been in this situation before.

Ditto the confusion, (alarms are up again), but I'd say declare the vote, and don't start too late. Here's the thing: Andrew hates sheep. He's not going to do the first vote. I don't want to do the first vote because I'm allergic to responsibility (unless Andrew makes me and I have no other option). We have 3 days to deadline. Somebody has to take the plunge, preferably not me. But the longer the game goes on, the more advantageous for scum. I guess I'll get it started in like 48 hours if nobody else has yet.

[Skumpy]

I just ruined my entire Monday afternoon/evening/night accomplishing nigh.

All 3 suspects are likely to be scum, so when I talk, I need to assume the worst of them. It goes against my principles.

Final ordering was:
1. IDPTG/Space
2. Swan/Space
3. Swan/IDPTG

I started the journey neutral, I'm pretty sure some bias against Space kicked in at some point. Doesn't make it wrong though. The team is probably IDPTG/Swan knowing my luck/skill, I'd still be willing to vote for Space most.

Between Swan and IDPTG: the list suggests IDPTG should be more suspicious for me than Swan...but it's strange to talk to Swan trying to view him as town. I don't know how to explain that better. So Space first choice, and if I have to choose between the others, I can read back everything I just wrote and try to come up with something. Tentative don't wanna lynch IDPTG for now.

[SpaceAnemone]

Definitely don't agree with Space that scum's going to try to distance themselves around lynches. Usually? Sure. Always? No way.

This is why I go through systematically and try to note all the times across the whole game where the interactions happen, or point out where they're conspicuously missing. That way we expect to see some kind of a pattern on the whole.

What I've gathered from that exercise is that this scum team is really very reluctant to bus overall, because any possible pair of the three of you are giving us very little to look at.

#111: Swan talks setup and misunderstands it. Another confusion so soon? Would he play that dumb? ...I still don't know. There's no way its genuine if he's scum, definitely Space and probably LL or IDPTG would've broken down the setup in N0. schadd did change the setup later on, could've been Swan already planning from way before the game started? I really don't know, I can definitely believe the setup change was overlooked. Would Swan put that much work into something that he knew was wrong? I'd really hope he wouldn't waste the time to do that. So I'd lean town on this, but maybe I underestimate the will to win. A Swan's gotta do what a Swan's gotta do.

Okay, so at least two of you (that's "you" as in my three-person lynchpool) posted nonsense likelihood numbers in-thread earlier in the game, right? Was it Swan and IDP? I think IDP was the one who had everything rounding to 5% endings. However if you're town (that's Skumpy-you), then from your point of view either the scumteam has to be Swan-IDP, in which case they're both faking a misunderstanding of the numbers, or (again, just from your point of view) I'm scum with one or other of them, in which case one of them is going to great lengths with me to fake a misunderstanding and invent a load of bad maths. So why are you pointing at Swan and saying he's likely to be less scummy because of his corner of the misunderstanding?

[Sorry if I'm misremembering who posted what set of numbers; I don't have time to go check right this minute!]

[SpaceAnemone]

#974: Partner code? Town frustration at somebody who is actually scum? Who knows (Space does!)

Huh.. I thought I was really clear here, but both you and Swan have twisted/misrepresented it since. It was town frustration at someone else on the offchance they're town too, because if Swan is town, he's trying really hard but not necessarily pushing in a good direction. My conclusion now is that he's probably scum anyway, but at the time I was willing to believe he was just over-enthusiastic town.

To summarize, in post #971, Swan had gone through a whole list of possible scum pairings, and in it, he included the pairing that was him and me. Then he suggested for that particular pairing that "I guess someone who isn't me should look into this more", which is a ridiculous thing to suggest for something he must know for certain is not a worthwhile scum pairing to spend time on. If he's town, he knows for certain that it's a waste of time because he's town, so Swan-Space is impossible. If he's scum, he knows for certain I'm town anyway, but obviously there's at least some scum motivation for wanting to waste town's time by getting someone to spend time re-reading and commenting on the me-Swan interaction. At the time, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of alignment, so I just suggest that he might be trying too hard to broadcast towniness without actually thinking about how best to use our limited resources.

Anyway, I now think he's my top scum pick, so it's easier to go back and ask who in their right town mind would suggest that other busy townies spend time considering a particular scum pairing that contains themself as a known town and another player whose alignment they don't possibly have any way of knowing about.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think IDP was the one who had everything rounding to 5% endings.

I wouldn't intentionally post incorrect math. I got lazy when I was doing the numbers (I was at work and only had a phone to write things down on) and didn't adjust the probabilities properly, as you explained in your post refuting my numbers.

[SpaceAnemone]

It's not an appeal to emotion, it's just a statement of fact that it's lazy to try to cast me as scum when I've been just too busy to post a lot.

Who was doing that?

Sorry.. hadn't meant to leave this unanswered. I think the main way in which I've not played a strongly-townie enough game is that I've been too busy with work and life on the side. I couldn't do anything about the fact that most of the deadlines have been in the middle of the night for me, but the one I missed voting for entirely was at a point when I just wasn't engaged enough with the game because I had other stuff going on.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

It's not an appeal to emotion, it's just a statement of fact that it's lazy to try to cast me as scum when I've been just too busy to post a lot.

Who was doing that?

Sorry.. hadn't meant to leave this unanswered. I think the main way in which I've not played a strongly-townie enough game is that I've been too busy with work and life on the side. I couldn't do anything about the fact that most of the deadlines have been in the middle of the night for me, but the one I missed voting for entirely was at a point when I just wasn't engaged enough with the game because I had other stuff going on.

I get that real life gets in the way and yeah, those deadlines were horrible for EU players. But I still want to know who's saying you're scum for your lack of posts.

[Swowl]

#974: Partner code? Town frustration at somebody who is actually scum? Who knows (Space does!)

Huh.. I thought I was really clear here, but both you and Swan have twisted/misrepresented it since. It was town frustration at someone else on the offchance they're town too, because if Swan is town, he's trying really hard but not necessarily pushing in a good direction. My conclusion now is that he's probably scum anyway, but at the time I was willing to believe he was just over-enthusiastic town.

