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Author Topic: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies  (Read 3182 times)

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Commodore Chuckles

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Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« on: September 15, 2017, 09:46:26 am »
+11

We already have Neat and Potentially Useful Card Interactions. This thread is for warnings about interactions that seem good at first but turn out not to be so good.

I'll start with:

Poor House + Coin of the Realm
Coin can be a great way to play multiple Houses in one turn... But it's a treasure :(

Bridge (Troll) + City Quarter
City Quarter can be a great way to play multiple Bridge (Troll)s in one turn... But they don't actually lower its cost. You'll need some other way to get $, or you'll find yourself running out of it fast. Especially a problem with Bridge Troll, since it doesn't provide any $.
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 10:02:16 am »
+2

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

Banquet is not a good Duchy/Duke enabler; while Copper helps you hit $5, Copper+green cards doesn't hit $5.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 10:22:34 am »
+8

Banquet is especially annoying for Duchy/Duke since it can't gain victory cards. 
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 11:24:29 am »
+10

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 01:07:18 pm »
+8

Me (early in the game): Let me buy this Overlord for maximum flexibility
Me (later in the game): So many wonderful choices here, but right this second I could really use a Duplicate.
Me (seconds later): Oh. Right.
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mameluke

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 01:26:30 pm »
+3

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.

You can always buy Bonfire first to get rid of those pesky Bridge Trolls in play!
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 04:31:32 pm »
+2

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.

You can always buy Bonfire first to get rid of those pesky Bridge Trolls in play!

The particular problem with Ritual is that it happens during your buy phase, which is also when Peddler's cost reduction happens.
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Skumpy

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 05:09:09 pm »
+3

Black Market + Capital

It's actually a decent combo if you know what you're doing. But if you're like me and you don't understand debt, it'ill be frustrating when you think you have enough money for that shiny $7 card early, and then you discover that you can't pay off debt in the Action phase. Try again later.
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sorawotobu

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 06:49:26 pm »
+6

In a similar vein, Storyteller + Capital

I've once had an opponent do it and I guess it could be reasonable some of the time but he didn't get any other money and just kept going deeper and deeper into debt. He resigned at 30 or so.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 10:31:07 pm »
0

Here's two obvious ones:

Prince + Durations
Band of Misfits/Overlord + Reserve cards
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trivialknot

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 12:00:25 am »
+3

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 12:46:16 am »
+4

Playing Black Market/Storyteller and a Silver when you have a ton of Merchants left to play.

Upgrading coppers with Poor House on the board. We've all done it, don't lie.

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.

Please don't call them splitters.
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luser

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 05:27:29 am »
+2

classical one:

Hm, board is just cultist bm.
20 turn later
Why are opponents vineyards worth so much?
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 07:23:59 am »
0

Please don't call them splitters.

Please don't promote the usage of vaguely defined terms when clearly defined alternatives exist.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 05:57:51 pm »
+3

Another antisynergy is trying to make bridge troll/higway with apprentice draw work.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 06:05:05 pm »
+10

Splitter was replaced by Village in 2-nd Edition.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 06:16:35 pm »
+3

I tried to play Double Tactician into Vineyards once (No Black Market or Storyteller).
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2017, 06:18:27 pm »
+6

One I came by today: Torturer + Mountebank. Play Torturer, draw Mountebank, and your opponent takes the curse to block your Mountebank  :(
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 02:29:35 am »
0

One I came by today: Torturer + Mountebank. Play Torturer, draw Mountebank, and your opponent takes the curse to block your Mountebank  :(

Torturer-masq is worse. You run out of curses without cursing because opponents just gains them to send them via his or your masq to you.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 08:21:35 am »
+13

Cities are beginning to run low, so I want as many as I can... but until they actually run out they're not a lot of use. Hey wait, why don't I get some Overlords, they can do other useful things right now then I'll use them as Cities later.

(Later) Ho ho my opponent has obligingly emptied the Cities, now here I come with my super power Overlords...

Oh.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 08:41:39 am »
0

Cities are beginning to run low, so I want as many as I can... but until they actually run out they're not a lot of use. Hey wait, why don't I get some Overlords, they can do other useful things right now then I'll use them as Cities later.

(Later) Ho ho my opponent has obligingly emptied the Cities, now here I come with my super power Overlords...

Oh.

