Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 9 [All]

Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 13581 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« on: September 15, 2017, 09:46:26 am »
+11

We already have Neat and Potentially Useful Card Interactions. This thread is for warnings about interactions that seem good at first but turn out not to be so good.

I'll start with:

Poor House + Coin of the Realm
Coin can be a great way to play multiple Houses in one turn... But it's a treasure :(

Bridge (Troll) + City Quarter
City Quarter can be a great way to play multiple Bridge (Troll)s in one turn... But they don't actually lower its cost. You'll need some other way to get $, or you'll find yourself running out of it fast. Especially a problem with Bridge Troll, since it doesn't provide any $.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 10:02:16 am »
+2

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

Banquet is not a good Duchy/Duke enabler; while Copper helps you hit $5, Copper+green cards doesn't hit $5.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

4est

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 106
  • Shuffle iT Username: 4est
  • Respect: +387
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 10:22:34 am »
+8

Banquet is especially annoying for Duchy/Duke since it can't gain victory cards. 
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 11:24:29 am »
+11

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.
Logged

Cuzz

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 515
  • Shuffle iT Username: Cuzz
  • Respect: +841
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 01:07:18 pm »
+9

Me (early in the game): Let me buy this Overlord for maximum flexibility
Me (later in the game): So many wonderful choices here, but right this second I could really use a Duplicate.
Me (seconds later): Oh. Right.
Logged

mameluke

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 374
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 01:26:30 pm »
+3

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.

You can always buy Bonfire first to get rid of those pesky Bridge Trolls in play!
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 04:31:32 pm »
+2

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.

You can always buy Bonfire first to get rid of those pesky Bridge Trolls in play!

The particular problem with Ritual is that it happens during your buy phase, which is also when Peddler's cost reduction happens.
Logged

Skumpy

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 124
  • Shuffle iT Username: skumpy
  • Respect: +199
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 05:09:09 pm »
+3

Black Market + Capital

It's actually a decent combo if you know what you're doing. But if you're like me and you don't understand debt, it'ill be frustrating when you think you have enough money for that shiny $7 card early, and then you discover that you can't pay off debt in the Action phase. Try again later.
Logged
He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

sorawotobu

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +138
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 06:49:26 pm »
+8

In a similar vein, Storyteller + Capital

I've once had an opponent do it and I guess it could be reasonable some of the time but he didn't get any other money and just kept going deeper and deeper into debt. He resigned at 30 or so.
Logged

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3308
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2540
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 10:31:07 pm »
0

Here's two obvious ones:

Prince + Durations
Band of Misfits/Overlord + Reserve cards
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 616
  • Respect: +950
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 12:00:25 am »
+3

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5510
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3419
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 12:46:16 am »
+4

Playing Black Market/Storyteller and a Silver when you have a ton of Merchants left to play.

Upgrading coppers with Poor House on the board. We've all done it, don't lie.

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.

Please don't call them splitters.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 05:27:29 am »
+2

classical one:

Hm, board is just cultist bm.
20 turn later
Why are opponents vineyards worth so much?
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 07:23:59 am »
0

Please don't call them splitters.

Please don't promote the usage of vaguely defined terms when clearly defined alternatives exist.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 05:57:51 pm »
+3

Another antisynergy is trying to make bridge troll/higway with apprentice draw work.
Logged

Burning Skull

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1125
  • Shuffle iT Username: Burning Skull
  • See you in the Outpost
  • Respect: +1779
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 06:05:05 pm »
+15

Splitter was replaced by Village in 2-nd Edition.

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1711
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1906
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 06:16:35 pm »
+4

I tried to play Double Tactician into Vineyards once (No Black Market or Storyteller).
Logged

teamlyle

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Shuffle iT Username: La-Ya
  • Ah... German Hello?
  • Respect: +286
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2017, 06:18:27 pm »
+8

One I came by today: Torturer + Mountebank. Play Torturer, draw Mountebank, and your opponent takes the curse to block your Mountebank  :(
Logged
"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Im sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I dont want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 02:29:35 am »
0

One I came by today: Torturer + Mountebank. Play Torturer, draw Mountebank, and your opponent takes the curse to block your Mountebank  :(

Torturer-masq is worse. You run out of curses without cursing because opponents just gains them to send them via his or your masq to you.
Logged

infangthief

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +235
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 08:21:35 am »
+16

Cities are beginning to run low, so I want as many as I can... but until they actually run out they're not a lot of use. Hey wait, why don't I get some Overlords, they can do other useful things right now then I'll use them as Cities later.

(Later) Ho ho my opponent has obligingly emptied the Cities, now here I come with my super power Overlords...

Oh.
Logged
infangthief is in the lower 50% of commonly used words in the Collins dictionary

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 08:41:39 am »
0

Cities are beginning to run low, so I want as many as I can... but until they actually run out they're not a lot of use. Hey wait, why don't I get some Overlords, they can do other useful things right now then I'll use them as Cities later.

(Later) Ho ho my opponent has obligingly emptied the Cities, now here I come with my super power Overlords...

Oh.

I had an opponent do that in a game recently.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

McGarnacle

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1085
  • Shuffle iT Username: McGarnacle
  • So, ya like doughnuts, eh?
  • Respect: +630
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 09:08:20 am »
+1

Fool's Gold/Hunting Party
Logged
This is exactly the kind of deep analysis I come to f.ds for. 

Forum Mafia Record
Town 1/2 50%
Scum 0/0

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 882
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • lockjaw
  • Respect: +1245
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 01:48:48 pm »
+4

rebuild + kingdom cards
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'
6-9
he/him
beloved my john, i'll carry on

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 01:49:41 pm »
+2

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
Logged

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 616
  • Respect: +950
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 02:02:30 pm »
+4

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 02:08:01 pm »
+5

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
Logged

mameluke

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 374
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 03:03:10 pm »
+1

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.

You can always buy Bonfire first to get rid of those pesky Bridge Trolls in play!

The particular problem with Ritual is that it happens during your buy phase, which is also when Peddler's cost reduction happens.

Peddler's cost reduction is contingent on Action cards in play; Bonfire can get rid of those for you.
Logged

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 616
  • Respect: +950
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 04:49:32 pm »
0

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3678
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 04:52:59 pm »
+8

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.

If you've trashed all the Coppers in the supply you can.
Logged

trivialknot

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 616
  • Respect: +950
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 05:24:02 pm »
+3

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.

If you've trashed all the Coppers in the supply you can.
Oh I see.  I thought Dingan was referring to some ridiculous edge case, like having a Watchtower in hand.  I now see I was incorrect.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2017, 05:27:05 pm »
+2

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.

If you've trashed all the Coppers in the supply you can.
Oh I see.  I thought Dingan was referring to some ridiculous edge case, like having a Watchtower in hand.  I now see I was incorrect.

Well, he was referring to a ridiculous edge case, just a bit more ridiculous than you expected.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2017, 05:28:59 pm »
+6

Just trying to tell an annoying and potentially harmful joke :P
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2017, 07:14:09 pm »
+13

Sarcasm and the internet have an annoying and potentially harmful communication anti-synergy.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5510
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3419
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 12:37:06 am »
+3

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

E.Honda

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
  • Shuffle iT Username: E.Honda
  • Respect: +226
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2017, 07:08:20 pm »
+6

I recently played a game with tournament and mountain pass and noticed mountain pass makes it even more critical to get the province first, since when you buy it, your opponent has to bet afterwards and if they bet high, you simply pass and have several rounds where they pay off their debt, unable to buy a province and you can get the prices easily. If they bet low, well, you already have a province to take prices and the debt wont hurt you that much.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2017, 01:09:54 am »
+1

I recently played a game with tournament and mountain pass and noticed mountain pass makes it even more critical to get the province first, since when you buy it, your opponent has to bet afterwards and if they bet high, you simply pass and have several rounds where they pay off their debt, unable to buy a province and you can get the prices easily. If they bet low, well, you already have a province to take prices and the debt wont hurt you that much.

However, in Rebuild games with Mountain Pass, it's very critical to not get the first Province, because if your opponent bets 40 (as they should), you can't bet more than that and then they're going to have a very major advantage.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2017, 01:03:46 pm »
+4

Pretty obvious one, but hasn't been mentioned yet:

Armory + Gardens

Cheap gainers are normally a great way to rush gardens, but Armory gains those dead cards to the top of your deck.

And a less obvious one:

Overlord + Cultist

So, you can essentially gain a Cultist before your first shuffle no matter what your opening is. Great! Then comes the moment when you realize that Overlord can only be used at the START of a Cultist chain, not in the middle. D'oh!

Incidentally, the game I discovered this anti-synergy was a game I lost to a guy who bought nothing but Bakers. He didn't buy a single Cultist and got all 10 ruins, and he still won. No, I have no idea how it happened! But I suspect this blunder had something to do with it.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7070
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9310
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2017, 03:34:55 am »
+2

Playing Black Market/Storyteller and a Silver when you have a ton of Merchants left to play.