To summarize, in post #971, Swan had gone through a whole list of possible scum pairings, and in it, he included the pairing that was him and me. Then he suggested for that particular pairing that "I guess someone who isn't me should look into this more", which is a ridiculous thing to suggest for something he must know for certain is not a worthwhile scum pairing to spend time on. If he's town, he knows for certain that it's a waste of time because he's town, so Swan-Space is impossible. If he's scum, he knows for certain I'm town anyway, but obviously there's at least some scum motivation for wanting to waste town's time by getting someone to spend time re-reading and commenting on the me-Swan interaction. At the time, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt in terms of alignment, so I just suggest that he might be trying too hard to broadcast towniness without actually thinking about how best to use our limited resources.

Anyway, I now think he's my top scum pick, so it's easier to go back and ask who in their right town mind would suggest that other busy townies spend time considering a particular scum pairing that contains themselves as a known town and another player whose alignment they don't possibly have any way of knowing about.

So for the one line where I said "someone that is not me should look at this", is the same reason why I include myself in all pairings. I assume people are not looking at each pair potential as only an individual potential scenario. When I run down the list of remaining possibilities, especially at a time when there are so many remaining, the fundamental reason behind it is to find connections or similar themes among players that lead to suspicion or inconsistencies in their actions.

I consider my job as town to consist of essentially 3 things:
1) Try to lynch skum
2) Try not to lynch town
3) Try not to let yourself get lynched

If I think having people read over a set of information may lead to skum-catching conclusions while simultaneously helping town players remove me from their lynch pool... Yeah, I am gonna bring that up each and every time. To not do so would just be like an attempt at failing your wincon.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think IDP was the one who had everything rounding to 5% endings.

I wouldn't intentionally post incorrect math. I got lazy when I was doing the numbers (I was at work and only had a phone to write things down on) and didn't adjust the probabilities properly, as you explained in your post refuting my numbers.

Yeah, but from my point of view, 2/3 of my lynch pool posted bad maths, and the one remaining person can't be both scums... so for me and town!Skumpy, someone who posted bad maths has to be scum, and I got the feeling that Skumpy was evaluating the same error from you and Swan differently to suit his narrative.

[Skumpy]

I think IDP was the one who had everything rounding to 5% endings.

I wouldn't intentionally post incorrect math. I got lazy when I was doing the numbers (I was at work and only had a phone to write things down on) and didn't adjust the probabilities properly, as you explained in your post refuting my numbers.

Yeah, but from my point of view, 2/3 of my lynch pool posted bad maths, and the one remaining person can't be both scums... so for me and town!Skumpy, someone who posted bad maths has to be scum, and I got the feeling that Skumpy was evaluating the same error from you and Swan differently to suit his narrative.

It's actually 3/3 of your lynchpool; I screwed up the math on the start of day 2, thinking that all numbers of roles were equally likely. I tried though.

I'm not getting your point. You're saying that I should be making a decision between Swan and IDPTG solely based on who I think did a scummier job with the fake and/or wrong numbers? And there absolutely is a difference between the miscalculations.

Swan's post in #111 featuring not realizing there could be 2 or 4 PR's can't be a genuine mistake if he's scum. You (Space) are obviously going to crunch the numbers N0 with him if you're scum. Even with IDPTG's math mistakes and LL's busy schedule, I still have to imagine one of them would've too. And there's no way all 3 scum misread the setup. Scum!Swan knew the setup D1, so he was faking #97 and #111 in quick succession if he's scum. If he's town, then it was genuine. I do believe it could be a genuine town mistake from him. But I don't know if he would scheme that much as scum, you'd know better than me since you were scum with him 1.5 times. The point is: if I think Swan wouldn't intentionally misdo the setup, then I know he's my town partner. So do I think he would? Very hesitant, 'no, I think it's townie'. At any rate, it's not the make-or-break sign for me.

In #596 though (IDPTG's multiples of 5), Galzria was killed and scum wasn't able to discuss the new probabilities unless they planned for all 4 scenarios where they kill a VT, a 1, a 2, or a 3 (not to mention a vig shot or a Doc heal or a Jailkeeper Save). I know that wouldn't happen with a Swan/IDPTG team. Would you (Space) have done that? I'd hope not. Obviously wrong probabilities is so pointless to do if he's scum that I think it's an honest mistake from either alignment. I know as scum, I wouldn't post wrong probabilities when I'm trying to impress all you better math and sciencey people with my good reasoning skills (which never happens from townme anyways).

TL:DR - Swan's mistakes were calculated if he's scum. What does that tell me/us? Not sure now. IDPTG's mistakes were probably actual mistakes. I don't take away anything from that.

[Swowl]

I feel like the accusations are getting more and more far fetched as we continue here. Which I suppose is good for town. Either way...

Andrew - do you see a downside in revealing your targets for vig kills?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I feel like the accusations are getting more and more far fetched as we continue here. Which I suppose is good for town. Either way...

Andrew - do you see a downside in revealing your targets for vig kills?

I'm not Andrew, but I don't. Scum knows who they killed and therefore who Andrew did. I think town can make some pretty good guesses though.

[Swowl]

I feel like the accusations are getting more and more far fetched as we continue here. Which I suppose is good for town. Either way...

Andrew - do you see a downside in revealing your targets for vig kills?

I'm not Andrew, but I don't. Scum knows who they killed and therefore who Andrew did. I think town can make some pretty good guesses though.

Yeah just rather have a real answer if it’s available

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry I've been absent. Here's how I used my shots

N1 - Skumpy, obviously it didn't go through.
N2 - xxraptor
N3 - Awaclus (I was going to shoot Space originally, shouldnt've second guessed myself)

So are we lynching Space today? You guys wanna go ahead and yolo it (sorry for saying "yolo")?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Sorry I've been absent. Here's how I used my shots

N1 - Skumpy, obviously it didn't go through.
N2 - xxraptor
N3 - Awaclus (I was going to shoot Space originally, shouldnt've second guessed myself)

So are we lynching Space today? You guys wanna go ahead and yolo it (sorry for saying "yolo")?