I had an opponent do that in a game recently.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 09:08:20 am »
+1

Fool's Gold/Hunting Party
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 01:48:48 pm »
+4

rebuild + kingdom cards
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Dingan

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 01:49:41 pm »
+1

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
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trivialknot

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 02:02:30 pm »
+4

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 02:08:01 pm »
+5

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
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mameluke

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 03:03:10 pm »
+1

Bridge Troll + Sage doesn't work when you want Sage to find $3 cards.

I'm terrible at noticing these sorts of cost-reduction anti-synergies. My recent one:

Peddler + Ritual
Me (early in the game): Oh sweet, I can gain a bunch of Peddlers cheaply and then trash them for 8VP + Curse
Me (later in the game): Oh. Right.

You can always buy Bonfire first to get rid of those pesky Bridge Trolls in play!

The particular problem with Ritual is that it happens during your buy phase, which is also when Peddler's cost reduction happens.

Peddler's cost reduction is contingent on Action cards in play; Bonfire can get rid of those for you.
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trivialknot

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 04:49:32 pm »
0

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 04:52:59 pm »
+8

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.

If you've trashed all the Coppers in the supply you can.
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trivialknot

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 05:24:02 pm »
+3

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.

If you've trashed all the Coppers in the supply you can.
Oh I see.  I thought Dingan was referring to some ridiculous edge case, like having a Watchtower in hand.  I now see I was incorrect.
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2017, 05:27:05 pm »
+2

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.
Yes it can - you just gain & trash a lot of Coppers
The three "drawback" options on Count all prevent Windfall from triggering because they put cards on your deck or in your discard.
Not if you've trashed all the Coppers
I do not understand what you're saying.  If you trash all coppers and have a deck of just Count plus Silver, you cannot trigger Windfall.

If you've trashed all the Coppers in the supply you can.
Oh I see.  I thought Dingan was referring to some ridiculous edge case, like having a Watchtower in hand.  I now see I was incorrect.

Well, he was referring to a ridiculous edge case, just a bit more ridiculous than you expected.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2017, 05:28:59 pm »
+5

Just trying to tell an annoying and potentially harmful joke :P
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2017, 07:14:09 pm »
+10

Sarcasm and the internet have an annoying and potentially harmful communication anti-synergy.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 12:37:06 am »
+2

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2017, 07:08:20 pm »
+6

I recently played a game with tournament and mountain pass and noticed mountain pass makes it even more critical to get the province first, since when you buy it, your opponent has to bet afterwards and if they bet high, you simply pass and have several rounds where they pay off their debt, unable to buy a province and you can get the prices easily. If they bet low, well, you already have a province to take prices and the debt wont hurt you that much.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2017, 01:09:54 am »
+1

I recently played a game with tournament and mountain pass and noticed mountain pass makes it even more critical to get the province first, since when you buy it, your opponent has to bet afterwards and if they bet high, you simply pass and have several rounds where they pay off their debt, unable to buy a province and you can get the prices easily. If they bet low, well, you already have a province to take prices and the debt wont hurt you that much.

However, in Rebuild games with Mountain Pass, it's very critical to not get the first Province, because if your opponent bets 40 (as they should), you can't bet more than that and then they're going to have a very major advantage.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2017, 01:03:46 pm »
+4

Pretty obvious one, but hasn't been mentioned yet:

Armory + Gardens

Cheap gainers are normally a great way to rush gardens, but Armory gains those dead cards to the top of your deck.

And a less obvious one:

Overlord + Cultist

So, you can essentially gain a Cultist before your first shuffle no matter what your opening is. Great! Then comes the moment when you realize that Overlord can only be used at the START of a Cultist chain, not in the middle. D'oh!

Incidentally, the game I discovered this anti-synergy was a game I lost to a guy who bought nothing but Bakers. He didn't buy a single Cultist and got all 10 ruins, and he still won. No, I have no idea how it happened! But I suspect this blunder had something to do with it.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2017, 03:34:55 am »
+2

Playing Black Market/Storyteller and a Silver when you have a ton of Merchants left to play.

Upgrading coppers with Poor House on the board. We've all done it, don't lie.

It turns out that Count can't help you reach $5 to get Windfall without a splitter.

Please don't call them splitters.

[insert Life of Brian picture]
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 01:45:40 am »
+1

Armory + Gardens

Cheap gainers are normally a great way to rush gardens, but Armory gains those dead cards to the top of your deck.

I think this falls squarely in the "potentially harmful" category rather than the "Oh wow, that did not work at all" category that fits some of these others. I don't think I'd aim for this strategy, but if forced into Gardens, Armory is better than nothing.