Upgrading coppers with Poor House on the board. We've all done it, don't lie.

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.

Please don't call them splitters.

[insert Life of Brian picture]
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 01:45:40 am »
+1

Armory + Gardens

Cheap gainers are normally a great way to rush gardens, but Armory gains those dead cards to the top of your deck.

I think this falls squarely in the "potentially harmful" category rather than the "Oh wow, that did not work at all" category that fits some of these others. I don't think I'd aim for this strategy, but if forced into Gardens, Armory is better than nothing.

Quote
Overlord + Cultist

I would fall for this, for sure.
Logged

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3308
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2540
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 12:41:31 pm »
+2

One I came by today: Torturer + Mountebank. Play Torturer, draw Mountebank, and your opponent takes the curse to block your Mountebank  :(

Torturer-masq is worse. You run out of curses without cursing because opponents just gains them to send them via his or your masq to you.

Are you sure you wouldn't be cursing in this situation?
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 03:55:23 pm »
0

I think this falls squarely in the "potentially harmful" category rather than the "Oh wow, that did not work at all" category that fits some of these others. I don't think I'd aim for this strategy, but if forced into Gardens, Armory is better than nothing.

Well, if you read the OP, you'll see that this thread was originally supposed to be about synergies that aren't as strong as they look at first due to one or more annoying factors. It got hijacked fairly early on, though. I mean, there are lots of cards that just plain don't work with each other, at all. Those pairings just aren't all that interesting to point out, though.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 04:03:19 pm »
0

I think this falls squarely in the "potentially harmful" category rather than the "Oh wow, that did not work at all" category that fits some of these others. I don't think I'd aim for this strategy, but if forced into Gardens, Armory is better than nothing.

Well, if you read the OP, you'll see that this thread was originally supposed to be about synergies that aren't as strong as they look at first due to one or more annoying factors.

Right, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment; I guess I was just "sub-classifying" it. And the argument I made for it being useful -- a mid-game pivot to Gardens -- is certainly not the Gardens-rush scenario you suggested.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 540
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +721
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2017, 02:56:21 pm »
+4

Scrying pool+Chariot Race

Oh boy that spy attack will really help me win all these races!

Wait I need cards left in my deck to win races...
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2907
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2408
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2017, 03:53:05 pm »
+1

Any cantrip is reasonable in a pool deck. Just play race first.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 540
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +721
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2017, 04:03:38 pm »
+2

Any cantrip is reasonable in a pool deck. Just play race first.
Of course, but then if your opponent has an expensive card on top you can't use the spy attack on pool to help. Not to mention the fact that you don't always start with a race in your opening hand. I mean you'll still be relatively happy to pick a few races with spare buys in a pool game but there's certainly some annoying anti-synergy there.
Logged

KingPeter

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
  • Shuffle iT Username: KingPeter
  • When in doubt, engine
  • Respect: +116
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2017, 04:29:33 pm »
+1

Any cantrip is reasonable in a pool deck. Just play race first.
Of course, but then if your opponent has an expensive card on top you can't use the spy attack on pool to help. Not to mention the fact that you don't always start with a race in your opening hand. I mean you'll still be relatively happy to pick a few races with spare buys in a pool game but there's certainly some annoying anti-synergy there.

pool + race only works if you have cards left in your deck after playing pool, which isn't always the case.  If you've trashed all your starting cards and have nothing but actions in your deck, the anti-synergy is certainly there.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2017, 04:37:56 pm »
0

Any cantrip has positive synergy with Scrying Pool by virtue of being a cantrip. Pool draws it because it's a cantrip, and then it can draw another card (which is nice when you have cards in your deck that aren't Actions).
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 540
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +721
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2017, 05:22:43 pm »
+1

Any cantrip has positive synergy with Scrying Pool by virtue of being a cantrip. Pool draws it because it's a cantrip, and then it can draw another card (which is nice when you have cards in your deck that aren't Actions).

Everything you've said here is correct but I think you're missing the point a bit. It is in fact possible for a pair of cards to have both synergies and anti-synergies with each other. In the case of pool and race obviously cantrip actions are great with pool for the reasons you have stated. The anti-synergy is about the often overlooked spy attack that comes with pool which you want to use before you play your races but will often end up in too much of your deck being drawn due to scrying pools general brokenness.

You can do this with a number of card combinations mentioned in this thread. For example there is certainly synergy between Overlord and Cultist, any 5 cost has synergy with Overlord by virtue of being a 5 cost. If you play the Overlord as Cultist first and proceed to chain all of your regular Cultists after then it's great, play a Cultist first or expect a stack of Overlords to chain... not so great.

Count has pretty strong synergy with Windfall- it's a thinner, a really good one at that! That makes it so much easier to  draw your deck and trigger Windfall right? But then there's the anti-synergy that Count adds cards back to your deck and so you can't play it to actually buy the Windfall (unless it's the last card in your card).
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2017, 05:42:55 pm »
0

Another problem is that for Chariot Race, Scrying Pool itself counts as a measly $2.
Logged

singletee

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 859
  • Shuffle iT Username: singletee
  • Gold, Silver, Copper, Let's Jam!
  • Respect: +1497
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2017, 05:46:37 pm »
+2

Another problem is that for Chariot Race, Scrying Pool itself counts as a measly $2.

Even worse, your opponent is likely to have Scrying Pools in their deck.

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2058
  • Respect: +2461
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 01:41:27 am »
+1

Today I set aside Ironworks with Inheritance. "This'll be great! I can pile down the Estates because Ironworks gaining Estate will give +1 Card +1 Action".

It turns out that after you pile the Estates, a deck with 10+ Ironworks is really bad at doing anything besides gaining Actions that cost < $4.

(Setting aside a better action and using 1-2 Ironworks to gain the Estates works a lot better.)

Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

mameluke

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 374
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2017, 06:26:30 pm »
+1

Lurker + Hunting Grounds
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2017, 06:49:10 pm »
+1

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

gloures

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
  • Shuffle iT Username: gloures
  • Respect: +246
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2017, 06:52:04 pm »
+2

Today I set aside Ironworks with Inheritance. "This'll be great! I can pile down the Estates because Ironworks gaining Estate will give +1 Card +1 Action".

It turns out that after you pile the Estates, a deck with 10+ Ironworks is really bad at doing anything besides gaining Actions that cost < $4.

(Setting aside a better action and using 1-2 Ironworks to gain the Estates works a lot better.)

I did this once and soon realized my mistake, my opponent didnt though and resigned just as i emptied the estate pile...  :P
Logged

mameluke

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 374
  • Respect: +437
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2017, 08:34:57 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

Sure, I guess. I think the point was that if you are intending to pick up HGs, you'll get something else before you get them even if you didn't want it. Maybe Catacombs is a better choice, but it's easier to choke on the green.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2907
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2408
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2017, 09:13:44 pm »
0

That's a legit rush strategy there.
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2017, 09:22:15 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

Sure, I guess. I think the point was that if you are intending to pick up HGs, you'll get something else before you get them even if you didn't want it. Maybe Catacombs is a better choice, but it's easier to choke on the green.

Yeah, but his point is that if those two cards are on the board, the Duchy rush is pretty much always going to be a better strategy than whatever fancy pants engine is possible.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2017, 03:10:13 am »
+1

Yeah, but his point is that if those two cards are on the board, the Duchy rush is pretty much always going to be a better strategy than whatever fancy pants engine is possible.

Well, this isn't exactly true either. You definitely have to contest the Lurkers, but after your opponent puts some Hunting Groundses into the trash, you can use your Lurkers to gain a bunch of them for free, which is also extremely strong and it may allow you to build an engine that's capable of getting Provinces fast enough that you can catch up on points and then just use the Lurkers to 3-pile the game for the win just like the rush would.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Sidsel

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 121
  • Respect: +171
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2017, 09:21:14 am »
0

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)
Logged

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1231
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1166
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2017, 09:23:04 am »
0

I piled in 11 turns using lurker hunting grounds uncontested. I had 8 duchies and 6 estates and the game ended with lurker, hunting grounds and duchies. It probably speeds up significantly in a mirror.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2017, 11:23:11 am »
+3

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)

Getting a second Fortune is pretty often pretty good even without Wolf's Den, unless you have +buy in your engine components. At that stage, +buy is super valuable, and Fortune does it non-terminally.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2553
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3176
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2017, 02:07:55 pm »
+1

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)

Getting a second Fortune is pretty often pretty good even without Wolf's Den, unless you have +buy in your engine components. At that stage, +buy is super valuable, and Fortune does it non-terminally.

Been saying this for a long time. A second Fortune is correct way more often than the card would imply at first glance due to the scarcity of nonterminal +Buy.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 556
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1217
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2017, 02:14:45 pm »
+2

Been saying this for a long time. A second Fortune is correct way more often than the card would imply at first glance due to the scarcity of nonterminal +Buy.

