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Author Topic: Banning 5 Cards  (Read 3467 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2017, 09:50:42 am »
0

But on a board where there are engines, I find that more often than not you need to pick one that exploits Fool's Gold, or get squashed. And it's not good to let one player flood their deck with it, so it's often necessary to compete/mirror.

Well, it's a Treasure card that gives you money, and that's all it does. Usually you need Treasure cards that give you money to kickstart engines.

I don't remember the last time I bought more Fool's Golds than I wanted for my own deck just to deny them from the opponent.
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Marcory

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2017, 12:35:45 pm »
+5

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johnnyhala

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2017, 12:59:37 pm »
0

Long time lurker, first time poster.

My cards to ban would be:

Rebuild
Familiar
Kings Court
Cultist
Knights
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achmed_sender

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 02:21:23 pm »
0

Rebuild
Cultist
Chapel
Familiar
Governor
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JW

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2017, 02:49:35 pm »
0

Possession (encourages ruining your own deck, and can lead to stalemates), Rebuild and Cultist (more than any other cards, they can lead to boring, monolithic games) are the three cards I'd most like to ban.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2017, 08:41:07 pm »
+1

Rebuild
Possession
Whatever else I'm finding annoying at the time


What I'd actually like to see is a system where you get to rate each card in terms of how much you enjoy playing with it, and then the average of your and your opponent's ratings determines how likely each card is to show up. Obviously that would take more work to set up.
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Chappy7

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2017, 11:17:38 pm »
0

1. Page
2. Rebuild
3. Chapel
4. Donate
5. Storyteller
(6. Ghost Ship)
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dedicateddan

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2017, 12:14:51 am »
+2

I think it's a great idea. Sometimes, certain cards don't mesh well with certain players. My list would be:

1. Transmute
2. Transmute
3. Transmute
4. Transmute
5. Transmute
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Marcory

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2017, 06:45:04 am »
0

I think it's a great idea. Sometimes, certain cards don't mesh well with certain players. My list would be:

1. Transmute
2. Transmute
3. Transmute
4. Transmute
5. Transmute

But Transmute is an awesome card! It lets you get more Transmutes!
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Deadlock39

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2017, 08:54:03 am »
+11

I think it's a great idea. Sometimes, certain cards don't mesh well with certain players. My list would be:

1. Transmute
2. Transmute
3. Transmute
4. Transmute
5. Transmute

But Transmute is an awesome card! It lets you get more Transmutes!

That's why you have to ban it 5 times.

Awaclus

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2017, 09:09:32 am »
+3

But Transmute is an awesome card! It lets you get more Transmutes!

That's why it oftentimes results in monolithic strategies where you mostly ignore all other cards in the Supply.
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Chris is me

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2017, 09:21:02 am »
0

(re: my earlier list - thinking I'll put Transmute in for Harvest, since the niche Bonfire rush thing is all it has going for it)

Fool's Good is pretty rarely dominant; most fools gold rush strategies will lose to even weak engines.
But on a board where there are engines, I find that more often than not you need to pick one that exploits Fool's Gold, or get squashed. And it's not good to let one player flood their deck with it, so it's often necessary to compete/mirror.

I'd certainly go for it in any non-Colony game with a source of +Buy and even light trashing.

It's really not that crazy though - it's just a cheaper option for economy in those games, so it plays a little faster. It's not so dominant that you ignore stronger engine strategies, and it's not like if the game has a Gold gainer like Courtier etc you're gonna always ignore it to rush Fool's Golds.

I'd say maybe half the time I pick up some Fools' Golds, and I go for it too often. When I see someone just rush it on a strong engine board, I generally feel pretty good, as it means I have a little time.
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Cuzz

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2017, 10:09:30 am »
+6

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Agreed. People complain about rebuild and possession and swindler but these here ruin more games than all of those put together.
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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2017, 11:48:56 am »
0

Rebuild ofc
Page(can Donate be one?)
Familiar
Lurker
Sauna Avanto
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Kirian

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2017, 01:27:58 pm »
0

Possession
Rebuild
Tournament
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2017, 11:22:28 pm »
+2

Donald X recently said he'd appreciate a system where each player can ban up to 5 kingdom cards and still play rated games where the union of the two sets of banned card is banned.

1 - Is this a good idea?
2- What would you ban?
Most people have not responded to #1. I say yes. I've been wishing something like this was an option for a long time. (But I haven't been playing that much recently.)

I'd ban Rebuild, Tournament, Possession, Governor, [EDIT] then maybe Ghost Ship (or Salt the Earth, or Transmute...) and Ill Gotten Gains. (Just remembered my 5th most disliked card.)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 12:07:57 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Chappy7

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2017, 11:41:08 pm »
0

Donald X recently said he'd appreciate a system where each player can ban up to 5 kingdom cards and still play rated games where the union of the two sets of banned card is banned.

1 - Is this a good idea?
2- What would you ban?
Most people have not responded to #1. I say yes. I've been wishing something like this was an option for a long time. (But I haven't been playing that much recently.)

