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Author Topic: King & Queen  (Read 1207 times)

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werothegreat

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King & Queen
« on: August 10, 2017, 01:04:14 pm »
+2

An idea I had.  Thought of the King first, then came up with an idea for the Queen.


King
Action-Duration

For the rest of the game, after you finish playing a card, if it was the first time you played a copy of that card this turn and it's still in play, play it again.
(This stays in play.)

Queen
Action-Duration

At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, trash a Province from the Supply.
------
While this is in play, when you play a card, +1.
(This stays in play.)

EDIT: King should probably say "another card" so it doesn't trigger itself.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 01:06:57 pm by werothegreat »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 02:41:04 pm »
0

Congratulations. You have managed to make a card that is an even more obnoxious VP-trasher than Rebuild.
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Awaclus

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 02:43:58 pm »
+1

Congratulations. You have managed to make a card that is an even more obnoxious VP-trasher than Rebuild.

Is it really that bad? It's just one per turn, the card is super expensive, and it also provides an infinite supply of alt VP.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2017, 02:45:40 pm »
+1

Queen: Whoever hits $9 first wins the game!
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2017, 03:03:15 pm »
0

Queen: Whoever hits $9 first wins the game!

I was going to say "not necessarily", but I think you're actually right. Or rather, whoever plays Queen first. Even if they can't play anymore Actions that turn, they get +1 VP for each Treasure they play.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 03:20:23 pm »
0

Queen: Whoever hits $9 first wins the game!

I was going to say "not necessarily", but I think you're actually right. Or rather, whoever plays Queen first. Even if they can't play anymore Actions that turn, they get +1 VP for each Treasure they play.

Huh? +1 VP for each Treasure they play on a given turn is not at all the equivalent of winning the game. On paper, an engine deck should be able to play Queen at least two turns behind a big money deck and still win, and because it cycles faster, that probably means buying Queen 3-5 turns later than BM. If you can get a second Queen, you can catch up even better.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2017, 04:52:42 pm »
0

Yeah, Queen is probably busted.  I had the idea of "when you play a card, +1", but being able to do that forever is ridiculous, so I added the Province trashing to give it a timer, of sorts.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 09:35:18 am »
0

Maybe limit it to just action cards or treasure cards, not both
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 10:44:59 am »
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I had an idea for a new traveler series that goes Servant, Mistress, Assassin, Royal Fiance, Queen. Haven't nailed down exactly what they all do.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 04:38:38 pm »
0

it also provides an infinite supply of alt VP.

Eh, not so much.  By the time you buy this super expensive card, and play it, people will be buying provinces.  Then add on top of that the province trashing, and the game won't last much longer.  Not very infinite.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2017, 04:46:28 pm »
0

Also, King would get crazy with cornucopia things.  Fairgrounds, Menagerie, HOP, Etc.  Also Black Market. You can just buy all kinds of action cards and almost never run out of actions as long as you have a couple cantrips tossed in there. 
Sounds like fun though.  I don't completely hate these ideas.   
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2017, 05:21:34 pm »
0

it also provides an infinite supply of alt VP.

Eh, not so much.  By the time you buy this super expensive card, and play it, people will be buying provinces.  Then add on top of that the province trashing, and the game won't last much longer.  Not very infinite.

It is very infinite if you have Overlord, Crown, Lurker, Mandarin, Raze and Watchtower in the kingdom.

The thing is, though, you're not bound by anything other than how much time you have left. Gaining the VP itself doesn't drain out the supply of VP that's still available to you. That is a very remarkable quality because Victory cards don't have it. Even almost all + cards drain something that is a prerequisite for getting the +, although sometimes the supply is large enough for it to be not very big of a concern (such as in Goons' case).
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 08:30:01 pm »
0

As worded, you could make an argument that the first King you play in a turn will immediately play itself again. You play it, it sets up the effect, you finish playing it, the effect triggers.

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 11:38:47 pm »
0

As worded, you could make an argument that the first King you play in a turn will immediately play itself again. You play it, it sets up the effect, you finish playing it, the effect triggers.

That's why I put an edit that it should say "another card".
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2017, 09:02:13 am »
0

As worded, you could make an argument that the first King you play in a turn will immediately play itself again. You play it, it sets up the effect, you finish playing it, the effect triggers.