The opportunity cost of the second Fortune is a Province (at the very least).  You'd need to play the second Fortune at least two times to get any advantage over the Province line.  So, I'd only consider buying a second Fortune as non-terminal +buy if there was significant Alt-VP (and I was otherwise buy-limited).
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 02:16:06 pm by aku_chi »
Logged

Chappy7

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +374
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2017, 02:26:34 pm »
+2

Inheritance-Crossroads.

This is awesome! Inheritance loves estates, and crossroads loves estates! My first Estate will give me +3 Actions and all of them will self synergize and draw tons of cards! I can just buy all of them and be unstoppable!

Oh, what? I don't get +3 Actions ever? Now my deck is just full of tons of terminal draw? gg, Resign.

This happened to my opponent last week.  Luckily I had just read about this annoying anti-synergy on fds somewhere, so I didn't fall for it. 



Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2017, 02:52:08 pm »
+1

You'd need to play the second Fortune at least two times to get any advantage over the Province line.

Well, that's not really true because of PPR considerations. It's usually better to have a card in your deck that allows you to gain a Province (even if it's just once) than having the Province, just so you don't have to end your turn with one fewer Province left in the supply.

Furthermore, it's a pretty common scenario that you'll still have two more turns before the game ends.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5510
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3419
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2017, 03:25:02 pm »
+17

Distant Islands: Get Island, set aside Distant Lands. Now Distant Lands is even more distant!
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2017, 03:19:18 am »
0

crossroad-haunted woods attack helps opponent who could just draw lot of cards with topdecked crossroads.
Logged

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 556
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1217
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2017, 08:42:10 am »
0

Advance + Tactician

Advance can help you gain Tacticians, but the Advance fun ends once you play Tactician.
Logged

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2017, 03:22:34 am »
+3

Goons + Events
I have enough an Event or two... Buying Events doesn't trigger the VP gain :(
I'll jus get a Wedding, Dominate, some Delves... same difference.. you gain those cards, NOT buy them :(

Castles, Prizes, and/or Knights + Wolf Den
Variety is not the name of this game!

Shanty Town + Pathfinder
Alright!  I have a hand with a Shanty Town and no action cards!  +3 cards for me!
Play Shanty Town, draw an action card, reveal hand... nope!  Just 1 card for you!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:27:39 am by ackmondual »
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7070
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9310
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2017, 02:49:20 am »
+1

Inheritance + Tokens

Estates don't Inherit the name of the card they've copied.  So that +1 Card token on Peddler only works when you play a Peddler, not an Estate/Peddler.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 318
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2017, 09:13:29 am »
+5

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.

Here, have a penguin ;)

Logged

sorawotobu

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 83
  • Respect: +138
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2017, 03:36:07 pm »
+3

Lurker + Hunting Party
You really want to draw Lurkers in pairs but Hunting Party will skip additional Lurkers if you already have one. Playing Lurker before Hunting Party lets you get around that but if you whiff on the second Lurker the action card you trashed will be there for your opponent to grab.
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2017, 01:57:27 am »
0

Cultist / Counterfeit

Counterfeit - clear out the Coppers, yay! But ... in a typical Cultist/Ruins battle, Coppers can be decent. In other words, a deck of 4 Cultists, a Counterfeit, 3 Estates, 4 to 6 Ruins, like 1 or 2 Silvers, and nothing else just stinks. A few Coppers can actually make it better.

I feel like Counterfeit can be worth it in that by making your deck smaller, you can chain more Cultists early to win the Ruins split. But I'm just not convinced this is actually a thing - i.e. I might rather that Counterfeit just be, say, another Cultist.
Logged

cascadestyler

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Shuffle iT Username: cascadestyler
  • Vamos Cuidadanos!
  • Respect: +144
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2017, 10:32:26 am »
+1

Cultist / Counterfeit

Counterfeit - clear out the Coppers, yay! But ... in a typical Cultist/Ruins battle, Coppers can be decent. In other words, a deck of 4 Cultists, a Counterfeit, 3 Estates, 4 to 6 Ruins, like 1 or 2 Silvers, and nothing else just stinks. A few Coppers can actually make it better.

I feel like Counterfeit can be worth it in that by making your deck smaller, you can chain more Cultists early to win the Ruins split. But I'm just not convinced this is actually a thing - i.e. I might rather that Counterfeit just be, say, another Cultist.

A non-terminal trasher (like Counterfiet) is about the best thing you can put in a cultist deck. If you actually had that deck you described with just 1 silver then it would suck, but why on earth would you ever get rid of all your copper and only replace it with one silver? Chances are you have two silvers if you were opening towards a cultish rush anyway, and you'd pick up a 2nd one at some point in your cultish rush by default anyway. The deck you've described with 2 silvers sounds awesome. That's going to draw itself every turn without fail, hand out 4 ruins a go, produce $7 on it's first cycle and buy a gold, the depending on whether there's any virtual money or handy kingdom treasure like relic you'll transition through that or through a bit more gold into a lovely reliable province-buying deck that destroys your opponent.
Logged
"You can't help people being right for the wrong reasons...This fear of finding oneself in bad company is not an expression of political purity; it is an expression of a lack of self-confidence."

- Arthur Koestler

LaLight

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +861
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2017, 03:11:41 am »
0

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.
Logged
Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 16

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

faust

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2149
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3024
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2017, 03:18:25 am »
+6

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.
On the plus side, that can be another Forge!
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2017, 03:25:08 am »
+2

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.

On the other hand, you can Forge Coppers (or nothing) into something that's actually useful.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2017, 01:34:01 pm »
0

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.

On the other hand, you can Forge Coppers (or nothing) into something that's actually useful.

Yeah, I actually think this is a great synergy if you plan for it.
Logged

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2017, 12:42:53 am »
0

Windfall + card drawers that force you to discard
You never actually get an empty discard :(
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

allanfieldhouse

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
  • Respect: +260
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2017, 02:07:00 pm »
+2

Tactician + Night Cards

I have all these lovely Night cards that I'm saving for then end of my turn...and then Tactician discards them all!
Logged

Chappy7

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +374
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2017, 04:26:47 pm »
+3

This thread is about to get popular.  Night cards are cray-cray.

University can't gain Raider or any night cards :(

Summon Doesn't like them either
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 04:28:24 pm by Chappy7 »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2017, 04:46:05 pm »
+5

University can't gain Raider

Altar can't gain Raider, either!
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

kieranmillar

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 68
  • Shuffle iT Username: kieranmillar
  • Respect: +163
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2017, 04:52:05 pm »
+6

Haunted Woods vs Night Cards

Opponent played a Haunted Woods? Better not buy anything if you want to play your Night cards.
Logged

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2017, 03:28:41 am »
+2

Treasures + Tactician
All of those juicy Treasures... Discarded!
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 318
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #84 on: October 27, 2017, 01:45:45 am »
+6

Mint + Mine
Use Mint to upgrade your bad treasures into good treasures and make it hard to get a good Mine turn.
Use Mine to trash a lot of bad treasures in one go and leave not a lot left to upgrade with Mint.
Logged

Gherald

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 432
  • Awe: +35
  • Respect: +829
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2017, 04:39:43 am »
+8

Mint + Mine
I thought the anti-synergy was when you try to buy one and accidentally buy the other.
Logged
thank you for participating in this enrichment center activity

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 318
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #86 on: October 27, 2017, 01:25:01 pm »
+1

I thought the anti-synergy was when you try to buy one and accidentally buy the other.

Oh hey, I must have typo'd a lot in my post. I accidentally wrote Mine when I meant Mint and vice versa. Isn't it funny how often you confuse the two?  :P

("accidentally")
Logged

Dylan32

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dylan32
  • Respect: +119
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2017, 01:48:01 pm »
+6

I thought the anti-synergy was when you try to buy one and accidentally buy the other.

Oh hey, I must have typo'd a lot in my post. I accidentally wrote Mine when I meant Mint and vice versa. Isn't it funny how often you confuse the two?  :P

("accidentally")

I wonder how many people read your original joke and actually missed the fact you really did flip them. *slowly raises hand*
Logged
Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2017, 08:12:28 pm »
0

I thought the anti-synergy was when you try to buy one and accidentally buy the other.

Oh hey, I must have typo'd a lot in my post. I accidentally wrote Mine when I meant Mint and vice versa. Isn't it funny how often you confuse the two?  :P

("accidentally")

I like Minte!
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

Eran of Arcadia

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 249
  • Respect: +448
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2017, 11:57:09 am »
+4

I thought the anti-synergy was when you try to buy one and accidentally buy the other.

Oh hey, I must have typo'd a lot in my post. I accidentally wrote Mine when I meant Mint and vice versa. Isn't it funny how often you confuse the two?  :P

("accidentally")

I like Minte!

What's your favorite card? Mint is mine.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 01:27:20 pm by Eran of Arcadia »
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7070
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9310
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2017, 02:21:16 pm »
0

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.

WHy do you have both Counting House and Royal Blacksmith in your deck?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #91 on: October 28, 2017, 11:34:40 pm »
+3

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.

