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Author Topic: Splendor  (Read 552 times)

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Kuildeous

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2017, 11:09:59 am »
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So I just played a 3 player against 2 computers.... I won with 15 points, 12 cards, 1 noble, on turn 26. So yours was faster, but not by a huge amount. Still seems weird to spend 17 turns just taking chips... how do you not constantly hit the 10 chip limit?

I find this fascinating, but I feel like maybe this portion of this thread should be separated into a new Splendor thread. I'm keen on talking about it, especially with the upcoming expansion.

I've seen strategies involving saving up for Tier 2 cards only. That makes me a little nervous because it's so easy for another player to block it and/or decide that he wants a different strategy and take your chips anyway. But as long as you have a Plan B to buy something before you are forced to exceed the 10-gem limit, then I think it's a fine option.

I love taking chips up to 9 and 10 though. Even if I can buy something, I'll take more chips as long as nobody else can buy the card I want. I'd rather put the pressure on the other players.
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markusin

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2017, 11:31:05 am »
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It sounds like your play style quite is different from mine and others' I play with. And I don't know which is better.

Well, there are ways to find out. On this online implementation (the cards have different color combinations than the official game so it's a bit confusing, but I think they just superficially swapped entire colors with one another without changing the functionality of the game not sure though), I just won with 15 points, 6 cards and obviously 0 nobles on turn 23 against two CPUs, to give you some idea how good this is. We could also arrange a match there if you want.

So I just played a 3 player against 2 computers.... I won with 15 points, 12 cards, 1 noble, on turn 26. So yours was faster, but not by a huge amount. Still seems weird to spend 17 turns just taking chips... how do you not constantly hit the 10 chip limit?

This comparison of strategies is intriguing. I should try this myself later.

My strategy seems to align closer to Gendo's. I can't imagine how Awaclus's strategy can play out in practice without reserving cards somehow being key to ensure the cards you want are not denied by opponent's.

The difference of a few turns sounds massive for Splendor though.

Edit: yeah, a separate subthread might be good if this keeps up.
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Awaclus

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2017, 12:09:30 pm »
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So I just played a 3 player against 2 computers.... I won with 15 points, 12 cards, 1 noble, on turn 26. So yours was faster, but not by a huge amount. Still seems weird to spend 17 turns just taking chips... how do you not constantly hit the 10 chip limit?

I do constantly hit the 10 chip limit, but that's fine. It's better to return one or two (sometimes even three, but that's usually the point at which I realize I made some mistake earlier) chips than to waste a turn buying a card that I don't need.

My strategy seems to align closer to Gendo's. I can't imagine how Awaclus's strategy can play out in practice without reserving cards somehow being key to ensure the cards you want are not denied by opponent's.

Yeah, reserving cards is key. It's important that you have the cards reserved so that you don't spend turns preparing for something that ends up not being available after all, and you also need the gold chips to buy the expensive stuff. Generally I will reserve a card and the card that it ramps to before I start gaining chips to play the former.
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markusin

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2017, 11:33:19 am »
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Has anyone played the Cities of Splendor expansion yet?

I bought it recently and have been playing some games with my dad using it. The expansion comes with four rules variants, and you choose one of those rules variants to play with at any one time.

The variant my dad and I keep going back to, and the one that I feel comes closest to maintaining the spirit of Splendor, is the Cities variants.

The Cities variant simply replaces the Noble tiles with three City tiles. Instead of getting 15 points, the victory condition is to earn one of the City tiles. The City tiles work like Noble tiles in that you get them at the end of a turn where you meet their condition. The conditions to get a City are things like get 12 points / 4 Green / 4 of a kind besides Green, or 12 points / 6 of a kind, or 16 points and one of each colour. I think there are 14 cities in all (7 two-sided tiles)

At its core, this rules variant is still Splendor, but there is an additional planning consideration now because you can't win without getting a city.

There is another rules variant with strongholds, that has you lock/unlock cards on the board every time you buy a card. But like, you really don't need to buy a whole expansion to play with that variant. Just get 12 tokens that you can divide into distinct groups of 3.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2017, 12:26:37 pm »
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I haven't played Strongholds yet. While it looks like it can add some new strategy to the game, the locking part could get frustrating, and I don't know if it'll make the game any more fun. I want to try it sometime, but I'm also afraid of disappointment.

I really like the Orient and the City. They could even be combined, which could be extra intense.

I like Trading Post, but I wish that the costs could be randomized. As it is, whenever I play with Trading Post, I always go for the reds first.
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markusin

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2017, 12:40:36 pm »
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I haven't played Strongholds yet. While it looks like it can add some new strategy to the game, the locking part could get frustrating, and I don't know if it'll make the game any more fun. I want to try it sometime, but I'm also afraid of disappointment.

I really like the Orient and the City. They could even be combined, which could be extra intense.

I like Trading Post, but I wish that the costs could be randomized. As it is, whenever I play with Trading Post, I always go for the reds first.

Trading posts is the one with the gained abilities right? That one doesn't seem like it has the best balance. Like, how often can you get a Noble tile and 5 green? The Noble tile would need to have the 4 green requirement. And then the ability that makes Gold worth two of one gem is crazy strong.