That's why I put an edit that it should say "another card".

Oh. Right. Sorry for that...

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2017, 12:07:55 pm »
+1



It is very infinite if you have Overlord, Crown, Lurker, Mandarin, Raze and Watchtower in the kingdom.

 you're not bound by anything other than how much time you have left. .

I agree that you can get a whole lotta points.  But we must have different definitions of infinite.  That would mean it's not bound by anything at all. At least that's what it means to me.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2017, 02:24:47 pm »
0



It is very infinite if you have Overlord, Crown, Lurker, Mandarin, Raze and Watchtower in the kingdom.

 you're not bound by anything other than how much time you have left. .

I agree that you can get a whole lotta points.  But we must have different definitions of infinite.  That would mean it's not bound by anything at all. At least that's what it means to me.

However, it's generally a lot more useful to focus on what people mean when they say things than what words they use.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 02:59:08 pm »
+5



It is very infinite if you have Overlord, Crown, Lurker, Mandarin, Raze and Watchtower in the kingdom.

 you're not bound by anything other than how much time you have left. .

I agree that you can get a whole lotta points.  But we must have different definitions of infinite.  That would mean it's not bound by anything at all. At least that's what it means to me.

However, it's generally a lot more useful to focus on what people mean when they say things than what words they use.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 04:45:23 pm »
0

it also provides an infinite supply of alt VP.

Eh, not so much.  By the time you buy this super expensive card, and play it, people will be buying provinces.  Then add on top of that the province trashing, and the game won't last much longer.  Not very infinite.

It is very infinite if you have Overlord, Crown, Lurker, Mandarin, Raze and Watchtower in the kingdom.

The thing is, though, you're not bound by anything other than how much time you have left. Gaining the VP itself doesn't drain out the supply of VP that's still available to you. That is a very remarkable quality because Victory cards don't have it. Even almost all + cards drain something that is a prerequisite for getting the +, although sometimes the supply is large enough for it to be not very big of a concern (such as in Goons' case).

"Neat and potentially useful card interactions" material.

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 07:17:01 pm »
+4


However, it's generally a lot more useful to focus on what people mean when they say things than what words they use.

Remember this?

I also play the drums, like to watch movies and go skiing in winter.

So what do you do in summer?
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Awaclus

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 05:32:42 am »
0


However, it's generally a lot more useful to focus on what people mean when they say things than what words they use.

Remember this?

I also play the drums, like to watch movies and go skiing in winter.

So what do you do in summer?

That wasn't supposed to be useful. It was supposed to be entertaining.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2017, 10:07:57 am »
+3

Ah.  I guess I didn't understand the complex rules of when I'm allowed to be literal and when I'm supposed to just entertain everyone.  My bad.  My mind must still be all messed up from the shock it received when Awaclus told me not to pic apart people's comments based on their wording.
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Awaclus

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2017, 10:47:41 am »
0

Ah.  I guess I didn't understand the complex rules of when I'm allowed to be literal and when I'm supposed to just entertain everyone.

Well, you clearly didn't. There are times when it's funny to point out that a certain sentence could mean a hilariously different thing than what it's obviously supposed to mean. And then there are times when you're trying to communicate clearly and misunderstanding things on purpose doesn't help anyone.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 03:43:05 pm »
+1

I quite like King, anything that encourages deck diversity is good by me. As worded it should double play treasure too right?
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2017, 04:07:30 pm »
0

I love King. Queen seems outright busted. All lest it helps end the game by killing provinces. Maybe it's effect should be a one-shot. Make it cost the same and a duration, but on your next turn, you trash it, if you do so, every card you play nets you a vp. Even if it's one shot, it still seems pretty crazy.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2017, 04:08:46 pm »
+4

Ah.  I guess I didn't understand the complex rules of when I'm allowed to be literal and when I'm supposed to just entertain everyone.

Well, you clearly didn't. There are times when it's funny to point out that a certain sentence could mean a hilariously different thing than what it's obviously supposed to mean. And then there are times when you're trying to communicate clearly and misunderstanding things on purpose doesn't help anyone.