WHy do you have both Counting House and Royal Blacksmith in your deck?

It's a super-strong synergy if you play them the other way around: Draw a bunch of stuff with Royal Blacksmith and then get back all the coppers with Counting House. The main mistake is probably using Herald for this sort of thing.
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1125
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +871
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #92 on: October 28, 2017, 11:38:44 pm »
+1

Nothing to do with the card's effects, but I just had a game with both Jester and Fool and kept getting mixed up between them in my head because they can mean the same thing...
(I played a fool thinking it would do something because my opponent played a Jester on his previous turn, which would give him Lost in the Woods -wouldn't it?)

EDIT: Thought about posting this in the "Is Fool Ambiguous?" thread, but I didn't want that thread coming up in my new replies.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 11:58:24 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #93 on: October 29, 2017, 11:34:13 pm »
0

Pilgrimage can't gain Night cards :(
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3678
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2017, 03:41:27 am »
+2

Pilgrimage can't gain Night cards :(

It can if they're Durations! Or Werewolf.
Logged

gloures

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
  • Shuffle iT Username: gloures
  • Respect: +246
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2017, 02:39:53 pm »
+1

Cobbler/Cost Reduction, gainers usually work great with Cost Reduction, Cobbler unfortunately does not... (And luckily I discovered this againg Lord rat...)
Logged

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +20618
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #96 on: November 16, 2017, 02:47:06 pm »
+5

Cobbler/Cost Reduction, gainers usually work great with Cost Reduction, Cobbler unfortunately does not... (And luckily I discovered this againg Lord rat...)
Well you'll always have Bridge Troll, Ferry, or e.g. playing Bridge twice with Ghost before resolving Cobbler.
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2017, 07:01:17 pm »
+1

Or Summon, Prince, ...
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1767
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #98 on: November 18, 2017, 04:19:26 am »
+11

I just had what was probably my most traumatic Dominion experience ever. Yes, it was even worse than King's Court - Goons - Masquerade.

Locusts ate my beautiful goat. :'( :'( :'(
It was bloody, it was messy, and it was all my fault.

Quote
A buys and gains a Cursed Village
A takes Locusts
A receives Locusts
A reveals a Goat
A trashes a Goat
A gains a Copper

Learn from my mistake and take care of your pets, people. You can't realize how much they meant to you before they are gone.
Logged

Sidsel

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 121
  • Respect: +171
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #99 on: November 19, 2017, 05:28:38 am »
0

Spoils cannot be used to pay your charioteer.  :'( Looks like a gold, pays like a gold - must be a copper.
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1590
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1641
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2017, 06:54:03 am »
+7

Spoils cannot be used to pay your charioteer.  :'( Looks like a gold, pays like a gold - must be a copper.

Well of course, if you could it would spoil the whole race.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 318
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2017, 07:30:06 pm »
0

Maybe half-way on topic, half-way OT, but on the two-card kingdom {Enchantress, Rebuild}, is Enchantress a counter to Rebuild?

Against a scripted Rebuild bot, yeah, I think so. But against someone who knows what's comingI mean, if it's me playing Rebuild, I guess I pile up on Enchantresses. Feeding one to play my Rebuild seems great. Having Enchantress without Rebuild means I play it, making me that much more likely to pair Enchantress with Rebuild in my next hand (or just hit $5 for an extra Rebuild). With a bit of luck, my Enchantress can even shut their Enchantress down.

So the anti-synergy between your Enchantress and my Rebuild is maybe not as harmful as one would first think, which itself is harmful to you? Maybe?

I should probably go test that; this is pure speculation.
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #102 on: November 20, 2017, 08:58:14 pm »
0

Cobbler/Cost Reduction, gainers usually work great with Cost Reduction, Cobbler unfortunately does not... (And luckily I discovered this againg Lord rat...)
Feel victim to this literally 5 minutes after reading this :(  Tried to set up a Native Village / Highway / Cobbler megaturn.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1767
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #103 on: November 22, 2017, 02:33:59 pm »
+1

As it turns out, Vampires don't like Villas.
Logged

William Howard Taft

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
  • Respect: +88
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #104 on: November 22, 2017, 03:28:49 pm »
+2

Cobbler/Cost Reduction, gainers usually work great with Cost Reduction, Cobbler unfortunately does not... (And luckily I discovered this againg Lord rat...)
Feel victim to this literally 5 minutes after reading this :(  Tried to set up a Native Village / Highway / Cobbler megaturn.

Get some Ghosts next time.
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +593
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2017, 04:28:32 am »
+2

Watchtower - Villa

Me: Hmm, let's grab that Watchtower. Put down all the coins, buy Villa, play Villa, gain enough Action to re-stock my hand, sounds like a plan.

System: "It looks like you are going to gain a Villa. Do you want to topdeck or trash?"
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

CPiGuy

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Shuffle iT Username: CPiGuy
  • Respect: +81
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #106 on: November 24, 2017, 12:53:29 pm »
0

Watchtower - Villa

Me: Hmm, let's grab that Watchtower. Put down all the coins, buy Villa, play Villa, gain enough Action to re-stock my hand, sounds like a plan.

System: "It looks like you are going to gain a Villa. Do you want to topdeck or trash?"

If it's not letting you simply gain the Villa, that's bad... you should be able to simply not reveal the Watchtower.
Logged

JW

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 702
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1258
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #107 on: November 24, 2017, 01:19:37 pm »
+2

In that case you can continue without using Watchtower by clicking "Villa" in the log next to the two Watchtower options. It's a pretty confusing interface. I've posted about this issue on ShuffleIT's forums (re: Death Cart), and will make sure it gets added to the "Interface Issues" compilation: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1014.msg2630#msg2630
Logged

teamlyle

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Shuffle iT Username: La-Ya
  • Ah... German Hello?
  • Respect: +286
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #108 on: November 28, 2017, 09:14:40 am »
+3

I had Shelters + Hunting Party in a recent game. Since all the Shelters are different, HP still finds other Shelters if you have one in your hand.
Logged
"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Im sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I dont want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

SmokeyRivers

  • Swindler
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17
  • Shuffle iT Username: SmokeyRivers
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2017, 09:43:29 pm »
0

Faithful Hound and Quest are not a very strong synergy, if not an active anti-synergy.
Logged

JThorne

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Respect: +597
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #110 on: November 29, 2017, 05:01:36 pm »
0

Quote
Faithful Hound and Quest are not a very strong synergy, if not an active anti-synergy.

Why, just because Gold is often bad? Seems to me once you have six cards in hand, including a Hound, you could discard your hand for a Gold as many turns in a row as you wanted. Not that one Gold per turn is all that exciting. Getting six cards and a Hound in hand could be accomplished simply with another Hound.

I mean, as combos go, it seems right up there with Golem/Counting House. Cute, but probably not worth doing. I'm not sure that's an anti-synergy. It's only annoying and potentially harmful in the sense that you might get suckered into actually doing it.

I remember something similar happening when I saw that Druid came up with the Gift that draws two cards and discards two. The kingdom had Faithful Hound in it, so I started imagining how I might leverage the discard. Then I realized I was trying to figure out how to turn the Druid into a slightly worse version of Faithful Hound. Duh. I didn't need the +buy that bad.
Logged

teamlyle

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Shuffle iT Username: La-Ya
  • Ah... German Hello?
  • Respect: +286
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2017, 01:16:03 pm »
0

Rouge/Lookout: Eventually, you want to trash your Lookout, but if Lookout is the only card in the trash costing from 3 to 6, you have to gain it back instead of doing the attack.
Logged
"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Im sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I dont want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

Dylan32

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dylan32
  • Respect: +119
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #112 on: November 30, 2017, 01:30:09 pm »
+3

Rouge/Lookout: Eventually, you want to trash your Lookout, but if Lookout is the only card in the trash costing from 3 to 6, you have to gain it back instead of doing the attack.

Not to mention, a lookout wearing rouge would probably be easy for the enemy to see instead of being well-hidden the way a good lookout would be.
Logged
Forum Mafia Record - Wins: 6 - NM9, M97, RMM41, M99, M102, M104; Losses 7 - RMM37, M89, M94, M95, M96, M100, M109; MVPs: 1 - NM9

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #113 on: December 01, 2017, 08:46:39 pm »
0

You can't Ferry Den of Sin.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4633
  • Respect: +4997
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #114 on: December 01, 2017, 09:48:07 pm »
+1

Rouge/Lookout: Eventually, you want to trash your Lookout, but if Lookout is the only card in the trash costing from 3 to 6, you have to gain it back instead of doing the attack.

Not to mention, a lookout wearing rouge would probably be easy for the enemy to see instead of being well-hidden the way a good lookout would be.

I think it's not all that hidden, towering from that ship in the middle of the ocean.

Eran of Arcadia

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 249
  • Respect: +448
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #115 on: December 02, 2017, 09:16:25 am »
+2

Rouge/Lookout: Eventually, you want to trash your Lookout, but if Lookout is the only card in the trash costing from 3 to 6, you have to gain it back instead of doing the attack.

