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Author Topic: Heirloom Speculation  (Read 2915 times)

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crj

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2017, 12:46:29 pm »
0

So... what would be a fair price for Counterfeit if "gain a Curse. If you do," was inserted after "When you play this,"?

$0? Give or take?

I think there's scope for heirlooms, whatever they are, however many there are, whether they're all the same or of various kinds, to be cards which pair significant benefits with significant penalties. The further down that route they go, the more they'll shake the game up.
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ackmondual

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2017, 04:06:23 am »
+2

I'm predicting they won't all be treasures. My current guess is 2 action cards of some kind, 1 night card, 4 treasures. At least 4 differently named cards.
Taking a page off Shelters, of which only 1 of them ended up being Victory card to replace the Estates that were (and even then, barely, as the Overgrown Estate is worth 0pts), it's quite conceivable we'll see that here as well with the Coppers.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2017, 10:51:04 am »
+1

So... what would be a fair price for Counterfeit if "gain a Curse. If you do," was inserted after "When you play this,"?

$0? Give or take?

Replacing your starting Coppers with Curses (and + $3 total that turn) is still really bad. Maybe it would be worth playing it to buy a power $5, but I'm not sure you would do it otherwise. That being said...as an optional ability on a card you want to trash anyway...that might actually work out.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 05:19:40 pm »
0

How many people in this forum (aside from donaldx) already know exactly what the Heirlooms are?
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teamlyle

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 05:33:21 pm »
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I think Stef and Phillip know. On the livestream for the League finals, Phillip said something about meeting with Stef to discuss Nocturne implementation, which I assume means that Donald has revealed the cards (or card-shaped things) to the Dominion Online people.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2017, 05:37:18 pm »
+2

How many people in this forum (aside from donaldx) already know exactly what the Heirlooms are?

I think Stef and Phillip know. On the livestream for the League finals, Phillip said something about meeting with Stef to discuss Nocturne implementation, which I assume means that Donald has revealed the cards (or card-shaped things) to the Dominion Online people.

Yes, they know. I have to imagine they are currently implementing Nocturne or have already done so, but I do not know with certainty.

I know what Heirlooms are, of course. All the playtesters and most lapsed/former playtesters know, though I won't list them here since some seem not to want to be outed. I don't know why, but there it is.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 05:40:16 pm by LastFootnote »
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2017, 05:42:46 pm »
0

I think Stef and Phillip know. On the livestream for the League finals, Phillip said something about meeting with Stef to discuss Nocturne implementation, which I assume means that Donald has revealed the cards (or card-shaped things) to the Dominion Online people.

Yes, they know. I have to imagine they are currently implementing Nocturne or have already done so, but I do not know with certainty.

I know what Heirlooms are, of course. All the other playtesters and most lapsed/former playtesters know, though I won't list them here since some seem not to want to be outed. I don't know why, but there it is.

Thanks for that.

Obviously, it takes some fun out of speculation threads when people hide what information they know in order to A) "guess" correctly or B) mess with people.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2017, 05:46:18 pm »
+1

I think Stef and Phillip know. On the livestream for the League finals, Phillip said something about meeting with Stef to discuss Nocturne implementation, which I assume means that Donald has revealed the cards (or card-shaped things) to the Dominion Online people.
but I do not know with certainty.
I do!

http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=2036.0
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LastFootnote

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2017, 05:54:17 pm »
0

Obviously, it takes some fun out of speculation threads when people hide what information they know in order to A) "guess" correctly or B) mess with people.

I don't think that really happens, though. I have not seen "secret" testers pretending to guess in the past, they mostly just keep quiet. I'm not sure what you qualify as messing with people, but I don't think that happens either.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2017, 06:15:10 pm »
0

Obviously, it takes some fun out of speculation threads when people hide what information they know in order to A) "guess" correctly or B) mess with people.

I don't think that really happens, though. I have not seen "secret" testers pretending to guess in the past, they mostly just keep quiet. I'm not sure what you qualify as messing with people, but I don't think that happens either.

