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Author Topic: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]  (Read 3419 times)

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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2017, 02:02:48 pm »
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Also, all the Varys scenes are the best.

Danny giving him the business last episode was perfect. I feel like the show cuts short a lot Varys depth as a character (and he is one of the best and most mysterious in the books especially because he is never given a PoV chapter), but the actor makes up for a lot of it.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2017, 02:12:22 pm »
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I for one really like how Sansa is being played. Bran I don't care much, but Sansa is great.

Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2017, 02:13:29 pm »
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I really liked the taking of Highgarden, though. Great exist for Lady Olenna.
totally agree and I like that her final words were taking ownership over killing Jamie's son right to his face after he granted her mercy, shows her ruthlessness and gives Jamie some knowledge cercie doesn't have which we don't see very often.
 

I feel like this reveal might turn Jaime. After all, he's been following Cersei's mad plots for revenge. He still had enough doubt to actually help Tyrion get free, but he's been witness to Cersei's hard-on to kill Tyrion. Realizing just how wrong Cersei was may cause him to turn on her.

But maybe not. Maybe he'll get a sword in the gut while protecting her in the very end. Hopefully the story maintains the uncertainty with some surprising twists.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2017, 02:15:44 pm »
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I for one really like how Sansa is being played. Bran I don't care much, but Sansa is great.
Bran is really just a window into what he sees as the three-eyed raven (which is a really cool narrative tool that they have to use). Anytime we see Bran, but don't see visions is a lost opportunity in my book.


I wonder if there will be any teaching of "green seeing powers." Didn't Arya have dreams about being a wolf that seemed very real? Did Sansa have them as well? Or were those severed once separated from their wolves? That could be a way to potentially explore their characters and relationships much better.
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2017, 02:17:28 pm »
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Two of my favorite characters have gotten very little screen time--Brienne of Tarth and Bronn. Hoping to see more of them.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2017, 02:47:45 pm »
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Also this could be a crazy theory but did the tone in that scene seem like varys truly hates mellisandra and mellisandra felt like she was still realling from her previous failures but that she felt superior to varys. My random thought was could mellisandra have been the sorcerer who disfigured varys in the first place. We know she is old enough and in not sure varys has ever said what kind of sorcerer or wat gender.

Can't be this: Varys actually already got revenge on the sorcerer, he had the sorcerer apprehended and shipped in a box to his lair in King's Landing, where he presumably tortured the sorcerer to death. Happens in early season three:

Varys hates Melisandre because he hates religion and magic, but I think for the first time we are supposed to think that perhaps Varys has become too zealous in his anti-religion bias, whereas Melisandre has become wiser about her faith.

Ah thank you I couldn't remember if we knew that or not, also correction to something I said earlier it was actually visceron who flew directly over Jon when approaching the castle not rhegal
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faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2017, 04:05:33 am »
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What do you think about this episode's way to make the stakes more even? Better?

Well it made somewhat more sense. Except for teleporting Euron's fleet that somehow went to around Dorne to attack Yara's fleet, then back north to King's Landing to present the captives (why is Yara still alive?), and still arrived in time on the opposite side of the continent to destroy the Unsullied fleet.

What is confusing to me is that we have all these people counseling Dany that have been established to be really clever (Tyrion, Varys, even Grey Worm should know stuff about military command), and they get outmaneuvered by Cersei who doesn't have any known tactical geniuses on her side.

Lastly, uh what are the Dothraki doing? Isn't that a force of like one hundred thousand mounted warriors? Why don't you send them to Highgarden immediately once you learned that the fleet supposed to be protecting them has been destroyed?

And I think it's implausible that Dany did not aim for some weak spots first. The Vale is reigned by a weak boy whose chief advisor and a decent part of his army are stuck at Winterfell. And the Eyrie is probably not that impenetrable once you fly up there on a dragon. The Riverlands are in turmoil with no leadership whatsoever. Scare them off a bit and the minor lords will swear fealty, you could even reward one of them by giving the Riverlands to them.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 06:03:16 am by faust »
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faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2017, 04:16:53 am »
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Like I already said (and no-one disagreed yet) isn't this a 14 episode adaption of one book, rather than a 7 episode one? Don't they have 4 hours more than normally, rather than 3 less?
Well one thing is the books got longer over time. Books 6 and 7 will probably be even longer still. So there's more content to put into this. Second, they still used book 4 material during season 6 (the Iron Islands are the main example). It is only with this season that we get completely new material, so it's really more like 1.5 books. And of course finally, the show right now only has a vague similarity to what is going to happen in the books; too many story arcs have been cut or completely changed to expect anything else. A few examples:

