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Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 11980 times)

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Chase Adolphson

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #175 on: February 23, 2018, 12:05:22 am »
+3

Donate/chapel
I used donate to trash my coppers and my estates. Wait, why did I buy a chapel, then.
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William Howard Taft

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #176 on: February 25, 2018, 04:35:18 pm »
0

Wandering Minstrel does not play well with Night cards that aren't Werewolf.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #177 on: February 26, 2018, 07:07:18 pm »
0

Thief and harem
Thief steals your harem. You gave them victory points, and you lost victory points.

That's not.. What card anti-synergies means, is cards in your own deck that just don't work well together. Like Tactician and any Night Cards. You can't play both Tactician and Night cards*, so there is an anti synergy there.

(You can also cheat and play a Werewolf before the Tactician, and say that is a Night card, which is correct but you know what I mean)

*you actually can, but it involves cost reduction to set aside a Tactician with Prince and another draw card set aside with Prince as well. Summoning also works in this way, as does Ghost, and any beginning of turn play Action cards. It's also not good.
A more sensible way to play Tactician and Night cards involves Golem. Which can be good in the right circumstances.
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jomini

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #178 on: February 27, 2018, 12:55:34 am »
+1

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Nah, Count does fine.

Say you can make your $5 without treasures. The simplest option is something like Candlestick/Count. You save up a coin, trash away everything with Count (top deck the Candlestick), and then next turn play the Candlestick and Count (discard nothing). This is an easy shot for a very nice Windfall.

More generally, you can just use Count as Trash 3/2 card and build up some Coin. 3 Plays of count will trash out 9 starting cards (net), this allows you to buy two silvers and keep a copper; don't play the Count for a turn when you buy the Windfall. After that you basically get a Province a turn and you can nurse the treasures along with top decking/discard as needed. You even can grab the odd duchy towards the end. Opening a $5 Count means I can Windfall ~ T8-10. Any sort of support (like Haven) will likely take this down around T7-9.

Never underestimate the pure raw power of good trashing in Dominion.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #179 on: February 27, 2018, 09:17:12 am »
+2

Raze isn't so helpful once you have a few Bridge Trolls in play. 
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jomini

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #180 on: February 28, 2018, 08:08:24 am »
+6

Wandering Minstrel does not play well with Night cards that aren't Werewolf.

I would submit that Wandering Minstrel actually plays excellently with Night cards. For most Wm boards you want to be building an engine, the biggest problem with engines is having the engine whiff. Wm bottom decks something like half your stop cards (coins, green, nights) so you can much more reliably draw everything. Say nights and golds are your only payload - everything else is village/draw/+buy; ideally you want to have all your village/draw in the top half of your deck and all your payload in the bottom. Wm does this nicely. He makes your engine vastly more reliable at drawing through and he does so at a much lower opportunity cost than many other options.

Wm gets better with Nights when you time his addition to your deck well. Early on you may care more about playing power Nights than about deck drawing (e.g. Monastery), so do not buy Wm until after they are less useful. Conversely a lot of fun Night tricks are better after you are drawing deck (e.g. Changeling is mostly worthless until you can draw deck), don't bother with them until you can draw through. If you have double villages out, then certainly take the other one early and add in Wm in later.

It really is no different than Plats here. Sure may have a mid-game turn or two where you miss the plat from Wm, but pretty quickly your engine should hit and you can spend fewer buys on maintaining reliability. Reliable deck drawing is just that idiotically powerful.
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jomini

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #181 on: February 28, 2018, 08:26:20 am »
+1

Donate/chapel
I used donate to trash my coppers and my estates. Wait, why did I buy a chapel, then.

I've gotten decent mileage out of Chap/Donate on boards with Junking/On trash effects. Sure Donate can do most everything Chap can ... it just costs $8 per use. My personal favorite was Donate/Chap/Market square. Optimal play is almost always open Chap/Msqr -> Donate (possibly gaining a gold), keep 3(2) coppers. Then trash down the coppers and gain golds. Less powerfully, Squire can also make a Chap a good investment with attacks you want to spam (e.g. Werewolf).

Against junkers, like Cultist or Mountebank, Chap is likely a good addition with a spare $2. It costs a draw and an action, but it also saves you several $8 buys.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #182 on: February 28, 2018, 11:51:02 am »
+6

Haggler + debt-costing cards: you're forced to take Copper when you buy a debt-costing card with Haggler in play.
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crj

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #183 on: February 28, 2018, 01:55:57 pm »
0

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

And you're spoiled for choice if you buy a Fortune...
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #184 on: February 28, 2018, 02:04:57 pm »
+8

Haggler + Me when I forget that Haggler's gain is mandatory
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #185 on: February 28, 2018, 02:18:08 pm »
+1

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
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crj

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #186 on: February 28, 2018, 02:35:06 pm »
+1

...and how often will the average Dominion player Haggle a debt-costing card at all?
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #187 on: February 28, 2018, 03:02:01 pm »
+4

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Only assuming you play full random. Why do people always assume that?

Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #188 on: February 28, 2018, 03:32:08 pm »
0

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Only assuming you play full random. Why do people always assume that?

Because that's what you get when you automatch on ShiT.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #189 on: February 28, 2018, 05:11:44 pm »
0

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Only assuming you play full random. Why do people always assume that?

Because that's what you get when you automatch on ShiT.

I made a feature request to change that.
http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=2847.msg12597#msg12597

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #190 on: June 25, 2018, 07:41:56 am »
+2

Haggler + Me when I forget that Haggler's gain is mandatory

Haggler + Me when I forget that Haggler's gain is mandatory + Irritating butt-ass opponent who doesn't grant the simplest of no-info undos

I know that's a 3-part combo so might cause thread derailment arguments over what's a useful combo but I would plead that the second component is super-common and the third component is also much more common than any given card so the chance of this occuring is at least as high as any given 2-card combo.
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ipofanes

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #191 on: June 25, 2018, 08:25:18 am »
0

Haggler + debt-costing cards: you're forced to take Copper when you buy a debt-costing card with Haggler in play.

Not while there are Curses or Ruins in play.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #192 on: June 25, 2018, 08:29:11 am »
+1

Haggler + debt-costing cards: you're forced to take Copper when you buy a debt-costing card with Haggler in play.

Not while there are Curses or Ruins in play.
How would you even put Curses in play, and why does it matter?
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ipofanes

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #193 on: June 26, 2018, 03:20:51 am »
0

Sorry, I meant "in Supply".
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #194 on: July 14, 2018, 02:42:51 pm »
+1

Plaza + Black Market

You can't spend tokens while buying from Black Market. I played against someone who repeatedly discarded Coppers to Plaza then played Black Market and couldn't afford power cards.
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