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Author Topic: BM26 Cryptography Mafia (1 spot left!)  (Read 1410 times)

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SpaceAnemone

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2017, 04:51:09 pm »

/tag with a strong interest in playing if it doesn't open for a while...
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Dylan32

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2017, 05:48:44 pm »

/tag with a strong interest in playing if it doesn't open for a while...

I 2nd this.
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Awaclus

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2017, 05:53:44 pm »

For Awaclus:

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schadd

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2017, 05:56:09 pm »

For Awaclus:

0x78 0x6e 0x49 0x73 0x47 0x46 0x1b 0x49 0xbb 0x95 0xd5 0x91 0x09 0x42 0xe5 0x2f 0x66 0x6a 0x8c 0xfc 0x95 0x21 0xd4 0xef 0xb3 0x8b 0x41 0x7d 0xaf 0x57 0x0f 0x4d 0x79 0x1c 0x58 0x84 0xd9 0x87 0x3b 0x89 0x9e 0xd1 0x1b 0xfd 0x61 0xb1 0xa3 0x7e 0x2c 0x96 0x79 0x12 0x0e 0x69 0x6f 0x0d 0x07 0xbe 0x6a 0x73 0x00 0xcd 0x42 0xa9 0xe4 0x93 0x06 0x97 0x7f 0x66 0xc2 0x94 0xc7 0x18 0x1c 0x8f 0x71 0xb8 0xf0 0xca 0x68 0x1a 0xb0 0xed 0x45 0x92 0x9b 0xe2 0x5f 0x11 0xdc 0x24 0x99 0x11 0x02 0xb9 0x44 0xc2 0x58 0x72 0xda 0x13 0x92 0xe4 0x18 0x3a 0x23 0x0f 0x51 0x4e 0x56 0xc3 0xdc 0x27 0x38 0xab 0x67 0xcd 0x06 0x29 0x1c 0xc7 0xf4 0xdc 0xf7 0x86 0x92 0xd5

0x08 0x2f 0x09 0x8f 0x3c 0x35 0x95 0xc0 0xcf 0xc9 0xe1 0x1a 0xce 0x16 0x67 0xd1 0x81 0xbb 0xc0 0x82 0x65 0xc4 0xa1 0x31 0x8c 0xe5 0xc6 0x06 0x3f 0xbd 0x19 0x88 0x61 0x12 0xe8 0x5f 0x50 0x2c 0x1b 0xca 0xf6 0x7a 0xbd 0x4a 0x7b 0xf1 0xc6 0x17 0x67 0xcc 0xb2 0x9f 0xfc 0x81 0x0a 0xcf 0xf1 0xdd 0x5d 0x7d 0x41 0xb9 0x9f 0x1d 0xac 0x00 0x1c 0x9e 0xd0 0xb0 0x4b 0x57 0xbe 0x5b 0xce 0xe0 0x7a 0xce 0xf5 0xde 0x38 0x6a 0x75 0x40 0xc5 0x07 0x69 0x5d 0x0c 0x82 0x45 0xd5 0xe9 0xf3 0x09 0xf9 0xd5 0x24 0xe6 0x47 0x83 0xe7 0xdc 0x24 0xd8 0x56 0x13 0xcd 0x45 0x5a 0xc4 0xc3 0xc1 0xf8 0x71 0x30 0x97 0x90 0xa2 0x84 0x97 0xe3 0x42 0xf1 0x14 0xa3 0x2d 0x4f
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2017, 08:07:25 pm »

For Awaclus:

0x78 0x6e 0x49 0x73 0x47 0x46 0x1b 0x49 0xbb 0x95 0xd5 0x91 0x09 0x42 0xe5 0x2f 0x66 0x6a 0x8c 0xfc 0x95 0x21 0xd4 0xef 0xb3 0x8b 0x41 0x7d 0xaf 0x57 0x0f 0x4d 0x79 0x1c 0x58 0x84 0xd9 0x87 0x3b 0x89 0x9e 0xd1 0x1b 0xfd 0x61 0xb1 0xa3 0x7e 0x2c 0x96 0x79 0x12 0x0e 0x69 0x6f 0x0d 0x07 0xbe 0x6a 0x73 0x00 0xcd 0x42 0xa9 0xe4 0x93 0x06 0x97 0x7f 0x66 0xc2 0x94 0xc7 0x18 0x1c 0x8f 0x71 0xb8 0xf0 0xca 0x68 0x1a 0xb0 0xed 0x45 0x92 0x9b 0xe2 0x5f 0x11 0xdc 0x24 0x99 0x11 0x02 0xb9 0x44 0xc2 0x58 0x72 0xda 0x13 0x92 0xe4 0x18 0x3a 0x23 0x0f 0x51 0x4e 0x56 0xc3 0xdc 0x27 0x38 0xab 0x67 0xcd 0x06 0x29 0x1c 0xc7 0xf4 0xdc 0xf7 0x86 0x92 0xd5