But Awaclus, you're terrible at identifying which times are which. Your schtick of pedantically "misunderstanding" people's posts is really played out, to the point that I can often predict what you'll post before it happens.
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Awaclus

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 04:41:42 pm »
0

But Awaclus, you're terrible at identifying which times are which. Your schtick of pedantically "misunderstanding" people's posts is really played out, to the point that I can often predict what you'll post before it happens.

Whether or not you like wordplay based jokes is beside the point. The point is that they're jokes, not an attempt to discredit someone's argument.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 04:55:18 pm »
0

I love King. Queen seems outright busted. All lest it helps end the game by killing provinces. Maybe it's effect should be a one-shot. Make it cost the same and a duration, but on your next turn, you trash it, if you do so, every card you play nets you a vp. Even if it's one shot, it still seems pretty crazy.

That could work.  Maybe change the above-line text to "At the start of your Buy phase next turn, trash this."  So as an Action, you would get that turn's buy phase, and the next turn's Action phase.

I quite like King, anything that encourages deck diversity is good by me. As worded it should double play treasure too right?

Sure does!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 04:57:12 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2017, 06:16:30 pm »
+5

But Awaclus, you're terrible at identifying which times are which. Your schtick of pedantically "misunderstanding" people's posts is really played out, to the point that I can often predict what you'll post before it happens.

Whether or not you like wordplay based jokes is beside the point. The point is that they're jokes, not an attempt to discredit someone's argument.

They're not jokes. They're the same joke over and over.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2017, 07:45:05 pm »
0

I actually kinda like the Province trashing on Queen, but I think it would be more interesting on a card that does it as an advantage for you. My main problem with such uses would be the overlap with Salt-the-earth. Anyhow, I think Salt-The-Earth shows that a combination of trashing VP cards and getting VP tokens clearly makes sense. Queen just shouldn't be able to go nuts as much with that. If it was something like "At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, you may trash a Province from the supply, and if you do, +3VP", maybe it would be easier to balance?

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2017, 03:27:51 am »
0

But Awaclus, you're terrible at identifying which times are which. Your schtick of pedantically "misunderstanding" people's posts is really played out, to the point that I can often predict what you'll post before it happens.

Whether or not you like wordplay based jokes is beside the point. The point is that they're jokes, not an attempt to discredit someone's argument.

They're not jokes. They're the same joke over and over.

Still beside the point. If you don't like wordplay, don't laugh at it.

it also provides an infinite supply of alt VP.

Eh, not so much.  By the time you buy this super expensive card, and play it, people will be buying provinces.  Then add on top of that the province trashing, and the game won't last much longer.  Not very infinite.

This is not wordplay. It is purposefully misunderstanding my post in order to start a pointless argument over it. I have never done that. You can go through each individual post I ever wrote and you won't find a single instance of me doing that. Therefore, the implied accusations that I'm being a hypocrite here are completely unfounded.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2017, 12:08:49 pm »
+2

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2017, 03:33:23 pm »
0

don't laugh at it.

No one does

Still beside the point. You can PM me any further complaints you might have about my comedy routine if you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion.
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2017, 03:58:02 pm »
+5

Guys, can we stay on topic?  You know, telling me how shitty my fan cards are?
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2017, 04:03:41 pm »
+1

My bad.  I'm actually really interested in these cards.  I wonder how often it would be worthwhile to go for them in games, and how often they'd be ignorable.  At least with how they are now, I feel like they would almost always be a good idea to buy the first time you hit $9.  So maybe a little too strong?

Do you think you'd buy them over platinum most of the time?
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2017, 04:13:21 pm »
+2

My bad.

Not at all.

Guys, can we stay on topic?  You know, telling me how shitty my fan cards are?

They are shittier than better fan cards, but less shitty than worse fan cards.

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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2017, 04:26:21 pm »
0

Maybe limit King to action cards and Queen to treasure cards?
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Re: King & Queen
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2017, 11:26:03 am »
+3

I've always had a problem with people naming fan cards king or queen or emperor, because it kind of goes against the theme of dominion. You're supposed to be a ruler, so why would you be adding other kings? Maybe it's kind of like those Magic cards that are supposed to be on the same power level as players? These cards do seem to be powerful enough to warrant that, so I don't know. Just wondering what your thought process was for those names.
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