Huh. I assumed you held your shot N1. Anyway, yeah, I'm willing to yolo it and if we lose, well, gg.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Anybody have a IDPTG town game handy?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Anybody have a IDPTG town game handy?

Every game of mine that wasn't my one scum game. Which one do you want?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Anybody have a IDPTG town game handy?

Every game of mine that wasn't my one scum game. Which one do you want?

My performance in NM10 was excellent.

^

[IDontPlayThisGame]

NM9, M94 (or whichever was Squid Girl), and M105 are ones I know I completed as town. I had some stuff going on that had me /outing from about half of my games, but things aren't like that now so I'm in games to stay. I can look through to see which other ones I was in. I can also find my scum game (you'll only need to read D1 since I was the first lynch).

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I wasn't in M105. It was M106 and M108.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

M104 was my scum game. I was lynched on page 22.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'll look at some games tomorrow. Gonna watch a movie right now.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Just wanted to give you some options as I remembered which games I was in. I didn't post there as much as I did here (I think) so a targeted reread wouldn't take too long.

[Skumpy]

Sorry I've been absent. Here's how I used my shots

N1 - Skumpy, obviously it didn't go through.
N2 - xxraptor
N3 - Awaclus (I was going to shoot Space originally, shouldnt've second guessed myself)

So are we lynching Space today? You guys wanna go ahead and yolo it (sorry for saying "yolo")?

Hold the phone, what? Why on earth would you shoot N1? And more importantly, why on earth would you shoot ME N1? As an OMGUS for a D1, which I have repeatedly said I suck at? I honestly wish I had tried to lynch you now. Apology acceptance from before rescinded, since there wouldn't BE anybody left to apologize to had N1 gone through. I guess it's water under the bridge now, but sheesh, please don't ever try do that again.

(That was half-jest, half-serious. But I am not feeling particularly appreciative right now)

Huh. I assumed you held your shot N1. Anyway, yeah, I'm willing to yolo it and if we lose, well, gg.

Given that I now know Andrew has gone 0/3, plus would've tried to go for 2.7 over Teproc D2, I am now quite hesitant to follow here. Even though I ultimately probably will. If the team's IDPTG/Swan, nothing I can do about it once Andrew votes. I said this was the team I least suspect, I'll read back tomorrow and see if I feel the same way. Definitely wouldn't hammer tonight.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Wow Skumpy. Dramatic much? You're right though, my reads have been awful this game. Maybe we should lynch you after all!

[Skumpy]

Wow Skumpy. Dramatic much? You're right though, my reads have been awful this game. Maybe we should lynch you after all!

Yep Yes Yep No.

Don't provoke me.

[Swowl]

Sorry I've been absent. Here's how I used my shots

N1 - Skumpy, obviously it didn't go through.
N2 - xxraptor
N3 - Awaclus (I was going to shoot Space originally, shouldnt've second guessed myself)

So are we lynching Space today? You guys wanna go ahead and yolo it (sorry for saying "yolo")?

So. I am OK with Space lynch, but still think IDP is the place to look.

[Swowl]

OK - thoughts regarding Vig kill choices thus far:

1) Even though aimed at 2 (possibly 3) towns, it is not the end of the world. XXR and Awaclus would of been prime targets for skum to try and lay up given the way the game was going prior to their deaths. If I, or any other town other than Space I guess, was shot instead of Awaclus last night, I almost think it certain everyone would be sitting around right now contemplating between one of those dead town players. As we now know they were Town, at least that scenario is removed. Just saying, whats done is done. We should not waste time dwelling on the past and try to make the most of what we have in front of us.

2) XXR - Whatever, I disagreed with this from D1. I don't think we really learn very much from him flipping town. I wanna politely point out I think it should earn me some cred for pretty much solo defending him based on reads, but whatever.

3) Skumpy no kill N1 - So... The only things in the game that could prevent this are Doc, Skum RB, and JK/Cop (Galz). At this point we know that Skum has an RB (3 for Galz, 1 for Faust, 2 for Andrew and 6+ has Skum RB in the mix). And then we clearly know that Galz was the JK/Cop. I guess we still don't know for 100% if there is a DOC/NEO, though I find it unlikely at this point.
I am trying to find a way to use this info, but without knowing who Galz targeted and who Skum blocked, or if there 100% is a doc or not, (though unlikely they would not of claimed by now in this situation) I just am finding too many variables to come to any solid conclusions on anything. Does anyone have anything they can think of?

[Swowl]

OK I will go back and quote block stuff later, but I have been doing a re read of Space/IDP and it is late. So pretty much here is my summary:

1) Space getting on Andrew for being "abrasive" in D1. I just... IDK, it could be a great play that is working on me, but since we know Andrew is Town, would Skum!Space really get all up in that? It just seems unlikely right?

2) IDP states the only person he would lynch on day 1 off a list that consists of all town confirmed players and Space ... is only Space.

3) and again... just ALLLLLLLLL the vote history. like just all of it. I think it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP, but if it is one or the other I really am leaning on IDP here. Space being in andrews face, then disappearing D2 just seem like a lot of things that would happen if they were Town but if they were skum I already spoke to the first point and quite frankly I think they would make more of an effort to ensure they showed up on D2 to do like.... something.


My second choice is Space. So if that is where it is at, I am fine with that I guess. But I really think everyone should go back and re look at IDP.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

2) XXR - Whatever, I disagreed with this from D1. I don't think we really learn very much from him flipping town. I wanna politely point out I think it should earn me some cred for pretty much solo defending him based on reads, but whatever.

No.

OK I will go back and quote block stuff later, but I have been doing a re read of Space/IDP and it is late. So pretty much here is my summary:

1) Space getting on Andrew for being "abrasive" in D1. I just... IDK, it could be a great play that is working on me, but since we know Andrew is Town, would Skum!Space really get all up in that? It just seems unlikely right?

2) IDP states the only person he would lynch on day 1 off a list that consists of all town confirmed players and Space ... is only Space.

3) and again... just ALLLLLLLLL the vote history. like just all of it. I think it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP, but if it is one or the other I really am leaning on IDP here. Space being in andrews face, then disappearing D2 just seem like a lot of things that would happen if they were Town but if they were skum I already spoke to the first point and quite frankly I think they would make more of an effort to ensure they showed up on D2 to do like.... something.


