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Author Topic: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- GAME OVER  (Read 235082 times)

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Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1800 on: October 08, 2017, 03:29:14 pm »

And, for Galz's sake: this is not me trying to rally people to your lynch because I am 100% convinced you're scum. This is me trying to understand why people seem to think you're town.

Because people have differences in opinion. What you've claimed as me saying one thing (see: Poisoner), others have seen as me saying exactly what I did.

You've since changed tact on that and claimed I was trying to direct tracking roles? What? That's nonsensical. I would've tracked iguana N1, yes, but absolutely nowhere did I suggest a tracker do so. I'm literally the definition of "Each player gets to play their PR however they want." I never brought up tracker, or suggested anything about one.

Unlike e...

Probably not a good lynch for today.

Was this referring to LL or iguana as the lynch? I parsed it as Iguana beforehand because it was just after his claim, but looking back, you may have been referring to LL.

I'm thinking the flaw we have with inviting a poisoner to claim and then keeping him alive is that there's a huge lag between him poisoning someone and the rest of us seeing evidence of the death. Like, if he poisons someone tonight, his target doesn't die till N2, and we don't have the opportunity to do anything about it till D3. Is everyone who's advocating for keeping Iguana around remembering the long timeframe here?

Investigative roles exist. Not to say a tracker (if they exist) should track iguana....

But you haven't accused him of doing what you've accused me of doing... you're simply looking with EXTREME bias at everything I say and do, whereas others are not.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1801 on: October 08, 2017, 03:45:55 pm »

I accuse Galz of doing X underhandedly.
Galz says "What ? I didn't do X explicitly ! So biased !"

Also, why would I be biased ? confirmation Bias ? I changed my mind on you, like five times, so no.
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1802 on: October 08, 2017, 03:54:38 pm »

I accuse Galz of doing X underhandedly.
Galz says "What ? I didn't do X explicitly ! So biased !"

Also, why would I be biased ? confirmation Bias ? I changed my mind on you, like five times, so no.

I didn't do "X" PERIOD. What the hell do you want me to say? You've literally spent the ENTIRE game putting words in my mouth! So you tell me what else to call it other than a ridiculous and unfounded bias at every level. Take the damn blinders off man.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1803 on: October 08, 2017, 04:00:20 pm »

This game is called mafia. This is a game in which people lie. I'm accusing you of lying, I'm not expecting you to have a constructive response to that, no, because there is no constructive response to that. You are accusing me of being biased and putting words in your mouth without adressing my arguments: I'm saying the result of what you were saying was that it would encourage a Tracker to track iguana. If you were town, this might not have been your intention, but I contend that you were scum trying to entice a Tracker to do that because that's in your faction's interest. That's not "putting words in your mouth", that's just, what I think you were doing.

Your answer is "No." WHich is fine, but it doesn't exactly disprove anything... nor should it.
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1804 on: October 08, 2017, 04:02:21 pm »

The bottom line is: whatever it is that you were doing with the poisoner thing felt entirely pointless to me if you were town, and I think you would have dropped it way earlier if that were the case (you being town). But you kept on, and I can see why you'd want to do that if you were scum. This is my argument.

Now, again, you're not supposed to have a response to that, that's not the point. I'm putting this to non:Galzria people, because your response to this is frankly irrelevant.
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1805 on: October 08, 2017, 04:03:56 pm »

This game is called mafia. This is a game in which people lie. I'm accusing you of lying, I'm not expecting you to have a constructive response to that, no, because there is no constructive response to that. You are accusing me of being biased and putting words in your mouth without adressing my arguments: I'm saying the result of what you were saying was that it would encourage a Tracker to track iguana. If you were town, this might not have been your intention, but I contend that you were scum trying to entice a Tracker to do that because that's in your faction's interest. That's not "putting words in your mouth", that's just, what I think you were doing.

Your answer is "No." WHich is fine, but it doesn't exactly disprove anything... nor should it.

That's fine - but you asked why others don't see it. It's because there's nothing there to see. I could literally argue "Player X is simply scum and lying" about literally anything. The burden of proof is on the accuser. There's nothing to what you've accused me of - so yes, I can't defend it. But you shouldn't be surprised when others don't agree with you either. There's nothing of substance to agree with.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1806 on: October 08, 2017, 04:08:21 pm »

WHy can't you let people answer for themselves if you're so confident there's nothing to see ?
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1807 on: October 08, 2017, 04:09:08 pm »

WHy can't you let people answer for themselves if you're so confident there's nothing to see ?