- book!Sansa never gets married to Ramsay and consequently is on much better terms with Littlefinger, who sets her up to rule the Vale and the North.
- I'm pretty sure that everything happening at Oldtown is completely made up by the showrunners, the books aim this in a very different direction, and it involves a Sand Snake, Euron and Arya's mentor.
- speaking of Euron, his agenda seems very different in the show.
- Lady Stoneheart, Dorne and Aegon are story arcs either completely missing or not resembling anything from the show.
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faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2017, 04:19:11 am »
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I wonder if there will be any teaching of "green seeing powers." Didn't Arya have dreams about being a wolf that seemed very real? Did Sansa have them as well? Or were those severed once separated from their wolves? That could be a way to potentially explore their characters and relationships much better.
The show never explored this, and Sansa's wolf died too early for her to form a strong connection. Also there is a difference between green seeing (i.e. seeing things that happen at different times or different places) and warging (i.e. controlling an animal that you have a special bond with).
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2017, 05:48:14 am »
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Fine points, but it still seems wrong to say that they have less time than normal to adapt. You could say the same about previous seasons with equal right.

I'm not as upset about "teleporting," because... well, if they need a month to get from A to B, then presumably a month has passed between this episode's end and the next episode. Only if it some people can teleport but others take a long time, that's iffy. But I don't know the distances well enough to judge that. Like, does it take longer for John to get to Dragonstone than for Arya to get to Winterfell? If so she should already be there.

faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2017, 06:08:57 am »
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I was mildly irritated that the Iron Bank, located in the free city of Braavos which was founded by runaway slaves, apparently had a lot of money invested in slave trade.
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Teproc

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2017, 06:22:11 am »
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I was mildly irritated that the Iron Bank, located in the free city of Braavos which was founded by runaway slaves, apparently had a lot of money invested in slave trade.

This. I've grown to accept stuff like Littlefinger's teleporting device which he's apparently given a copy of to everyone in the show now, but this ? Ugh.

Pretty good episode though. I liked Olenna's last scene a lot.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2017, 07:21:47 am »
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Really, you think that's a problem? The largest bank in the world abandoning their principles to make money?

Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2017, 08:28:59 am »
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I'm not as upset about "teleporting," because... well, if they need a month to get from A to B, then presumably a month has passed between this episode's end and the next episode. Only if it some people can teleport but others take a long time, that's iffy. But I don't know the distances well enough to judge that. Like, does it take longer for John to get to Dragonstone than for Arya to get to Winterfell? If so she should already be there.

Yeah, I just chalk it up to fast-forwarding past the boring travel stuff. Presumably, while someone could walk to Winterfell faster than it took Jon to sail to Dragonstone, Arya may have to take some long routes as old river paths may have been washed out. Or she took a more obscure route to avoid another Lannister patrol. Or decided to go murder someone.

And it probably took a long time for the Unsullied to load up on the ships, giving Euron time to swoop in.

I think what makes things seem so jarring in this regard is that there's no indication of the passage of time. They don't show a ship arriving with a caption of "Two months later." We have very little frames of reference except for the scenes they show us, which can result in something taking months looking like it took a day when it's shown concurrently with a faster scene. But perhaps it's best that they don't give time periods because then any inconsistencies would be documented, and someone would say, "See, it says that it took him 3 weeks to get here, but such-and-such managed to do it in 5 days. What gives?"

Really, you think that's a problem? The largest bank in the world abandoning their principles to make money?

A lot of characters are pretty grey or downright evil. There are only a few genuinely decent characters on the show, and I imagine none of them works for the Iron Bank.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2017, 08:37:03 am »
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What do you think about this episode's way to make the stakes more even? Better?

Well it made somewhat more sense. Except for teleporting Euron's fleet that somehow went to around Dorne to attack Yara's fleet, then back north to King's Landing to present the captives (why is Yara still alive?), and still arrived in time on the opposite side of the continent to destroy the Unsullied fleet.


