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Author Topic: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases  (Read 6326 times)

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Titandrake

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2019, 06:29:20 pm »
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September 2019 errata updates:

  • Procession + Reserve cards still works like before - the card goes to the Tavern mat before it can get trashed and you still gain the card.
  • The entire section on Procession + Duration cards is no longer relevant. (However, the rules for how long Throne Rooms stay out is unchanged).
  • BoM + Overlord as Reserve cards no longer strands Band of Misfits or Overlord on your Tavern Mat, because they don't become a copy of the card. The action you choose will stay in its pile and you will not be able to call it later.
  • The BoM + Overlord and Conpirator interaction still works as stated.
  • The Adventures token interaction also works as stated - you get the effect of both any tokens on the BoM pile, and any tokens on the pile picked.
  • The entire Inheritance section is out of date. If you inherit Crossroads, your Estates will now give +3 Actions, because you're playing the "Crossroads" card. Your Estates will give Adventures token effects, because it's playing cards from that pile. Your Estates are now Action-Victory cards, even if you Inherit a card that has more types than just Action.
  • All the "shapeshifter" cards no longer give you "while this card is in play" effects.
  • Summon on Death Cart and other actions that gain cards on-gain will now work, when before they didn't.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2019, 09:29:56 pm »
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I just encountered something that might be worth noting: Crypt and Alchemist. You can set your Potion aside with Crypt, but then you can't top deck your Alchemists because the Potion is no longer in play (I think?)
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2019, 10:54:51 pm »
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I just encountered something that might be worth noting: Crypt and Alchemist. You can set your Potion aside with Crypt, but then you can't top deck your Alchemists because the Potion is no longer in play (I think?)

You would be correct. Same reason you have to do Herbalist and Alchemist in the proper order.
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hypercube

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2019, 05:43:43 am »
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Note that you can now put the +Buy token on the Estate pile using Seaway.
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MrFrog

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2019, 06:03:53 am »
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Note that you can now put the +Buy token on the Estate pile using Seaway.

I think you can't - the Estate pile is still not an Action card pile.
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hypercube

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2019, 06:11:27 am »
+1

Note that you can now put the +Buy token on the Estate pile using Seaway.

I think you can't - the Estate pile is still not an Action card pile.

Seaway doesn't check the pile type, you just have to gain an Action card from the pile.
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MrFrog

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2019, 07:04:43 am »
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Note that you can now put the +Buy token on the Estate pile using Seaway.

I think you can't - the Estate pile is still not an Action card pile.

Seaway doesn't check the pile type, you just have to gain an Action card from the pile.

Oh, right, I misremembered Seaway's wording.
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Dominionaer

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2019, 04:50:34 am »
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September 2019 errata updates:
  • The entire Inheritance section is out of date. If you inherit Crossroads, your Estates will now give +3 Actions, because you're playing the "Crossroads" card. Your Estates will give Adventures token effects, because it's playing cards from that pile. Your Estates are now Action-Victory cards, even if you Inherit a card that has more types than just Action.

I have the impression, the bolded part is technically incorrect: the Estate still does not give the +3 Actions, it is the inherited Crossroad itself by getting played via Estate.
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Dominionaer

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2019, 05:08:59 am »
+1

September 2019 errata updates:
  • The entire Inheritance section is out of date. If you inherit Crossroads, your Estates will now give +3 Actions, because you're playing the "Crossroads" card. Your Estates will give Adventures token effects, because it's playing cards from that pile. Your Estates are now Action-Victory cards, even if you Inherit a card that has more types than just Action.

I have the impression, the bolded part is technically incorrect (or perhaps incomplete) : the Estate will not give the effect from Adventure tokens put on the inherited cards pile, it is the inherited card itself by getting played via Estate. A question i am not sure about is wether it is possible to put Adventure tokens on the Estate pile. The new wording omits "yours", so it is arguable all Estates are Actions - in supply pile and also those owned by other players.

EDIT: Found it myself: Donald says the estate pile remains Victory only.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 05:17:10 am by Dominionaer »
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markusin

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2019, 08:09:53 am »
0

September 2019 errata updates:
  • The entire Inheritance section is out of date. If you inherit Crossroads, your Estates will now give +3 Actions, because you're playing the "Crossroads" card. Your Estates will give Adventures token effects, because it's playing cards from that pile. Your Estates are now Action-Victory cards, even if you Inherit a card that has more types than just Action.

I have the impression, the bolded part is technically incorrect (or perhaps incomplete) : the Estate will not give the effect from Adventure tokens put on the inherited cards pile, it is the inherited card itself by getting played via Estate. A question i am not sure about is wether it is possible to put Adventure tokens on the Estate pile. The new wording omits "yours", so it is arguable all Estates are Actions - in supply pile and also those owned by other players.

EDIT: Found it myself: Donald says the estate pile remains Victory only.

But, the card with the estate token originally came from the pile with the Adventures token. When I play a card from my hand and get the bonus from the Adventures token, it's not the card in my hand that has the token, it's the pile it came from. Why wouldn't an estate playing the inherited copy of the card (the card with the estate token) give you the adventures token bonus from the card it plays of that card's pile has the token?
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Donald X.