Not to mention, a lookout wearing rouge would probably be easy for the enemy to see instead of being well-hidden the way a good lookout would be.

I think it's not all that hidden, towering from that ship in the middle of the ocean.

It's surprisingly easy to sneak up on an iceberg without being detected.
Logged

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 318
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2017, 04:26:55 am »
+2

It's surprisingly easy to sneak up on an iceberg without being detected.
But doing so is a gigantic titanic mistake.
Logged

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #117 on: December 05, 2017, 12:25:13 am »
0

Card discounters + Debt cost cards
Quarry, Bridge, Highway, etc. doesn't directly help in eliminating Debt, so you're still paying "full price" for those that only cost Debt anyways.
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

greybirdofprey

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 168
  • Respect: +134
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #118 on: December 09, 2017, 11:28:06 am »
0

Jester + cultist/marauder. Hit a ruin, different ruin on top of the ruins pile.
Baron + shelters. I'll just open baronOH WAIT.
Mission + black market. More turns means more black market plays means more oh wait.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #119 on: December 10, 2017, 12:50:24 am »
0

Haunted Woods vs Night Cards

Opponent played a Haunted Woods? Better not buy anything if you want to play your Night cards.

Specifically, Guardian is crap vs. Haunted Woods
Logged

CPiGuy

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Shuffle iT Username: CPiGuy
  • Respect: +81
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2017, 02:33:11 pm »
+4

Haunted Woods vs Night Cards

Opponent played a Haunted Woods? Better not buy anything if you want to play your Night cards.

Specifically, Guardian is crap vs. Haunted Woods

Actually, by my reading, the Guardian should go into your hand anyway, since Haunted Woods is on-buy. So, what happens is you buy the Guardian, you topdeck your hand (sans guardian) as a side effect of having bought it, and then you gain the Guardian, to your hand.

Edit: the online implementation confirms this behavior is correct.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 02:36:23 pm by CPiGuy »
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #121 on: December 10, 2017, 06:13:57 pm »
+1

Haunted Woods vs Night Cards

Opponent played a Haunted Woods? Better not buy anything if you want to play your Night cards.

Specifically, Guardian is crap vs. Haunted Woods

Actually, by my reading, the Guardian should go into your hand anyway, since Haunted Woods is on-buy. So, what happens is you buy the Guardian, you topdeck your hand (sans guardian) as a side effect of having bought it, and then you gain the Guardian, to your hand.

Edit: the online implementation confirms this behavior is correct.

Ah, nice. I was just thinking of previously-gained Guardians. It's nice to know this is an option.
Logged

JThorne

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • Respect: +597
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #122 on: December 11, 2017, 09:43:56 am »
+1

Bridge Troll + Patrician

I reveal an Emporium! Hooray! It costs $5, so it goes in my haaaaa.....oh, no it doesn't.
Logged

weesh

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 247
  • MOAR MAGPIES
  • Respect: +341
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #123 on: December 11, 2017, 03:28:37 pm »
+1


farming village / night cards
ironworks / night cards
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1767
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #124 on: December 15, 2017, 08:39:28 am »
+6

As Bella found out the hard way, if you put Vampires and a Wolf Den together, what you'll get is a headache.
Logged

LaLight

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +861
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2017, 07:47:17 am »
+1

Artificer + Cemetery. Not all gainers are good for Cemetery.
Logged
Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 16

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #126 on: December 19, 2017, 03:53:26 pm »
+1

Bandit + Haunted Mirror

Bandit hitting your opponent's Haunted Mirror has a high probability of giving them a Ghost.
Logged

Scoobie

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2017, 03:35:46 pm »
0

Is this because the Bandit puts the Haunted Mirror in the trash, thus allowing the opponent to possibly get the Ghost? If so, that assumes Heirlooms are also Coppers since Bandit trashes Coppers. I would not have thought to have Bandit trash Heirlooms.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2017, 03:38:02 pm »
0

Is this because the Bandit puts the Haunted Mirror in the trash, thus allowing the opponent to possibly get the Ghost? If so, that assumes Heirlooms are also Coppers since Bandit trashes Coppers. I would not have thought to have Bandit trash Heirlooms.

Bandit can't trash Coppers and Heirlooms aren't Coppers.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Scoobie

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2017, 03:42:01 pm »
0

Oops. I havent played with Bandit in awhile and my randomizer app has the Bandit text wrong.Sorry to be a nuisance!
Logged

William Howard Taft

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
  • Respect: +88
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2017, 12:13:21 pm »
+1

Night cards ruin Vassal.

Except Werewolf. Werewolf's cool.
Logged

humcalc216

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Shuffle iT Username: humcalc216
  • Respect: +91
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2017, 11:11:55 pm »
+2

Stonemason + Keep

Stonemason can't gain (non-Crown) Treasures via overpay, and be careful when trashing Treasures to pile out!
Logged

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2017, 04:39:48 pm »
0

Ghost + Fool
If there's going to be a tug-of-war between you and 1 or more other players, than multiple Fools don't seem to be so bad.  However having Ghost hit this, especially when you're ALREADY Lost In The Woods is just lousy.
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #133 on: January 10, 2018, 02:32:32 pm »
+3

Tormentor - Prince
Once you Prince something, you can never get an Imp from Tormentor.
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #134 on: January 10, 2018, 02:44:08 pm »
0

Tormentor - Prince
Once you Prince something, you can never get an Imp from Tormentor.

Similar problem with Duration cards, especially those that stay out for multiple turns (or forever).
Logged

Cuzz

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 515
  • Shuffle iT Username: Cuzz
  • Respect: +841
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2018, 03:16:39 pm »
+1

Scrying Pool-Vassal

If you had an action on your deck for vassal to play, scrying pool would have drawn it already, so your vassals are all almost guaranteed to be terminal.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7131
  • Respect: +7962
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2018, 03:36:00 pm »
+3

Tormentor - Prince
Once you Prince something, you can never get an Imp from Tormentor.

Edge case... using a cost reducer you also Prince a Tormentor.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2018, 06:29:16 pm »
0

Ooh yes; I momentarily forgot Prince doesn't re-enter play each turn along with what it plays.

I was thinking you could cost-reduce then Summon a Tormentor, but it's neater using Prince when that's already in the kingdom.
Logged

infangthief

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Shuffle iT Username: infangthief
  • Respect: +235
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #138 on: January 11, 2018, 05:29:19 am »
+6

I ran out of junk for my ambassadors to give to my opponent.
Ah, I'll get an Ill-Gotten Gains, so my opponent gets a curse, then I can give them that useless IGG too.
[reads the texts on IGG and Ambassador more closely...]
Well, it still kind of works, just a few more steps to it than I was expecting.
Logged
infangthief is in the lower 50% of commonly used words in the Collins dictionary

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #139 on: January 11, 2018, 12:05:27 pm »
0

Having gained IGG, it might be simpler to use it as a source of Copper to throw at your opponent, rather than hurling IGG at them followed by the Curse you receive as a result?
Logged

MatthewCA

  • Spy
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 82
  • Respect: +75
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #140 on: January 11, 2018, 01:06:18 pm »
0

Having gained IGG, it might be simpler to use it as a source of Copper to throw at your opponent, rather than hurling IGG at them followed by the Curse you receive as a result?

It just seems like too much opportunity cost to be worth it. Yes, you're keeping the Ambassador useful by gaining coppers, but you're also making your deck worse, and having to spend time Ambassadoring the coppers away. Buy the IGG, curse your opponent, then Remodel it, or trash it.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 01:08:22 pm by MatthewCA »
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #141 on: January 11, 2018, 02:20:39 pm »
0

I'm not saying IGG for Coppers which you feed to Ambassador is a superb line of play, just that it's better than feeding IGG to Ambassador and later feeding the Curse to IGG.
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #142 on: January 11, 2018, 04:14:45 pm »
0

Tormentor - Prince
Once you Prince something, you can never get an Imp from Tormentor.

Edge case... using a cost reducer you also Prince a Tormentor.

Ha, that's a potentially harmful anti-synergy in and of itself -- you'd be gaining a lot of Imps, of which you don't want too many. You'd have to Prince something else or get a Hireling, Champion, etc.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1767
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #143 on: January 11, 2018, 06:15:50 pm »
0

Imp, on the other hand, is a very good Prince target.

Oh sorry wrong thread.
Logged

AJD

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2906
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +3678
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #144 on: January 18, 2018, 01:48:09 pm »
+4

Champion + Tormentor

"After I play Champion, I'll be able to play Tormentor first every turn and get all the Imps I want!"

...oops.
Logged

Skumpy

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 124
  • Shuffle iT Username: skumpy
  • Respect: +199
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #145 on: January 18, 2018, 03:07:30 pm »
+3

Champion + Tormentor

"After I play Champion, I'll be able to play Tormentor first every turn and get all the Imps I want!"

...oops.