0x08 0x2f 0x09 0x8f 0x3c 0x35 0x95 0xc0 0xcf 0xc9 0xe1 0x1a 0xce 0x16 0x67 0xd1 0x81 0xbb 0xc0 0x82 0x65 0xc4 0xa1 0x31 0x8c 0xe5 0xc6 0x06 0x3f 0xbd 0x19 0x88 0x61 0x12 0xe8 0x5f 0x50 0x2c 0x1b 0xca 0xf6 0x7a 0xbd 0x4a 0x7b 0xf1 0xc6 0x17 0x67 0xcc 0xb2 0x9f 0xfc 0x81 0x0a 0xcf 0xf1 0xdd 0x5d 0x7d 0x41 0xb9 0x9f 0x1d 0xac 0x00 0x1c 0x9e 0xd0 0xb0 0x4b 0x57 0xbe 0x5b 0xce 0xe0 0x7a 0xce 0xf5 0xde 0x38 0x6a 0x75 0x40 0xc5 0x07 0x69 0x5d 0x0c 0x82 0x45 0xd5 0xe9 0xf3 0x09 0xf9 0xd5 0x24 0xe6 0x47 0x83 0xe7 0xdc 0x24 0xd8 0x56 0x13 0xcd 0x45 0x5a 0xc4 0xc3 0xc1 0xf8 0x71 0x30 0x97 0x90 0xa2 0x84 0x97 0xe3 0x42 0xf1 0x14 0xa3 0x2d 0x4f

0x0c 0xb5 0x46 0x9c 0x0a 0x56 0x0a 0x7a 0xae 0x84 0x0d 0x90 0x24 0x29 0x30 0x5e 0x22 0x2f 0x5e 0x3d 0x34 0x95 0xe0 0x9c 0x57 0x0a 0x83 0x6e 0x9f 0xba 0x91 0xcf 0xa8 0x9f 0x9e 0x4e 0x74 0x65 0xfc 0xab 0xaf 0xc2 0x53 0x84 0xf0 0x9b 0x60 0xa4 0xf9 0x36 0x00 0x6f 0x87 0x6b 0xb3 0x44 0xf2 0x51 0x65 0x37 0x83 0x60 0x83 0xbd 0xbd 0x64 0x7c 0x8f 0x15 0x41 0xd3 0xd2 0xca 0x09 0x30 0x92 0xe2 0xb8 0x5e 0x02 0x55 0xbb 0x19 0x1d 0x94 0xf1 0x6d 0xa2 0x7e 0xdc 0x2a 0x70 0xff 0xba 0x36 0xc4 0x96 0xff 0x69 0x5a 0x6f 0x3e 0x25 0x31 0x36 0x32 0xe2 0x23 0x03 0x72 0x01 0xb3 0x7c 0x78 0xf5 0xda 0x0e 0xaa 0x14 0x0e 0xd4 0x44 0xb6 0x97 0xc3 0x3b 0x5b 0xfc
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2017, 08:16:31 pm »

At least one message is needed to send the kill. So that leaves one message for coordinating said kill and everything else...
Like you said day talk is a plus but much at all is going to be a tell, imho.

I am anxious to see how this plays out.

I was going to point out that you don't have to say publicly who you're communicating with (you can just post an encrypted message that everyone has to decrypt, but only one player will be able to successfully decrypt it), but I think you run into trouble then if everyone posts publicly whether or not they were able to decrypt your message.  Your scum buddy could deny it as well to stay hidden, but then you look very suspicious for having a communication with someone who won't admit that you're communicating with them.

This has the potential to be really cool, but I think the roles really need to be very cleverly designed to maximize the meaningfulness of private communication and signatures.  I think the much bigger issue is that it will be very tedious and people will probably lose interest quickly because of that (but I'd love to be proven wrong).