My second choice is Space. So if that is where it is at, I am fine with that I guess. But I really think everyone should go back and re look at IDP.

And this reads like scum getting cold feet about the bus.

1) So you're saying scum!Space plays nice with everyone?

2) What's your point?

3) If you really think "it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP" then I don't understand your hesitation to vote for Space. Town!DatSwan doesn't need a scumread on me or Space to vote for us, just a strong townread on Skumpy. Scum!DatSwan, on the other hand, does care about who gets lynched even with a townread on Skumpy.

[SpaceAnemone]

Yeah, IDP's observations on Sean's change of primary target seem valid, however much I welcome a shift away from everyone in the game wanting to lynch me.

I know I appealed to everyone to look at how much I'm mismatched in at least one scum game I played, but out happens very frequently as town too, and it'd be remiss of me not to remind townirs of that.

I'm now at the start of my Absence.. currently awaiting a train to the airport; should be in Amsterdam in 3 or 4 hours. Still haven't finished writing my talk :-/

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, deadline is in about 35 hours.

[Swowl]

2) XXR - Whatever, I disagreed with this from D1. I don't think we really learn very much from him flipping town. I wanna politely point out I think it should earn me some cred for pretty much solo defending him based on reads, but whatever.

No.

OK I will go back and quote block stuff later, but I have been doing a re read of Space/IDP and it is late. So pretty much here is my summary:

1) Space getting on Andrew for being "abrasive" in D1. I just... IDK, it could be a great play that is working on me, but since we know Andrew is Town, would Skum!Space really get all up in that? It just seems unlikely right?

2) IDP states the only person he would lynch on day 1 off a list that consists of all town confirmed players and Space ... is only Space.

3) and again... just ALLLLLLLLL the vote history. like just all of it. I think it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP, but if it is one or the other I really am leaning on IDP here. Space being in andrews face, then disappearing D2 just seem like a lot of things that would happen if they were Town but if they were skum I already spoke to the first point and quite frankly I think they would make more of an effort to ensure they showed up on D2 to do like.... something.


My second choice is Space. So if that is where it is at, I am fine with that I guess. But I really think everyone should go back and re look at IDP.

And this reads like scum getting cold feet about the bus.

1) So you're saying scum!Space plays nice with everyone?

2) What's your point?

3) If you really think "it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP" then I don't understand your hesitation to vote for Space. Town!DatSwan doesn't need a scumread on me or Space to vote for us, just a strong townread on Skumpy. Scum!DatSwan, on the other hand, does care about who gets lynched even with a townread on Skumpy.

1) yes? at least my experience
2) no. try harder.

[Swowl]

Yeah, IDP's observations on Sean's change of primary target seem valid, however much I welcome a shift away from everyone in the game wanting to lynch me.

I know I appealed to everyone to look at how much I'm mismatched in at least one scum game I played, but out happens very frequently as town too, and it'd be remiss of me not to remind townirs of that.

I'm now at the start of my Absence.. currently awaiting a train to the airport; should be in Amsterdam in 3 or 4 hours. Still haven't finished writing my talk :-/

my change of primary target?
Go back and read guys I have been slotting IDP the entire day. I mean if you are gonna make accusations at least get your stories straight.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Andrew: how do you want to run the final voting? I'm about to be in the air (though my flight is awfully delayed already, so who knows when we'll actually board) and I'll end the day 6 hours ahead of forum time. If I'm awake till midnight that means sleeping from 6pm forum time, so I have until them to place my vote.

[AndrewisFTTW]

@Andrew: how do you want to run the final voting? I'm about to be in the air (though my flight is awfully delayed already, so who knows when we'll actually board) and I'll end the day 6 hours ahead of forum time. If I'm awake till midnight that means sleeping from 6pm forum time, so I have until them to place my vote.

I'm not in charge of voting but I think it's best to hold off voting in case of a derphammer. Other than that I don't really care.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

2) XXR - Whatever, I disagreed with this from D1. I don't think we really learn very much from him flipping town. I wanna politely point out I think it should earn me some cred for pretty much solo defending him based on reads, but whatever.

No.

OK I will go back and quote block stuff later, but I have been doing a re read of Space/IDP and it is late. So pretty much here is my summary:

1) Space getting on Andrew for being "abrasive" in D1. I just... IDK, it could be a great play that is working on me, but since we know Andrew is Town, would Skum!Space really get all up in that? It just seems unlikely right?

2) IDP states the only person he would lynch on day 1 off a list that consists of all town confirmed players and Space ... is only Space.

3) and again... just ALLLLLLLLL the vote history. like just all of it. I think it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP, but if it is one or the other I really am leaning on IDP here. Space being in andrews face, then disappearing D2 just seem like a lot of things that would happen if they were Town but if they were skum I already spoke to the first point and quite frankly I think they would make more of an effort to ensure they showed up on D2 to do like.... something.


My second choice is Space. So if that is where it is at, I am fine with that I guess. But I really think everyone should go back and re look at IDP.

And this reads like scum getting cold feet about the bus.

1) So you're saying scum!Space plays nice with everyone?

2) What's your point?

3) If you really think "it is like super super likely it is both Space and IDP" then I don't understand your hesitation to vote for Space. Town!DatSwan doesn't need a scumread on me or Space to vote for us, just a strong townread on Skumpy. Scum!DatSwan, on the other hand, does care about who gets lynched even with a townread on Skumpy.

1) yes? at least my experience
2) no. try harder.

1) Well, I disagree.
2) Unless you're saying scum!me set up busing scum!Space D1, I still don't see your point.

Yeah, IDP's observations on Sean's change of primary target seem valid, however much I welcome a shift away from everyone in the game wanting to lynch me.

I know I appealed to everyone to look at how much I'm mismatched in at least one scum game I played, but out happens very frequently as town too, and it'd be remiss of me not to remind townirs of that.

I'm now at the start of my Absence.. currently awaiting a train to the airport; should be in Amsterdam in 3 or 4 hours. Still haven't finished writing my talk :-/

my change of primary target?
Go back and read guys I have been slotting IDP the entire day. I mean if you are gonna make accusations at least get your stories straight.