Quote
Overlord + Cultist

I would fall for this, for sure.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 12:41:31 pm »
+2

One I came by today: Torturer + Mountebank. Play Torturer, draw Mountebank, and your opponent takes the curse to block your Mountebank  :(

Torturer-masq is worse. You run out of curses without cursing because opponents just gains them to send them via his or your masq to you.

Are you sure you wouldn't be cursing in this situation?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 03:55:23 pm »
0

I think this falls squarely in the "potentially harmful" category rather than the "Oh wow, that did not work at all" category that fits some of these others. I don't think I'd aim for this strategy, but if forced into Gardens, Armory is better than nothing.

Well, if you read the OP, you'll see that this thread was originally supposed to be about synergies that aren't as strong as they look at first due to one or more annoying factors. It got hijacked fairly early on, though. I mean, there are lots of cards that just plain don't work with each other, at all. Those pairings just aren't all that interesting to point out, though.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 04:03:19 pm »
0

I think this falls squarely in the "potentially harmful" category rather than the "Oh wow, that did not work at all" category that fits some of these others. I don't think I'd aim for this strategy, but if forced into Gardens, Armory is better than nothing.

Well, if you read the OP, you'll see that this thread was originally supposed to be about synergies that aren't as strong as they look at first due to one or more annoying factors.

Right, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment; I guess I was just "sub-classifying" it. And the argument I made for it being useful -- a mid-game pivot to Gardens -- is certainly not the Gardens-rush scenario you suggested.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2017, 02:56:21 pm »
+3

Scrying pool+Chariot Race

Oh boy that spy attack will really help me win all these races!

Wait I need cards left in my deck to win races...
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2017, 03:53:05 pm »
+1

Any cantrip is reasonable in a pool deck. Just play race first.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2017, 04:03:38 pm »
+2

Any cantrip is reasonable in a pool deck. Just play race first.
Of course, but then if your opponent has an expensive card on top you can't use the spy attack on pool to help. Not to mention the fact that you don't always start with a race in your opening hand. I mean you'll still be relatively happy to pick a few races with spare buys in a pool game but there's certainly some annoying anti-synergy there.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2017, 04:29:33 pm »
+1

Any cantrip is reasonable in a pool deck. Just play race first.
Of course, but then if your opponent has an expensive card on top you can't use the spy attack on pool to help. Not to mention the fact that you don't always start with a race in your opening hand. I mean you'll still be relatively happy to pick a few races with spare buys in a pool game but there's certainly some annoying anti-synergy there.

pool + race only works if you have cards left in your deck after playing pool, which isn't always the case.  If you've trashed all your starting cards and have nothing but actions in your deck, the anti-synergy is certainly there.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2017, 04:37:56 pm »
0

Any cantrip has positive synergy with Scrying Pool by virtue of being a cantrip. Pool draws it because it's a cantrip, and then it can draw another card (which is nice when you have cards in your deck that aren't Actions).

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2017, 05:22:43 pm »
0

Any cantrip has positive synergy with Scrying Pool by virtue of being a cantrip. Pool draws it because it's a cantrip, and then it can draw another card (which is nice when you have cards in your deck that aren't Actions).

Everything you've said here is correct but I think you're missing the point a bit. It is in fact possible for a pair of cards to have both synergies and anti-synergies with each other. In the case of pool and race obviously cantrip actions are great with pool for the reasons you have stated. The anti-synergy is about the often overlooked spy attack that comes with pool which you want to use before you play your races but will often end up in too much of your deck being drawn due to scrying pools general brokenness.

You can do this with a number of card combinations mentioned in this thread. For example there is certainly synergy between Overlord and Cultist, any 5 cost has synergy with Overlord by virtue of being a 5 cost. If you play the Overlord as Cultist first and proceed to chain all of your regular Cultists after then it's great, play a Cultist first or expect a stack of Overlords to chain... not so great.

Count has pretty strong synergy with Windfall- it's a thinner, a really good one at that! That makes it so much easier to  draw your deck and trigger Windfall right? But then there's the anti-synergy that Count adds cards back to your deck and so you can't play it to actually buy the Windfall (unless it's the last card in your card).
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2017, 05:42:55 pm »
0

Another problem is that for Chariot Race, Scrying Pool itself counts as a measly $2.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2017, 05:46:37 pm »
+2

Another problem is that for Chariot Race, Scrying Pool itself counts as a measly $2.

Even worse, your opponent is likely to have Scrying Pools in their deck.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 01:41:27 am »
+1

Today I set aside Ironworks with Inheritance. "This'll be great! I can pile down the Estates because Ironworks gaining Estate will give +1 Card +1 Action".

