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Author Topic: AI’s whims  (Read 13855 times)

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beri

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AI’s whims
« on: August 07, 2017, 06:31:17 am »
+1

I play with Guilds, Dark ages and Base and I’ve noticed that the AI is buggily obsessed with the following cards and always buys as many as it can:
- Bandit Camp
- Counterfeit (when this one is in play, I know I’ll win the game, as the AI will play very stupidly.

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesn’t need to spend.

And it seems unable to process the following cards, since it NEVER buys them (while I do):
Artisan, Poacher
Pillage
Taxman, Herald, Advisor

There may be others. Anyway the AI seems quite limited.
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Awaclus

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 06:37:47 am »
+1

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesn’t need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.
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SkyHard

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 03:49:10 pm »
0

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesn’t need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?
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LastFootnote

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 04:09:05 pm »
+7

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesn’t need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?

"Stop" cards are cards that don't draw you more cards. Spoils (along with basically all other Treasures) is a stop card. IF you are building a draw-your-deck engine, then often you don't want to let stop cards pile up too much, or you'll lose the ability to reliably draw your deck. This costs you control, which can be extremely important in Dominion. However, not all decks are draw-your-deck engines. And if you're not trying to draw your whole deck each turn, then saving your Spoils for the next shuffle is usually a better play.

I somehow don't think the (horrible) AI is considering the strategic implications of stop cards when it blindly plays all of its Spoils, though.
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Awaclus

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 04:49:15 pm »
0

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesn’t need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?

"Stop" cards are cards that don't draw you more cards. Spoils (along with basically all other Treasures) is a stop card. IF you are building a draw-your-deck engine, then often you don't want to let stop cards pile up too much, or you'll lose the ability to reliably draw your deck. This costs you control, which can be extremely important in Dominion. However, not all decks are draw-your-deck engines. And if you're not trying to draw your whole deck each turn, then saving your Spoils for the next shuffle is usually a better play.

I somehow don't think the (horrible) AI is considering the strategic implications of stop cards when it blindly plays all of its Spoils, though.

If you have a Bandit Camp in your deck, regardless of what kind of deck it is (I mean, it's probably a draw-your-deck engine anyway but for the sake of argument let's imagine it's not necessarily that), you usually want to get rid of the Spoils so that the Bandit Camp has a higher chance to connect with your terminals.
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LastFootnote

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 04:55:18 pm »
0

"Stop" cards are cards that don't draw you more cards. Spoils (along with basically all other Treasures) is a stop card. IF you are building a draw-your-deck engine, then often you don't want to let stop cards pile up too much, or you'll lose the ability to reliably draw your deck. This costs you control, which can be extremely important in Dominion. However, not all decks are draw-your-deck engines. And if you're not trying to draw your whole deck each turn, then saving your Spoils for the next shuffle is usually a better play.

If you have a Bandit Camp in your deck, regardless of what kind of deck it is (I mean, it's probably a draw-your-deck engine anyway but for the sake of argument let's imagine it's not necessarily that), you usually want to get rid of the Spoils so that the Bandit Camp has a higher chance to connect with your terminals.

That's a good call, though sometimes (rarely) you get a Bandit Camp mostly for the Spoils, so you care more about having that one-shot Gold in the next shuffle.
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JW

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 06:04:20 pm »
0

That's a good call, though sometimes (rarely) you get a Bandit Camp mostly for the Spoils, so you care more about having that one-shot Gold in the next shuffle.

Lord Rattington typically gets Bandit Camp for the Spoils as part of a Bandit Camp-Big Money "strategy", not to build deck-drawing engines or to play multiple terminal actions each turn.

(Bandit Camp-Big Money is not actually a good strategy!)
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beri

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 11:33:53 am »
0

Yes, Rattington just goes totally stupid and counterproductive when Bandit camp and Counterfeit are in play.
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Awaclus

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 12:18:44 pm »
+6

Yes, Rattington just goes totally stupid and counterproductive when Bandit camp and Counterfeit are in play.

However, it goes productive when Feit is in play.
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Splee

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2017, 11:12:01 am »
+1

Bots also compete hard for Sauna, but then don't bother getting a single Avanto. I've also seen them trash multiple colonies or provinces in the same turn with Chapel or Remake - typically when I'm building engine / alt VP and the bot is starting to slow down from the green. It'll also buy Embargo, but the only thing I've actually seen it embargo is the curse pile.

I just played Envoy, picked up Copper x4 and a Tunnel, and the bot *chose* to discard my Tunnel.
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McGarnacle

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 02:20:20 pm »
+9

Also, it seems to systematically spend all the Spoils it has in hand, even those it doesn’t need to spend.

That's usually a good idea, actually. It's good to get rid of those stop cards.

Are you sure? Can you elaborate on that, please?