I'd ban Rebuild, Tournament, Possession, Governor, then maybe Ghost Ship (or Salt the Earth, or Transmute...)

I agree.  I think it is a really good idea.  Although if everyone has really similar lists of five, those cards might as well not exist or get 2nd editioned. 
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2017, 01:00:50 am »
+1

My list:

1. Potion
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Jacob marley

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2017, 03:31:55 pm »
0

I'd assume that anyone who posts their ban list is implicitly answering yes to question 1.  My list:

Possession
Rebuild
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crj

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2017, 05:45:16 pm »
0

I'd assume that anyone who posts their ban list is implicitly answering yes to question 1.
Not necessarily. I responded to question 2 because there are cards I dislike, but I abstained from question 1 because I don't play online.
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Shvegait

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2017, 10:36:39 pm »
0

What I'd actually like to see is a system where you get to rate each card in terms of how much you enjoy playing with it, and then the average of your and your opponent's ratings determines how likely each card is to show up. Obviously that would take more work to set up.

This is how I think the ban list should work, but without a rating, just a Yes/No. You "ban" some cards, and your opponent "bans" some cards. If both of you have a certain card "banned", you won't play with it. It's not a real ban, but if you and your opponent mutually agree that you would like nothing more than to never see Rebuild, it won't show up, and you'll both have more fun.

But if someone wants to play with a rotation of all the cards, including the most hated ones, they would still get to do that, even at high rankings where maybe a lot of players have Rebuild or Possession or whatever "banned".

The problems with a ban system where one player banning the cards means they absolutely won't show up ever, in auto-matched games, are:
1) Some players may want to play with a selection of all the cards, and don't really have this as a choice if banning cards is popular
2) You could, potentially, game the overall rating system slightly by banning your personal lowest win % cards

Maybe the effects of both of these are very minor. But requiring both players to have "banned" the card to prevent it from showing up would solve these problems. On the flip side, the banning might not do much at all in this case, if hardly anyone uses the feature...

As a compromise, what might work is what Jimmmmm suggested, but only with ratings of 100% and 0% (could still just be implemented as a 5 card ban list). If one player "bans" the card, the chance of it appearing is halved relative to the normal probability of it appearing. If both players ban it, it will never show up. Might be a reasonable compromise, since still any card *could* show up (vs. players who may prefer to see that card), and you would still see your least favorite cards less often.
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JW

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2017, 12:54:33 am »
0

I am in favor of this idea but I had a slightly different take on how it should be implemented:

What about: List one: Indicate up to three of your most disliked cards.
List two: Indicate any other disliked cards

Cards in any players' three most disliked cards never get used for filling in random kingdom events/cards. In addition, cards that are in all players' set of disliked cards never get used.

There is a table option to turn off this feature for tournaments and the like, but games found through any kind of matching always have the feature on.
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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2017, 07:29:42 am »
+2

I think not the union but the intersection should be taken.
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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2017, 08:01:44 am »
0

Honestly I'd just like fewer random games with Landmarks. I'm cool with an Event in a majority of games, but I think Landmark use should only come with an Empires kingdom card.
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Jacob marley

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Re: Banning 5 Cards
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2017, 12:16:10 pm »
+2

What I'd actually like to see is a system where you get to rate each card in terms of how much you enjoy playing with it, and then the average of your and your opponent's ratings determines how likely each card is to show up. Obviously that would take more work to set up.

This is how I think the ban list should work, but without a rating, just a Yes/No. You "ban" some cards, and your opponent "bans" some cards. If both of you have a certain card "banned", you won't play with it. It's not a real ban, but if you and your opponent mutually agree that you would like nothing more than to never see Rebuild, it won't show up, and you'll both have more fun.

But if someone wants to play with a rotation of all the cards, including the most hated ones, they would still get to do that, even at high rankings where maybe a lot of players have Rebuild or Possession or whatever "banned".

The problems with a ban system where one player banning the cards means they absolutely won't show up ever, in auto-matched games, are:
1) Some players may want to play with a selection of all the cards, and don't really have this as a choice if banning cards is popular
2) You could, potentially, game the overall rating system slightly by banning your personal lowest win % cards

Maybe the effects of both of these are very minor. But requiring both players to have "banned" the card to prevent it from showing up would solve these problems. On the flip side, the banning might not do much at all in this case, if hardly anyone uses the feature...

As a compromise, what might work is what Jimmmmm suggested, but only with ratings of 100% and 0% (could still just be implemented as a 5 card ban list). If one player "bans" the card, the chance of it appearing is halved relative to the normal probability of it appearing. If both players ban it, it will never show up. Might be a reasonable compromise, since still any card *could* show up (vs. players who may prefer to see that card), and you would still see your least favorite cards less often.

I flat out disagree.  If the feature is to be implemented, I will ban Possession because I hate the card and find it unfun.  That means I never want to see it again.  With your suggestion, I would then have to restrict myself to playing others who also ban it, which restricts my pool of available players and lengthens wait times.

If we are going to go that route, then why have a ban list?
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