Also, if there are powerful PR's, you may not need to require that town post at night.  It might be interesting to see what happens if no one is required to post; VT's might want to post so that they look like PR's and draw the NK's, or scum might want to deliberately not kill so that they look like VT's (though that only works if other PR's are posting).
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liopoil

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2017, 08:18:45 pm »

It would be nice if you could at least reveal what the win conditions are and how many people have each win condition... too many games have gone wrong for me because of uncertainty about that
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2017, 09:27:43 pm »

It would be nice if you could at least reveal what the win conditions are and how many people have each win condition... too many games have gone wrong for me because of uncertainty about that

Yes, that is something that I'm still deciding on. I'll definitely post them when I have them ready. There is also a possibility of this turning into a 12 person game if there is enough interest.
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faust

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2017, 02:13:45 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

liopoil

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2017, 02:37:34 am »

I think town has a lot to gain by sending messages to each other, so I'm not sure that would be worth it. Scum could win without communicating with each other
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CheesyJelly

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2017, 04:10:29 am »

/tag

I have been thinking that somebody needs to try the cryptography stuff we've been talking about.  Fascinated to see how this plays out!  I might join at a later date.
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Awaclus

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2017, 05:22:43 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

I assume gkrieg thought of this and gave town a reason to want to communicate as well.
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pingpongsam

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2017, 08:45:18 am »

I'm wondering how it would be to make a third site that scrapes the game thread (would require login credentials since the game is not public) and then searches known keys and renders plain text for all matching results while keeping the threaded format. It's a ton of work for one game but maubevworthwhile for more. Does simple machines have a plugin to do this internally? Biggest issue I am seeing with this game is the tedious, non persistent means of decryption.

If anything I'd recommend a smaller player count because of this.
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chairs

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2017, 08:46:31 am »

so very /in.

ba2e2ac914ffae85168f7858e5c0ea4c4dbe98e25b2151a4934cd3a6415c6908205892c3f1bad849
dfac8b9ae6dea8a1602c0b18189179331b6b5919516bcd93b08c70015c3b023dcd02db4187f1763e
d7c8f865424b2dceaf9ffec23692ce55d697fbfda4fcb2787896b271c71742ca1232e548ee5c6936
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faust

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2017, 09:26:37 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

I assume gkrieg thought of this and gave town a reason to want to communicate as well.
I suppose. It's just hard for me to see what incentive would be big enough.

On another note, you probably want to prohibit players from sharing their private keys. Otherwise I can always prove that I didn't communicate with another team member, which will probably break things.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

chairs

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2017, 09:31:05 am »

I thought communicating via encryption was mandatory, so you didn't have the option to -not encrypt- your post.

faust

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2017, 09:33:21 am »

I thought communicating via encryption was mandatory, so you didn't have the option to -not encrypt- your post.

You only need to encrypt messages that you only want certain players to read.  So basically anything that you would have normally put in a QT, is now in the main thread.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2017, 09:33:59 am »

And anyway you could always send a message encrypted to all other players one after another, so that's not really something you can enforce.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2017, 09:59:13 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

That is why I'm forcing people to check in a couple times using different words with me at night.
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2017, 10:00:14 am »

The game will mainly be unencrypted, with only secret communications being encrypted.
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2017, 10:01:10 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

I assume gkrieg thought of this and gave town a reason to want to communicate as well.
I suppose. It's just hard for me to see what incentive would be big enough.

On another note, you probably want to prohibit players from sharing their private keys. Otherwise I can always prove that I didn't communicate with another team member, which will probably break things.

This is a very good point (and good practice for encryption etiquette)
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Calamitas

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2017, 10:05:08 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

I assume gkrieg thought of this and gave town a reason to want to communicate as well.
I suppose. It's just hard for me to see what incentive would be big enough.

On another note, you probably want to prohibit players from sharing their private keys. Otherwise I can always prove that I didn't communicate with another team member, which will probably break things.

This is a very good point (and good practice for encryption etiquette)
One could just decrypt the role pms if sharing would be allowed :-D
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2017, 10:06:30 am »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

I assume gkrieg thought of this and gave town a reason to want to communicate as well.
I suppose. It's just hard for me to see what incentive would be big enough.

On another note, you probably want to prohibit players from sharing their private keys. Otherwise I can always prove that I didn't communicate with another team member, which will probably break things.

This is a very good point (and good practice for encryption etiquette)
One could just decrypt the role pms if sharing would be allowed :-D

True. I had assumed that no one would because you would never do it IRL!
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2017, 01:48:32 pm »

I feel like it would be a breaking strategy if town decided to disallow all encrypted posts, lynching anyone that uses encryption. That blocks any conversation between scum.

So thinking more about this, scum just knowing who their partner is and not communicating at all, with a completely vanilla 2 vs. 7 game should be balanced right?

It would be significantly less fun, and I really don't think that town would go along with it (who wouldn't want to use their shiny PRs!), but it should still be technically balanced. 

The other thing to do is make the vanilla setup slightly less town-favored, so that they don't want to default to that.  Either way, everyone will be required to check in at night, which means that at least every person needs to post one encrypted message during the night.
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gkrieg13

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Re: BM26 Cryptography Mafia
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2017, 01:49:10 pm »

Another interesting quirk of this setup is that people who post encrypted messages will be posting something that even the mod can't read!
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