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Author Topic: A Link to the Past Randomizer  (Read 1783 times)

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GendoIkari

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A Link to the Past Randomizer
« on: July 04, 2017, 02:56:55 am »
+9

So when I'm unable to play Breath of the Wild because my wife is busy, I've found a new Zelda game to occupy my time... A Link to the Past Randomizer. This is a rom hack (actually a web-based software that hacks a rom you provide it) that randomizes the locations of all 200-some items that you get in the game from chests, bosses, NPCs, and things just sitting there in secret caves and such.

So while you normally start in your house and open a chest to get the lantern immediately, that chest could have anything, such as a Hookshot, Moon Pearl, or most likely just some rupees (nearly a quarter of all chest items in the game are just rupees).

So basically you have a lot of the skill and fun of regular Zelda 3, combined with a lot more puzzle solving, feeling a lot like an escape-the-room puzzle. You have to know where you can go without any items to check chests; then once you get something like the hammer, you have to know what new locations that opened up for you to check. Ultimately you need to  get all 7 crystals to get in Gannon's tower and beat the game like normal.

The programming uses logic to ensure that it will never be impossible to beat the game (the hammer can't be in a chest that requires the hammer to get to).

If you're a fan of A Link to the Past, I highly recommend it. I've played through about 8 times now. My best time is 3:01. Speed runners who play the game in race formats competitively take about 1:30.

Website for the game.
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2017, 12:43:23 pm »
0

WanderingWinder and I actually met each other on Twitch watching a race of an aLttP randomizer, which was nice. They're great fun, you do need good knowledge but it's very rewarding.

My best time so far was just under 2 hours I think, I've done about four of them and improved down from 4:30 to 3 hours to 2:30 to 2:00, but that last one was reasonably lucky. I need to learn some of the main minor glitches (fake flippers, which lets you swim in certain places without flippers; Silverless Ganon, which is exactly what it sounds like; a few of the major bomb jumps, most notably in Ice Palace to cut several minutes off of the dungeon), and then I'm gonna sign up for the next tournament.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2017, 12:50:17 pm »
0

Nice! I've never gotten into actually speedrunning myself; though I do try to improve my PB. But I don't try to use minor glitches. Except that I did do Silverless Gannon for the first time recently. That one is almost necessary depending on the seed; it could be the difference between winning now or doing up to 3 extra dungeons looking just for the arrows.
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scotty2hotty

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 09:00:41 pm »
+2

I just got my first <2hr time (1:55) after maybe 5 full runs and 20 starts. If I get to the Dark World and see Turtle Rock is required, and the run isn't otherwise going well, I often quit. Though I am improving at TR the 1:55 run required it.

For glitches, I found fake flippers quick to learn and often useful. I'm trying to learn the important bomb jumps but I haven't practiced them enough to do reliably. And man, dark rooms / silverless Ganon just don't sound like fun, though I do attempt them when they come up.

It's a really fun game, especially given how it was retrofitted onto the original game's mechanics and design. If there was an indie game with a similar concept and equally satisfying mechanics, I'd be all over it.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 09:03:02 pm by scotty2hotty »
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 10:23:52 pm »
0

My best is now 2:33... and I still don't care to really try to get to real speed-running levels.

I did just recently learn the Ice Palace bomb jump. However, I haven't figured out the rest of that dungeon for when you aren't in Go Mode already. But if you don't need any chests, that dungeon is amazingly fast with that bomb jump. I've can do Fake Flippers and hookshot-dash superspeed as well.

Just today I had the worst seed I've played yet. Even though Turtle Rock wasn't required (and never had to enter it), everything else was terrible. I had to go into many dungeons that I couldn't complete yet before I found either the lamp or ocarina, meaning Death Mountain was cut off (I haven't learned Death Mountain passage in the dark). Also, I didn't have a sword until after all that (I always play open mode). Ended with a little under 4 hours, after having to do silverless Ganon, which I'm bad at.
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SirSlugma

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 11:57:39 pm »
+2

I had fun the other day doing a Pegasus bootless seed. Do not recommend. I couldn't get a key in ganons tower off the bonk spot, went all the way upstairs without a small key and got stuck, and realized at the end I forgot to check the right side chests. Oops.

Randomizer is so legit though. I saw wanderingwinder a few times in speed gaming chatrooms on twitch, which was pretty exciting lol.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2017, 05:01:23 am »
+2

I had fun the other day doing a Pegasus bootless seed. Do not recommend. I couldn't get a key in ganons tower off the bonk spot, went all the way upstairs without a small key and got stuck, and realized at the end I forgot to check the right side chests. Oops.

Randomizer is so legit though. I saw wanderingwinder a few times in speed gaming chatrooms on twitch, which was pretty exciting lol.

I once had what I thought was going to be a Bootless seed. Then I get to Ganon's Tower, and the Big Key is on the bonk spot! So I went through the rest of the chests hoping for the boots, but nope... had to go back out somewhere to a dungeon I didn't need to find them.

