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Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 3164 times)

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Titandrake

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 01:41:27 am »
+1

Today I set aside Ironworks with Inheritance. "This'll be great! I can pile down the Estates because Ironworks gaining Estate will give +1 Card +1 Action".

It turns out that after you pile the Estates, a deck with 10+ Ironworks is really bad at doing anything besides gaining Actions that cost < $4.

(Setting aside a better action and using 1-2 Ironworks to gain the Estates works a lot better.)

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mameluke

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2017, 06:26:30 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2017, 06:49:10 pm »
+1

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

gloures

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2017, 06:52:04 pm »
+2

Today I set aside Ironworks with Inheritance. "This'll be great! I can pile down the Estates because Ironworks gaining Estate will give +1 Card +1 Action".

It turns out that after you pile the Estates, a deck with 10+ Ironworks is really bad at doing anything besides gaining Actions that cost < $4.

(Setting aside a better action and using 1-2 Ironworks to gain the Estates works a lot better.)

I did this once and soon realized my mistake, my opponent didn´t though and resigned just as i emptied the estate pile...  :P
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mameluke

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2017, 08:34:57 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

Sure, I guess. I think the point was that if you are intending to pick up HGs, you'll get something else before you get them even if you didn't want it. Maybe Catacombs is a better choice, but it's easier to choke on the green.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2017, 09:13:44 pm »
0

That's a legit rush strategy there.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2017, 09:22:15 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

Sure, I guess. I think the point was that if you are intending to pick up HGs, you'll get something else before you get them even if you didn't want it. Maybe Catacombs is a better choice, but it's easier to choke on the green.

Yeah, but his point is that if those two cards are on the board, the Duchy rush is pretty much always going to be a better strategy than whatever fancy pants engine is possible.
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2017, 03:10:13 am »
0

Yeah, but his point is that if those two cards are on the board, the Duchy rush is pretty much always going to be a better strategy than whatever fancy pants engine is possible.

Well, this isn't exactly true either. You definitely have to contest the Lurkers, but after your opponent puts some Hunting Groundses into the trash, you can use your Lurkers to gain a bunch of them for free, which is also extremely strong and it may allow you to build an engine that's capable of getting Provinces fast enough that you can catch up on points and then just use the Lurkers to 3-pile the game for the win just like the rush would.

Sidsel

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2017, 09:21:14 am »
0

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)
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Limetime

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2017, 09:23:04 am »
0

I piled in 11 turns using lurker hunting grounds uncontested. I had 8 duchies and 6 estates and the game ended with lurker, hunting grounds and duchies. It probably speeds up significantly in a mirror.
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2017, 11:23:11 am »
+3

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)

Getting a second Fortune is pretty often pretty good even without Wolf's Den, unless you have +buy in your engine components. At that stage, +buy is super valuable, and Fortune does it non-terminally.

Chris is me

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2017, 02:07:55 pm »
+1

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)

Getting a second Fortune is pretty often pretty good even without Wolf's Den, unless you have +buy in your engine components. At that stage, +buy is super valuable, and Fortune does it non-terminally.

Been saying this for a long time. A second Fortune is correct way more often than the card would imply at first glance due to the scarcity of nonterminal +Buy.
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aku_chi

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2017, 02:14:45 pm »
+2

Been saying this for a long time. A second Fortune is correct way more often than the card would imply at first glance due to the scarcity of nonterminal +Buy.

The opportunity cost of the second Fortune is a Province (at the very least).  You'd need to play the second Fortune at least two times to get any advantage over the Province line.  So, I'd only consider buying a second Fortune as non-terminal +buy if there was significant Alt-VP (and I was otherwise buy-limited).
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 02:16:06 pm by aku_chi »
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Chappy7

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2017, 02:26:34 pm »
+2

Inheritance-Crossroads.

This is awesome! Inheritance loves estates, and crossroads loves estates! My first Estate will give me +3 Actions and all of them will self synergize and draw tons of cards! I can just buy all of them and be unstoppable!

Oh, what? I don't get +3 Actions ever? Now my deck is just full of tons of terminal draw? gg, Resign.

This happened to my opponent last week.  Luckily I had just read about this annoying anti-synergy on fds somewhere, so I didn't fall for it. 



