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Author Topic: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]  (Read 2554 times)

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Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2017, 11:10:42 pm »
0

Ugh, the plan to split Daeny's forces was SOOOOO BAD. It's literally the only way she can lose. If they wanted to take Casterly Rock so bad, Daeny should just fly there and burn it the ground. Actually, a proper display of dragon power is probably the quickest way to get the people of King's Landing to rise up against Cersei. Daeny should burn some town and then tell the common people of KL that they have three days to avoid the same fate. It's not like anybody *wants* to follow Cersei. She blew up the sept!

Anyway, I've never really cared for the Sand Snakes--I was especially glad Tyrion called Ellaria out for killing Myrcella--so it was hard to be invested in the battle. Yara and Theon matter more, but was it just me or was the battle sort of mangled from a production standpoint? It was too dark and everyone looks too similar. And while last week Euron's characterization was a big improvement, this week I thought he was a tad too cartoonish.

I liked Daeny questioning Varys. I also liked Arya deciding to head north instead when she hears about Jon. Arya's revenge tour is fine but I actually like the idea that deep down, what she wants most of all, even more than revenge is reuniting with her family.

What else? Oh, Sam is cool. I like that he wanted to help Jorah, in part, because of his respect for Jorah's father, who was also a father figure to Sam. And it was cool to have those scenes in the same episode with Sam's actual father, Randyl Tarly, in King's Landing, being sort of a jerk. I assume he sides against the Tyrells and with Cersei, which is an additional blow to Daeny's forces.

I wonder if Daeny will realize how much worse her position is *before* she starts negotiating with Jon? Because she's in much less of a position to make him bend the knee now.

I'm excited to see Davos and Melisandre butt heads again, since those are two of my favorite characters, and their rivalry is much more interesting and sophisticated than a lot of other character relationships, IMO.
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Watno

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 05:02:16 pm »
+1

How did Arya manage not to hear about Jon taking Winterfell before? She pretended to be Walder Frey for at least a couple of days (while noone noticed his sons missing and someone making pie out of them in the kitchen).

Also why doens't Missandei close the door before undressing?


And why can't GRRM finish the books already?
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 06:38:22 pm »
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And why can't GRRM finish the books already?
This. So much this.
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 01:14:15 am »
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And why can't GRRM finish the books already?
This. So much this.

And even more this.

I have read yesterday that he's planning to publish the Winds of Winter AND the prequel (Blood and Fire or something, it's about Targaryens) in 2018. Then I suppose, the last book will see the light in 2094.
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Teproc

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 07:03:16 am »
0


And why can't GRRM finish the books already?
This. So much this.

And even more this.

I have read yesterday that he's planning to publish the Winds of Winter AND the prequel (Blood and Fire or something, it's about Targaryens) in 2018. Then I suppose, the last book will see the light in 2094.

I take it you're new to the ASoIaF thing ? The books will come out when they come out, and no one (not even GRRM most likely) knows when that is. It's better not to expect anything.
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LaLight

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2017, 07:33:22 am »
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Comparatively new, I've read them all a year ago and watched the series half a year ago.

I see your point, but funny thing is it was in the news yesterday, about publishing in 2018
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jonts26

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2017, 09:34:14 am »
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GGRM has a long history of given optimistic release dates. Dance was originally said to be coming out 1 year after feast. Actually took 5.
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2017, 05:20:59 pm »
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I can't overstate how much I like Arya going north. Everyone (at least that was the sense I got) expected her to now value revenge over everything else. Her choosing not to is both defying expectations and also, I think, the more plausible choice.

Agree that splitting armies wasn't a good choice strategically (narratively it's fine. At least not like this. You could probably do it in a way that wouldn't leave you as vulnerable to Euron (whom they know is out there). For example, you could have Melisandre with them, if she actually has the power to see these kinds of attacks coming (which she has claimed after Stannis lost half of his fleet). Or something else.

The only thing where I disagree with what Robz said is that Danny is really still in a commanding position. Yeah, she suffered a big loss, but she still has the larger army and still has dragons. She had a gigantic lead before, now it's still a big lead.

Love Jorah. Super want him to be cured.