Strongholds work fine in 2-player, and maybe make Nobles more relevant. I am worried about how messed up it could get in 4-player games.

I like the Orient, but I worry that it's too much for my dad. The rules could also be clearer, like if you keep a Noble tile for getting rid of cards that make you no longer meet its requirement (there are cards that say have you get rid of 2 white cards Asa cost to buy another card).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:42:33 pm by markusin »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2017, 03:35:05 pm »
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So I just played a 3 player against 2 computers.... I won with 15 points, 12 cards, 1 noble, on turn 26. So yours was faster, but not by a huge amount. Still seems weird to spend 17 turns just taking chips... how do you not constantly hit the 10 chip limit?

I do constantly hit the 10 chip limit, but that's fine. It's better to return one or two (sometimes even three, but that's usually the point at which I realize I made some mistake earlier) chips than to waste a turn buying a card that I don't need.

My strategy seems to align closer to Gendo's. I can't imagine how Awaclus's strategy can play out in practice without reserving cards somehow being key to ensure the cards you want are not denied by opponent's.

Yeah, reserving cards is key. It's important that you have the cards reserved so that you don't spend turns preparing for something that ends up not being available after all, and you also need the gold chips to buy the expensive stuff. Generally I will reserve a card and the card that it ramps to before I start gaining chips to play the former.

Oh yeah, this... I tried a couple games against the AI (the official app) trying to play the way you describe... saving up more chips, not buying cheap cards that don't help, etc... wasn't ever able to win. Obviously I'm not doing things right.
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markusin

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2017, 04:31:41 pm »
+1

So I just played a 3 player against 2 computers.... I won with 15 points, 12 cards, 1 noble, on turn 26. So yours was faster, but not by a huge amount. Still seems weird to spend 17 turns just taking chips... how do you not constantly hit the 10 chip limit?

I do constantly hit the 10 chip limit, but that's fine. It's better to return one or two (sometimes even three, but that's usually the point at which I realize I made some mistake earlier) chips than to waste a turn buying a card that I don't need.

My strategy seems to align closer to Gendo's. I can't imagine how Awaclus's strategy can play out in practice without reserving cards somehow being key to ensure the cards you want are not denied by opponent's.

Yeah, reserving cards is key. It's important that you have the cards reserved so that you don't spend turns preparing for something that ends up not being available after all, and you also need the gold chips to buy the expensive stuff. Generally I will reserve a card and the card that it ramps to before I start gaining chips to play the former.

Oh yeah, this... I tried a couple games against the AI (the official app) trying to play the way you describe... saving up more chips, not buying cheap cards that don't help, etc... wasn't ever able to win. Obviously I'm not doing things right.

I'm consistently able to do well with only 9 or 10 cards bought and no nobles (unless somehow a noble's requirement mostly lines up with the cards I wanted anyway), but winning with 6 or 7 cards is still not something I find myself accomplishing.

Still, my performance has improved greatly from the days where I'd buy lots of level 1 cards and go for nobles. So, I have to give credit to Awaclus and others for their insight in this thread.

I do not completely neglect the level 1 cards. I typically get one or two near the start of the game that look like they'll have the most long-term utility, and then I go after the level 2 cards that have a good colour for getting the level 3 cards and hopefully are worth good points as well. Reserving is so powerful because the Gold allows you to buy something worth lots of gems in one colour even once that gem has run out. There is the odd time where I buy a low level card late-game due to it being the cleanest way to ramp up to a good card once gems are low in supply.

Interestingly, 3 player Splendor has the smallest total coloured gem to player of the possible 2-4 player arrangements. I imagine having more noble tiles makes it more likely that one of them is worth going for.

I am willing to play against some people on that online implementation linked to earlier.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 04:32:47 pm by markusin »
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Kuildeous

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 11:36:11 am »
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I like the Orient, but I worry that it's too much for my dad. The rules could also be clearer, like if you keep a Noble tile for getting rid of cards that make you no longer meet its requirement (there are cards that say have you get rid of 2 white cards Asa cost to buy another card).


I feel the rules indicate that you keep the noble, though not explicitly. The rules do not say that you return the noble if you fall below the threshold. There is no stipulation listed about nobles going back to the pool, so I infer from that omission that nobles do not go back.

I feel that if the designed intended for nobles to be put back, there would have been a rule outlining this.
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markusin

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Re: Splendor
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2017, 04:02:02 pm »
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I like the Orient, but I worry that it's too much for my dad. The rules could also be clearer, like if you keep a Noble tile for getting rid of cards that make you no longer meet its requirement (there are cards that say have you get rid of 2 white cards Asa cost to buy another card).


I feel the rules indicate that you keep the noble, though not explicitly. The rules do not say that you return the noble if you fall below the threshold. There is no stipulation listed about nobles going back to the pool, so I infer from that omission that nobles do not go back.

I feel that if the designed intended for nobles to be put back, there would have been a rule outlining this.

I would agree, but the rules were printed on a single 2-sided page. That gave me the feeling that they were looking to have the rules be as concise and minimalistic as possible. How do I know they didn't accidentally omit something, or assume I would give the noble back upon not meeting the condition anymore?

Looking on the BGG rules forum for Cities of Splendor, it appears I am not alone.
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