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Author Topic: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room  (Read 814 times)

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Reepacheep

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Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:13:44 pm »
+2

If a player cannot reveal a Gold or Plunder after drawing the first 2-cards but can after drawing the second set of cards, is it saved or not?
Does it have to go back to the supply or can the player keep it in their deck?
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Kirian

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 06:20:42 pm »
+9

It gets set aside the first time it's played, before the second set of cards is drawn, so it'll go back to the supply.
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Reepacheep

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 12:55:36 pm »
+1

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?
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Deadlock39

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 01:05:48 pm »
+2

Well, you play cards by taking them from your hand and putting them into play. How do you play a card again when it is already in play? The answer is, Throne Room says to do it so you do. Playing a card when it is set aside isn't really weirder than playing a card when it is in play.

Things don't get delayed to cleanup unless the effect says it happens in cleanup.

GendoIkari

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 01:56:36 pm »
+2

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?

Cards don't need to be in play to do things. If you play Embargo, you must trash when you play it, but you still do the rest of the instructions on the card. If you use Throne Room to play Embargo, then you still play it the second time, and it will still do all the things it does when you play it. It will just already be in the trash, and stay in the trash, at that point.
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Awaclus

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 02:35:02 pm »
+4

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?

Well, this is actually not very complicated. When you play a card, you follow all of the instructions on the card from top to bottom, except for the ones that you can't. Generally, cards are supposed to do literally exactly what's printed on them, word-for-word, so it's almost as if you were reading program code.

So, this is what happens when you play Encampment with Throne Room:

Throne Room tells you to play an Action card from your hand twice, so you choose Encampment.
You play Encampment.
You get +2 Cards.
You get +2 Actions.
You may reveal a Gold or a Plunder. If you don't, Encampment is set aside.
You play Encampment again.
You get +2 Cards.
You get +2 Actions.
You may reveal a Gold or a Plunder. If you don't, Encampment is set aside.

This is what happens with Mining Village:

Throne Room tells you to play an Action card from your hand twice, so you choose Mining Village.
You play Mining Village.
You get +1 Card.
You get +2 Actions.
You may trash Mining Village. (let's assume that you choose to trash it here)
If you trashed Mining Village, you get +$2, so you get it because you trashed it.
You play Mining Village again.
You get +1 Card.
You get +2 Actions.
You attempt to follow the instruction "You may trash this", but it fails because the card is already in the trash.
If you trashed Mining Village, you get +$2, but you didn't because it was already in the trash so you don't get +$2.

This is how it works for Feast:

Throne Room tells you to play an Action card from your hand twice, so you choose Feast.
You play Feast.
You trash Feast.
You gain a card costing up to $5.
You play Feast again.
You attempt to trash Feast, but it fails because it's already in the trash.
You gain a card costing up to $5.

Reepacheep

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 02:42:27 pm »
0

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?

Cards don't need to be in play to do things. If you play Embargo, you must trash when you play it, but you still do the rest of the instructions on the card. If you use Throne Room to play Embargo, then you still play it the second time, and it will still do all the things it does when you play it. It will just already be in the trash, and stay in the trash, at that point.

So, in the case of Engineer, can you gain 4 cards? or a max of just 3 cards when you use Crown/Throne Room.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 02:45:09 pm »
+1

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?

Cards don't need to be in play to do things. If you play Embargo, you must trash when you play it, but you still do the rest of the instructions on the card. If you use Throne Room to play Embargo, then you still play it the second time, and it will still do all the things it does when you play it. It will just already be in the trash, and stay in the trash, at that point.

So, in the case of Engineer, can you gain 4 cards? or a max of just 3 cards when you use Crown/Throne Room.

A max of 3.
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Chris is me

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 02:50:35 pm »
0

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?

Cards don't need to be in play to do things. If you play Embargo, you must trash when you play it, but you still do the rest of the instructions on the card. If you use Throne Room to play Embargo, then you still play it the second time, and it will still do all the things it does when you play it. It will just already be in the trash, and stay in the trash, at that point.

So, in the case of Engineer, can you gain 4 cards? or a max of just 3 cards when you use Crown/Throne Room.

The "if you do" clause essentially limits it to 3 gains in this scenario.
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LaLight

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 03:21:37 pm »
+6

If the "set aside" happens after the first play then how does it get 2 more cards and 2 more actions?
I know some cards specify "during the clean up phase". Should "set aside" and "trash" default to "clean up phase" or always happen immediately? Can you only get the "trash" benefit if done as only the second option (I.e. Engineer, Mining Village) and not at all on cards like Feast?

Well, this is actually not very complicated. When you play a card, you follow all of the instructions on the card from top to bottom, except for the ones that you can't. Generally, cards are supposed to do literally exactly what's printed on them, word-for-word, so it's almost as if you were reading program code.

So, this is what happens when you play Encampment with Throne Room:

Throne Room tells you to play an Action card from your hand twice, so you choose Encampment.
You play Encampment.
You get +2 Cards.
You get +2 Actions.
You may reveal a Gold or a Plunder. If you don't, Encampment is set aside.
You play Encampment again.
You get +2 Cards.
You get +2 Actions.
You may reveal a Gold or a Plunder. If you don't, Encampment is set aside.