True. I remembered it as you saying me or Space and forgot the bit where you always ended it saying you'd rather lynch me.

[schadd]

Vote count 4.1

not voting (5) : Skumpy, DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame

with 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 4 ends thursday, december 7th at 23:00 forum time. about a day and a half

mod notes

• it's lylo!

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, DatSwan: unless town!you is calling the scum team as me/Skumpy, why not lynch Space? Because saying I'm more likely to be scum than Space implies a scumread on Skumpy.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

@Andrew: how do you want to run the final voting? I'm about to be in the air (though my flight is awfully delayed already, so who knows when we'll actually board) and I'll end the day 6 hours ahead of forum time. If I'm awake till midnight that means sleeping from 6pm forum time, so I have until them to place my vote.

I'm not in charge of voting but I think it's best to hold off voting in case of a derphammer. Other than that I don't really care.

I'm done with this nonsense and ready to vote.

[SpaceAnemone]

@Andrew: how do you want to run the final voting? I'm about to be in the air (though my flight is awfully delayed already, so who knows when we'll actually board) and I'll end the day 6 hours ahead of forum time. If I'm awake till midnight that means sleeping from 6pm forum time, so I have until them to place my vote.

I'm not in charge of voting but I think it's best to hold off voting in case of a derphammer. Other than that I don't really care.

Okay.. well take this as intent to vote by 5pm assuming I can get some internet access in Amsterdam when I get there. We really need all three towns to participate in the lynch, so I can't afford to hold off voting.

PPE 1

[IDontPlayThisGame]

@Andrew: how do you want to run the final voting? I'm about to be in the air (though my flight is awfully delayed already, so who knows when we'll actually board) and I'll end the day 6 hours ahead of forum time. If I'm awake till midnight that means sleeping from 6pm forum time, so I have until them to place my vote.

I'm not in charge of voting but I think it's best to hold off voting in case of a derphammer. Other than that I don't really care.

Okay.. well take this as intent to vote by 5pm assuming I can get some internet access in Amsterdam when I get there. We really need all three towns to participate in the lynch, so I can't afford to hold off voting.

PPE 1

5:00 p.m. forum time today or tomorrow?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don't think my opinion is changing today. If the team is DatSwan/Skumpy, congrats.

vote: SpaceAnemone

[SpaceAnemone]

Ah, I meant 5pm today because I was incorrectly forgetting to add a day for the fact that 23.00 forum time is 5am on Friday not 5am tomorrow morning. I'm going to be even more absent tomorrow than today, though, so wanting to get my vote down is still a sensible concern.

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't think my opinion is changing today. If the team is DatSwan/Skumpy, congrats.

vote: SpaceAnemone

So tempted to retaliate, but still probably most interested in Swan.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don't think my opinion is changing today. If the team is DatSwan/Skumpy, congrats.

vote: SpaceAnemone

So tempted to retaliate, but still probably most interested in Swan.

Still planning on voting before 5 forum time?

[SpaceAnemone]

I don't think my opinion is changing today. If the team is DatSwan/Skumpy, congrats.

vote: SpaceAnemone

So tempted to retaliate, but still probably most interested in Swan.

Still planning on voting before 5 forum time?

Getting to my hotel took longer than I'd hoped, so I'm just settling in.

There's an outside chance you're town keeping a careful eye on the thread to see who jumps onto the wagon, but the longer your vote sits there on its own, the more I'll think you're scum.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don't think my opinion is changing today. If the team is DatSwan/Skumpy, congrats.

vote: SpaceAnemone

So tempted to retaliate, but still probably most interested in Swan.

Still planning on voting before 5 forum time?

Getting to my hotel took longer than I'd hoped, so I'm just settling in.

There's an outside chance you're town keeping a careful eye on the thread to see who jumps onto the wagon, but the longer your vote sits there on its own, the more I'll think you're scum.

Or you're scum and your partner is waiting to see if they need to bus.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Alright. Let's do this.

Vote: Space L-1

[Swowl]

OK, lets do that then.

Vote: Space

[SpaceAnemone]

Alright. Let's do this.

Vote: Space L-1

That's a derp-L-1. What was possibly to be gained by toy voting early?

[SpaceAnemone]

 Was I at least right on IDP-Swan in the end?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Was I at least right on IDP-Swan in the end?

Nope.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Oh. We lost?

[Swowl]

good game guys! that was fun.

Thanks for the game schadd

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Oh. We lost?

I guess there's a reason I have the worst record on this site.

[SpaceAnemone]

Oh. We lost?

Well I'm 100% town, so looks like :-(

[AndrewisFTTW]

I second guessed myself this entire game. Scumread DatSwan D1, heavily suspected Skumpy a few times, and then just moved on to someone else. Awful game for me. Good job guys.

[AndrewisFTTW]

At least I would've shot scum N1 if I wasn't RBed or whatever.

[schadd]

Day 4 final vote count

SpaceAnemone (3): IDontPlayThisGame, AndrewisFTTW, DatSwan

not voting (2) : Skumpy, SpaceAnemone

with 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/_pFZz3OXcMs?t=37s

i, i i i i, i
all those tears i cried, i i, i, i
all those tears i cried, oh oh, ah, ah
baby, please,
don't go

SpaceAnemone has been lynched! they were a vanilla townie!

.

https://youtu.be/DhK-zu_KI2I?t=1m3s

[instrumental]

AndrewisFTTW has been endgamed! he was a town vigilante!


https://youtu.be/TYbMPgqsGhI?t=2m54s

aaaaaaaah
(hey, hey, what can i do) keep on, keep on, keep on, keep on
(oh, oh, what can i say) she won't, no
(hey, hey, what can i do) keep on, keep on, keep on, keep on, yeah, yeah
(oh, oh, what can i say)

IDontPlayThisGame has been endgamed! he was a vanilla townie


https://youtu.be/iaFK6AHhU8s?t=17s

silent woman in the night
took my seed from my tremblin frame
same old fire, another flame
and the wheel rolls on

DatSwan survives and wins! he was mafia-aligned!


https://youtu.be/pYcQeAnUmNA?t=3m14s

now, my mama, you didn't have to crucify me like you did
you didn't have to tell me i was just your kid
hey, hey, mama, what's the matter here?
you didn't have to tell me you would be my own,
you didn't have to tell me, baby, let me go,
hey, hey, mama, what is wrong with you?
ah, that's alright, i know your sister, too. (oh, yeah, yeah, ooh yeah)

Skumpy survives and wins! he was mafia-aligned!

