Miscellaneous > General Discussion
Game of Thrones (show) [spoiler warning]
mcmcsalot:
Hey so I really enjoyed the survivor thread where people discussed their thoughts on current episodes and I'm sure there are lots of game of thrones fans that would enjoy doing the same.
I figure the thread has one big spoiler warning so no need to use spoiler tags unless it's for book specific knowledge which pure show watchers may or may not want to know. Assume when coming to the thread that you have seen the most recently aired episode.
I would love to discuss everything from plot theories and thoughts to episode structure and directorial decisions.
mcmcsalot:
As for my thoughts on the first episode I would give it an A rating.
I have been very upset about the change to 7 hours as opposed to 10 because other than just wanting more got, I have felt in the past certain characters would have benefitted from more screen time and development. All those concerns were put to rest as this episode did a great job touching base with every single faction (aside from olenna & dorn) and I didn't feel rushed with any of them.
My favorite part of the episode was probably the part with the mountain, they have really taken his character a long way and have transitioned him from comedic one-liners to "audience voice" really well. It feels like he thinks differently from everyone else in a very real non fantasy way but is forced to fit into this fantasy world and the interactions caused by that are wonderful.
I'm curious how other people felt about the opening. I thought it was interesting that they used the break to allow the possibility that the scene was showing us what happend prior to walda frey's death and actually thought that was what they were doing untill (s)he told the daughter not to drink the wine. We're other people caught off guard or did you think it had to be arya since she just killed him?
I was probably most disappointed with the scenes in the north. Sansa is the character I most wish the show had done a better job developing up to this point. It frustrating because her relationship with John has barely been shown and Sansa's overall "clever level" hasn't really been developed either. It's clear she wishes she was Queen in the north and given the respect she deserves for bringing the nights of the veil to the table but the exchanges with her and John insinuate she is truly proud of John and thinks he makes a good leader. Overall it just feels like her characters true motivations are really all over the place and it's hard to place what she wants. I sadly think it may be the fact that Sophie turner isn't the best actress and so she is portraying Sansa's emotions very on the nose. When she said "I know what he(littlefinger) wants" I don't know if she thinks he just wants her, or if she realizes he wants to create a divide between her and John because together littlefinger has to help them and has to be second to John but divided he has more power then either commanding the knights of the veil.
Loved loved loved the intro to old town and the citadel, I thought it strung together well and really got the gross and tedious nature of sams job across. Though I was a little taken aback and I'm curious if others felt similarly. The repetitive nature of that opening scene typically indicates a passage of time even longer than shown, as though this is what been going on for so long were snap cutting it together in faster and faster clips to "speed through time" to present moment. However contrast that to arya at the trident and it seems like this season has picked up right after the end of the last season. Maybe I am forgetting how long Sam is supposed to have been at the citadel, but that struck me as a bit odd. Other than that I loved the exchange between Sam and the grand maester. I'm slightly torn be the fact that I'm happy they have set up a season arc right off the bat, Sam finds the dragon glass John needs, and Dany lands in Westeros on top of said dragon glass, but slightly frustrated at the deus ex machina nature of a giant mine of dragon glass. I would have preferred Sam perhaps discover dragon glass is created by extreme heat reacting to saline deposits and then show one of the dragons flam broiling and eating a bird atop a rock on the coast of dragonstone, show the rock that has been beaten by salt water turn into a glimmering shard of dragon glass and then pan the camera down through the earth to reveal the giant deposits of dragon glass. That gets the same outcome but feel much less cheap I think.
Lastly I enjoyed the jora mormont tag and I hope sets up for Sam to cure his stone skin and be part of the catalyst for John/Sam to work with dany in the future.
Oh and the actor who played yuron greyjoy lost too much weight/cut off too much hair in between seasons, curious if anyone else felt that way, I mean I'm all for gettin fitnknce you've got yourself a big role in a show but yeesh did they need to dress in in tight leather pants a mesh shirt, we get it he's supposed to be sexually threatening to Jamie, he might has well strolled in and asked Circe "how you doin?".
That's all for now, looking forward to discussing thought with everyone and watching more Game of Thrones!
Robz888:
Yay!!! Great idea.