It turns out that after you pile the Estates, a deck with 10+ Ironworks is really bad at doing anything besides gaining Actions that cost < $4.

(Setting aside a better action and using 1-2 Ironworks to gain the Estates works a lot better.)

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2017, 06:26:30 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2017, 06:49:10 pm »
+1

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2017, 06:52:04 pm »
+2

Today I set aside Ironworks with Inheritance. "This'll be great! I can pile down the Estates because Ironworks gaining Estate will give +1 Card +1 Action".

It turns out that after you pile the Estates, a deck with 10+ Ironworks is really bad at doing anything besides gaining Actions that cost < $4.

(Setting aside a better action and using 1-2 Ironworks to gain the Estates works a lot better.)

I did this once and soon realized my mistake, my opponent didn´t though and resigned just as i emptied the estate pile...  :P
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2017, 08:34:57 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

Sure, I guess. I think the point was that if you are intending to pick up HGs, you'll get something else before you get them even if you didn't want it. Maybe Catacombs is a better choice, but it's easier to choke on the green.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2017, 09:13:44 pm »
0

That's a legit rush strategy there.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2017, 09:22:15 pm »
0

Lurker + Hunting Grounds

That's actually a very strong combo. You can win the game in 9-10 turns by piling out on Lurkers, Hunting Grounds and Duchies.

Sure, I guess. I think the point was that if you are intending to pick up HGs, you'll get something else before you get them even if you didn't want it. Maybe Catacombs is a better choice, but it's easier to choke on the green.

Yeah, but his point is that if those two cards are on the board, the Duchy rush is pretty much always going to be a better strategy than whatever fancy pants engine is possible.
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2017, 03:10:13 am »
0

Yeah, but his point is that if those two cards are on the board, the Duchy rush is pretty much always going to be a better strategy than whatever fancy pants engine is possible.

Well, this isn't exactly true either. You definitely have to contest the Lurkers, but after your opponent puts some Hunting Groundses into the trash, you can use your Lurkers to gain a bunch of them for free, which is also extremely strong and it may allow you to build an engine that's capable of getting Provinces fast enough that you can catch up on points and then just use the Lurkers to 3-pile the game for the win just like the rush would.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2017, 09:21:14 am »
0

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2017, 09:23:04 am »
0

I piled in 11 turns using lurker hunting grounds uncontested. I had 8 duchies and 6 estates and the game ended with lurker, hunting grounds and duchies. It probably speeds up significantly in a mirror.
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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2017, 11:23:11 am »
+3

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)

Getting a second Fortune is pretty often pretty good even without Wolf's Den, unless you have +buy in your engine components. At that stage, +buy is super valuable, and Fortune does it non-terminally.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2017, 02:07:55 pm »
+1

Wolf's Den - Fortune.

Will you take the 3vp penalty to buy one? Will you scrape up the cash/debt for a second?

(We took a penalty each.)

Getting a second Fortune is pretty often pretty good even without Wolf's Den, unless you have +buy in your engine components. At that stage, +buy is super valuable, and Fortune does it non-terminally.

Been saying this for a long time. A second Fortune is correct way more often than the card would imply at first glance due to the scarcity of nonterminal +Buy.
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aku_chi

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2017, 02:14:45 pm »
+2

Been saying this for a long time. A second Fortune is correct way more often than the card would imply at first glance due to the scarcity of nonterminal +Buy.

The opportunity cost of the second Fortune is a Province (at the very least).  You'd need to play the second Fortune at least two times to get any advantage over the Province line.  So, I'd only consider buying a second Fortune as non-terminal +buy if there was significant Alt-VP (and I was otherwise buy-limited).
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 02:16:06 pm by aku_chi »
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2017, 02:26:34 pm »
+2

Inheritance-Crossroads.

This is awesome! Inheritance loves estates, and crossroads loves estates! My first Estate will give me +3 Actions and all of them will self synergize and draw tons of cards! I can just buy all of them and be unstoppable!

Oh, what? I don't get +3 Actions ever? Now my deck is just full of tons of terminal draw? gg, Resign.

This happened to my opponent last week.  Luckily I had just read about this annoying anti-synergy on fds somewhere, so I didn't fall for it. 



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Awaclus

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2017, 02:52:08 pm »
+1

You'd need to play the second Fortune at least two times to get any advantage over the Province line.