[schadd]

https://youtu.be/Zp-LBD_q0sQ?t=4m50s

ooh, now my body is startin to quiver
and the palms of my hands gettin wet,
i've got no reason to doubt you, baby
it's all a terrible mess.
and i'll run in the rain til i'm breathless,
when i'm breathless i'll run til i drop, hey!
n the thoughts of a fool's gotta count,
i'm just a fool waitin on the wrong block!

scum wins!

mod https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jj7SjfkfciGRa
maff https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/f9hDry394bQ
spec https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/UVgukNRyXw4AF (the first one was called "from the houses of the holy, we will watch the white doves go" and i couldn't think of a second one)

[Galzria]

Open for business?

[Skumpy]

Was going to apologize for not being around because life had been busy, sleep-deprived of my own doing, and then fiery. I don't know if I'm supposed to apologize or not now. I'll do it anyways, sorry.

good game guys! that was fun.

Thanks for the game schadd

GG all. I liked Skum more than I expected...but still town better. Swan for MVP. My days were pretty good, I went under suspicion for a while. Then you read the scum QT and see that it was I LaLight who fixed the D1 killer, Swan who PR hunted Galzria, and Skumpy whose masterful N3 plan to be sure to not let the vig make it alive to final 5 completely backfired. Sympathies to LL who tried his best to help despite a lot of turmoil and Teproc who /inned into a really bad position LL left him 

[Skumpy]

Now I've read the speccy. Apparently the way it works is people don't suspect me until they're dead.

Hello, I am NewFace! Nice to play with you all. Well, 9 of you at any rate...
Nice to be town so I don't have too much pressure my first game, but if I ever get scum, you'll be able to read me like a book

That wasn't self-deprecation, that was honesty. As I predicted. I got lucky this game, won't happen again (I feel like this is going to come off as me trying to rub salt in the wounds; it's me reacting to the speccy because it's more recent info to me than the game). If I'm ever Skum vs Galzria, that's clearly going to end in disaster. Good to know one person's figured out the Skumpsystem since 105.

I could say a lot more, that will wait until the thread officially unlocks so the conversation won't be one-way. I'd like to defend my play against the suspicious minds of Galzria and co. But I'm obviously biased, and I can't say "You were wrong!" when they were right.

[Galzria]

Nah, Andrew and I both pegged you N1. Unfortunately we just crossed wires as I jailed you trying to prevent the kill, and he shot you trying to kill scum.

 

[AndrewisFTTW]

Nah, Andrew and I both pegged you N1. Unfortunately we just crossed wires as I jailed you trying to prevent the kill, and he shot you trying to kill scum.

 

 

[Galzria]

Nah, Andrew and I both pegged you N1. Unfortunately we just crossed wires as I jailed you trying to prevent the kill, and he shot you trying to kill scum.

 

 

Yeah. Sorry Andrew. We both read it right though - so good job on that!

[Skumpy]

Was the not-wanting-to-lynch-me-D1 genuine, or were you trying to bait me into trying the kill N1? If the latter, it would've worked except LL came in with the save.

I nearly slipped D4 after Andrew said he shot me N1 by saying something like "Thanks to Galzria for the heavenly intervention" before I deleted it right before posting after realizing I gave away that I knew Andrew wasn't roleblocked. When I write as much as I do, I'm proud I didn't slip badly anywhere. Did do a half-slip in D4 when I reacted to Andrew's vig claim without giving Space a chance to CC, since I knew he was the vig at that point.

In case my N3 was confusing to anybody: the idea I had was to RB IDPTG, thinking he was the vig (less 2.7's rolefishing, though it didn't discourage me, more about the Raptor accusation on D2 followed by the shot) expecting him to shoot Andrew. Then, IDPTG and Awaclus would both be targetting Andrew in MYLO, and we'd go from there. Then kill 2nd pick for vig (gkrieg) in order to not go to LYLO with an IC vig still alive. Genius. Then I just didn't even consider CCing vig, though I don't think I could've pulled it off.


OK, time for the pupil to learn (I won, but I feel like I lost, and I'm coming off as a tool. Oh well): was there anything specific that was a dead give-away for you Galz?

[Skumpy]

Yeah, a LOT of on-the-money comments from Galzria in the speccy. One I do question is #44

"Also, if 2.7 is not scum, that was a silly lynch. You guys had him lined up."

I flipped to get it from 4-4 to 5-3. Reasoning for that move was 2.7 was not lined up. DatSwan was around to flip, but Space and faust were asleep. IDPTG was VLA (I think). gkrieg was not going to flip IF he showed. Awaclus might've, but that's a wildcard to bank on. There wasn't going to be a 6th vote.

On the other hand, the 2.7 wagon had me, Andrew, and Raptor. SOMEBODY (well, Andrew) was going to flip to make the lynch happen, so I had to beat him to the punch.

[Galzria]

Was the not-wanting-to-lynch-me-D1 genuine, or were you trying to bait me into trying the kill N1? If the latter, it would've worked except LL came in with the save.

I nearly slipped D4 after Andrew said he shot me N1 by saying something like "Thanks to Galzria for the heavenly intervention" before I deleted it right before posting after realizing I gave away that I knew Andrew wasn't roleblocked. When I write as much as I do, I'm proud I didn't slip badly anywhere. Did do a half-slip in D4 when I reacted to Andrew's vig claim without giving Space a chance to CC, since I knew he was the vig at that point.

In case my N3 was confusing to anybody: the idea I had was to RB IDPTG, thinking he was the vig (less 2.7's rolefishing, though it didn't discourage me, more about the Raptor accusation on D2 followed by the shot) expecting him to shoot Andrew. Then, IDPTG and Awaclus would both be targetting Andrew in MYLO, and we'd go from there. Then kill 2nd pick for vig (gkrieg) in order to not go to LYLO with an IC vig still alive. Genius. Then I just didn't even consider CCing vig, though I don't think I could've pulled it off.