--- Quote from: mcmcsalot on July 17, 2017, 10:41:03 am ---I have been very upset about the change to 7 hours as opposed to 10 because other than just wanting more got, I have felt in the past certain characters would have benefitted from more screen time and development. All those concerns were put to rest as this episode did a great job touching base with every single faction (aside from olenna & dorn) and I didn't feel rushed with any of them.
--- End quote ---
I agree, I was worried about the shorter season, but the thing is, there are actually fewer characters than there have ever been, so now we have ample time to spend with everyone. I mean, just King's Landing has always had so many people we barely had time to check in with everybody every week, but now it's practically empty, just Cersei and Jamie.
--- Quote from: mcmcsalot on July 17, 2017, 10:41:03 am ---My favorite part of the episode was probably the part with the mountain, they have really taken his character a long way and have transitioned him from comedic one-liners to "audience voice" really well. It feels like he thinks differently from everyone else in a very real non fantasy way but is forced to fit into this fantasy world and the interactions caused by that are wonderful.
--- End quote ---
I think you mean the Hound! But I agree. He's had a great redemptive arc, very believable. They are also doing a great job of selling the Brotherhood as a group of people you would actually want to join, because hey, they're pretty good people, unlike everyone else.
--- Quote from: mcmcsalot on July 17, 2017, 10:41:03 am ---
I'm slightly torn be the fact that I'm happy they have set up a season arc right off the bat, Sam finds the dragon glass John needs, and Dany lands in Westeros on top of said dragon glass, but slightly frustrated at the deus ex machina nature of a giant mine of dragon glass. I would have preferred Sam perhaps discover dragon glass is created by extreme heat reacting to saline deposits and then show one of the dragons flam broiling and eating a bird atop a rock on the coast of dragonstone, show the rock that has been beaten by salt water turn into a glimmering shard of dragon glass and then pan the camera down through the earth to reveal the giant deposits of dragon glass. That gets the same outcome but feel much less cheap I think.
--- End quote ---
They really dropped the ball on this one because STANNIS ALREADY TOLD SAM THEY HAD DRAGONGLASS ON DRANGONSTONE. Why did Sam need to sail around the world for an entire season to learn something he already knew?
--- Quote from: mcmcsalot on July 17, 2017, 10:41:03 am ---Oh and the actor who played yuron greyjoy lost too much weight/cut off too much hair in between seasons, curious if anyone else felt that way, I mean I'm all for gettin fitnknce you've got yourself a big role in a show but yeesh did they need to dress in in tight leather pants a mesh shirt, we get it he's supposed to be sexually threatening to Jamie, he might has well strolled in and asked Circe "how you doin?".
--- End quote ---
This slightly rebooted version of Euron is, however, a bit more in keeping with the books, which portray Euron as a very sexy/sexual pirate dude. And also a complete homicidal maniac in the Joffrey/Ramsay vein, which so far the show has tempered a bit. I don't mind it, frankly. Enough sadism.
Other thoughts:
-- I'm not sure I buy Dragonstone being completely abandoned. Stannis would have left like a couple people to guard it. I could see those people surrender to Daeny upon her arrival, since they have no one to fight for... but completely abandoned? Nah.
-- The producers did a good job of making Dragonstone, a place we've already visited, seem new and interesting again. For Stannis, Dragonstone was the out-of-the-way castle he got stuck with bitterly. But for Daeny, it's her birth rite and homecoming. That said, I didn't love the addition of the Eastern-looking dragon statues, doesn't really fit with established Targaryen aesthetic.
-- All the costumes, in general, while very cool-looking, were a bit too modern and sci fi ish. The Kingsguard members look like Cylon centurions. Even Sansa looks like she's ordering her dresses from the Mad Queen's catalogue.
-- Similarly, the dialogue has gotten too modern--probably because the showrunners no longer have Martin's written dialogue to rely on. (These are small complaints, mind you.)
-- Where is Melisandre? I thought maybe she had gone back to Dragonstone, but apparently not.
-- Show!Jamie, unlike Book!Jamie, still seems pretty devoted to Cersei.
-- It was nice change of pace to encounter a group of random soldiers who were just, you know, friendly.
-- I love Arya, and her revenge is cool, but it's a little morally uncomplicated for my tastes. (I prefer the Lady Stoneheart revenge arc from the books, which is cool but makes you start thinking hey, is this kind of just as bad as the thing they are avenging?)
