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Author Topic: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?  (Read 596 times)

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JacquesTheBard

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Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« on: July 11, 2017, 03:49:12 pm »
+1

Dominion is full of glorious edge-cases. Obviously I can see picking up cards that give benefits other than trashing. Getting Steward for draw, for example. I can also see the addition of trash for benefit cards. Maybe a single trasher to activate Market Squares mid-turn. But cards where thinning is the whole point, like Chapel? They're borderline obsolete.
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terminalCopper

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 04:03:19 pm »
+8

Against junk attacks, you want a trasher to avoid getting 8 debt on a regular basis.
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aku_chi

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 04:29:45 pm »
+3

There are plenty of cases where you want a trasher in a Donate kingdom if there is junking or the trasher does something else for you.  I've played Donate games where Trader or Bishop played a big role after Donating.  I played one Donate game where I got a Forager just for the +buy (so I had to keep some junk around to gain multiple cards per turn post-Donate).

The Chapel case is certainly more edgecasey.  Maybe you're setting up some kind of Chapel + Tomb payload or golden deck, maybe with Fortresses.  I thought about Beggar first, but then I realized that if there are any villages, Donate would be better for the trashing: a deck of 3 Villages and 4 Beggars would generate 12 VP per turn until the Coppers run out.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 04:45:27 pm by aku_chi »
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faust

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 04:03:57 pm »
+1

There's definitely a case for Chapel > Donate on a Alms board.
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ackmondual

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 12:40:27 am »
0

Dominion is full of glorious edge-cases. Obviously I can see picking up cards that give benefits other than trashing. Getting Steward for draw, for example. I can also see the addition of trash for benefit cards. Maybe a single trasher to activate Market Squares mid-turn. But cards where thinning is the whole point, like Chapel? They're borderline obsolete.
There actually are cases to get 2 Chapels, so why not?

Trashing cards to get VP from Tomb. 
Buying Estates to get VP from Battlefield, then trash those. 
TfB trashers.
Buying Copper to get VP from Basilica or Labyrinth
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 12:41:36 am by ackmondual »
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Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy

Titandrake

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 02:00:48 am »
0

Dominion is full of glorious edge-cases. Obviously I can see picking up cards that give benefits other than trashing. Getting Steward for draw, for example. I can also see the addition of trash for benefit cards. Maybe a single trasher to activate Market Squares mid-turn. But cards where thinning is the whole point, like Chapel? They're borderline obsolete.
There actually are cases to get 2 Chapels, so why not?

Trashing cards to get VP from Tomb. 
Buying Estates to get VP from Battlefield, then trash those. 
TfB trashers.
Buying Copper to get VP from Basilica or Labyrinth

I've sometimes bought a 2nd Chapel when I've had awful shuffle luck, like drawing Chapel turn 5 with my turn 3 and turn 4 buy. I don't know if it's correct, since normally those games are so far gone that I lose anyways.
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jomini

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 10:04:12 am »
0

Dominion is full of glorious edge-cases. Obviously I can see picking up cards that give benefits other than trashing. Getting Steward for draw, for example. I can also see the addition of trash for benefit cards. Maybe a single trasher to activate Market Squares mid-turn. But cards where thinning is the whole point, like Chapel? They're borderline obsolete.

Sure, there are a bunch of options there:
1. Getting a cheap way to deal with junking attacks. Say you grab Followers, I can either plan to burn $8 on trashing periodically or spend a cheap, spare buy (e.g. Princess lets me grab a Amulet for $1 & a buy) and kill the curses in turn. Once your deck is maximally thinned, lining up trash and trasher is really easy and 8 debt becomes a much higher opportunity cost. Plus, of course, there are plenty of options for gaining trashing on the cheap - Iw a Smerch to deal with Kc/Nbrig. $8 with a buy is almost always enough to buy 2 out of the three things you need to trash in turn - draw, action, and trashing ability; very often you will already have one of those in excess.

Some might argue that getting junking attacks in a Donate game is bad, but ultimately if I spend $5 on something like Mountebank or Witch, I am forcing you to spend $8 later. Not always a good trade with future discounting, but not always bad if I want the secondary bonus of the attack (e.g. if I need net draw for my Tr engine).

2. In like manner I may be gaining junk (e.g. Followers, Defiled shrine, Ritual, Whunt, Gkeeper) for some benefit and the opportunity cost of adding a trasher is less than Donating periodically. Other similar ideas include cheap Possession defense (trash out some coin so my deck no longer hit $8 without having to skip a Possession buy). Repeated activation of on-trash cards (e.g. Sqr, Feoda).

3. Deck tailoring for scoring Landmarks on the final turn. For example I might grab a Chapel so I have the option of dumping Gold with Bandit Fort if I think I can three pile soon. Likewise, I may want to get rid of stuff like trashing attacks or duration cards with Wall out (e.g. Tr/Chapel on my last turn to burn Amb/Opost/3x Hwoods/3x village for a net gain of 7 VP). Wolf den is also possible. I could donate my penultimate turn ... but that means my opponent has a turn to respond and I have to burn a $8 and a buy.

4. Seeding on gain bonuses (e.g. Bv, Mandarin, Inn) into the trash during my turn to gain them with Grobber or Rogue. This prevents my opponent from snagging my bonuses.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 10:08:35 am by jomini »
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luser

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Re: Is it ever worthwhile to buy trashers on a Donate board?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 11:25:53 am »
0

possession doesn't work as donate is much better to glass your deck Once you could play multiple possessions per turn just use donate to trash all treasures with debt opponent couldn't buy copper while possessing you
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