They already did. You didn't like the responded.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1808 on: October 08, 2017, 04:10:31 pm »

Also, there is something to argue about, as I've just said above. You're not the one I'm interested in arguing with because either
a) you're scum and lying
or
b) you're town and obviously not receptive to any argument about you being scum

Can we please stop acting as if this wasn't incredibly basic mafia stuff ? Arguing with people you think is scum about why you think they're scum is pointless. It always has been. It always will be.

PPE: Not really they didn't.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1809 on: October 08, 2017, 04:13:54 pm »

I guess that was unnecessarily mean, you've been V/LA. Still, I'd like to know who exactly you think is scum here (aside from O and me, if that's still a thing).
I don't know yet. As I said, I have more time tomorrow. I plan on examining things more closely instead of jumping to conclusions.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1810 on: October 08, 2017, 04:20:13 pm »

Also, there is something to argue about, as I've just said above. You're not the one I'm interested in arguing with because either
a) you're scum and lying
or
b) you're town and obviously not receptive to any argument about you being scum

Can we please stop acting as if this wasn't incredibly basic mafia stuff ? Arguing with people you think is scum about why you think they're scum is pointless. It always has been. It always will be.

PPE: Not really they didn't.

Or, you know, C) I'm town, and you're town, and WE LOSE if I can't convince you that your case is, and always has been, nonsensical. But you're absolutely unwilling to consider it. Tell me oh great Mafia master: what should I do instead? Not respond? Let you run town into a loss by ignoring you and letting you convince JUST ONE ADDITIONAL TOWN that I'm scum? I've made cases against the people I think are scum. I'll be continuing to expand upon them. In the meantime, I refuse to simply ignore you and let you carry the town to a loss. It's on my record too if you do. I'm not scum, don't care to lose, and will do everything in my power to prevent you from convincing even a single other townie into voting for me.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1811 on: October 08, 2017, 04:25:04 pm »

You're not reading my posts, so you might as well ignore them, yes.
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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1812 on: October 08, 2017, 04:25:37 pm »

I'll tell you right now: I do not answer well to AtE, so whatever your faction is, it is in your interest to not do that.
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Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1813 on: October 08, 2017, 04:28:31 pm »

And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?

Now THAT is nonsensical.

Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.

If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1814 on: October 08, 2017, 04:36:31 pm »

And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?

Now THAT is nonsensical.

Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.

If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?

It's not exclusively alignment indicative, and Space knows this. They took Watcher as scum from draft 2 last time. They took Watcher from draft 3 this time. There's no difference. They were scum last time, they could be either this time.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1815 on: October 08, 2017, 04:37:30 pm »

Specifically I mean Watcher over Gunsmith.

I get why you'd do that as scum. Watcher is obviously much better there. My question is why do it as town ?
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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1816 on: October 08, 2017, 04:39:59 pm »

I had Space at #2 in my head for this draft, but you're right they were #3 of course. I guess that's a little more understandable, since I'd expect a town #2 to go Gunsmith.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1817 on: October 08, 2017, 04:48:59 pm »

Specifically I mean Watcher over Gunsmith.

I get why you'd do that as scum. Watcher is obviously much better there. My question is why do it as town ?

Space would do it because I think Space values the PR more. That was their argument before anyway.

I considered Gunsmith from draft 4. But I was fairly confident I would get it based on nobody going for it last game. Ultimately I thought attempting to deny scum Poisoner was more valuable. I still feel this way, given the strength of the role for scum.

But back to Space... They were 2nd Draft last game. Almost certain Draft 1 was SK and would go Mother. Space had their absolute choice on which PR to take and took Watcher exclusively because they felt that's what Town Space would do.

If they are town here, to take something different would be weird. I actually expect both scum Space and town Space to take Watcher here every time just... because that's what Space values.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1818 on: October 08, 2017, 05:18:49 pm »

And what are thoses cases against people being scum again ? That DatSwan is a poisoner because he bid 4 the last game ?

Now THAT is nonsensical.

Scum decide their bids collectively, so a pattern over the two games is indicative of town if anything.

If you want to be useful: what do you think of Space's pick of Watcher, given where they were in the draft ?

My argument on Swan is based largely on that yes. More it's based on a collective of things:

A) Somebody on scum went 4 or 8. This player is likely now claiming Iguanas spot. That's going to narrow it down to the mid-range claims (most likely).