Bonfire to the rescue!

Seems thematic enough la Joan of Arc.
Logged
He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

teamlyle

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Shuffle iT Username: La-Ya
  • Ah... German Hello?
  • Respect: +286
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #146 on: January 24, 2018, 10:22:21 am »
+4

Battlefield + Ambassador: If you Ambassador away Estates, your opponent takes VP from battlefield.
Logged
"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Im sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I dont want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1125
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +871
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #147 on: January 24, 2018, 02:14:59 pm »
0

If Mountain's gift wasn't bad enough, Bandit Camp Fort turns it into a curse.

EDIT: Yes, I meant Bandit Fort.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 05:40:27 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #148 on: January 24, 2018, 03:47:23 pm »
+1

Sage + Wish

So you buy a Sage to help you trigger Magic Lamp and what do you know, it worked! Aren't you smart (or maybe just lucky)?

Decidedly less smart is playing Sage to skip over and discard all the Wishes you worked so hard to get.
Logged

Eran of Arcadia

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 249
  • Respect: +448
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #149 on: January 24, 2018, 04:52:52 pm »
+1

If Mountain's gift wasn't bad enough, Bandit Camp turns it into a curse.

Do you mean Bandit Fort?
Logged

Chappy7

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +374
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #150 on: January 24, 2018, 05:46:46 pm »
+6

If Mountain's gift wasn't bad enough, Bandit Camp turns it into a curse.

Do you mean Bandit Fort?

I was thinking so hard about how this would possibly make sense.  But I knew if I asked, someone would make me feel sheepish by showing me how obviously bandit camp turns into a curse.  Now my brain can relax.
Logged

ehunt

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1420
  • Shuffle iT Username: ehunt
  • Respect: +1610
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #151 on: January 24, 2018, 11:45:16 pm »
+2

Diplomat is not a good reaction to Soldier
Logged

Eran of Arcadia

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 249
  • Respect: +448
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #152 on: January 25, 2018, 09:10:56 am »
+2

If Mountain's gift wasn't bad enough, Bandit Camp turns it into a curse.

Do you mean Bandit Fort?

I was thinking so hard about how this would possibly make sense.  But I knew if I asked, someone would make me feel sheepish by showing me how obviously bandit camp turns into a curse.  Now my brain can relax.

I took a huge risk that that wasn't the case.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #153 on: January 25, 2018, 09:17:38 am »
0

If Mountain's gift wasn't bad enough, Bandit Camp turns it into a curse.

Do you mean Bandit Fort?

I was thinking so hard about how this would possibly make sense.  But I knew if I asked, someone would make me feel sheepish by showing me how obviously bandit camp turns into a curse.  Now my brain can relax.

Wouldn't it have been a good idea to ask then?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Chappy7

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +374
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2018, 01:39:15 pm »
0

If Mountain's gift wasn't bad enough, Bandit Camp turns it into a curse.

Do you mean Bandit Fort?

I was thinking so hard about how this would possibly make sense.  But I knew if I asked, someone would make me feel sheepish by showing me how obviously bandit camp turns into a curse.  Now my brain can relax.

Wouldn't it have been a good idea to ask then?
Only if I was okay with the risk of feeling like a sheep.
Logged

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #155 on: January 25, 2018, 06:46:02 pm »
0

Diplomat is not a good reaction to Soldier
Why not?

It may not alter what size hand you end up with, but Diplomat still sifts which cards remain in your hand.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #156 on: January 25, 2018, 07:00:07 pm »
0

Diplomat is not a good reaction to Soldier
Why not?

It may not alter what size hand you end up with, but Diplomat still sifts which cards remain in your hand.

Yeah and you probably want to have a lower handsize if you have Diplomats in your deck.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 540
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +721
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2018, 07:14:23 pm »
0

Diplomat is not a good reaction to Soldier
Why not?

It may not alter what size hand you end up with, but Diplomat still sifts which cards remain in your hand.

If you react Diplomat to Soldier then you discard down to 3 cards in hand, which may or may not be bad in a Diplomat game.
Logged

teamlyle

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Shuffle iT Username: La-Ya
  • Ah... German Hello?
  • Respect: +286
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #158 on: January 26, 2018, 09:49:35 am »
0

Swindler + Mountebank:

1. If you trash your opponent's Coppers into Curses, he/she can later discard them to your Mountebanks.
2. When the Curses run out, you will occasionally trash Curses off the top of your opponent's deck, giving them Coppers.
Logged
"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Im sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I dont want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

cascadestyler

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Shuffle iT Username: cascadestyler
  • Vamos Cuidadanos!
  • Respect: +144
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #159 on: January 27, 2018, 12:10:16 pm »
+2

Cursed Village / Torturer

Cursed Village / Torturer engines really don't do that much because CV is a superlative counter to discard attacks (probably the best).

Counter: This isn't really an antisynergy because any draw-to-X counters any discard attack - we knew this already.

Counter to the counter: This is a special case because CV is something you could use to build a torturer engine. Library might be a good defence against torturer chains but it won't let you play any yourself. Nobody builds a library / torturer deck. But because CV is a ruddy good village, it's a good candidate for building a torturer chain, and also a superb way to defend against one. For me, this counts as an AaPHCA-S.

Also I hexed myself war which trashed one of the two torturers I had and that's not an AaPHCA-S, just a risk of using CV, but it did anger me somewhat.
Logged
"You can't help people being right for the wrong reasons...This fear of finding oneself in bad company is not an expression of political purity; it is an expression of a lack of self-confidence."

- Arthur Koestler

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +593
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #160 on: January 29, 2018, 03:59:56 am »
0

Cursed Village / Torturer

Cursed Village / Torturer engines really don't do that much because CV is a superlative counter to discard attacks (probably the best).

Counter: This isn't really an antisynergy because any draw-to-X counters any discard attack - we knew this already.

Counter to the counter: This is a special case because CV is something you could use to build a torturer engine. Library might be a good defence against torturer chains but it won't let you play any yourself. Nobody builds a library / torturer deck. But because CV is a ruddy good village, it's a good candidate for building a torturer chain, and also a superb way to defend against one. For me, this counts as an AaPHCA-S.

Also I hexed myself war which trashed one of the two torturers I had and that's not an AaPHCA-S, just a risk of using CV, but it did anger me somewhat.

Cursed Village does not really play optimally with Torturer as in most cases all CV after the first might as well have been Necropoles. Also, both cards are competing for the $5 purchase slot. Of course theres a better chance to start the Torturer chain after the first CV play, but all in all I'd rather have good old Fishing Village to complement my Torturers.

Nice complements to CV are cards that supply what CV does not: Vaults, Storerooms or Horse Traders. They enable your hand to breathe in and out and generate $$$ in the process.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1767
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #161 on: January 29, 2018, 06:13:44 am »
+1

Cursed Village / Torturer

Cursed Village / Torturer engines really don't do that much because CV is a superlative counter to discard attacks (probably the best).

Counter: This isn't really an antisynergy because any draw-to-X counters any discard attack - we knew this already.

Counter to the counter: This is a special case because CV is something you could use to build a torturer engine. Library might be a good defence against torturer chains but it won't let you play any yourself. Nobody builds a library / torturer deck. But because CV is a ruddy good village, it's a good candidate for building a torturer chain, and also a superb way to defend against one. For me, this counts as an AaPHCA-S.

Also I hexed myself war which trashed one of the two torturers I had and that's not an AaPHCA-S, just a risk of using CV, but it did anger me somewhat.

Cursed Village does not really play optimally with Torturer as in most cases all CV after the first might as well have been Necropoles. Also, both cards are competing for the $5 purchase slot. Of course theres a better chance to start the Torturer chain after the first CV play, but all in all I'd rather have good old Fishing Village to complement my Torturers.

Nice complements to CV are cards that supply what CV does not: Vaults, Storerooms or Horse Traders. They enable your hand to breathe in and out and generate $$$ in the process.
Well there also Secret Chamber!

Notice that vault's on-gain is actually super useful for your opponent in cursed village games. That could annoy you, and even harm you.
Logged

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +593
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #162 on: January 29, 2018, 06:35:12 am »
+1

Notice that vault's on-gain is actually super useful for your opponent in cursed village games. That could annoy you, and even harm you.

You mean on-play? There is no on-gain effect of Vault.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

jonaskoelker

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 318
  • Grand Market = cantrip Woodcutter
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #163 on: January 29, 2018, 11:15:59 am »
0

Notice that vault's on-gain is actually super useful for your opponent in Cursed Village games. That could annoy you, and even harm you.

You mean on-play? There is no on-gain effect of Vault.