It seems like we should assume that after intercepting Yara and Theon, Euron turned back to King's landing with the captives while the bulk of his fleet sailed to Casterly Rock after the Unsullied.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2017, 09:01:48 am »
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I think what makes things seem so jarring in this regard is that there's no indication of the passage of time. They don't show a ship arriving with a caption of "Two months later." We have very little frames of reference except for the scenes they show us, which can result in something taking months looking like it took a day when it's shown concurrently with a faster scene. But perhaps it's best that they don't give time periods because then any inconsistencies would be documented, and someone would say, "See, it says that it took him 3 weeks to get here, but such-and-such managed to do it in 5 days. What gives?"

I think the problem is that it changed. In previous seasons, travel did take several episodes, so there was no need to indicate passage of time. They can't keep doing it that way, because then they can't wrap up the story so it's not something you could accuse the show of but now this problem comes up that was previously not there.

There are lots of ways to tell the audience that time passed. I actually think it would be better if they did something. Then we'd know which parts are actually inconsistent and which parts just indicate a time skip, and no-one would criticize the latter.

faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2017, 09:29:33 am »
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Really, you think that's a problem? The largest bank in the world abandoning their principles to make money?
I think the Braavosi have enough comtempt for slavery that they would try to sabotage the Iron Bank for this, so the bank wzould be forced to relocate their headquarters. That they haven't seems to indicate that the people of Braavos are generally okay with their practices.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2017, 10:30:23 am »
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Only if the Braavosi actually know what's going on. A lot of people in our society support banks that do incredibly unethical things, and we actually do have the information in theory.

faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2017, 10:55:03 am »
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Only if the Braavosi actually know what's going on. A lot of people in our society support banks that do incredibly unethical things, and we actually do have the information in theory.
sure they could do it secretly, but then they would hardly admit to it unprompted. I mean there are certainly explanations for the Iron Bank to do that, but we have seen nothing indicating them and to me it feels as though the writers just don't care all that much about what the background of these people is.
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Teproc

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2017, 05:46:47 am »
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It's not about being unethical... it's about going against everything their society is built open. Casually, since he doesn't mind admitting it to Cersei.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2017, 06:04:23 am »
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Yeah, but that's what naturally happens if there is a profit motive and a strong filter effect. Enormous wealth is regularly defended under the label of Christianity, even though Jesus said "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." That's one of the few areas where the bible is pretty consistent afaik. I don't have a hard time believing that the iron bank has done a 180 on their principles.

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2017, 06:12:52 am »
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Well, it's certainly hard to defend accumulating wealth as a Catholic, but as a Protestant you're fine.

WHat I'm saying is that the Iron Bank wouldn't have qualms about slavery because they'd think they'd get in trouble for it, but because they'd been conditionned to see it as absolute evil, since it's the very thing their society was built against. And certainly if they did profit off it nevertheless, they wouldn't be open about it.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2017, 08:53:05 am »
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It may be that the common man doesn't know about it, but the ruling elite does. When you're dealing with someone with as much power as Cersei, you have to expect that your dirty laundry will be known.

So maybe they do keep their slavery ties hidden, but when Cersei points them out to you, it'd be silly to deny them.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2017, 06:56:15 am »
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2017, 08:07:08 am »
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I'm glad I was alive to see this.

Aside from the obvious, I think I like every narrative turn in this story. I like how Arya didn't do anything stupid in the last minute, and that they had a proper reunion. I like how it only took this episode for Sansa to get a sense of what Arya has done (at least my sense was that she believes it now). I like how Arya doesn't try to hide it.

Also their second hug was great. For me it signaled Arya realizing "wait, Sansa isn't an idiot anymore!"

And I really like how this ballistic thing didn't kill the dragon. If it had, I think I would have criticized it as a plot convenience. Like, yeah this thing could in theory kill a dragon, but it's like shooting a normal sized arrow at a pig that also wears armor. If you are a really good hunter, and you have a lot of time to carefully aim, I'm sure you can kill it with one shot, but none of those things was the case here, and it seems far more likely to end up like in this episode.

The one thing that I kept wondering though (and not for the first time), is-- did real knights really use to practice with real swords? As great as that Arya vs Brienne scene was, it did seem unnecessarily dangerous.
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