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Author Topic: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]  (Read 3025 times)

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jonts26

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #150 on: August 29, 2017, 01:45:36 pm »
0

Is he really that bad?  Subtract Bran, and his plan works pretty well.  But in the end he got outplayed by a guy who somehow became a walking WeirwoodPedia.  (Well not the walking part.)  No one could have foreseen that.

So much for his speech about anticipating every possibility. Though it should have been a hint that that scene was interrupted by bran's arrival.
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Eevee

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #151 on: August 29, 2017, 01:52:49 pm »
+1

I feel the show kind of screwed up making Bran (and Arya to an extent) too powerful. All the political scheming (which was always the thing I enjoyed the most) just feels very pointless now that they have human wikipedia Bran hanging around no one is even bothering to consult. (Of course Sam walks in and all of a sudden Bran is so very helpful going back and checking things, but that's a whole another can of worms).


There are cool things like flying ice dragons bringing down the wall, but I'm way past the point of suspending disbelief because the writing's been so bad ever since they surpassed the books. The show is basically your standard Hollywood action flick at this point. GRRM would probably be disappointed it has come to this, if he wasn't raking in millions upon millions as a result.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #152 on: August 29, 2017, 02:42:35 pm »
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Hmm.. it felt a lot like Littlefinger was scheming because that was what his character does, and they couldn't just have him around without him causing a lot of trouble.  It ended up feeling kind of forced.
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Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #153 on: August 29, 2017, 02:46:22 pm »
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Littlefinger's show!plot started going wrong when they decided to have him give Sansa to the Boltons, a decision that made absolutely no sense, except from the showrunners' perspective of wanting Sansa to suffer even more horror than she had already suffered.
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Eevee

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #154 on: August 29, 2017, 03:51:39 pm »
+1

Littlefinger's show!plot started going wrong when they decided to have him give Sansa to the Boltons, a decision that made absolutely no sense, except from the showrunners' perspective of wanting Sansa to suffer even more horror than she had already suffered.
I remember being a blue-eyed, hopeful young man on the edge of my seat waiting to find out what LF's master plan was with that.

Such a sweet summer child I was.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #155 on: August 29, 2017, 05:21:37 pm »
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I for one liked the Littlefinger part a lot.

I don't think it makes him too stupid, though I concede the problem that there is probably no smart overarching plan that explains all of his prior decisions.

silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #156 on: August 29, 2017, 05:30:24 pm »
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The weakest part on reflection was actually the Theon bit I think. Otherwise I'd say the finale was quite good. Lots of built-up tension that lead to nothing, but that's okay.

Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #157 on: August 29, 2017, 05:38:50 pm »
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Showrunners continue to mistakenly think people care about Theon. I just don't get it. So much Theon, but fan favorite Lyanna Mormont got one scene this season. Melisandre got two scenes. Brienne did like one thing. But Theon, Theon, Theon.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #158 on: August 29, 2017, 06:47:09 pm »
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I care about theon. Though not as much as about Melisandre.

The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #159 on: August 29, 2017, 06:49:32 pm »
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I was sad to see Littlefinger go. Don't really mind the way he did, but wonder about the timing and I think the show will miss him, or at least the plots that he moved forward early on.

He, as a character, is one of the main driving forces of plot in the show. Think of everything that happened because of him:

1. Jon Arryn dies (leaving void Ned fills)
2. Sends letter implying threat from Lannister
3. Gets Tyrion arrested
4. Points Ned in direction of Stannis being the rightful ruler and Joffrey being illegitimate.
4a. Although I don't think it is ever stated, he must have been involved in King Robert's death as well?
5. Betrays Ned Stark
6. Wins over the Tyrells after Renly's death
7. Plots and succeeds to have Joffrey killed
8. Takes Sansa away from King's Landing
9. Kills Lysa Arryn
10. Marries Sansa to the Boltons In the book he trained Jeyne Poole in one of his brothels
11. Leads the forces of the Arryn to the Battle of the Bastards

And then he kinda stopped doing anything this season. That was disappointing.

I had thought he was part of the Red Wedding plot as well, but looks like that was just Tywin, the Freys and the Boltons in cahoots there.

Regardless, without Littlefinger there isn't really a Game of Thrones. Robert would probably still be alive. Bran wouldn't have seen Jaime and Cersi and would not have fallen. Ned would still be alive in Winterfell. Stannis would still be at Dragonstone. The Lannisters would be probably content to just play second fiddle to the Baratheons. There would still be Daenerys in Essos, but her claim against a united Westeros wouldn't stand as much of a chance. And there would still be the White Walkers, but again, a united Westeros would hopefully be able to take care of them.
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #160 on: August 29, 2017, 06:51:11 pm »
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I care about theon. Though not as much as about Melisandre.
I feel as if Theon is a stand in for about 4 characters from the books. He is filling multiple roles, including his own, which I think waters down his involvement and makes him more important than his own self actually deserves to be.
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Calamitas

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #161 on: August 29, 2017, 10:53:47 pm »
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Is he really that bad?  Subtract Bran, and his plan works pretty well.  But in the end he got outplayed by a guy who somehow became a walking WeirwoodPedia.  (Well not the walking part.)  No one could have foreseen that.
Yes!

