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Author Topic: Dominion: Nocturne announced!  (Read 19087 times)

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teamlyle

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2017, 08:53:45 am »
+3

In Smash Up, there are these cards called "madness" which are an action that either lets you draw 2 cards or get rid of it. Madness is worth -1 VP for every 2 you have at the end (and Smash Up is only played to 15 so it's a steep penalty). Maybe hexes will work something like that, where you can get rid of them in some (not free) way but they're a nuisance to have since they hurt you, either at the end or during the game.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2017, 09:49:38 am »
+3

Awaclus is correct. The only difference between +1 VP and each other player takes a curse token is that, assuming the latter is an attack, you can use reactions like Moat, or stop it with Lighthouse. That's such a minor difference, it's just not worth doing. Probably.

I never said it's worth going for. In fact I remarked that it's probably not. And I'm well aware that you can implement Curse Tokens via VP tokens - in fact I did it on one of my own cards. I was just saying that "handing out one of those to your opponent is the exact same as +1VP" is not true, simply because of multiplayer games, where not all opponents might receive a Curse Token at the same time. Again, I'm not saying these are worth going for. But Awaclus, being Awaclus, thinks that multiplayer games are an inferior type of Dominion that needn't be accounted for, which is why he doesn't even bother to put "opponent" in plural. And sure, if you have exactly one opponent, giving them a Curse Token is the same as +1 VP. But if you have more, it isn't. That's all.

Deadlock39

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2017, 09:59:22 am »
0

Handing out a curse token is also not exactly the same as gaining a vp token because of the universal edge case (aided by its recent errata), Possession.

GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2017, 10:03:43 am »
+2

I was just saying that "handing out one of those to your opponent is the exact same as +1VP" is not true

But it IS true. What you mean to say is "a card that hands out one of those to your opponent is not exactly the same as a card that gives you a ". Actually handing one out IS the same, and that's what he was saying. I don't know if he was being overly literal, or genuinely trying to point out the similarity.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2017, 10:22:47 am »
+1

I was just saying that "handing out one of those to your opponent is the exact same as +1VP" is not true

But it IS true. What you mean to say is "a card that hands out one of those to your opponent is not exactly the same as a card that gives you a ". Actually handing one out IS the same, and that's what he was saying. I don't know if he was being overly literal, or genuinely trying to point out the similarity.

You are talking about ONE token. Shouldn't you be talking about ONE player? I'm confused about your point. Maybe you can clarify it? That would be nice.

The question comes down to what "your opponent" means. In 2P games, it means both "all of your opponents" and "one of your opponents". This doesn't work in multiplayer games, though. Handing out a curse token to one opponent does not equal handing one out to each opponent. My point is that Awaclus did not only not bother to specifiy whether he meant "one" or "all" of his opponents, his point is in fact useless for multiplayer games. The reason is obviously that he did not consider them at all, which is why I made that post.

Asper

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2017, 10:32:01 am »
0

Wero's post suddenly disappeared. Nocturne has just been announced and spooky things are happening already  ;)

Example time nonetheless: Alice, Bob and Clark play.
  • Alice hands out a Curse token to Bob. Alice and Clark are both one VP ahead of Bob.
  • Alice gets +1VP. Alice is 1 VP ahead with Bob and Clark sharing second place.

werothegreat

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2017, 10:43:42 am »
+1

Wero's post suddenly disappeared.

I decided you already understood the point I was trying to make after rereading your post.
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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2017, 10:53:04 am »
0

Wero's post suddenly disappeared.

I decided you already understood the point I was trying to make after rereading your post.

Yes, absolutely. If everybody else takes a Curse token, I could just as well take a VP token.

teamlyle

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2017, 11:01:17 am »
+1

In the Prosperity rulebook, it says that there is no limit to the number of VP tokens one can take, and to just use substitutes if they run out. I'd have a hard time believing that the rule would be different for Curse tokens.
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"In your face." -Jacob
"Ooh. You just got burned." -Jack
"First place again, disciple!" -Ruikai
"Ugh... 399 cursors. Time to hack!" -Ben
"You gotta do your homework, dude!" -Yul
"Come on man, let the plat play." -The Plat
"It's nice to have a good 'in your face' every once in a while." -Jacob
"OBJECTION!!! The witness is being SUPER gross." -Phoenix Wright
"Milord, Inquisitor Fey sentences that burger to my stomach!" -Maya Fey
"Dude, I only had 4 cups of coffee this morning so I'm gonna crash." -Swi
"Okay, okay. My team name is: Team Lyle: the Advancing Armadillo." -Lyle
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"Well, I prefer loyal people. I donít want anyone to be a La-Ya except for me." -La-Ya
"I don't play Monkey vs. Monkey. I'm too busy in pacifist mode, watching my buildings survive and thrive!" -Joshua
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2017, 11:02:43 am »
+17

My heartfelt advice: don't let Awaclus provoke you into being the one who makes a thread suck. I have phrased that so you can blame Awaclus if you want, isn't that friendly of me. But really.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2017, 11:03:05 am »
0

I was just saying that "handing out one of those to your opponent is the exact same as +1VP" is not true

But it IS true. What you mean to say is "a card that hands out one of those to your opponent is not exactly the same as a card that gives you a ". Actually handing one out IS the same, and that's what he was saying. I don't know if he was being overly literal, or genuinely trying to point out the similarity.

