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Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 22676 times)

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William Howard Taft

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2019, 06:38:33 pm »
0

I'd call a couple of Duplicates to get more Gold from my Leprechaun - oops, now it's a Hex

Duplicating the Golds won’t get you hexed. Sceptering or Royal Carriaging the Leprechaun will, though.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #251 on: October 30, 2019, 07:40:45 pm »
+4

I'd call a couple of Duplicates to get more Gold from my Leprechaun - oops, now it's a Hex

Duplicating the Golds won’t get you hexed. Sceptering or Royal Carriaging the Leprechaun will, though.

He's talking about if Leprachaun was your 7th card in play--calling the duplicate gives you another gold and puts the duplicate in play (making you now have 8 cards in play before the instructions on Leprachaun continue) before the rest of the instructions on Leprachaun resolves. I just tried it online, and it does give you a Hex this way. You can simply avoid this by making Leprachaun the 6th card in play before you call the Duplicate, though.
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crj

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #252 on: October 31, 2019, 06:43:35 pm »
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That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.
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markusin

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #253 on: October 31, 2019, 08:53:55 pm »
+1

That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.

But on the card, the "If X then A" check comes after the Gold gain, in a separate sentence. You are only testing for the seven cards after the Gold gain. So, if you call Duplicate on the Gold, you'll have an extra card in play when it comes time to decide between Hex or Wish.

In case people forgot, you get the Gold from Leprechaun either way.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 08:56:57 pm by markusin »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2019, 01:42:08 am »
+1

That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

But they are talking about calling it in response to the Gold, which all happens before the if/else.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #255 on: November 01, 2019, 10:38:16 am »
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That feels kinda wrong to me.

If the card had said "If you have exactly 7 cards in play, gain a Wish. If you do not have exactly 7 cards in play, receive a Hex." then I'd agree with that interpretation. But "If X then A. Otherwise B." very strongly suggests that you do B if X did not hold when you tested it.

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

But they are talking about calling it in response to the Gold, which all happens before the if/else.

I tried using Duplicate on the gaining of Wish to see what would happen in Dominion Online. You're correct--you don't get a second Wish, and you don't get a Hex, either.
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AJD

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #256 on: November 01, 2019, 12:22:32 pm »
0

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

This is actually kind of surprising to me. I guess "otherwise" means 'if the thing in the previous sentence didn't happen', not 'if you don't meet the condition in the previous sentence'. If it were the latter, I would expect a Hex.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #257 on: November 01, 2019, 01:05:29 pm »
+3

This point would apply if they were talking about calling a Duplicate in response to gaining the Wish (which you can do, although it won’t get you a second Wish). In that case, I expect you are right; you won’t receive the Hex.  The if was already fulfilled; so you won’t do the else/otherwise.

This is actually kind of surprising to me. I guess "otherwise" means 'if the thing in the previous sentence didn't happen', not 'if you don't meet the condition in the previous sentence'. If it were the latter, I would expect a Hex.

I have always read "otherwise" as the English version of "else" in programming languages. And I think common English usage backs this up... people generally will read "otherwise" as meaning you will only ever do one or the other; never both.
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crj

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #258 on: November 01, 2019, 07:58:58 pm »
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(Yeah, OK - I thought we were talking about calling Duplicate on the Wish-gaining, not the Gold-gaining. Though I accept in hindsight that's pretty unlikely given you wouldn't actually get a second Wish that way!)
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #259 on: November 08, 2019, 11:30:37 am »
+3

Using Madman via Innovation. Whoops.
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