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Author Topic: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]  (Read 6635 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #100 on: August 16, 2017, 11:24:05 am »
0

Or prebook Sanderson.
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2.71828.....

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2017, 11:29:20 am »
0

Or prebook Sanderson.

I would say this is an acceptable option, but Sanderson has his own book problem. He has the stormlight archives to finish. And that will take a while. I would trust him to finish for GRRM though. He likes having multiple projects at a time
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Elestan

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #102 on: August 17, 2017, 10:05:57 am »
+1

My episode 6 gripes:

* So Jon and Jorah sail together from Dragonstone to Eastwatch for a month before heading out into the frozen north, and only after they're well away from Eastwatch and its armoury does Jon get around to deciding he needs to offer to give his only sword away?
* Tyrion is being made irrationally softhearted for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.
* Arya is being made irrationally psychotic for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.
* Sansa is being made unbelievably stupid for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.  Caveat:  If she and Arya are playing up their enmity deliberately to sucker Littlefinger, then all will be forgiven.
* Gendry was apparently training to run a frozen marathon while working his forge.
* Jon has been made into a complete tactical idiot, needlessly delaying the group's escape, by charging the enemy for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 10:07:50 pm by Elestan »
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2017, 02:38:06 pm »
0

My episode 6 gripes:

Warning:  Episode 6 spoilers!

* So Jon and Jorah sail together from Dragonstone to Eastwatch for a month before heading out into the frozen north, and only after they're well away from Eastwatch and its armoury does * Jon get around to deciding he needs to offer to give his only sword away?
* Tyrion is being made irrationally softhearted for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.
* Arya is being made irrationally psychotic for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.
* Sansa is being made unbelievable stupid for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.  Caveat:  If she and Arya are playing up their enmity deliberately to sucker Littlefinger, then all will be forgiven.
* Gendry was apparently training to run a marathon while working his forge.
* Jon is apparently a complete tactical idiot, who needlessly charges the enemy, delaying the group's escape for the purpose of injecting unnecessary dramatic tension.

Why u do dis...now I wanna click...
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #104 on: August 20, 2017, 11:59:13 am »
0

ugh that was bad (referring to e5). I'm not sure if I'm harsher on the show now because I've had Calamitas lay out all the plot holes I've missed to me, but this was really... ughhh. There's so much wrong with that episode. Has to be the worst of the show so far. I don't even want to list it all.

The worst part is the whole plan to show Cersei an undead guy. Like... wtf.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2017, 11:18:30 pm »
0

Also,

couldn't they have just waited for the guy that died by the bear to turn?  Didn't the ones in the first and second season rise without the White Walkers specifically reanimating them?  Though it sort of seems like that's the norm now.
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Cuzz

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2017, 11:30:14 pm »
0

Holyshitidontevencareundeaddragonholyshit
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Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #107 on: August 20, 2017, 11:35:21 pm »
0

Called it! I totally called it. I so called it that the episode was robbed of some dramatic tension for me, since I could see the dragon-death-reanimation thing coming a mile away.

I'm surprised only Thoros died. I was expecting to say goodbye to some actual main characters, not just a bunch of extras.

Still on the fence about whether any of the Winterfell stuff is working at all.

Jon bend the knee? Daeny should bend the knee! Jon Targaryen is the rightful king of Westeros. Sad that only Bran and Gilly have enough information to piece that together.

Pretty good episode, I like a lot of the conversations, although Hardhome was still better, I think, in terms of undead horror awesomeness.

Speaking of which, I have to say this, this season and the last has totally butchered the Night King's makeup, for some reason. He looked coolest in the Hardhome episode, genuinely menacing. Now he just looks kind of stupid. It's a different actor now, but production really screwed it up. Oh well.
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Robz888

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #108 on: August 20, 2017, 11:37:00 pm »
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The_Wine_Merchant

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #109 on: August 21, 2017, 12:56:53 am »
0

So many bad things but I don't even care.

Cersi totally gonna get frozen by an ice dragon.
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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #110 on: August 21, 2017, 07:11:01 am »
0

Messy as always, but spectacular enough that it doesn't sour it. Wyrms have been anticipated for so long in the ASoIaF, glad to see it coming to bear (hah).
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Cuzz

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #111 on: August 21, 2017, 10:49:06 am »
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How long are we supposed to believe that they were stuck on that lake?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #112 on: August 21, 2017, 10:55:23 am »
0

How long are we supposed to believe that they were stuck on that lake?

Looked like at least a full night passes.  Apparently it must be one raven flight + one dragon flight.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2017, 10:56:56 am »
0

How long are we supposed to believe that they were stuck on that lake?

That was my big complaint. I'm trying to dismiss it as a fantasy world where the Lord of Light kept them from freezing to death. Presumably they have enough food with them to survive. Water is not a problem. It's really the time spent in freezing temperatures that should have done them in.

At the very least, they could have had Tyrion warn Dany that they've already been out there for 3 days, so she is probably too late. That would have given us some sort of time frame.

Mostly it's a lot of hand-waving, and we would just drive ourselves nuts if we try to apply too much logic to it. That's not a great method unfortunately.

I'm going to keep watching it to the end because of the sunk-cost fallacy, but it won't be a complete waste of time. It still has some great moments, but it's no longer great overall.
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LaLight

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2017, 06:03:57 pm »
0

Why didn't flaming sword keep them warm?
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Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #115 on: August 21, 2017, 06:23:32 pm »
0

Why didn't flaming sword keep them warm?

Mostly I think the problem is that they didn't explain away the amount of time they spent on that rock with a single scene of them huddling around the sword periodically. I know that they don't have to show us everything, and that's the reason why I will overlook this "flaw". I will pretend that it was their connection to the Lord of Light that protected them.