You are talking about ONE token. Shouldn't you be talking about ONE player? I'm confused about your point. Maybe you can clarify it? That would be nice.

The question comes down to what "your opponent" means. In 2P games, it means both "all of your opponents" and "one of your opponents". This doesn't work in multiplayer games, though. Handing out a curse token to one opponent does not equal handing one out to each opponent. My point is that Awaclus did not only not bother to specifiy whether he meant "one" or "all" of his opponents, his point is in fact useless for multiplayer games. The reason is obviously that he did not consider them at all, which is why I made that post.

You're right, I assumed an "s" that wasn't there on "your opponent". I was thinking "handing a curse token to your opponents is the same as taking a ." But I'm pretty sure that's what Akawalus was meaning as well. He was talking about the act of handing curse tokens to opponents, while you were talking about an attack card that has the potential to hand curse tokens to opponents. The former is identical to tokens, the latter could be different due to attack protections.

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BlackHole

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2017, 11:14:15 am »
+2

Ok, so let's talk about what really matters ;).

What happend to our events and landmarks?! :'(
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J Reggie

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2017, 11:18:58 am »
+1

Ok, so let's talk about what really matters ;).

What happend to our events and landmarks?! :'(

Well, Donald had said there's not much more he can do with events, and landmarks are very limited without VP tokens. Plus, between empires and adventures, we have plenty of each.

I'm really excited about these heirlooms! Imagine museum or fairgrounds with both heirlooms and shelters!

trivialknot

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2017, 11:51:04 am »
+1

Ok, so let's talk about what really matters ;).

What happend to our events and landmarks?! :'(
We don't know that there won't be new events and landmarks.

Personally I'd really like to see more split piles.
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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2017, 12:00:13 pm »
+2

theory: Nights will be a new type of single-type card


(seriously, theory, what do you think?)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 12:02:53 pm by Cuzz »
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jsh357

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2017, 01:42:28 pm »
+4

In case you want even more chatter about the New expansion and feel like this thread alone didn't cut it, we have a room in our discord server specifically to discuss Nocturne!

Join today! (This is your periodical discord invitation spam)
https://discord.gg/9hPXmu
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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2017, 02:58:43 pm »
0

My heartfelt advice: don't let Awaclus provoke you into being the one who makes a thread suck. I have phrased that so you can blame Awaclus if you want, isn't that friendly of me. But really.

I'll see myself out.

Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2017, 03:33:22 pm »
0

I agree that curse tokens need to be more interesting than -1 vp.  For example:  "at the end of the game, before taking score, remove one Victory card from your deck.  If you do not, -1 VP"

Slightly weaker than a Curse because you could try to time it so that you gobble up several Estates near the end.  But then again, there aren't enough estates, unless the token is somewhat difficult to come by.

Anyway, my idea is probably bad.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2017, 03:54:19 pm »
+1

In case you want even more chatter about the New expansion and feel like this thread alone didn't cut it, we have a room in our discord server specifically to discuss Nocturne!

Join today! (This is your periodical discord invitation spam)
https://discord.gg/9hPXmu

Where's the discord channel where we squabble over silly semantics about whether or not 2 features are literally the same even though we all agree that they're close enough that it's a bad design space?
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SuperHans

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2017, 04:09:46 pm »
0

On one hand, I am excited about the release of a new expansion. On the other hand, the more than two month wait is going to kill me. I am too hyped.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #95 on: August 04, 2017, 04:23:05 pm »
+2

On one hand, I am excited about the release of a new expansion. On the other hand, the more than two month wait is going to kill me. I am too hyped.

Oh man, you have no idea. Historically, the time between the announcement of an expansion and its actual release has been much longer.

EDIT: OK, I mean you actually do have an idea, having been registered at f.DS for 5 years. But uh, yeah. Usually it's so much longer.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 05:13:23 pm by LastFootnote »
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jsh357

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #96 on: August 04, 2017, 04:23:33 pm »
0

In case you want even more chatter about the New expansion and feel like this thread alone didn't cut it, we have a room in our discord server specifically to discuss Nocturne!

Join today! (This is your periodical discord invitation spam)
https://discord.gg/9hPXmu

Where's the discord channel where we squabble over silly semantics about whether or not 2 features are literally the same even though we all agree that they're close enough that it's a bad design space?

4chan org /pol/
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trivialknot

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #97 on: August 04, 2017, 04:34:24 pm »
0

VP tokens require extra components to be included in the box.  And if you're going to include extra tokens, -1 VP tokens would just make sense if the new cards used VP as a drawback rather than a bonus.

But yeah, I don't see this happening.  Maybe a self-hexing card though.
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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #98 on: August 04, 2017, 04:37:44 pm »
0

On one hand, I am excited about the release of a new expansion. On the other hand, the more than two month wait is going to kill me. I am too hyped.

Oh man, you have no idea. Historically, the time between the announcement of an expansion and its actual release has been much longer.

Yeah, when I first saw this I thought it would come out around Christmas time.

Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Nocturne announced!
« Reply #99 on: August 04, 2017, 07:36:36 pm »
0

I could also see a system where -1 VP tokens can be "un-bought" for $3 or whatever.  I don't like the idea of Moatable Monuments for reasons previously discussed, but there are probably a hundred possible ways you could make them interesting.  I'm sure Donald made an interesting choice.
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