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Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 78034 times)

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William Howard Taft

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2019, 06:38:33 pm »
0

I'd call a couple of Duplicates to get more Gold from my Leprechaun - oops, now it's a Hex

Duplicating the Golds won’t get you hexed. Sceptering or Royal Carriaging the Leprechaun will, though.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #251 on: October 30, 2019, 07:40:45 pm »
+6

I'd call a couple of Duplicates to get more Gold from my Leprechaun - oops, now it's a Hex

Duplicating the Golds won’t get you hexed. Sceptering or Royal Carriaging the Leprechaun will, though.

He's talking about if Leprachaun was your 7th card in play--calling the duplicate gives you another gold and puts the duplicate in play (making you now have 8 cards in play before the instructions on Leprachaun continue) before the rest of the instructions on Leprachaun resolves. I just tried it online, and it does give you a Hex this way. You can simply avoid this by making Leprachaun the 6th card in play before you call the Duplicate, though.
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crj

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #252 on: October 31, 2019, 06:43:35 pm »
0

That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.
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markusin

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #253 on: October 31, 2019, 08:53:55 pm »
+2

That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.

But on the card, the "If X then A" check comes after the Gold gain, in a separate sentence. You are only testing for the seven cards after the Gold gain. So, if you call Duplicate on the Gold, you'll have an extra card in play when it comes time to decide between Hex or Wish.

In case people forgot, you get the Gold from Leprechaun either way.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 08:56:57 pm by markusin »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2019, 01:42:08 am »
+1

That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

But they are talking about calling it in response to the Gold, which all happens before the if/else.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #255 on: November 01, 2019, 10:38:16 am »
0

That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

But they are talking about calling it in response to the Gold, which all happens before the if/else.

I tried using Duplicate on the gaining of Wish to see what would happen in Dominion Online. You're correct--you don't get a second Wish, and you don't get a Hex, either.
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AJD

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #256 on: November 01, 2019, 12:22:32 pm »
0

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

This is actually kind of surprising to me. I guess "otherwise" means 'if the thing in the previous sentence didn't happen', not 'if you don't meet the condition in the previous sentence'. If it were the latter, I would expect a Hex.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #257 on: November 01, 2019, 01:05:29 pm »
+3

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

This is actually kind of surprising to me. I guess "otherwise" means 'if the thing in the previous sentence didn't happen', not 'if you don't meet the condition in the previous sentence'. If it were the latter, I would expect a Hex.

I have always read "otherwise" as the English version of "else" in programming languages. And I think common English usage backs this up... people generally will read "otherwise" as meaning you will only ever do one or the other; never both.
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crj

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #258 on: November 01, 2019, 07:58:58 pm »
0

(Yeah, OK - I thought we were talking about calling Duplicate on the Wish-gaining, not the Gold-gaining. Though I accept in hindsight that's pretty unlikely given you wouldn't actually get a second Wish that way!)
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spineflu

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #259 on: November 08, 2019, 11:30:37 am »
+5

Using Madman via Innovation. Whoops.
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leapoffaith24

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #260 on: November 26, 2019, 03:41:13 pm »
0

Ghost/Golem and Beggar!! OOF
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #261 on: December 28, 2019, 10:35:08 pm »
0

Not exactly an anti-synergy, but since it's new and some might think it lays opposite, if you have capitalism in play and play a Storyteller it only counts as one coin, not the 5 my opponent hoped would happen when luckily he played it before i did (and was going to try it until then).  Which kinda doesn't make sense, if you get like 5 coins from playing a IGG why wouldn't story teller count as 5 if it has a 5 coin amount on it?
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #262 on: December 28, 2019, 10:47:16 pm »
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actually just read the text closer, and i guess it makes sense.  I guess I never read it that close. It only specifies the costs of the 3 coins you play not storyteller. Still good to know.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #263 on: May 14, 2020, 09:13:43 am »
+1

Cardinal/Gatekeeper and Knights

At least trashing attacks give you the potential to get your Knight back with Lurker or Graverobber. Exiling a Knight means they’re gone forever.