What would be incredibly cool but very unlikely is if Sansa, knowing how little finger is a timebomb, just decides to kill him next episode. She could do it, no question, she has the power, he wouldn't expect it, and if she does it in a smart way, she probably wouldn't even lose the army of the vale. Someone said, conspire with the #3 guy, then kill #1 and #2 (aka little finger and whoever is second in command). Something like that.

Really. She should do it. She knows how dangerous LF is. That would be the kind of smart choice which Robz and Ned weren't making that would seriously improve her agenda. Also imagine that kind of sudden end to such a character whom everyone expects to have a master plan. I really think it'd be one of the greatest moments in the show... but still not likely.

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2017, 05:52:13 pm »
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Also something only tangentially related to the episode, but it made me think of it –

Melisandre is an amazing character.

First the mystery. Season 2, I had no idea what she wanted. A loyal servant to Stannis? A secret mastermind who plans to get rid of him as soon as it serves her? A legitimately insane person? A secret utilitarian just using others as tools? Or something else? I had all of those at similar odds. I really didn't know.

And now we do know. It's the first one. She's always been loyal, never planed to betray Stannis, she's legitimately believed she was fulfilling god's plan (it's even understandable, given that he gave her real power). And everything she's ever done makes sense knowing that.

Also in typical GoT strength, a gray character. Burns people alive. Horrible. Persuaded Stannis to burn his own daughter. But, she was also the one who convinced him to go north, which right there might have saved thousands of lives if not outright changed the outcome of humanity vs zombies. Without it, Westeros wouldn't be nearly as well prepared.

But the best thing is that she's been a religious fanatic while at the same time being smart, enough to actually learn from her mistakes. That was clear from her telling John "well idk what the lord wants from you maybe it's his plan for me to bring you back so you can die again here" last season, and now telling Danny "I really don't know what he wants, but helping you and John seems like a sensible strategy." No more being overconfident to know the one true plan of god. Plus telling the facts outright without needless obfuscation (storytelling in general needs more of that).

And then ofc the first episode from last season where we saw her true age. Also makes perfect sense and was super powerful. All around I think one of the greatest characters I've ever seen period. Wouldn't mind her surviving the show, either.

Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2017, 06:14:33 pm »
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I agree, Melisandre is a great character with real depth. Actress has done a terrific job playing her.
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2017, 11:47:10 pm »
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Probably the worst battle scene in GoT history. Can't think of one that I cared less about (seriously every character in that battle is a complete meh) and that was as painful to watch (the loghting was rough, two armies with same sigil so i had no idea who was killing who, comple lack of ant strategy apparent to the viewer).

Otherwise the episode was everything I wanted from the first episode.
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faust

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2017, 12:21:58 pm »
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How is Danaerys not able to correctly translate Valyrian into the common tongue?  >:(

I didn't buy the battle at the end at all. The showwriters are somehow trying to convince us the Dany and her allies would spend an entire strategic meeting without ever mentioning Euron? And then he just sneaks up on them somehow with his inferior ships and trashes the fleet? I mean it's just such an obvious "crap, we need to swing the power balance more in Cersei's favor somehow" move, and I knew that this was bound to happen, but I hoped they'd find a way that's more elegant than this.

I'm also a bit worried about Arya. In part because I fear they take her back too far in direction of season 1 Arya, which I don't want to happen, and in part because now she's going to Winterfell and we all know what usually happens when Arya tries to meet up with members of her family.

I also wondered how the Unsullied even get to Casterly Rock... isn't the fastest way sailing around Dorne, in which case they should have been part of Theon & Yara's fleet at the time of the attack? Or are they taking the land route?
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2017, 01:01:17 pm »
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Do they know Euron has teamed up with Cersei? If not it is less obvious.

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2017, 03:41:56 am »
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Do they know Euron has teamed up with Cersei? If not it is less obvious.
The idea I think is that they don't, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the guy you stole your ships from might not be on your friendly side. And he's still self-proclaimed king of the Iron Islands, so if Dany wants to unite the seven kingdoms, she'd have to deal with him eventually anyway.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2017, 12:13:00 pm »
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What do you think about this episode's way to make the stakes more even? Better?

Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2017, 12:31:15 pm »
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They're really fast-forwarding through things. I don't mind it too much.

I still don't buy that Euron was able to raise an even bigger fleet after Yara and Theron took their best ships, but it's a fantasy story. Okay, sure. Still not entirely convinced, but there are worse problems out there.

The Lannisters abandoning Casterly Rock to go after bigger fish, however, seems fitting. It's especially appropriate since Jaime and Cersei know how Tyrion thinks and could bank on Tyrion trying to exploit the traditionalists of the Lannisters. It makes for a rather decent spoiler.

The story speed is a bit jarring. I've been used to six seasons of heavy build-up and the occasional grand battle. This episode featured two significant battles, but they summarized the fights rather than go into the gory details. It lets us get more story, but it's kind of obvious now how they are managing to cram this season into seven episodes.

Having Dany and Jon Snow not ally right away did help. She has her eye on the throne, and Jon is not interested in settling that debt just yet—despite his entire family and homeland getting so royally fucked by the Lannisters. It allows for the resolution of King's Landing and the White Walkers without utterly smashing them.

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mcmcsalot

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2017, 12:46:34 pm »
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So first off my thoughts on episode two were pretty much the same as everyone else. I loved the scenes between Sam and Jora, also loved the return of nimeria. As far as the battle scene was concerned it could have been replaced with a scene from pirates of the carribean and I wouldn't have noticed a difference. I wasn't as upset about the whole plan as other people, I think it makes sense not to use dragons and split the army to cover as much ground as peacefully as possible, tyrion is her advisor so it makes sense he would advise the only people you really need to fight are the lanisters and then kings landing will just turn over to her. I feel like if the battle scene was done well and showed the fleet splitting up as then showed eurons fleet executing a plan of some kind then we could feel like man this great plan of dany's was foiled instead of feeling like umm that was dumb.

Transitioning to the 3rd episodes battle and the turning of tides, I loved the suprise that the lanister army was taking high garden, in this episode it was clear cercie/Jamie outsmarted Tyrion and that's the rivalry that enjoyable. I am glad they are making both sides somewhat even, though if they take down a dragon with a gosh darn blalista I'm going to be super upset. Also I thought they missed out on making a mother/son crossbow joke somewhere since that was like Geoffrey's jam when he was shooting prostitutes for fun.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2017, 12:50:27 pm »
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I think they just messed the entire Greyjoy part up last season. It happened was too fast and way too late into the show.

Like I already said (and no-one disagreed yet) – isn't this a 14 episode adaption of one book, rather than a 7 episode one? Don't they have 4 hours more than normally, rather than 3 less?

I get the strong sense with GoT (and I like that a lot) that they only show fights with unclear outcomes. First fight season 1 with Tyrion: didn't show, because the starks did their trick where most of their army wasn't there. Season 2 (?) the attack on King's Landing: shown, because it could have gone either way.

Stannis' defeat: didn't show, we knew how it would end. Battle of the Bastards: shown, it was unclear.

The ship fight in episode 2: shown, we didn't know which characters would die there (Euron could have died easily). The two fights in this episode: not shown, because both were one-sided. Similarly the fight with the black fish last season.

So this seems consistent and not because of lack of time, to me.

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2017, 12:54:55 pm »
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Also I miss still a little upset at how much liberty they are taking with the timing of things. It took bran a month to get to the three eyed raven and a day to get back to the wall, then somehow they can't get a raven to winterfell in time befor Jon leaves to go south warning him his brother is coming and Jon makes it all the way to dragonstone and we haven't seen arya make it to winterfell yet. Like I get that they are just fitting things in narratively and don't care about the ruined gaps but man it's hard to follow along the journey when teleportation is being passed off as "a good strong wind"
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Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2017, 01:02:52 pm »
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The show has just decided that characters can get to wherever they are going as fast as the plot demands. So we can polk holes in this all over the place, but it's just the way it is.

I was underwhelmed by the meeting of Jon and Daeny, personally.

I really liked the taking of Highgarden, though. Great exist for Lady Olenna.