OK, time for the pupil to learn (I won, but I feel like I lost, and I'm coming off as a tool. Oh well): was there anything specific that was a dead give-away for you Galz?

100% the latter. I wanted you, as scum, to feel confident enough in people town reading you to feel like you were least likely to be targeted by any role other than protective ones. That is, I guessed scum would put their least suspected player forward to do the kill.

Swan has informed me as well that you were in fact set to do the kill that night until a last minute change by LL - which makes Andrew and I crossing up all the more unfortunate. That night really set into motion the outcome for the game. If I targeted elsewhere, Andrew targeted elsewhere or you had taken the shot the outcome may have been quite different!

[Galzria]

The biggest thing for me against you D1 was how hard you were trying to sell that you could never play scum. You did it in your first game and then we moved past that. Had this game been filled with new faces then maybe it would come off as more genuine - but we were largely the same group. The argument felt forced to sound like your first game - pitched to a sizeable number of players that were there the first time. It was unnecessary and that made it feel faked.

[Swowl]

Now I've read the speccy. Apparently the way it works is people don't suspect me until they're dead.

Hello, I am NewFace! Nice to play with you all. Well, 9 of you at any rate...
Nice to be town so I don't have too much pressure my first game, but if I ever get scum, you'll be able to read me like a book

That wasn't self-deprecation, that was honesty. As I predicted. I got lucky this game, won't happen again (I feel like this is going to come off as me trying to rub salt in the wounds; it's me reacting to the speccy because it's more recent info to me than the game). If I'm ever Skum vs Galzria, that's clearly going to end in disaster. Good to know one person's figured out the Skumpsystem since 105.

I could say a lot more, that will wait until the thread officially unlocks so the conversation won't be one-way. I'd like to defend my play against the suspicious minds of Galzria and co. But I'm obviously biased, and I can't say "You were wrong!" when they were right.

Where did you find speccy?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Fun fact that I'm reasonably certain is true: the only game I've played where my side won involved my mislynch D1.

[Swowl]

Fun fact that I'm reasonably certain is true: the only game I've played where my side won involved my mislynch D1.

*Hugs*

[Skumpy]

Was the not-wanting-to-lynch-me-D1 genuine, or were you trying to bait me into trying the kill N1? If the latter, it would've worked except LL came in with the save.

100% the latter. I wanted you, as scum, to feel confident enough in people town reading you to feel like you were least likely to be targeted by any role other than protective ones. That is, I guessed scum would put their least suspected player forward to do the kill.

You damned conniving weasel!

The biggest thing for me against you D1 was how hard you were trying to sell that you could never play scum. You did it in your first game and then we moved past that. Had this game been filled with new faces then maybe it would come off as more genuine - but we were largely the same group. The argument felt forced to sound like your first game - pitched to a sizeable number of players that were there the first time. It was unnecessary and that made it feel faked.

I'd like to defend my play against the suspicious minds of Galzria and co. But I'm obviously biased, and I can't say "You were wrong!" when they were right.

I'm really glad I posted that, because that bias about to come true: I really do think it's something I'd do as town, especially since the person who first accused me was someone who didn't know my style (Space). Pretty sure the self-doubt was going to continue at least through my first scum game. I'm going to come out now and say: whenever I get accused, I'm going to try and sell it more because since you now have a blueprint for both townme AND Scumpy (was a decision ever made?), I wouldn't expect it to be hard to tell the difference (I know I won, but I still believe it's true since the entire speccy was united against me). I think 'forced' isn't the right word for that 'I can't play skum' post. 'Annoying', yeah, that seems better 

[Skumpy]

Now I've read the speccy. Apparently the way it works is people don't suspect me until they're dead.

Hello, I am NewFace! Nice to play with you all. Well, 9 of you at any rate...
Nice to be town so I don't have too much pressure my first game, but if I ever get scum, you'll be able to read me like a book

That wasn't self-deprecation, that was honesty. As I predicted. I got lucky this game, won't happen again (I feel like this is going to come off as me trying to rub salt in the wounds; it's me reacting to the speccy because it's more recent info to me than the game). If I'm ever Skum vs Galzria, that's clearly going to end in disaster. Good to know one person's figured out the Skumpsystem since 105.

I could say a lot more, that will wait until the thread officially unlocks so the conversation won't be one-way. I'd like to defend my play against the suspicious minds of Galzria and co. But I'm obviously biased, and I can't say "You were wrong!" when they were right.

Where did you find speccy?

I think schadd just overwrote it...

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/UVgukNRyXw4AF

[faust]

10. What is Space's secret?

10. I actually don't think there's much of a mystery there.

Why is that not clear enough for you?

[schadd]

good game guys! that was fun.

Thanks for the game schadd

np!

[schadd]

On a scale of terrible to okay, how'd I do?

tis thou who shall answer that! like i could go through and see what of your stuff was good and weak reasoning but i only kind of feel like doing that whereas i have like two homeworks to do. but yeah reflecting on what of your reasoning was good and what was bollocks is definitely something u should refine for urself.

i kind of remember there being some stuff i liked. still kind of lacking in motivation-analyzy stuff i believe, again from memory

[schadd]

do people like music theme games? because i want to do sufjan stevens next at some point which may have been clear

[Swowl]

do people like music theme games? because i want to do sufjan stevens next at some point which may have been clear

lolz
/in

[Swowl]

do people like music theme games? because i want to do sufjan stevens next at some point which may have been clear

lolz
/in

although for real you should do a rock star themed one. Maybe even an RMM. fuck that would be fantastic. If you do it tell me I wanna help lol.

[schadd]

rmms are bad for the soul and moderating one would send me down a deathly path of apostasy

[Swowl]

rmms are bad for the soul and moderating one would send me down a deathly path of apostasy

OK fine not an RMM. You can make all the PRs like Ringo and Cash and Neil Pert and then like omg!!! Yoko can be Traitor/SK!!!