But it'd be nice if they could explain things so that we don't have to make these leaps. After all, we've seen the sword mostly used in combat. I recall one use to cauterize a wound. Maybe there were other scenes in earlier seasons, but I don't recall those. So can the sword be used as a personal heater? Seems reasonable, but we don't know the extent of how the sword can be used.
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Teproc

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2017, 07:10:16 pm »
0

"the problem is that they didn't explain"

That's where you're wrong, I think. As much as I love them, the books have their logic problems, and the show was always going to be much worse, especially with the accelerated narrative now. Overexplaining is the worst thing they can do, it would make the gaps in logic unforgivable.

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Elestan

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2017, 07:40:27 pm »
+1

My own view on this:

It seems to me that most TV writers are far more creative than they are analytical.  In keeping with this, they place a high priority on the beauty and emotion of a scene, and are not particularly bothered by inconsistencies in timelines or continuity.  Presumably, much of the audience also falls into this mindset.  But for those of us of a more analytical bent, those problems fly at our brains like a murder of three-eyed ravens, shattering the verisimilitude of the show in a cacophony of contradictions.  Sadly, in most genres other than hard SF, we are either in a small minority, or the writers don't understand how we think, or they just don't care.  So we get to keep sighing at all the mediocre drek that Hollywood keeps vomiting out, doing our best to turn off the analytical sides of our brains so that we can just enjoy the pretty special effects.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2017, 08:43:39 pm »
0

"the problem is that they didn't explain"

That's where you're wrong, I think. As much as I love them, the books have their logic problems, and the show was always going to be much worse, especially with the accelerated narrative now. Overexplaining is the worst thing they can do, it would make the gaps in logic unforgivable.



Sure, overexplaining is a problem, which is why the creators have to balance between filling in holes and not treating us like children.

But I think Elestan is correct that creativity usually wins out over logic.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2017, 08:47:08 pm »
0

My own view on this:

It seems to me that most TV writers are far more creative than they are analytical.  In keeping with this, they place a high priority on the beauty and emotion of a scene, and are not particularly bothered by inconsistencies in timelines or continuity. 

I personally think this is for the better.  I think the best shows are the ones that circumvent this through being surreal, like Twin Peaks, The Leftovers.

Quote
Presumably, much of the audience also falls into this mindset.  But for those of us of a more analytical bent, those problems fly at our brains like a murder of three-eyed ravens, shattering the verisimilitude of the show in a cacophony of contradictions.  Sadly, in most genres other than hard SF, we are either in a small minority, or the writers don't understand how we think, or they just don't care.  So we get to keep sighing at all the mediocre drek that Hollywood keeps vomiting out, doing our best to turn off the analytical sides of our brains so that we can just enjoy the pretty special effects.

In some cases I think it's just a tradeoff.  Making the narrative and plot tighter may not necessarily translate to a better-told story.
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silverspawn

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #120 on: August 22, 2017, 07:34:58 am »
0

Agree with most of what's been said. The show's definitely getting worse now, previously it was creative and it made sense, now it's still creative but makes less sense. It was definitely far better than the previous episode.

The ending was indeed obvious.
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Elestan

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #121 on: August 22, 2017, 09:32:33 am »
+2

Agree with most of what's been said. The show's definitely getting worse now, previously it was creative and it made sense, now it's still creative but makes less sense. It was definitely far better than the previous episode.

I think the problems started when they outran GRRM's material.  He took the time and effort to make sure that the timelines of the characters mostly lined up, so the parts of the show drawn from the books benefited from that rigor.  I've done a bit of storyline crafting while working on an RPG, and have a lot of respect for the effort and discipline it takes to do this well; you think of a cool scene or event, get it all pictured in your head, and then sit down to work out the details only to realize that there's a key character who just can't be where you want them.  Do you abandon your cool scene, or give in to the temptation to let reality bend "just this once"?

But once you bend the rules the first time, you're on the slippery slope to do it more and more often, until you end up with things like 500kph ravens.  So, while I understand the temptation, I will always reserve my greatest praise for the writers who can craft a great story with cool scenes without taking such shortcuts.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #122 on: August 22, 2017, 11:21:15 am »
0

Did anyone notice longclaws eyes open when Jon touches it after coming out of the water...because it did and that Wolfy is aliiiiiiive
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Witherweaver

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #123 on: August 22, 2017, 11:31:20 am »
0

Did anyone notice longclaws eyes open when Jon touches it after coming out of the water...because it did and that Wolfy is aliiiiiiive

Reddit discussed this; it seems to be a visual effect of the reflection off of his glove.
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Loempiaverkoper

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Re: Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2017, 07:51:54 am »
+1

worst episode ever...

All the conversations between the squad seemed appropriate if they where in some kind of fortified position they could hold. Being totally surrounded on all sides should make them way more desperate.
"We must defend and extract the captured zombie" , wtf yeah sure, stfu, you are doomed.
Genry can escape and a raven gets to Dragonstone in time. sure....
"Fall back!" to where? you are surrounded. *Continues dragging zombie in some direction.
What you see and what the characters were saying just didn't match up at all.

Only reason I could think up about why the white walkers were just sitting there waiting is if they expected the dragon to come.

Still this doesn't make up for all the bad shit. Also winterfell was shit. Overuse of the old horrible writing tactic to let characters exit the stage before a conflict conversation can be resolved. Arya and Sansa have been in Winterfell some time now, are we supposed to believe they still haven't just sat down and shared some stories.

So I watched a bad action movie and a bad soap opera. Feels like they got some superhero movie writers on board or something.

O I forgot about Benjin. hahah, here he comes savior of the day. Take my horse. Now I'll die. Byeeee. Plotline resolved..
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