Well, that's not really true because of PPR considerations. It's usually better to have a card in your deck that allows you to gain a Province (even if it's just once) than having the Province, just so you don't have to end your turn with one fewer Province left in the supply.

Furthermore, it's a pretty common scenario that you'll still have two more turns before the game ends.

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2017, 03:25:02 pm »
+14

Distant Islands: Get Island, set aside Distant Lands. Now Distant Lands is even more distant!
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2017, 03:19:18 am »
0

crossroad-haunted woods attack helps opponent who could just draw lot of cards with topdecked crossroads.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2017, 08:42:10 am »
0

Advance + Tactician

Advance can help you gain Tacticians, but the Advance fun ends once you play Tactician.
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ackmondual

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2017, 03:22:34 am »
+3

Goons + Events
I have enough an Event or two... Buying Events doesn't trigger the VP gain :(
I'll jus get a Wedding, Dominate, some Delves... same difference.. you gain those cards, NOT buy them :(

Castles, Prizes, and/or Knights + Wolf Den
Variety is not the name of this game!

Shanty Town + Pathfinder
Alright!  I have a hand with a Shanty Town and no action cards!  +3 cards for me!
Play Shanty Town, draw an action card, reveal hand... nope!  Just 1 card for you!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:27:39 am by ackmondual »
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2017, 02:49:20 am »
+1

Inheritance + Tokens

Estates don't Inherit the name of the card they've copied.  So that +1 Card token on Peddler only works when you play a Peddler, not an Estate/Peddler.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2017, 09:13:29 am »
+4

Throne Herald, hit Counting House, draw all the Coppers, and then hit Royal Blacksmith with the second play.

Here, have a penguin ;)

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2017, 03:36:07 pm »
+3

Lurker + Hunting Party
You really want to draw Lurkers in pairs but Hunting Party will skip additional Lurkers if you already have one. Playing Lurker before Hunting Party lets you get around that but if you whiff on the second Lurker the action card you trashed will be there for your opponent to grab.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2017, 01:57:27 am »
0

Cultist / Counterfeit

Counterfeit - clear out the Coppers, yay! But ... in a typical Cultist/Ruins battle, Coppers can be decent. In other words, a deck of 4 Cultists, a Counterfeit, 3 Estates, 4 to 6 Ruins, like 1 or 2 Silvers, and nothing else just stinks. A few Coppers can actually make it better.

I feel like Counterfeit can be worth it in that by making your deck smaller, you can chain more Cultists early to win the Ruins split. But I'm just not convinced this is actually a thing - i.e. I might rather that Counterfeit just be, say, another Cultist.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2017, 10:32:26 am »
+1

Cultist / Counterfeit

Counterfeit - clear out the Coppers, yay! But ... in a typical Cultist/Ruins battle, Coppers can be decent. In other words, a deck of 4 Cultists, a Counterfeit, 3 Estates, 4 to 6 Ruins, like 1 or 2 Silvers, and nothing else just stinks. A few Coppers can actually make it better.

I feel like Counterfeit can be worth it in that by making your deck smaller, you can chain more Cultists early to win the Ruins split. But I'm just not convinced this is actually a thing - i.e. I might rather that Counterfeit just be, say, another Cultist.

A non-terminal trasher (like Counterfiet) is about the best thing you can put in a cultist deck. If you actually had that deck you described with just 1 silver then it would suck, but why on earth would you ever get rid of all your copper and only replace it with one silver? Chances are you have two silvers if you were opening towards a cultish rush anyway, and you'd pick up a 2nd one at some point in your cultish rush by default anyway. The deck you've described with 2 silvers sounds awesome. That's going to draw itself every turn without fail, hand out 4 ruins a go, produce $7 on it's first cycle and buy a gold, the depending on whether there's any virtual money or handy kingdom treasure like relic you'll transition through that or through a bit more gold into a lovely reliable province-buying deck that destroys your opponent.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2017, 03:11:41 am »
0

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2017, 03:18:25 am »
+2

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.
On the plus side, that can be another Forge!
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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2017, 03:25:08 am »
+1

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.

On the other hand, you can Forge Coppers (or nothing) into something that's actually useful.

Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Annoying and potentially harmful card anti-synergies
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2017, 01:34:01 pm »
0

Forge + Cost Reduction is a trap i got in lately.

Play highway play Forge, trash 2 Rats... gain a card costing exactly 6.

On the other hand, you can Forge Coppers (or nothing) into something that's actually useful.

Yeah, I actually think this is a great synergy if you plan for it.
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