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Author Topic: card tokens and action tokens  (Read 545 times)

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methods of rationality

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card tokens and action tokens
« on: September 05, 2017, 04:47:18 pm »
+1

We have coin tokens, why not card tokens and action tokens.

Card tokens can be exchanged at any time for + 1 card and action tokens for + 1 actions.

What cards could be made with this mechanic?
How much would you price a card that gave + 2 card tokens?
How would this mechanic change the game if it existed?
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werothegreat

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 06:48:55 pm »
+3

I think the problem with both of those is, why wouldn't you just spend them immediately?  Maybe you'd hold on to the +Action tokens, but then the functionality becomes pretty similar to Coin of the Realm.  Also, it becomes a lot harder to track Actions if you're spending tokens to get them.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 07:47:24 pm »
+1

Action tokens sound fun.
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crj

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 10:11:08 pm »
+1

Agreed, Coin of the Realm works a lot like a +Action token...

...so now I'm wondering what a fair price would be for an Action-Reserve: "+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat. / Directly after you finish playing a card, you may call this, for +1 Card." It's strictly better than a bare cantrip, awesome as a Tactician enabler and useful with topdecking, maybe useful stacked as a Native-Village-style megaturn enabler, but pretty insipid most of the time.
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Chappy7

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 11:42:13 pm »
0

I'm wondering what a fair price would be for an Action-Reserve: "+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat. / Directly after you finish playing a card, you may call this, for +1 Card."

$2 seems like not enough.  $3 might be too much.  Maybe 3 debt?
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Erick648

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 02:45:36 am »
0

...so now I'm wondering what a fair price would be for an Action-Reserve: "+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat. / Directly after you finish playing a card, you may call this, for +1 Card." It's strictly better than a bare cantrip, awesome as a Tactician enabler and useful with topdecking, maybe useful stacked as a Native-Village-style megaturn enabler, but pretty insipid most of the time.
You might want to check out this thread, which actually contains some discussion of this.
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Aquila

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 10:55:06 am »
0

I've had a play around with the idea of action tokens myself, making a few cards with them (posted here http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17079.0. There are other ideas there as well, I tried making a sort of expansion).

I think the problem with both of those is, why wouldn't you just spend them immediately?  Maybe you'd hold on to the +Action tokens, but then the functionality becomes pretty similar to Coin of the Realm.  Also, it becomes a lot harder to track Actions if you're spending tokens to get them.
I mostly agree to this. There isn't a lot of difference between them and Coin of the Realm, besides cards that give them not easily missing the shuffle, or being only playable every other shuffle in decks that fully draw themselves. You can also gain them outside of your turn easier, which opens up some new possible concepts. Overall, they're more reliable than CotR, and they can help make engines out of thicker decks that can't trash (or get thick with late game greening) as you aren't as dependant on the order you draw your cards in; for this reason, action tokens work extremely well with non-terminal draw.
For tracking, I've moved tokens into play as if they were CotR and kept them there until Clean-up.

And about card tokens, I'm pretty sure wero is right in saying you would use them straight away, as it's never wrong not to unlike with action or coin tokens. So, I don't think it's possible to make a card that genuinely needs to give them out. If you take them during your turn they may as well just be + cards, if you try giving them to others they're doing Lost City or Council Room, if you give them to yourself after your turn they're Expedition, and for individual cases like Tactician there's already Pathfinding and Teacher.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:09:53 pm by Aquila »
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crj

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2017, 02:47:05 pm »
+1

And about card tokens, I'm pretty sure wero is right in saying you would use them straight away, as it's never wrong not to unlike with action or coin tokens.
Huh? Am I missing something, here? It's obvious to me that an extra card whenever you want is strictly more useful than an extra card right now.

Trivial example: you have no more actions, enough money for a Colony, no +Buy. Why on earth would you draw an extra card now rather than later?
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Chappy7

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 06:02:46 pm »
0


Huh? Am I missing something, here? It's obvious to me that an extra card whenever you want is strictly more useful than an extra card right now.


I agree.  There are lots of times where it would be helpful to save a +card token or a + action token.  Say you had a smithy in token form.  If you draw a regular smithy without a village, it kinda sucks. Token smithy lets you play it any time without fear of drawing actions dead. Or you could spend one token, see what you draw, spend the next token, see what you draw, and then save the last one if you drew enough $ or the right action card.  +card tokens seems really powerful to me. 
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GendoIkari

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 07:37:01 pm »
0

And about card tokens, I'm pretty sure wero is right in saying you would use them straight away, as it's never wrong not to unlike with action or coin tokens.
Huh? Am I missing something, here? It's obvious to me that an extra card whenever you want is strictly more useful than an extra card right now.

Trivial example: you have no more actions, enough money for a Colony, no +Buy. Why on earth would you draw an extra card now rather than later?

It's true that it's strictly better. But it might also be true that you want the card now the vast majority of the time. I think the biggest problem with the card is that in your hand, it's as bad as a curse.
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Aquila

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 07:29:18 am »
0


Huh? Am I missing something, here? It's obvious to me that an extra card whenever you want is strictly more useful than an extra card right now.


I agree.  There are lots of times where it would be helpful to save a +card token or a + action token.  Say you had a smithy in token form.  If you draw a regular smithy without a village, it kinda sucks. Token smithy lets you play it any time without fear of drawing actions dead. Or you could spend one token, see what you draw, spend the next token, see what you draw, and then save the last one if you drew enough $ or the right action card.  +card tokens seems really powerful to me.
Yes, these are fair points and I take back my naive comment. I guess when I wrote what I did I was still thinking about drawing the whole deck, where card tokens wouldn't mean much. Every other kind of deck, sure they're good. Even in drawing the whole deck, a card token may make all the difference as it can draw a Village when you have 2 Smithies in hand.

The OP asks what cards could be made, and I anticipate that of all the + tokens, card tokens would have the most impact at the Night Phase. Add to that the possibility of getting them outside your turn and I thought of:
Quote
Night. $4 cost. Discard any number of cards. Take a card token per 2 cards discarded.
Use them immediately and other night cards can do more stuff, or keep them for your next turn. 1 token for every 2 cards I guess would be balanced. Wouldn't be surprised if the cost would even be $5.
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josh56

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Re: card tokens and action tokens
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 10:04:09 am »
0

How about something like that, too strong?

Ghost Town
$4
Action
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
-------------
While this is in play, when you gain a card, take a Card token.
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