Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues  (Read 807 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

majiponi

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
  • Respect: +260
    • View Profile
Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« on: July 18, 2017, 09:00:27 pm »
+6

HobbyJapan Game Festival was held on 15 and 16 July 2017.  Many players joined Japanese Dominion Tournament in it.  Mr. Moolong - you know as yudai214 - won in it.  He is going to attend World Championship 2017.

This competition raised some issues.

1.  One player was disqualified due to a cheat on shuffling swapping his hand for his deck.
2.  Four players drew intentionally. (This was a Swiss-system tournament. They all have the same championship points.)

1. is a kind of problem in manners, skills, and rules.  This tournament had few rules dealing with a improper shuffling.  It was up to each player's skills and manners.

2. is a problem in a rule.  Judges didn't disqualify those four players, but added another rule not to propose deals in games.  Is intentional draw allowed in Dominion (up to each championship), or disallowed?


EDIT: The sponsor explained those two matters.  It was not due to a cheating shuffling but a swapping hand why the player was disqualified.

https://hobbyjapan.co.jp/hobbyjapan_game_festival/ruling_hamefestival2017.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:23:20 am by majiponi »
Logged

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1223
  • Respect: +1410
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 09:47:38 pm »
+1

It sounds like it's a problem in the tournament design. You assume that the players will play to win the game in front of them, and not collude with the other players to beat the system, and I did a quick search and it seems like this is not unheard of in, for example, Magic tournaments (such that they actually have a rule prohibiting collusion with other players to improve your joint chances). Unfortunately, I don't know if there's a great way to fix it.
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1513
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1416
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 09:53:28 pm »
+2

Do not play Swiss system when you're not playing 2-player games. I assumed that it is a requirement.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

DG

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3898
  • Respect: +2419
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 10:05:01 pm »
+1

Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9992
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +10110
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 06:02:58 am »
0

Intentional draws are prohibited in Magic now?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1223
  • Respect: +1410
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 07:01:05 pm »
0

Intentional draws are prohibited in Magic now?
My reading, from one result of a very quick Google search, is that while it is legitimate to declare a game a draw, it is not allowed to do so as part of an agreement with your opponent so that both of you can advance.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9992
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +10110
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 04:12:24 am »
+1

Intentional draws are prohibited in Magic now?
My reading, from one result of a very quick Google search, is that while it is legitimate to declare a game a draw, it is not allowed to do so as part of an agreement with your opponent so that both of you can advance.

I just checked the most recent tournament rules from Wizards' site and it doesn't say you're not allowed to ID to ensure that you advance, it just prohibits bribery.

Here's the relevant part for the record:
Quote
If a game or match is not completed, players may concede or mutually agree to a draw in that game or match. A
match is considered complete once the result slip is filled out or, if match slips are not being used, a player leaves
the table after game play is finished. Until that point, either player may concede to or draw with the other, though
if the conceding player won a game in the match, the match must be reported as 2-1. Intentional draws are always
reported as 0-0-3.

Players may not agree to a concession or draw in exchange for any reward or incentive. Doing so will be
considered Bribery (see section 5.2).

If a player refuses to play, it is assumed that he or she has conceded the match.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

dedicateddan

  • 2017 Dominion Online Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • Shuffle iT Username: dan brooks
  • Respect: +754
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 05:43:09 am »
0

Intentional draws are prohibited in Magic now?

Intentional draws are allowed and very common in the last 1-2 rounds
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6464
  • Respect: +7114
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 10:32:56 am »
0

Intentional draws are prohibited in Magic now?
My reading, from one result of a very quick Google search, is that while it is legitimate to declare a game a draw, it is not allowed to do so as part of an agreement with your opponent so that both of you can advance.

I just checked the most recent tournament rules from Wizards' site and it doesn't say you're not allowed to ID to ensure that you advance, it just prohibits bribery.

Here's the relevant part for the record:
Quote
If a game or match is not completed, players may concede or mutually agree to a draw in that game or match. A
match is considered complete once the result slip is filled out or, if match slips are not being used, a player leaves
the table after game play is finished. Until that point, either player may concede to or draw with the other, though
if the conceding player won a game in the match, the match must be reported as 2-1. Intentional draws are always
reported as 0-0-3.

Players may not agree to a concession or draw in exchange for any reward or incentive. Doing so will be
considered Bribery (see section 5.2).

If a player refuses to play, it is assumed that he or she has conceded the match.

A better rules quote to support your point:

Quote
27. Intentional Draw - The DCI Universal Tournament Rules
Players may mutually agree to accept an intentional draw at any time before the match results are submitted. This agreement should not be regarded as a violation of section 41.(41: Cheating - e.g. Collusion to alter the results of a game or match)
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

ConMan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1223
  • Respect: +1410
    • View Profile
Re: Japanese Tournament raised a few issues
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 07:18:40 pm »
0

A better rules quote to support your point:

Quote
27. Intentional Draw - The DCI Universal Tournament Rules
Players may mutually agree to accept an intentional draw at any time before the match results are submitted. This agreement should not be regarded as a violation of section 41.(41: Cheating - e.g. Collusion to alter the results of a game or match)
Ah. I must have misinterpreted that section on Collusion then.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.066 seconds with 20 queries.