The Bran/Sansa scene was written pretty badly. No good reason for Bran to be so evasive.

My favorite scene was Varys and Melisandre. I believe she just prophesied both their deaths.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2017, 01:13:27 pm »
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The Bran/Sansa scene was written pretty badly. No good reason for Bran to be so evasive.

I'm hoping that this was a conscious decision and not just a poorly done exchange. I'm hoping that the implication here is that Bran has transcended much of the mortal world and has become something else.

It reminds me of the Togashi monks from Legend of the Five Rings. In that RPG, the various clans usually bickered with each other and had a common enemy beyond a wall (sound familiar?). The Togashi, however, could be involved, but they mostly meditated and spoke weird koan. They weren't on the same level as everyone else. That's the feeling I got from Bran, but I am willing to concede that it wasn't as clever as I frame it.

But I hope it is.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2017, 01:20:46 pm »
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It almost has to be. They just proved with Melisandre that they don't suffer from the "characters talk in weirdly vague and unclear terms for no reason whatsoever" sickness that so many movies have fallen under. There are a number of possible reasons for why Bran wouldn't tell her more, but it's gotta be intentional.

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2017, 01:56:33 pm »
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The show has just decided that characters can get to wherever they are going as fast as the plot demands. So we can polk holes in this all over the place, but it's just the way it is.

I was underwhelmed by the meeting of Jon and Daeny, personally.
I wasn't underwhelmed at all. I loved the scene where Jon was being escorted up and rhegon flew overhead, combine that with the fact that dany reminded us that she named them after her brothers, I am excited to have the dragons play a part in jons realization that he is part targaryen.

I really liked the taking of Highgarden, though. Great exist for Lady Olenna.
totally agree and I like that her final words were taking ownership over killing Jamie's son right to his face after he granted her mercy, shows her ruthlessness and gives Jamie some knowledge cercie doesn't have which we don't see very often.

The Bran/Sansa scene was written pretty badly. No good reason for Bran to be so evasive.
yea I mean I think there is a reason Sansa and bran were not included in the actors that got a huge pay bump when the show got huge. They just aren't great actors and I'm not excited to have Sansa/bran/arya all running around winterfell with no elder figure there (for both story purposes and acting purposes.

My favorite scene was Varys and Melisandre. I believe she just prophesied both their deaths.
I loved this scene as well. Also this could be a crazy theory but did the tone in that scene seem like varys truly hates mellisandra and mellisandra felt like she was still realling from her previous failures but that she felt superior to varys. My random thought was could mellisandra have been the sorcerer who disfigured varys in the first place. We know she is old enough and in not sure varys has ever said what kind of sorcerer or wat gender.
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2017, 01:58:51 pm »
0

I thought the Bran/Sansa seen was super awkward and annoying and also perfect. These are two siblings that frankly had very little interaction in the first three episodes. Bran, I think, had little interest in Sansa growing up in Winterfell and probably vice versa. So all the sentimentality of their meeting was somewhat superficial and quickly dissipated, especially in the context of the horrors that they have both experienced.

I have to think the same will happen if/when Arya shows up. These were kids when they were separated and the after effect of their trauma's become much more apparent when you put them next to each other.

I also liked the juxtaposition of Littlefinger telling Sansa that she needed to see everything, when ta-da, Bran shows up and guess what? He can see everything (too much in Sansa's experience).
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Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2017, 02:01:36 pm »
0

Also this could be a crazy theory but did the tone in that scene seem like varys truly hates mellisandra and mellisandra felt like she was still realling from her previous failures but that she felt superior to varys. My random thought was could mellisandra have been the sorcerer who disfigured varys in the first place. We know she is old enough and in not sure varys has ever said what kind of sorcerer or wat gender.

Can't be this: Varys actually already got revenge on the sorcerer, he had the sorcerer apprehended and shipped in a box to his lair in King's Landing, where he presumably tortured the sorcerer to death. Happens in early season three:

Varys hates Melisandre because he hates religion and magic, but I think for the first time we are supposed to think that perhaps Varys has become too zealous in his anti-religion bias, whereas Melisandre has become wiser about her faith.
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