Extra painful for Sir Vander. Now you can’t even get a lousy Gold!
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spineflu

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #264 on: May 14, 2020, 09:19:41 am »
+1

Cardinal/Gatekeeper and Knights

At least trashing attacks give you the potential to get your Knight back with Lurker or Graverobber. Exiling a Knight means they’re gone forever.

Extra painful for Sir Vander. Now you can’t even get a lousy Gold!

unless Transport is in the kingdom
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D782802859

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #265 on: May 14, 2020, 03:32:14 pm »
+1

Cardinal/Gatekeeper and Knights

At least trashing attacks give you the potential to get your Knight back with Lurker or Graverobber. Exiling a Knight means they’re gone forever.

Extra painful for Sir Vander. Now you can’t even get a lousy Gold!
Same for the Prizes and, most of the time, the Castles, not that you really want Castles in your deck most of the time.
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LittleFish

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #266 on: May 14, 2020, 08:33:02 pm »
0

Cardinal/Gatekeeper and Knights

At least trashing attacks give you the potential to get your Knight back with Lurker or Graverobber. Exiling a Knight means they’re gone forever.

Extra painful for Sir Vander. Now you can’t even get a lousy Gold!
Same for the Prizes and, most of the time, the Castles, not that you really want Castles in your deck most of the time.
most of the castles that have duplicates are the ones you want in your deck
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spineflu

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #267 on: May 27, 2020, 02:04:12 pm »
+4

"ah, they're going for a gardens strategy," i think, "I'll embargo gardens - heck, I'll embargo it twice."
the extra curses pushed them over the next decile for deck quantity. oops.
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ipofanes

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #268 on: March 04, 2021, 01:09:29 pm »
0

Rogue in a kingdom with Necromancer. For some rason, my opponent bought a Rogue anyway.
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silverspawn

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #269 on: March 04, 2021, 02:44:15 pm »
+1

Rogue in a kingdom with Necromancer. For some rason, my opponent bought a Rogue anyway.


I know the reason
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #270 on: March 04, 2021, 10:50:06 pm »
0

Stealing the Zombies from the trash?
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jomini

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #271 on: March 05, 2021, 11:56:33 am »
+1

Stealing the Zombies from the trash?

You can also use any sort of TfB and gain back the trashed component with Rogue. For instance, if you are running Apprentice for big draw. A few Rogues let you gain $6 feed (e.g. Gold) from the trash to turn into draw. All told if you play Apprentice(G) -> Rogue you net +3 cards/+2$ which is on net what you get from Hunting grounds, Bazaar, and a +1 coin token on either. Apprentice is particularly good as you can trash back Zombies. There, of course, a million odd other useful combos for trash diving (e.g. Small castle, Groundskeeper/action-VP/trashing) so that you may want to go Rogue even without ever pulling out a Zombie.

Even absent a combo, it can be pretty decent if the other guy opens Necromancer to open Rogue in hopes of shutting down his early trashing and leaving him with a dead card throughout the game. It is not like the Zombies are all that terrible to have in your deck and it only takes 3 plays to clear them out.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #272 on: March 11, 2022, 12:01:26 am »
+4

Was thinking Faithful Hound would protect me from the gang of pickpockets. I was wrong.

spineflu

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #273 on: March 11, 2022, 12:24:02 am »
+4

Was thinking Faithful Hound would protect me from the gang of pickpockets. I was wrong.

yeah suddenly i have to care about what order duration draw happens at the start of next turn. I had played a highwayman and did that before Gang of Pickpockets and uh whoops
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J Reggie

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #274 on: March 12, 2022, 08:31:46 am »
+4

If you buy Band of Misfits in a kingdom with Family of Inventors, your opponent can screw you over by making BoM cheaper.
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