I'm not suggesting that HAS happened here, but it happens in other domains all the time. Really I just wanted anyone participating in this thread to be aware that some people know the answers already.
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crj

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2017, 10:59:43 pm »
0

All the playtesters and most lapsed/former playtesters know
Might one infer from the "lapsed/former" bit that Heirlooms are an idea that has been sitting around for a while, waiting for its day to come?

Or do we have to wait until the secret history?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 12:10:04 am »
0

Might one infer from the "lapsed/former" bit that Heirlooms are an idea that has been sitting around for a while, waiting for its day to come?

Or do we have to wait until the secret history?

You can infer whatever you like! It's a free country internet.

But yes, I'd wait for the secret history if I were you.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 12:26:38 am by LastFootnote »
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ackmondual

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2017, 03:54:32 am »
+1

How many people in this forum (aside from donaldx) already know exactly what the Heirlooms are?
13 thus far....
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=711950;topic=17474.0;last_msg=719228
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Morghas

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2017, 04:15:22 am »
0

Some ideas that haven't been mentioned:

A heirloom could allow each play to chose a card available from the supply up to $x to replace a copper in their starting hand. No extra printing cost and a nice interesting option if there were multiple good options out there.

Also I don't see why heirlooms would have to be restricted to $0 - $2 cost cards. If both players get the same thing or same choices available to them then maybe there could be a $6 card in there? Why not? It would make for some more interesting remodel options at the start game.

Bring on Nocture! I'm pumped.
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Violet CLM

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2017, 02:21:48 am »
+1

A thought--should "Heirloom" be somehow similar to "Inheritance"? But maybe more temporary?

Heirloom (Action-Treasure, $0)
If it's your Action phase, play this as if it were an Action card from the supply costing $3 or less, then trash this. If it's your Buy phase, $1.
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sorawotobu

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2017, 04:47:14 am »
+7

Heirlooms could be just like Coppers early in the game but different later. For example

Quote
+1$
Count your discard pile. If there are at least 15 cards in it, +1$

or

Quote
+1$
+1$ per unique cost among Action cards you have in play

or

Quote
+1$
+1$ for each Province missing from the supply

The first one seems most reasonable albeit possibly annoying to play with, the second is probably way too strong and swingy since it might be worth 3$ on turn 3 or might be worth 1$. The third one needs a better wording but +9/-1 per Province in the supply doesn't work for multiplayer games; with that kind of wording you would first have to differentiate between the number of players in the game, then give out coins accordingly, then deduct coins for Provinces. These examples are more to illustrate the general directions in which I think Heirlooms might be going than real guesses.

Like Shelters, these designs only rarely change the opening, which means you don't get T1/T2 blowouts like you would with some of the designs suggested here. They might not all be like this, these are sort of the Necropolises among Heirlooms. If the trashing theme returns, other Heirlooms could be more like Overgrown Estate and Hovel (could even have the exact same text).

As to the question of how many Heirlooms there will be, the set has 500 cards and 33 Kingdom piles, with 0-1 Victory piles that would be 363-365 cards. The remaining 135-137 could be:
  • Boons
  • Hexes
  • Travellers
  • Events
  • Heirlooms

If Fate and Doom are card types, this could mean that Boons and Hexes are in the supply, just like Looters put Ruins in the supply but cards adding Spoils to the game do not have an extra type. Hopefully there aren't 60 of each, otherwise there won't be much room for anything else.

I'm mentioning Travellers because this would be in line with Dark Ages' upgrading theme (Mercenary/Madman). Two Traveller lines would add 40 cards.

Given that Donald X said he's pretty much out of ideas when it comes to Events, most of the Empires events relied on the tokens in that set and that Nocturne will not have any tokens, there may or may not be some Events but there probably won't be a lot.

