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Author Topic: Werewolf  (Read 428 times)

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JW

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Werewolf
« on: August 03, 2017, 11:05:37 am »
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Inspired by http://riograndegames.com/Game/1328-Dominion-Nocturne

Current version:
Werewolf:
Action–Attack, $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card from your hand.
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.
------
While this is in play, when you play a Silver, -$1.

Original version:
Worded as "While this is in play, your Silver produce $1 less."

The idea was that Werewolf should be adverse to Silver, but for this to cause interesting strategic considerations it needs to cost $6 or maybe $5. I wanted it to be an attack card that got stronger in packs, so I borrowed Soldier's attack. That made it want to have +1 Card, +1 Action.  To justify costing $6, it became a Junk Dealer variant on top, which gives it a Mercenary-like feel.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 12:37:06 pm by JW »
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Asper

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 12:01:39 pm »
+1

Quick note, I also made a Werewolf card in the past: "+3$, each other player reveals a Silver or gains a Curse", for 5$. Seemed to be fine. As you can see, it followed the same "attack that doesn't like Silver" theme.

About yours, I think a board with a Peddler that optionally trashes has limited use for Silvers. Likely, they will be used as a stepping stone to get to the card, and after that might get trashed. In fact, I think this Werewolf's own attack is harming the card much more, as it makes you discard junk you could've trashed. Whoever gets it first will probably be able to slow down the other players a lot. As an aside, I would probably go with "when you play a Silver, -1$" so people don't have to ask whether it can produce less than 0$.

Edit: On second thought, it's kind of clever how this card's price makes Silver a great tool to get the card, while clearly it hates Silver once in the deck (also because it's a cantrip, btw). So this card might start with a buildup phase, where Silver is useful, then you get a Werewolf and clean out that Silver, and ultimately you get a thin Peddler engine. The only problem I have is how - much like Warrior - this card itself hinders other players to get it. Sure, players can try to get a deck where discarding down to 3 cards still lets you buy a 6$ - but on quite a few boards this means getting even more Silvers, making the Werewolf you intend to get even worse. Probably getting some sort of Death Cart or Mining Village is the best strategy here, but often you won't have that. It does indeed create quite a few considerations you have to go through, I think...

Q

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 12:37:51 pm »
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I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.
I also think that the card does too much: Peddler plus optinal trasher plus Soldier's attack.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 12:47:35 pm »
+2

I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.

Well there's Altar. And Forge. And Expand. And maybe others I'm forgetting.
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Q

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 12:51:34 pm »
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I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.

Well there's Altar. And Forge. And Expand. And maybe others I'm forgetting.
My mistake. But I still don't think that a cantrip trasher for 6 is the best idea. Unlike those Remodel variants and the "pool-trasher" Forge you often want two cantrip trashers and it might not be worthwhile to get them for 6.
But perhaps I am just too conservative, being not used to Peddler variants that cost more than 5.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 12:54:01 pm by Q »
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Asper

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 02:48:52 pm »
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I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.

Well there's Altar. And Forge. And Expand. And maybe others I'm forgetting.

I think it's noteworthy though, that all of these are (for the case of Forge: also) trash-for-benefit that do more than just thin your deck. They are useful even - or especially - when they trash good cards.

GendoIkari

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 03:18:30 pm »
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I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.

Well there's Altar. And Forge. And Expand. And maybe others I'm forgetting.

Donate.
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Asper

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 03:52:11 pm »
+5

I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.

Well there's Altar. And Forge. And Expand. And maybe others I'm forgetting.

Donate.

You know very well that Donate does not cost more than 5 coins  :P
Nor less.

JW

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 03:42:57 pm »
+1

About yours, I think a board with a Peddler that optionally trashes has limited use for Silvers. Likely, they will be used as a stepping stone to get to the card, and after that might get trashed. In fact, I think this Werewolf's own attack is harming the card much more, as it makes you discard junk you could've trashed. Whoever gets it first will probably be able to slow down the other players a lot. As an aside, I would probably go with "when you play a Silver, -1$" so people don't have to ask whether it can produce less than 0$.

Edit: On second thought, it's kind of clever how this card's price makes Silver a great tool to get the card, while clearly it hates Silver once in the deck (also because it's a cantrip, btw). So this card might start with a buildup phase, where Silver is useful, then you get a Werewolf and clean out that Silver, and ultimately you get a thin Peddler engine. The only problem I have is how - much like Warrior - this card itself hinders other players to get it.

While Werewolf hinders other players from getting to Werewolf, if Werewolf is the only trashing it will take a while to reliably play more than one Werewolf a turn, and the attack of the first Werewolf each turn is quite weak.  I love the flavor of your version where Werewolf is an attack analogous to Young Witch but Silver is the bane card.
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trivialknot

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 05:19:11 pm »
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I think that there is a reason that there aren't any trashers that cost more than 5. You wanna trash early but often hit 6 fairly late.

Well there's Altar. And Forge. And Expand. And maybe others I'm forgetting.
You forgot the most important one, Farmland.
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Asper

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 06:35:44 pm »
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About yours, I think a board with a Peddler that optionally trashes has limited use for Silvers. Likely, they will be used as a stepping stone to get to the card, and after that might get trashed. In fact, I think this Werewolf's own attack is harming the card much more, as it makes you discard junk you could've trashed. Whoever gets it first will probably be able to slow down the other players a lot. As an aside, I would probably go with "when you play a Silver, -1$" so people don't have to ask whether it can produce less than 0$.

Edit: On second thought, it's kind of clever how this card's price makes Silver a great tool to get the card, while clearly it hates Silver once in the deck (also because it's a cantrip, btw). So this card might start with a buildup phase, where Silver is useful, then you get a Werewolf and clean out that Silver, and ultimately you get a thin Peddler engine. The only problem I have is how - much like Warrior - this card itself hinders other players to get it.

While Werewolf hinders other players from getting to Werewolf, if Werewolf is the only trashing it will take a while to reliably play more than one Werewolf a turn, and the attack of the first Werewolf each turn is quite weak.  I love the flavor of your version where Werewolf is an attack analogous to Young Witch but Silver is the bane card.

Thank you. It's certainly true that discarding down to 4 usually doesn't hurt all that much, so perhaps there's a fairly big window where you can still easily get a Werewolf after another player got theirs. Still, even when you have Werewolves, the first player to play them will get the most out of them, as he keeps the other players from trashing their junk (they will likely discard it) and subsequently from building a deck that can reliably play several Werewolves. So the first Werewolf advantages is twofold.
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