Maybe Accatitippi means the on-gain effect of Embassy? They're easy to mix up: they're both terminals for $5 which net you one card, they're only really good in BM and they both play nice with Tunnelthat is, they're pretty interchangeable.
Logged

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1767
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2018, 07:03:32 pm »
0

I meant on-play, yeah. I should really start proofreading my posts before I hit the send button...
Logged

humcalc216

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Shuffle iT Username: humcalc216
  • Respect: +91
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #165 on: February 06, 2018, 10:13:30 pm »
0

Sure, Haunted Woods counters Nights.  But, Haunted Woods REALLY counters Monastery.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #166 on: February 07, 2018, 04:56:20 am »
+3

Sure, Haunted Woods counters Nights.  But, Haunted Woods REALLY counters Monastery.

I don't think that's true, actually. Monastery should do most of its job before you start to get hit by a Haunted Woods attack every turn.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

humcalc216

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Shuffle iT Username: humcalc216
  • Respect: +91
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #167 on: February 07, 2018, 11:20:39 am »
0

It did some work, but the only extra gains on this board, aside from +buys, were from Noble Brigand, Artisan, and Develop.  So it was slow to get going, unless you also went with another trasher (Develop).  I managed to kill my Estates, but not many coppers.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #168 on: February 07, 2018, 01:27:22 pm »
+1

You can (usually should) definitely use another trasher with Monastery, since it can't terminally collide, even without Haunted Woods present.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #169 on: February 21, 2018, 03:04:41 pm »
+12

Conclave + Duration

This should be obvious, but trying to turn Conclave + Wharf into an engine was a Very Bad Idea.
Logged

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +126
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #170 on: February 21, 2018, 11:58:39 pm »
0

Thief and harem
Thief steals your harem. You gave them victory points, and you lost victory points.
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5510
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3419
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #171 on: February 22, 2018, 10:16:55 am »
+5

Thief and harem
Thief steals your harem. You gave them victory points, and you lost victory points.

That's not.. What card anti-synergies means, is cards in your own deck that just don't work well together. Like Tactician and any Night Cards. You can't play both Tactician and Night cards*, so there is an anti synergy there.

(You can also cheat and play a Werewolf before the Tactician, and say that is a Night card, which is correct but you know what I mean)

*you actually can, but it involves cost reduction to set aside a Tactician with Prince and another draw card set aside with Prince as well. Summoning also works in this way, as does Ghost, and any beginning of turn play Action cards. It's also not good.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 10:19:19 am by Seprix »
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

LaLight

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 687
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
  • Respect: +861
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #172 on: February 22, 2018, 10:36:17 am »
+1

Thief and harem
Thief steals your harem. You gave them victory points, and you lost victory points.

That's not.. What card anti-synergies means, is cards in your own deck that just don't work well together. Like Tactician and any Night Cards. You can't play both Tactician and Night cards*, so there is an anti synergy there.

(You can also cheat and play a Werewolf before the Tactician, and say that is a Night card, which is correct but you know what I mean)

*you actually can, but it involves cost reduction to set aside a Tactician with Prince and another draw card set aside with Prince as well. Summoning also works in this way, as does Ghost, and any beginning of turn play Action cards. It's also not good.

But you can't argue that playing Thief and stealing someone else's Harem is actually quite a bad move. The more Harems you have the rarer you're playing your precious Thief and the less Treasures you can steal. You can of course buy more Thieves playing Harems you just stole: it seems to be a synergy, especially given that Harem provides $2 and Thief costs $4, so you need to have only 2 Harems to buy another Thief to play your Thieves more often. Writing that I realised that I am doing something wrong with my life Thief and Harem actually is an awesome synergy, shame on Wiki for not having it.
Logged
Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

Wins: 11, 6
Losses: 9, 4, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 3
Mod/Co-mod: 16

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +126
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #173 on: February 23, 2018, 12:00:20 am »
0

Philosophers stone/windfall
I want to go through my whole deck but I also want lots of cards in my deck
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 12:37:55 am by Chase Adolphson »
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +126
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #174 on: February 23, 2018, 12:03:32 am »
+1

Philosophers stone/donate
I trash all of those coppers and estates, but now I'm going through my whole deck every turn. WHY DID I BUY A PHILOSOPHERS STONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

Chase Adolphson

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chase Adolphson
  • I love dominion!
  • Respect: +126
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #175 on: February 23, 2018, 12:05:22 am »
+3

Donate/chapel
I used donate to trash my coppers and my estates. Wait, why did I buy a chapel, then.
Logged
I'm glad to be talking with people that like dominion as well.

William Howard Taft

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
  • Respect: +88
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #176 on: February 25, 2018, 04:35:18 pm »
0

Wandering Minstrel does not play well with Night cards that aren't Werewolf.
Logged

Jack Rudd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1100
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +1026
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #177 on: February 26, 2018, 07:07:18 pm »
0

Thief and harem
Thief steals your harem. You gave them victory points, and you lost victory points.

That's not.. What card anti-synergies means, is cards in your own deck that just don't work well together. Like Tactician and any Night Cards. You can't play both Tactician and Night cards*, so there is an anti synergy there.

(You can also cheat and play a Werewolf before the Tactician, and say that is a Night card, which is correct but you know what I mean)

*you actually can, but it involves cost reduction to set aside a Tactician with Prince and another draw card set aside with Prince as well. Summoning also works in this way, as does Ghost, and any beginning of turn play Action cards. It's also not good.
A more sensible way to play Tactician and Night cards involves Golem. Which can be good in the right circumstances.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

jomini

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 979
  • Respect: +693
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #178 on: February 27, 2018, 12:55:34 am »
+1

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Nah, Count does fine.

Say you can make your $5 without treasures. The simplest option is something like Candlestick/Count. You save up a coin, trash away everything with Count (top deck the Candlestick), and then next turn play the Candlestick and Count (discard nothing). This is an easy shot for a very nice Windfall.

More generally, you can just use Count as Trash 3/2 card and build up some Coin. 3 Plays of count will trash out 9 starting cards (net), this allows you to buy two silvers and keep a copper; don't play the Count for a turn when you buy the Windfall. After that you basically get a Province a turn and you can nurse the treasures along with top decking/discard as needed. You even can grab the odd duchy towards the end. Opening a $5 Count means I can Windfall ~ T8-10. Any sort of support (like Haven) will likely take this down around T7-9.

Never underestimate the pure raw power of good trashing in Dominion.
Logged

4est

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 106
  • Shuffle iT Username: 4est
  • Respect: +387
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #179 on: February 27, 2018, 09:17:12 am »
+4

Raze isn't so helpful once you have a few Bridge Trolls in play. 
Logged

jomini

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 979
  • Respect: +693
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #180 on: February 28, 2018, 08:08:24 am »
+6

Wandering Minstrel does not play well with Night cards that aren't Werewolf.

I would submit that Wandering Minstrel actually plays excellently with Night cards. For most Wm boards you want to be building an engine, the biggest problem with engines is having the engine whiff. Wm bottom decks something like half your stop cards (coins, green, nights) so you can much more reliably draw everything. Say nights and golds are your only payload - everything else is village/draw/+buy; ideally you want to have all your village/draw in the top half of your deck and all your payload in the bottom. Wm does this nicely. He makes your engine vastly more reliable at drawing through and he does so at a much lower opportunity cost than many other options.

Wm gets better with Nights when you time his addition to your deck well. Early on you may care more about playing power Nights than about deck drawing (e.g. Monastery), so do not buy Wm until after they are less useful. Conversely a lot of fun Night tricks are better after you are drawing deck (e.g. Changeling is mostly worthless until you can draw deck), don't bother with them until you can draw through. If you have double villages out, then certainly take the other one early and add in Wm in later.

It really is no different than Plats here. Sure may have a mid-game turn or two where you miss the plat from Wm, but pretty quickly your engine should hit and you can spend fewer buys on maintaining reliability. Reliable deck drawing is just that idiotically powerful.
Logged

jomini

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 979
  • Respect: +693
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #181 on: February 28, 2018, 08:26:20 am »
+1

Donate/chapel
I used donate to trash my coppers and my estates. Wait, why did I buy a chapel, then.

I've gotten decent mileage out of Chap/Donate on boards with Junking/On trash effects. Sure Donate can do most everything Chap can ... it just costs $8 per use. My personal favorite was Donate/Chap/Market square. Optimal play is almost always open Chap/Msqr -> Donate (possibly gaining a gold), keep 3(2) coppers. Then trash down the coppers and gain golds. Less powerfully, Squire can also make a Chap a good investment with attacks you want to spam (e.g. Werewolf).

Against junkers, like Cultist or Mountebank, Chap is likely a good addition with a spare $2. It costs a draw and an action, but it also saves you several $8 buys.
Logged

teamlyle

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
  • Shuffle iT Username: La-Ya
  • Ah... German Hello?
  • Respect: +286
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #182 on: February 28, 2018, 11:51:02 am »
+7

Haggler + debt-costing cards: you're forced to take Copper when you buy a debt-costing card with Haggler in play.
Logged
"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
"Im sorry Cedric, we just have to do what we have to do to get me to be a op." -Paul
"Well, I prefer loyal people. I dont want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
Lyle's mom: Are you guys going to play regular Dominion, or are you going to play cheat?
Lyle: Of course we're playing Cheat Dominion!