The ned thing was in a throne room with a bunch of visitors, also Cersei could have talked at any point. Vy the way, that event is 6 years ago.

The lysa murder sansa knew about, lied to royce about it and ignored it. Again, 4 years ago.

Littlefinger should have calculated those two things being known and should have prepared plausible excuses/planned accordingly.

Also, it wasn't too far fetched that Sansa/Arya might talk about the issue and it's quite terrible to have no possible reaction in that eventuality.


The Jon Arryn murder accusal was obviously undefendable except for outright denial (I mean, there is no proof at all) but one has to blame LF for not adjusting to an omniscient person being around. LF clearly knew that ("chaos is a ladder") and should have prepared to either leave winterfell asap or to rid himself of bran. But he decided to just ignore it which is absolutely stupid


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theory

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #162 on: August 30, 2017, 01:43:10 am »
+1

Is he really that bad?  Subtract Bran, and his plan works pretty well.  But in the end he got outplayed by a guy who somehow became a walking WeirwoodPedia.  (Well not the walking part.)  No one could have foreseen that.
Yes!

The ned thing was in a throne room with a bunch of visitors, also Cersei could have talked at any point. Vy the way, that event is 6 years ago.

The lysa murder sansa knew about, lied to royce about it and ignored it. Again, 4 years ago.

Littlefinger should have calculated those two things being known and should have prepared plausible excuses/planned accordingly.

Also, it wasn't too far fetched that Sansa/Arya might talk about the issue and it's quite terrible to have no possible reaction in that eventuality.


The Jon Arryn murder accusal was obviously undefendable except for outright denial (I mean, there is no proof at all) but one has to blame LF for not adjusting to an omniscient person being around. LF clearly knew that ("chaos is a ladder") and should have prepared to either leave winterfell asap or to rid himself of bran. But he decided to just ignore it which is absolutely stupid
Of the things LF knew that the Starks knew, nothing could bring him down.  Sansa doesn't know the Lysa/Ned story.  Arya knows the Tywin-LF connection, but LF doesn't know that.  LF's biggest risk was Sansa/Arya, which is why the show spent all that time showing Sansa/Arya's deception of LF.  (Which most people said was irrational from the characters, even though it was patently obvious that the characters were deceiving LF.)  But that wouldn't have happened if they didn't have access to WeirwoodPedia.  LF was scheming the whole season, it's just that he was out-schemed by people with way more knowledge.

Also I don't think LF knew Bran was some god-like figure.  Which is more likely, that a cripple boy heard your catchphrase from somebody or that he's stream-sniping the entire universe?

Besides, his downfall is supposed to be symbolic.  Ned fell when he went south but found that people valued power over honor.  LF fell when he went north but found that people valued honor over power.
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achmed_sender

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #163 on: August 30, 2017, 07:51:14 am »
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Littlefinger should have calculated those two things being known and should have prepared plausible excuses/planned accordingly.
Also, it wasn't too far fetched that Sansa/Arya might talk about the issue and it's quite terrible to have no possible reaction in that eventuality.

The thing is, the way Sansa and Arya arranged it, they managed to catch LF off guard, he clearly wasn´t prepared at THAT very moment. Why wasn't he? I think he just underestimated Sansa and felt in wrong security, because he was too sure Sansa got trapped by his "What's the worst thing Arya could want"-scene. Which is not entirely unplausible, because Sansa had lots of moments already where she almost blindly followed LF's advices. But if the Stark sisters wouldn't have used the element of surprise, I bet he would have looked better defending himself.
In fact he even tried to convince Sansa to talk with her privatly, so he had time to find some excuses.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #164 on: September 05, 2017, 09:26:53 am »
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I feel the show kind of screwed up making Bran (and Arya to an extent) too powerful.

I was joking that the Stark household is full of Mary Sues: Jon is royal blood, Sansa leads Winterfell, Bran is nigh-omniscient, and Arya is unstoppable.

Of course, they all endured 7 years of shit to reach those points, so their rewards are paid for, but I could imagine someone tuning in this season believing that these are Mary Sues.

I'm rather glad for it actually. The characters are coming into their own.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #165 on: September 05, 2017, 09:31:36 am »
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As I rewatched episode 7 I realized that there is a really simple way to fix the Theon storyline: everything happens like in the episode, except the guy kills Theon, and that's it. That would be so... game of thrones. Way better.
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