B) I don't believe Swan would've chosen 23 as their bid if town.

C) Swan has spent a lot of the game speculating about what he wouldn't do as scum. I didn't see that much in 105. Moreover, he's spent little time attempting to find scum - something I think is significantly harder to do in your first scum game.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1819 on: October 08, 2017, 05:28:36 pm »

A) It's very possible that there's more going on that simply a swap between iguana and the Poisoner, but sure.  Also - and I understand this is not relevant for you but it's worth saying - you're also a candidate for being the straight iguana replacement, with your VT claim. But ok.

B) This is what I really don't get. I keep forgetting you know each other IRL, so I guess there's that, because otherwise I just don't follow. 23 is kind of a vanilla bid, I could see anyone make it.

C) That seems like the way more relevant part of your argument to me. I think DatSwan has done some townie things too, and I can see how he would also have trouble scumhunting just being town in a big game. He almost skipped D1 in M105, and only came through much later on.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1820 on: October 08, 2017, 05:32:35 pm »

A) It's very possible that there's more going on that simply a swap between iguana and the Poisoner, but sure.  Also - and I understand this is not relevant for you but it's worth saying - you're also a candidate for being the straight iguana replacement, with your VT claim. But ok.

B) This is what I really don't get. I keep forgetting you know each other IRL, so I guess there's that, because otherwise I just don't follow. 23 is kind of a vanilla bid, I could see anyone make it.

C) That seems like the way more relevant part of your argument to me. I think DatSwan has done some townie things too, and I can see how he would also have trouble scumhunting just being town in a big game. He almost skipped D1 in M105, and only came through much later on.

Just in response to your point in A) - Sure, from your perspective I am. But let's assume I'm actually where Iguana was. Iguana was a Goon. What did he bid on that crossed paths with draft #2/#3 that got him bounced?
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1821 on: October 08, 2017, 05:42:31 pm »

As I said, I don't think it's necessarily a 1-to-1 swap. If you're scum, I don't believe whoever got your slot missed, they're just a role scum doesn't want to claim.
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1822 on: October 08, 2017, 05:43:32 pm »

A) It's very possible that there's more going on that simply a swap between iguana and the Poisoner, but sure.  Also - and I understand this is not relevant for you but it's worth saying - you're also a candidate for being the straight iguana replacement, with your VT claim. But ok.

B) This is what I really don't get. I keep forgetting you know each other IRL, so I guess there's that, because otherwise I just don't follow. 23 is kind of a vanilla bid, I could see anyone make it.

C) That seems like the way more relevant part of your argument to me. I think DatSwan has done some townie things too, and I can see how he would also have trouble scumhunting just being town in a big game. He almost skipped D1 in M105, and only came through much later on.

In regards to B), it's just that In know how I approached this game's bidding: it was to look at and improve on the bidding from last game. Space has said they did the same. In fact I looked at everyone awhile back and -most- people bid in ways that would show a desire to improve. Swan going to 23 doesn't really do this. That bid change doesn't really make sense to me from a town perspective.

I mean, I could definitely be wrong on Swan. RR could definitely be in the mix instead. He's basically null and could be anywhere. But the combination of things regarding Swan just feel off to me.

I think the absolute best place to find scum is e - but I also really don't think he's the poisoner.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1823 on: October 08, 2017, 05:45:05 pm »

As I said, I don't think it's necessarily a 1-to-1 swap. If you're scum, I don't believe whoever got your slot missed, they're just a role scum doesn't want to claim.

Right, and that's reasonable. But you said I was a candidate for a straight Iguana replacement, which I don't think is really viable. Scum could be round-robbining  though, certainly.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Teproc

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Re: Mafia 108: LOST Mafia by Robz and Mcmc -- Day 4
« Reply #1824 on: October 08, 2017, 05:46:56 pm »

Which... huh. Actually what would that be ? Roleblocker was my first thought, but really why not claim that, it prevents Qvist from being an IC ? Especially given that Watcher and Tracker were out of the way, scum was pretty comfortable in their fakeclaiming here.

Let's see...

Strongman you don't want to claim, but there wouldn't be a missing kill so that's out.
Bomb you don't want to claim, but that's only if e is scum (and lying about the Barracks).
Role Cop you can claim just fine.
Investigation Immune you don't want to claim but that's only if e is scum.
Ninja you don't want to claim but that's only if e is scum.

Hm. That's worth thinking about actually. unvote for now.

PPE: 2
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