About twice I've gone upstairs without a small key. I don't think I'll make that mistake again.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 05:03:37 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2017, 08:51:29 am »
+1

The new Triforce Hunt is pretty fun. At least on Normal, your objective is very different from standard - since you only need to find 2/3rds of the Triforce pieces, you probably don't need to reach GT, so collecting all the crystals is likely not required. That means you're focusing only on finding locations with lots of chest, as opposed to getting the items to clear dungeons.

I had a fairly interesting seed (Normal standard Triforce hunt, seed 129313834) which took me about 1 hour 40 minutes. Got pretty lucky at the end though - had 18/20 and two chests back to back gave me the last pieces I need, otherwise I would have had to go somewhere somewhat slower to get chests.
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SirSlugma

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2017, 02:38:28 pm »
0

I liked the triforce hunting, but boy was it jarring being in the middle of T-Rock and having the game just immediately end.  I wonder if they'd be interested in combining triforce hunting mode with regular clear?  Like, you can only damage Ganon if you have the required number of triforce shards, or something comparable.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2017, 03:07:31 pm »
+3

I hadn't heard about the Triforce hunt; I'll have to check it out.

Did you guys see this complete madness?

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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2017, 11:36:42 pm »
0

Just did Triforce Hunt (normal difficulty). It's a nice change from always having to beat most of the bosses and do Ganon's tower and Ganon every time. Although it was a pretty trolly seed that forced me to do Agahnim's tower with only the level 1 sword to get anywhere.
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Robz888

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2017, 12:41:04 pm »
+1

Okay, I started playing this. It's great.
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2017, 01:22:39 pm »
0

Couldn't there be unsolvable randomization setups?  I guess it's been a while (highschool?) since I played through this, but it seems like you could have a lock, where you need A to get B and you need B to get A.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2017, 01:30:24 pm »
+3

Couldn't there be unsolvable randomization setups?  I guess it's been a while (highschool?) since I played through this, but it seems like you could have a lock, where you need A to get B and you need B to get A.

There's logic to prevent it. So not just anything can be in literally any location.  Like, there's about 32 chests that you can get without having any item whatsoever, except bombs which you can find lying around, so it is guaranteed that at least one of those 32 chests has to contain an item that lets you go somewhere new.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:36:41 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2017, 01:31:08 pm »
0

Couldn't there be unsolvable randomization setups?  I guess it's been a while (highschool?) since I played through this, but it seems like you could have a lock, where you need A to get B and you need B to get A.

There's logic to prevent it. So not just anything can be in literally any location.

Ah, I see.  Cool :)
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 01:50:20 pm »
+2

Now that question has me testing my own knowledge of the game. From just memory; here's all the chests you can get without finding any items. This is for open mode, so no sword, and no Escape chest. (Also assuming no minor glitches, or doing rooms in the dark).

1 Link's House
1 Sanctuary
1 Back of Inn
5 Blind's Hideout
5 Well in Kakariko
1 Old woman's house
1 Bottle Merchant
1 15 second game
2 Lost Woods
5 Moldorm Cave (pretty hard to do with only bombs)
2 Reservoir
1 Ice Rod chest
2 Secret Passage
1 Desert cave
3 Sahasrahla's hideout
3 Eastern Palace (or 4, depending on if the Big Key is one of those 3 or not).
3 Hyrule Castle basement (Also annoying with only bombs; but I've had seeds that force you to do it).

In addition, you can check what the item is, but not get it, for the library,the woodcutter's tree, and the desert ledge.

So 38 (or 39 depending on Eastern Palace Big Key).

So worst possible start would be one where the first 37 chests you opened were no items or even rupees (so you have to farm a bunch to check bottle merchant and later Zora); and the very last 1 just has a trade item like Shovel or Mushroom.

Most likely the last one you check in that case would be Eastern; because going to Eastern with no items at all sucks.

On the other hand, it means you could win Triforce Hunt mode without ever finding a progression item.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 02:40:07 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2017, 01:54:18 am »
+2

Ugh, I just ran a seed where fire rod was in Turtle Rock. There's only 1 chest you can get in Turtle Rock without fire rod. Unless that 1 chest is a small key, which it was.
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2017, 11:52:23 am »
+1

Just had a pretty trolly seed myself, which really made me wish I knew more dark rooms. It requires you to enter dungeons you didn't have all the items to clear three times, as well as two Pendant Dungeons (although they are fast pendant dungeons to check at least):

You need to go to cyrstal EP to get a Progressive Glove, but with no lantern to clear it.
Then you need to go to Pendant Skull Woods, which you can full clear, for the boots.
You also at this point need to go to Pendant Thieves Town for the Hammer, and without that hammer you couldn't have full cleared it.
Then you need to go to Turtle Rock to get Ether.
Ether lets you into Mire, which FINALLY gives you the lamp to let you clear the rest of Mire, TR, and EP, as well as PoD.

Also, Hookshot was in double chested fairy, behind PoR and TR, so a lot of convenient shortcuts and item locations were locked out.