If we assume 0 Victory piles, 30 each for Boons/Hexes, 2 Traveller lines and 0 Events, that leaves us just 2 cards short of being able to fit in 42 Heirlooms, i.e. 7 per player for 6 players. If there are just upgrade piles ŗ la Merc/Madman (or no upgrading) there would be enough room for all the Heirlooms. Which means they might replace all your Coppers, although this would of course make Moneylender/Miser quite sad, sadder even than Baron with Shelters. I'm leaning towards not all Coppers being replaced.
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infangthief

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2017, 10:05:11 am »
+2

Heirlooms could be just like Coppers early in the game but different later. For example

Quote
+1$
Count your discard pile. If there are at least 15 cards in it, +1$

or

Quote
+1$
+1$ per unique cost among Action cards you have in play

or

Quote
+1$
+1$ for each Province missing from the supply


I like these because they make heirlooms improve with age if you keep them, very thematic.
I don't like these because they're so slow to calculate.
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KingPeter

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2017, 01:41:27 pm »
+2

Heirlooms could be just like Coppers early in the game but different later. For example

Quote
+1$
Count your discard pile. If there are at least 15 cards in it, +1$

or

Quote
+1$
+1$ per unique cost among Action cards you have in play

or

Quote
+1$
+1$ for each Province missing from the supply

The great thing about these is that for the first few turns (usually), they still give +$1, like Copper.  When shelters came in, they didn't change the buying power first two turns much, so I would imagine Heirlooms will do the same.
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ycz6

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2017, 09:23:01 pm »
+3

I like that idea! I think it makes sense if they can never be worth too much, like the first one. Bringing the other two in line would give you
Quote
+$1
+$1 if you have at least 3 Action cards in play
and
Quote
+$1
+$1 if a Province has been gained this game

You could use a Trade Route token to track the second one.

Other ideas:
Quote
+$1
+$1 per empty supply pile
Quote
+$1
You may reveal a Curse in your hand for +$1.
Quote
+$1
When you buy a Victory card, you may trash this from play.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 09:24:39 pm by ycz6 »
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Oyvind

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2017, 07:43:35 pm »
0

Iíve thought about these for a while, and since theyíre heirlooms, it should probably be beneficial for you to keep them all. Maybe theyíre even the first cards youíre not able to trash? If one of the heirlooms is a title, like Royal, it would make sense not to be able to trash it. Weíre all supposed to be queens or kings, right?

They may even have some synergy with Inheritance, but how would that work? These are clearly made as copper equivalents to shelters. Which of course means that youíll have six full sets, however many each player will get. If they replace all your starting coppers, which I assume they will, thereíll be 42 of them in total. I also think each set will be seven unique cards. Some may even be a duration like Hireling, or something youíll first get into your deck as soon as youíve gained a province.

I really donít know, but I think we may be thinking a bit too narrowly. The new cards donít need to work like the ones we already have. Iím pretty sure DXV has come up with some really clever ideas, just like when he recently added both events and landmarks. Who can honestly say they foresaw that? I certainly didnít. Why shouldnít he be able to surprise us with another brand new mechanic? Actually, I think he will.

Since Nocturne will introduce the new Night cards, my guess is that some of the heirlooms will be night cards (and one of them can even be a self-curser). Say you inherit something like Necronomicon. You canít get rid of it, and itís definitely cursed. Iím guessing it could be the first treasure/curse card. Both giving some monetary value (probably only 1 to not get wildly different starts at the beginnng of the game) and being a curse. Come to think of it, being granted a title at birth could really become a curse as well.

My guess is that boons and hexes are simply card names, just like spoils. Fate and doom cards are probably card types, like the looters. So, what can Night cards be? What we know is that they do something after the buy phase. Night cards can be gainers depending on what you draw for your next hand. They might do something with the cards youíre about to clean up. We donít know if they do something before, during or after clean-up.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 07:47:17 pm by Oyvind »
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hypercube

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2017, 08:08:26 pm »
0

My guess is that boons and hexes are simply card names, just like spoils. Fate and doom cards are probably card types, like the looters.

I was thinking that Fate and Doom might be card-shaped object types instead -- maybe they're like Landmarks, but give out something good/bad based on some condition.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Heirloom Speculation
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2017, 09:40:39 am »
+1

If all the Heirlooms all have different names, I wonder what they will be?
Clasp, Trinket, Necklace, Memento, Journal, Signet Ring, are some of my predictions.
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