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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2017, 02:52:08 pm »
+1

You'd need to play the second Fortune at least two times to get any advantage over the Province line.

Well, that's not really true because of PPR considerations. It's usually better to have a card in your deck that allows you to gain a Province (even if it's just once) than having the Province, just so you don't have to end your turn with one fewer Province left in the supply.

Furthermore, it's a pretty common scenario that you'll still have two more turns before the game ends.

Seprix

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2017, 03:25:02 pm »
+14

Distant Islands: Get Island, set aside Distant Lands. Now Distant Lands is even more distant!
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luser

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2017, 03:19:18 am »
0

crossroad-haunted woods attack helps opponent who could just draw lot of cards with topdecked crossroads.
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aku_chi

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2017, 08:42:10 am »
0

Advance + Tactician

Advance can help you gain Tacticians, but the Advance fun ends once you play Tactician.
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ackmondual

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2017, 03:22:34 am »
+3

Goons + Events
I have enough an Event or two... Buying Events doesn't trigger the VP gain :(
I'll jus get a Wedding, Dominate, some Delves... same difference.. you gain those cards, NOT buy them :(

Castles, Prizes, and/or Knights + Wolf Den
Variety is not the name of this game!

Shanty Town + Pathfinder
Alright!  I have a hand with a Shanty Town and no action cards!  +3 cards for me!
Play Shanty Town, draw an action card, reveal hand... nope!  Just 1 card for you!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:27:39 am by ackmondual »
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Kirian

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2017, 02:49:20 am »
+1

Inheritance + Tokens

Estates don't Inherit the name of the card they've copied.  So that +1 Card token on Peddler only works when you play a Peddler, not an Estate/Peddler.
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2017, 09:13:29 am »
+4

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.

Here, have a penguin ;)

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sorawotobu

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2017, 03:36:07 pm »
+3

Lurker + Hunting Party
You really want to draw Lurkers in pairs but Hunting Party will skip additional Lurkers if you already have one. Playing Lurker before Hunting Party lets you get around that but if you whiff on the second Lurker the action card you trashed will be there for your opponent to grab.
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Dingan

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2017, 01:57:27 am »
0

Cultist / Counterfeit

Counterfeit - clear out the Coppers, yay! But ... in a typical Cultist/Ruins battle, Coppers can be decent. In other words, a deck of 4 Cultists, a Counterfeit, 3 Estates, 4 to 6 Ruins, like 1 or 2 Silvers, and nothing else just stinks. A few Coppers can actually make it better.

I feel like Counterfeit can be worth it in that by making your deck smaller, you can chain more Cultists early to win the Ruins split. But I'm just not convinced this is actually a thing - i.e. I might rather that Counterfeit just be, say, another Cultist.
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cascadestyler

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2017, 10:32:26 am »
+1

Cultist / Counterfeit

Counterfeit - clear out the Coppers, yay! But ... in a typical Cultist/Ruins battle, Coppers can be decent. In other words, a deck of 4 Cultists, a Counterfeit, 3 Estates, 4 to 6 Ruins, like 1 or 2 Silvers, and nothing else just stinks. A few Coppers can actually make it better.

I feel like Counterfeit can be worth it in that by making your deck smaller, you can chain more Cultists early to win the Ruins split. But I'm just not convinced this is actually a thing - i.e. I might rather that Counterfeit just be, say, another Cultist.

A non-terminal trasher (like Counterfiet) is about the best thing you can put in a cultist deck. If you actually had that deck you described with just 1 silver then it would suck, but why on earth would you ever get rid of all your copper and only replace it with one silver? Chances are you have two silvers if you were opening towards a cultish rush anyway, and you'd pick up a 2nd one at some point in your cultish rush by default anyway. The deck you've described with 2 silvers sounds awesome. That's going to draw itself every turn without fail, hand out 4 ruins a go, produce $7 on it's first cycle and buy a gold, the depending on whether there's any virtual money or handy kingdom treasure like relic you'll transition through that or through a bit more gold into a lovely reliable province-buying deck that destroys your opponent.
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LaLight

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2017, 03:11:41 am »
0

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.
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