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #183 on: February 28, 2018, 01:55:57 pm »
0

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

And you're spoiled for choice if you buy a Fortune...
Logged

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #184 on: February 28, 2018, 02:04:57 pm »
+10

Haggler + Me when I forget that Haggler's gain is mandatory
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #185 on: February 28, 2018, 02:18:08 pm »
+2

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

crj

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 924
  • Respect: +1030
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #186 on: February 28, 2018, 02:35:06 pm »
+1

...and how often will the average Dominion player Haggle a debt-costing card at all?
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1125
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +871
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #187 on: February 28, 2018, 03:02:01 pm »
+4

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Only assuming you play full random. Why do people always assume that?

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #188 on: February 28, 2018, 03:32:08 pm »
0

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Only assuming you play full random. Why do people always assume that?

Because that's what you get when you automatch on ShiT.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1125
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +871
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #189 on: February 28, 2018, 05:11:44 pm »
0

Not necessarily. Often, you'll be happy to take a free Engineer with your Overlord.

Not very often. That'll probably happen about 0 or 1 times in the average Dominion player's lifetime.
Only assuming you play full random. Why do people always assume that?

Because that's what you get when you automatch on ShiT.

I made a feature request to change that.
http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=2847.msg12597#msg12597

cascadestyler

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
  • Shuffle iT Username: cascadestyler
  • Vamos Cuidadanos!
  • Respect: +144
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #190 on: June 25, 2018, 07:41:56 am »
+3

Haggler + Me when I forget that Haggler's gain is mandatory

Haggler + Me when I forget that Haggler's gain is mandatory + Irritating butt-ass opponent who doesn't grant the simplest of no-info undos

I know that's a 3-part combo so might cause thread derailment arguments over what's a useful combo but I would plead that the second component is super-common and the third component is also much more common than any given card so the chance of this occuring is at least as high as any given 2-card combo.
Logged
"You can't help people being right for the wrong reasons...This fear of finding oneself in bad company is not an expression of political purity; it is an expression of a lack of self-confidence."

- Arthur Koestler

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +593
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #191 on: June 25, 2018, 08:25:18 am »
0

Haggler + debt-costing cards: you're forced to take Copper when you buy a debt-costing card with Haggler in play.

Not while there are Curses or Ruins in play.
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

faust

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2149
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3024
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #192 on: June 25, 2018, 08:29:11 am »
+2

Haggler + debt-costing cards: you're forced to take Copper when you buy a debt-costing card with Haggler in play.

Not while there are Curses or Ruins in play.
How would you even put Curses in play, and why does it matter?
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1233
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +593
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #193 on: June 26, 2018, 03:20:51 am »
0

Sorry, I meant "in Supply".
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

Cave-o-sapien

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Respect: +1526
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #194 on: July 14, 2018, 02:42:51 pm »
+2

Plaza + Black Market

You can't spend tokens while buying from Black Market. I played against someone who repeatedly discarded Coppers to Plaza then played Black Market and couldn't afford power cards.
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 444
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +700
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #195 on: August 24, 2018, 10:12:11 pm »
+3

Summon + Skulk
I didn't know this, but apparently Summon doesn't work on Skulk because the Gold covers it up.
Logged

Honkeyfresh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
  • Respect: +45
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #196 on: August 25, 2018, 05:28:46 pm »
0

I recently played a game with tournament and mountain pass and noticed mountain pass makes it even more critical to get the province first, since when you buy it, your opponent has to bet afterwards and if they bet high, you simply pass and have several rounds where they pay off their debt, unable to buy a province and you can get the prices easily. If they bet low, well, you already have a province to take prices and the debt wont hurt you that much.

However, in Rebuild games with Mountain Pass, it's very critical to not get the first Province, because if your opponent bets 40 (as they should), you can't bet more than that and then they're going to have a very major advantage.

why 40?  That seems crazy.  The other person just needs to buy duchies and churn em while u are paying back the 40 to do anything.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #197 on: August 25, 2018, 06:23:43 pm »
0

why 40?  That seems crazy.  The other person just needs to buy duchies and churn em while u are paying back the 40 to do anything.

I'm not 100% sure this is still the modern consensus, but at that time, it was supported by both simulators and real test games that the point advantage from Mountain Pass far outweighs the ability to buy stuff for the rest of the game, because Rebuild doesn't really even need to buy anything after the initial couple of Rebuilds.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Honkeyfresh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
  • Respect: +45
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #198 on: August 25, 2018, 08:57:59 pm »
0

why 40?  That seems crazy.  The other person just needs to buy duchies and churn em while u are paying back the 40 to do anything.

I'm not 100% sure this is still the modern consensus, but at that time, it was supported by both simulators and real test games that the point advantage from Mountain Pass far outweighs the ability to buy stuff for the rest of the game, because Rebuild doesn't really even need to buy anything after the initial couple of Rebuilds.

I guess I could see that assuming u don't get to MP to fast, and don't have enough rebuilds to reliably churn through the rest.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #199 on: August 26, 2018, 05:51:58 am »
0

why 40?  That seems crazy.  The other person just needs to buy duchies and churn em while u are paying back the 40 to do anything.

I'm not 100% sure this is still the modern consensus, but at that time, it was supported by both simulators and real test games that the point advantage from Mountain Pass far outweighs the ability to buy stuff for the rest of the game, because Rebuild doesn't really even need to buy anything after the initial couple of Rebuilds.

I guess I could see that assuming u don't get to MP to fast, and don't have enough rebuilds to reliably churn through the rest.

It's not about having enough Rebuilds, you simply don't have enough time when the opponent has an 8 VP advantage and keeps removing Provinces from the pile.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3683
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2232
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #200 on: August 26, 2018, 08:54:31 am »
0

why 40?  That seems crazy.  The other person just needs to buy duchies and churn em while u are paying back the 40 to do anything.

I'm not 100% sure this is still the modern consensus, but at that time, it was supported by both simulators and real test games that the point advantage from Mountain Pass far outweighs the ability to buy stuff for the rest of the game, because Rebuild doesn't really even need to buy anything after the initial couple of Rebuilds.

I guess I could see that assuming u don't get to MP to fast, and don't have enough rebuilds to reliably churn through the rest.

It's not about having enough Rebuilds, you simply don't have enough time when the opponent has an 8 VP advantage and keeps removing Provinces from the pile.

So then, how do you deal with that situation? It seems like Mountain Pass can bring the game to a stand still if no player wants to gain the first Province.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10762
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11330
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #201 on: August 26, 2018, 09:20:56 am »
0

So then, how do you deal with that situation? It seems like Mountain Pass can bring the game to a stand still if no player wants to gain the first Province.

I don't remember if anyone ever came up with a solution other than trying to beat that with a non-Rebuild strategy.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3683
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2232
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #202 on: August 26, 2018, 05:20:38 pm »
0

So then, how do you deal with that situation? It seems like Mountain Pass can bring the game to a stand still if no player wants to gain the first Province.

I don't remember if anyone ever came up with a solution other than trying to beat that with a non-Rebuild strategy.

That's still rough, because the Rebuild player likely won't have a problem bidding 40. But unmirrored, there should still be Duchies available for the non-rebuild player.
Logged

William Howard Taft

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 79
  • Respect: +88
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #203 on: September 15, 2018, 01:36:27 pm »
0

It's nice having victory cards for Oasis to discard but not when you also need them for Shepherd.
Logged

jomini

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 979
  • Respect: +693
    • View Profile
Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #204 on: September 21, 2018, 09:25:11 pm »
+1

So then, how do you deal with that situation? It seems like Mountain Pass can bring the game to a stand still if no player wants to gain the first Province.

I don't remember if anyone ever came up with a solution other than trying to beat that with a non-Rebuild strategy.

That's still rough, because the Rebuild player likely won't have a problem bidding 40. But unmirrored, there should still be Duchies available for the non-rebuild player.

That depends on what Rebuild player does. They are going to nab 3 Provinces for a point total of 26. They will burn 3 Duchies in game so total points left are only 45 outside of estates. If Rebuild gets an Estate before the trigger is pulled on Mpass, this pushes their total up to 32 and drops the opponent down to 34 (at best). It is exceedingly hard to beat Rebuild with only the stock VP when they can take 8 and run. It certainly can be done (e.g. Knights)

The solution for the mirror is to win the Duchy split, then buy Rebuilds and Estates. Name Duchy, burn Estates, and then slowly eat the Rebuild pile. If your opponent gets a province - bid 40. If they never touch it, then you just keep eating the piles. Be careful about the Estate count; a 4:3 province lead means you cannot let them get 3 Estates ahead of you. If you lock them out of Duchy or Estate points, then you just wait for them to name province, net your 8 VP and then name Estate.

Losing the Duchy split is pretty fatal here, but it is in many Rebuild games regardless; you can get insane mileage out of Rebuilding Duchy -> Duchy.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 9 [All]
 

Page created in 0.351 seconds with 21 queries.