The AI is actually way ahead of us strategically, it will take some time to figure out the nuances of its tactics.
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Chappy7

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 09:18:16 pm »
0

Lord Rattington doesn't reveal his gold when he plays legionary.  ???

Yet he bought it every time he got $5.  Even though he had no villages.  It hurt to watch
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popsofctown

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2017, 09:42:38 am »
+1

What's wrong with Bandit Camp Big Money?  Surely Bandit Camp is better than Silver, each time you draw it represents 3$ instead of 2, albeit after a delay.  If you're not using dead draw and instead are using one or two powerful nondrawing terminals then Bandit Camp should be in your big money deck. 
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Awaclus

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2017, 10:11:12 am »
0

What's wrong with Bandit Camp Big Money?  Surely Bandit Camp is better than Silver, each time you draw it represents 3$ instead of 2, albeit after a delay.  If you're not using dead draw and instead are using one or two powerful nondrawing terminals then Bandit Camp should be in your big money deck.

Bandit Camp is fine in big money, but the delay is actually very important. If it takes you three turns to cycle through your deck, you get to use a Silver you buy now three turns later, whereas it takes you six or seven turns to use a Spoils from a Bandit Camp you buy now.
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Limetime

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 10:13:17 am »
+2

What's wrong with Bandit Camp Big Money?  Surely Bandit Camp is better than Silver, each time you draw it represents 3$ instead of 2, albeit after a delay.  If you're not using dead draw and instead are using one or two powerful nondrawing terminals then Bandit Camp should be in your big money deck.

Bandit Camp is fine in big money, but the delay is actually very important. If it takes you three turns to cycle through your deck, you get to use a Silver you buy now three turns later, whereas it takes you six or seven turns to use a Spoils from a Bandit Camp you buy now.
Bandit camp has a 54.79% - 36.88% BMU
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JW

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 10:39:16 am »
0


Bandit Camp is fine in big money, but the delay is actually very important. If it takes you three turns to cycle through your deck, you get to use a Silver you buy now three turns later, whereas it takes you six or seven turns to use a Spoils from a Bandit Camp you buy now.
Bandit camp has a 54.79% - 36.88% BMU

But Lord Bottington prefers Bandit Camp to Gold!
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beri

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2017, 03:10:45 am »
0

Do the developers plan on fixing Lord Rattington someday? ’cause it keeps playing retardedly.
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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 02:22:56 pm »
+26

the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.
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KingPeter

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 05:37:55 pm »
+4

Do the developers plan on fixing Lord Rattington someday? ’cause it keeps playing retardedly.
the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.
Apparently not.
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SkyHard

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 01:13:01 am »
+1

Do the developers plan on fixing Lord Rattington someday? ’cause it keeps playing retardedly.
the pledge
Turn 7 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Butcher.
L trashes a Copper.
L gains a Stonemason.

the turn
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.

the prestige
Turn 17 - Lord Rattington
L plays a Stonemason.
L trashes an Estate.
L gains 2 Curses.
Apparently not.

It is planed in the near future: "But most importantly it will allow me to start working on a real AI." (quote from Stef from http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17872.0)
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Seprix

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 09:03:33 am »
+2

Stef: Mr. Player, have you considered the cost of such a machine?

Player: Price is not an object.

Stef: Perhaps not, but have you considered the cost?

Player: I'm not sure I follow.

Stef: Go home. Forget this thing. I can recognize an obsession, no good will come of it.

Player: Why, haven't good come of your obsessions?

Stef: Well, at first. But I followed them too long. I'm their slave... and one day they'll choose to destroy me.

Player: If you understand an obsession, then you know you won't change my mind.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 09:38:52 pm »
+15

I just witnessed Lord Rattington open Potion on a board where the only Potion-cost card was Golem, hit $4P on turn 3, and buy Silver.
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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2017, 04:34:15 pm »
+9

I think I've found a new way to pin the rat.

Code: [Select]
j plays a Vault.
j draws 2 Vaults.
L discards a card and a Copper.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Silver and a Relic.
L discards a Copper.
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GendoIkari

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2017, 10:39:50 am »
+5

I think I've found a new way to pin the rat.

Code: [Select]
j plays a Vault.
j draws 2 Vaults.
L discards a card and a Copper.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Vault and a Border Village.
L discards a card and a Silver.
L draws a card.
j plays a Vault.
j draws a Silver and a Relic.
L discards a Copper.

Lord Rattington always discards when you play a Vault. Always. If you play your 5th Vault in a turn, he'll discard his last card and not draw any replacement. If you discard your 6th Vault in a turn, he'll slow play you while he tries to figure out how to discard when he has no cards in his hand, and you are forced to resign.

Not sure if the issue has been fixed where 1 too many Vault plays locks you out.
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jonts26

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Re: AI’s whims
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 09:20:40 am »
0

Not sure if the issue has been fixed where 1 too many Vault plays locks you out.

Yeah, I think that bug is fixed.
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