VTs can be like... IDK a combo  the members of Nysnc that aren't JT and the guy that sang Gundam Style!

That is 30 seconds of work! cmon that would be great!

[Swowl]

TeprocPerson was signed in when posted
11-24-2017
08:20 AM ET (US)
I propose we use Skum!py from now on.


From Speccy ^^^

This is happening.

[Swowl]

Also IDK if this is polite or not, so if it is not I am sorry:

Skum buddies - great game!

Skumpster I thought you did well, don't be hard on yourself man!
LL you called it perfectly haha "OK guys this is what is going to happen. At some point Faust is going to just be like 'no he is skum' so let me take the risk and fire tonight instead."
Teproc man I really thought you almost pulled it out. In hindsight, we actually probably could of saved you and gotten E! instead.

Reading the Speccy - I guess I did not do as well as I thought I did haha! I thought I was super under the radar but II calls out like exactly what I posted in my QT regarding putting skumpy at the top of my chum list after hedging him. Good read man!

[schadd]

i was thinking swan for mvp since he didn't get jailshot

[Swowl]

i was thinking swan for mvp since he didn't get jailshot

Or viged!

[schadd]

i.e. the shot part of jailshot

[Skumpy]

Also IDK if this is polite or not, so if it is not I am sorry:

Skum buddies - great game!

Skumpster I thought you did well, don't be hard on yourself man!

Ditto this. And you're probably right, maybe I am a legend at this game.

i was thinking swan for mvp since he didn't get jailshot

Hey, it shouldn't count against me since it cancels out! But I concur. Would be well deserved.

[iguanaiguana]

do people like music theme games? because i want to do sufjan stevens next at some point which may have been clear

lolz
/in

I would auto in sufjan.

[Teproc]

Congrats guys, you did strong work on day 3 especially. Happy my brief stint, though it didn't save me, didn't damn anyone either through interactions.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

do people like music theme games? because i want to do sufjan stevens next at some point which may have been clear

I didn't really pay attention to any of the flavor. Then again, I haven't really listened to any Led Zeppelin so I was never going to be that invested in flavor here.

[schadd]

do people like music theme games? because i want to do sufjan stevens next at some point which may have been clear

I didn't really pay attention to any of the flavor. Then again, I haven't really listened to any Led Zeppelin so I was never going to be that invested in flavor here.

but that's like the whole point is that you start listening!!

[schadd]

because they're good!!!!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Yeah that's pretty crazy you haven't really checked out Zeppelin. Even if you decide you don't like them you need to know what they're all about.

[skip wooznum]

Hey @schadd :-) hullo!

You said in the setup post that the roles summing up to whatever number you've picked are chosen from the list of six options, with no repeats. Were they randomly chosen with equal prior probability of coming up, or something else? Might you specify that part of the algorithm? Thanks!

10 decide to choose 2 roles, 3 roles or 4 roles
20 choose n roles, no repeats; any particular combination of n roles is equally likely (nothing happens here to regulate the sum)
30 if the sum of the role numbers isn't more than 3 and less than 9 scrap it and goto 10

It's interesting that this algorithm makes it so not all numbers of roles are equally likely.

For 2 roles, there are (6 choose 2) = 15 possible picks. Out of these, 5 lead to termination. I.e. if 2 is chosen in step 10, then there's a 1/3 chance of reset.
For 3 roles, there is no combination that causes a reset.
For 4 roles, there are also 15 possible picks. Total sum of picks is 12, so those that are larger than 8 are exactly those where the not-chosen ones are smaller than 4, i.e. the inverse settings of the 2 role scenario. So also a 1/3 chance of reset.

The chance of 2 or 4 being chosen is thus 1/3*2/3 + 1/3*1/3*1/3*2/3+(1/3)^4*1/3*2/3+... or put differently, 2/9*sum( (1/9)^i) = 2/9*9/8=1/4.

Thus the chance of 3 roles is 50%.

pretty sure this is wrong. Should be 3/7 chance of 3 roles and 2/7 each of 2 and 4. As you say, there’s a 1/3 chance of a reset if 2 is rolled. That makes it 1.5x as likely that 3 is rolled. Sorry if I missed someone else pointing it out.

[Skumpy]

Hey @schadd :-) hullo!

You said in the setup post that the roles summing up to whatever number you've picked are chosen from the list of six options, with no repeats. Were they randomly chosen with equal prior probability of coming up, or something else? Might you specify that part of the algorithm? Thanks!

10 decide to choose 2 roles, 3 roles or 4 roles
20 choose n roles, no repeats; any particular combination of n roles is equally likely (nothing happens here to regulate the sum)
30 if the sum of the role numbers isn't more than 3 and less than 9 scrap it and goto 10

It's interesting that this algorithm makes it so not all numbers of roles are equally likely.

For 2 roles, there are (6 choose 2) = 15 possible picks. Out of these, 5 lead to termination. I.e. if 2 is chosen in step 10, then there's a 1/3 chance of reset.
For 3 roles, there is no combination that causes a reset.
For 4 roles, there are also 15 possible picks. Total sum of picks is 12, so those that are larger than 8 are exactly those where the not-chosen ones are smaller than 4, i.e. the inverse settings of the 2 role scenario. So also a 1/3 chance of reset.

The chance of 2 or 4 being chosen is thus 1/3*2/3 + 1/3*1/3*1/3*2/3+(1/3)^4*1/3*2/3+... or put differently, 2/9*sum( (1/9)^i) = 2/9*9/8=1/4.

Thus the chance of 3 roles is 50%.

pretty sure this is wrong. Should be 3/7 chance of 3 roles and 2/7 each of 2 and 4. As you say, there’s a 1/3 chance of a reset if 2 is rolled. That makes it 1.5x as likely that 3 is rolled. Sorry if I missed someone else pointing it out.

I don't think anybody did point out...

 Another way: the infinite sum for getting 2 should just be sum((2/9)^n), since the odds of not settling on a configuration on any attempt are 1/3*2/3 (1/3 failure on a 2 or a 4) while the odds of success on specifically 2 are 2/3*1/3, and that sums to (2/9)/(7/9) = 2/7.