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2019, 01:37:14 pm »
0

September 2019 errata updates:
  • The entire Inheritance section is out of date. If you inherit Crossroads, your Estates will now give +3 Actions, because you're playing the "Crossroads" card. Your Estates will give Adventures token effects, because it's playing cards from that pile. Your Estates are now Action-Victory cards, even if you Inherit a card that has more types than just Action.

I have the impression, the bolded part is technically incorrect (or perhaps incomplete) : the Estate will not give the effect from Adventure tokens put on the inherited cards pile, it is the inherited card itself by getting played via Estate. A question i am not sure about is wether it is possible to put Adventure tokens on the Estate pile. The new wording omits "yours", so it is arguable all Estates are Actions - in supply pile and also those owned by other players.

EDIT: Found it myself: Donald says the estate pile remains Victory only.

But, the card with the estate token originally came from the pile with the Adventures token. When I play a card from my hand and get the bonus from the Adventures token, it's not the card in my hand that has the token, it's the pile it came from. Why wouldn't an estate playing the inherited copy of the card (the card with the estate token) give you the adventures token bonus from the card it plays of that card's pile has the token?
If for example you inherit Village, and use Training on Village, then when you play an Estate, you play the set-aside Village, and that's playing a card from the pile with the token, so you get +$1.
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Dominionaer

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2019, 01:44:32 pm »
+1

When you play the Estate, it has no token on its pile, so it does not produce the bonus. Estate orders you to play the inherited card and that one is ordered to get the bonus when played. I wrote "technically", meaning not the result is questioned, but the statement, which card causes bonus. I consider Titandrake wanted to emphasize the change now getting the tokens effect, but did so someway summarizing.

Edit : Ninjad by the master.
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markusin

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2019, 05:14:34 pm »
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When you play the Estate, it has no token on its pile, so it does not produce the bonus. Estate orders you to play the inherited card and that one is ordered to get the bonus when played. I wrote "technically", meaning not the result is questioned, but the statement, which card causes bonus. I consider Titandrake wanted to emphasize the change now getting the tokens effect, but did so someway summarizing.

Edit : Ninjad by the master.

Oops, it seems like I misunderstood what you were initially saying. I thought you were arguing that you don't get any token bonuses when playing inheritance estates.
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Jeebus

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2020, 11:37:29 am »
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Summon + Cards that Gain Other Cards on Gain

If you Summon Border Village or Death Cart, Summon won't play it next turn.

Wait, what?

Here's how Summon works, if you spell it all out.
* Gain an Action card costing up to $4.
* (The gained card goes to discard, or on top of the deck if you gain Nomad Camp.)
* (Summon looks for the card where it expects it to be, the discard or top of the deck for Nomad Camp.)
* It sets it aside, and if it did, it sets it aside next turn.

So what happens with the cards above? To quote the wiki:

Quote
Summoning a card that gains other cards when gained (such as Border Village or Death Cart) will cause the Summoned card to not be set aside, and thus not played at the start of your next turn. This is because the extra cards gained cover up the Summoned card in the discard pile (since the Summoned card is not set aside immediately), causing the Summoned card to be lost track of.

What you can do, however, is Summon a Border Village, then reveal Watchtower to topdeck the card gained from Border Village. Then Summon will successfully find the Border Village and set it aside.

The last part was never correct. Summon would lose track of the Border Village the moment it was covered, so it didn't help that it was uncovered again. Of course the whole section is obsolete now. (It applied to Replace too by the way, in addition to Summon.)

But the principle of covering and uncovering a card, causing lose-track, still applies to cards on top of your deck, although those scenarios are much rarer. I have thought of a few, here is one: You gain a Cursed Village onto your deck (with Artificer for instance). You have Innovation but you want to wait and see what Hex you get (maybe a discard Hex or something). But you get Greed, which covers the Cursed Village with a Copper. Now you can trash that Copper if you have Watchtower, but Innovation has still lost track of the Cursed Village.

grep

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2020, 10:36:29 pm »
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Summon is weird. In all other cases the discard pile is considered a set of cards without meaningful ordering, and many cards seek through the discard for some specific card - I don't understand how it is derived from the rules that Summon cannot do the same
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2020, 10:49:09 pm »
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Summon is weird. In all other cases the discard pile is considered a set of cards without meaningful ordering, and many cards seek through the discard for some specific card - I don't understand how it is derived from the rules that Summon cannot do the same

It can now, due to the errata!
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jonaskoelker

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2020, 07:39:42 pm »
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Playing Treasures During the Action Phase
So far, you can do this with Black Market and Storyteller.

In a wholly unsurprising turn of events, with Capitalism you can play your actions in your action phase as usual, but some of them will be treasures.

I don't think that's how you use Capitalism optimally.

You can also Crown a Smithy in your action phase, that's playing an (Action ) Treasure in your action phase.

With capitalism you can use a Black Market to play any number of action-treasure Black Markets and Storytellers. I would recommend you apply v2 of the "lose track" rule: if you deliberately make your opponents lose track of what the fuck is going on, game night is over.

Black Market and Storyteller are the only ways of playing non-action treasures in your action phase I know of.
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AJD

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Re: Occasionally Relevent Rule Edge-Cases
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2020, 02:28:25 am »
+1

Well, there's Reap.
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