This is what happens with Mining Village:

Throne Room tells you to play an Action card from your hand twice, so you choose Mining Village.
You play Mining Village.
You get +1 Card.
You get +2 Actions.
You may trash Mining Village. (let's assume that you choose to trash it here)
If you trashed Mining Village, you get +$2, so you get it because you trashed it.
You play Mining Village again.
You get +1 Card.
You get +2 Actions.
You attempt to follow the instruction "You may trash this", but it fails because the card is already in the trash.
If you trashed Mining Village, you get +$2, but you didn't because it was already in the trash so you don't get +$2.

This is how it works for Feast:

Throne Room tells you to play an Action card from your hand twice, so you choose Feast.
You play Feast.
You trash Feast.
You gain a card costing up to $5.
You play Feast again.
You attempt to trash Feast, but it fails because it's already in the trash.
You gain a card costing up to $5.

What's "feast"?
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Kirian

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 04:49:39 pm »
+9

What's "feast"?

It's a large meal where lots of people get together, but that's not important right now.
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Scoobie

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2017, 04:58:17 pm »
+2

What's "feast"?

It's a large meal where lots of people get together, but that's not important right now.

While amusing, this is not very helpful!

LaLight: Feast is a card that was removed from the first edition of Dominion when the second edition was produced.

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Feast

It creates many questions on how it interacts with other cards, so you will probably see it referenced to if you read old threads.
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Awaclus

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2017, 05:05:32 pm »
+1

LaLight: Feast is a card that was removed from the first edition of Dominion when the second edition was produced.

He knows. It's a joke.

Skumpy

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2017, 05:50:17 pm »
+2

What's "feast"?

It's a large meal where lots of people get together, but that's not important right now.

This bothers me because you're not supposed to use the 'What is it?' gag when someone is actually asking for a definition. I don't wanna be joke police and I appreciate the reference, but it irks me when my favorite movie isn't Tributed properly   :(
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GendoIkari

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2017, 05:53:54 pm »
+3

What's "feast"?

It's a large meal where lots of people get together, but that's not important right now.

This bothers me because you're not supposed to use the 'What is it?' gag when someone is actually asking for a definition. I don't wanna be joke police and I appreciate the reference, but it irks me when my favorite movie isn't Tributed properly   :(

There's news about Feast? What is it?
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DG

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2017, 08:44:35 pm »
0

I don't wanna be joke police and I appreciate the reference, but it irks me when my favorite movie isn't Tributed properly   :(

Police Squad?
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Dingan

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2017, 08:59:14 pm »
0

Just to elaborate on what has already been said..

- "If you do something..." is different than "If you did something...".  E.g. "If you trash me..." is different than "If you trashed me..." or "If I'm in the trash...". This used to confuse me about Mining Village, Feast (I get it, Feast jokes are a thing), etc.

- When following a card's instructions top-to-bottom, if you come across an instruction that you cannot do -- you still continue on to the instructions after it (if you can do any of them). Feast, Altar, etc.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 09:00:16 pm by Dingan »
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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2017, 09:37:26 pm »
+2

What's "feast"?

I want to live in a Dominion world where this question is asked in earnest.  Where new players are inculcated within the second edition, and only later are told tales of the dark times before gender neutral wordings.
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Kirian

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2017, 12:36:02 am »
+1

I don't wanna be joke police and I appreciate the reference, but it irks me when my favorite movie isn't Tributed properly   :(

Police Squad?


Close.  Airplane.
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Jeebus

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2017, 10:31:58 am »
0

Just to elaborate on what has already been said..

- "If you do something..." is different than "If you did something...".  E.g. "If you trash me..." is different than "If you trashed me..." or "If I'm in the trash...". This used to confuse me about Mining Village, Feast (I get it, Feast jokes are a thing), etc.

- When following a card's instructions top-to-bottom, if you come across an instruction that you cannot do -- you still continue on to the instructions after it (if you can do any of them). Feast, Altar, etc.

I don't think there's a difference. What do you think the difference is?

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's more technically correct with "if you did" on all cards, considering that we're following the instructions one by one. 1) You may trash a card. 2) If you did...

Most cards use "do", but some, like Soothsayer, use "did". But the meaning is exactly the same, it's just a matter of what sounds better in English.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 02:08:59 pm by Jeebus »
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crj

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2017, 01:32:43 pm »
0

I... think I can see a really subtle difference:
  • Do this twice: Trash a card. If you do, gain a card costing less than it.
  • Do this twice: Trash a card. If you did, gain a card costing less than it.
To me the former subtly implies that you trash-gain-trash-gain and the latter that you trash-trash-gain-gain. But it's a pretty weak implication, and there would surely be a clearer way of wording such a card.

I agree the difference is mostly stylistic.
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Donald X.

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Re: Encampment with Crown or Throne Room
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2017, 03:50:40 pm »
0

Most cards use "do", but some, like Soothsayer, use "did". But the meaning is exactly the same, it's just a matter of what sounds better in English.
Correct, it's just trying to read well. In general these days "you may" sounds better to me with "do" and mandatory things with "did," though at first I didn't think it through.
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