Robz888:
Unlike mcmc, I did actually like the drama in the north just fine. Jon and Sansa aren't opposed to each other, but they're not always on the same page, and the show has done a good job of setting that up: of course Sansa cares more about King's Landing stuff, she's never actually seen the White Walkers or zombies, whereas of course Jon cares more about the Night's King, he's existed outside traditional dynasty politics. And it makes sense for Sansa to feel a little slighted by Jon becoming king, and she's clearly been influenced by both Cersei and Littlefinger. I even found it totally believable for Sansa to think disinheriting the Karstarks and Umbers was right, and for Jon to disagree. So there was a lot of northern tension that I thought was surprisingly well grounded in believable conflict.
mcmcsalot:
--- Quote from: Robz888 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:14 pm ---They really dropped the ball on this one because STANNIS ALREADY TOLD SAM THEY HAD DRAGONGLASS ON DRANGONSTONE. Why did Sam need to sail around the world for an entire season to learn something he already knew?
--- End quote ---
I forgot about that! Ugh maybe that what the show was hoping for but jeez that makes it that much worse. Also why is the location of dragon glass in the restricted area of the library, also why a restricted area in the citadel at all. Very overused trope of the "restricted area" holds all the things you need to know without any explaination as to why they are restricted. At least the grand maester Sam talked to had a good point of it's not that I don't believe you, in fact evidence points to you must be telling the truth but what we are doing here in more important than anything the people outside this citidel can even imagine.
--- Quote from: Robz888 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:14 pm ---Other thoughts:
-- I'm not sure I buy Dragonstone being completely abandoned. Stannis would have left like a couple people to guard it. I could see those people surrender to Daeny upon her arrival, since they have no one to fight for... but completely abandoned? Nah.
--- End quote ---
Couldn't agree more, it cheapens stannis's whole theme of a stubborn unmoving tactician to leave his entire castle empty. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they shot some people surrendering to dany and it felt out of place/didn't fit into her homecoming scene when it hit the edit bay because as you say that whole scene was really well done.
--- Quote from: Robz888 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:14 pm ----- The producers did a good job of making Dragonstone, a place we've already visited, seem new and interesting again. For Stannis, Dragonstone was the out-of-the-way castle he got stuck with bitterly. But for Daeny, it's her birth rite and homecoming. That said, I didn't love the addition of the Eastern-looking dragon statues, doesn't really fit with established Targaryen aesthetic.
--- End quote ---
From the perspective of a casual viewer(my wife) it definitely felt like a special moment, when they showed the stone figurines which we have previously scene stannis's moving around when planning his battles she went "aww are those her toys from when she was a baby". So the scene definitely did its job of making the place feel special to dany.
--- Quote from: Robz888 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:14 pm ----- All the costumes, in general, while very cool-looking, were a bit too modern and sci fi ish. The Kingsguard members look like Cylon centurions. Even Sansa looks like she's ordering her dresses from the Mad Queen's catalogue.
--- End quote ---
Ugh yea I found this pretty atrocious, I mean isn't one of the plot point supposed to be that the crown is broke and owes tons of money to the bank, where did they get the money to commission new armor for all of the kingsguard. Like leave the gold armor, change the white cloth accents to black cloth accents, woulda been much more belivable.
--- Quote from: Robz888 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:14 pm ----- Where is Melisandre? I thought maybe she had gone back to Dragonstone, but apparently not.
--- End quote ---
One of the only characters not shown, I think this is another timing problem. Last we saw she was in her little dungeon room being all old. I would guess she is going to run into the brotherhood especially with the hound continually making fun of the priest guy for being old and balding.
--- Quote from: Robz888 on July 17, 2017, 12:31:14 pm ----- It was nice change of pace to encounter a group of random soldiers who were just, you know, friendly.
-- I love Arya, and her revenge is cool, but it's a little morally uncomplicated for my tastes. (I prefer the Lady Stoneheart revenge arc from the books, which is cool but makes you start thinking hey, is this kind of just as bad as the thing they are avenging?)
--- End quote ---
I think these two point actually go together and will begin to bring the morality into aria's revenge arc. Previously all she has encountered are pure good and pure evil characters really, now she finds a group of Lannister soldiers who are genuinely kind and want to go home to see there families. I feel like they are trying to hint at a not all Lannister people are bad, maybe you should go be with your brother and sister kind of vibe.
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