I did a few dark rooms lampless, like the platform maze in TR, screw going all the way back there after finding the lamp, and made my way up to DM without it only to find nothing of import.
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2017, 11:13:10 pm »
0

So, me and my brother started playing this, but now I'm stuck.  My brother was looking at my spoiler (I didn't want to look at it myself at first) and he thinks I have an unwinnable seed.  I'm a bit more optimistic however.  Anyway, here's the spoiler:

Code: [Select]
{
    "Light World": {
        "Altar": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Uncle": "Progressive Sword",
        "[cave-034] Hyrule Castle secret entrance": "Heart Container",
        "[cave-018] Graveyard - top right grave": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[cave-047] Dam": "Heart Container",
        "[cave-040] Link's House": "Magic Cape",
        "[cave-031] Tavern": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-026] chicken house": "Three Bombs",
        "[cave-044] Aginah's cave": "Heart Container",
        "[cave-035] Sahasrahla's Hut [left chest]": "Arrow",
        "[cave-035] Sahasrahla's Hut [center chest]": "Progressive Glove",
        "[cave-035] Sahasrahla's Hut [right chest]": "Magical Boomerang",
        "[cave-021] Kakariko well [top chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-021] Kakariko well [left chest row of 3]": "Five Rupees",
        "[cave-021] Kakariko well [center chest row of 3]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-021] Kakariko well [right chest row of 3]": "Progressive Sword",
        "[cave-021] Kakariko well [bottom chest]": "Bow",
        "[cave-022-B1] Thief's hut [top chest]": "Moon Pearl",
        "[cave-022-B1] Thief's hut [top left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-022-B1] Thief's hut [top right chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[cave-022-B1] Thief's hut [bottom left chest]": "Three Hundred Rupees",
        "[cave-022-B1] Thief's hut [bottom right chest]": "One Rupee",
        "[cave-016] cave under rocks west of Santuary": "Heart Container",
        "[cave-050] cave southwest of Lake Hylia [bottom left chest]": "Three Bombs",
        "[cave-050] cave southwest of Lake Hylia [top left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-050] cave southwest of Lake Hylia [top right chest]": "Three Bombs",
        "[cave-050] cave southwest of Lake Hylia [bottom right chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-051] Ice Cave": "Arrow Upgrade (5)",
        "Bottle Vendor": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Sahasrahla": "Twenty Rupees",
        "Magic Bat": "Arrow Upgrade (5)",
        "Sick Kid": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Hobo": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Bombos Tablet": "Ether",
        "King Zora": "Magic Powder",
        "Piece of Heart (Thieves' Forest Hideout)": "Twenty Rupees",
        "Piece of Heart (Lumberjack Tree)": "Bomb Upgrade (5)",
        "Piece of Heart (south of Haunted Grove)": "Twenty Rupees",
        "Piece of Heart (Graveyard)": "Bomb Upgrade (5)",
        "Piece of Heart (Desert - northeast corner)": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-050] cave southwest of Lake Hylia - generous guy": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Library": "Bomb Upgrade (5)",
        "Mushroom": "Heart Container (refill)",
        "Witch": "Shovel",
        "Piece of Heart (Maze Race)": "Lamp",
        "Piece of Heart (Desert - west side)": "Silver Arrows Upgrade",
        "Piece of Heart (Lake Hylia)": "One Hundred Rupees",
        "Piece of Heart (Dam)": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Piece of Heart (Zora's River)": "Heart Container",
        "Haunted Grove item": "Progressive Sword",
        "Waterfall Fairy - Left": "Arrow Upgrade (5)",
        "Waterfall Fairy - Right": "Progressive Armor"
    },
    "Hyrule Castle": {
        "[dungeon-C-1F] Sanctuary": "Bug Catching Net",
        "[dungeon-C-B1] Escape - final basement room [left chest]": "Heart Container",
        "[dungeon-C-B1] Escape - final basement room [middle chest]": "Three Bombs",
        "[dungeon-C-B1] Escape - final basement room [right chest]": "Arrow Upgrade (5)",
        "[dungeon-C-B1] Escape - first B1 room": "Fifty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-C-B1] Hyrule Castle - boomerang room": "Sewers Map",
        "[dungeon-C-B1] Hyrule Castle - map room": "Sewers Key",
        "[dungeon-C-B3] Hyrule Castle - next to Zelda": "Heart Container"
    },
    "Eastern Palace": {
        "[dungeon-L1-1F] Eastern Palace - compass room": "Five Rupees",
        "[dungeon-L1-1F] Eastern Palace - big chest": "Three Bombs",
        "[dungeon-L1-1F] Eastern Palace - big ball room": "Eastern Palace Compass",
        "[dungeon-L1-1F] Eastern Palace - Big key": "Eastern Palace Map",
        "[dungeon-L1-1F] Eastern Palace - map room": "Eastern Palace Big Key",
        "Heart Container - Armos Knights": "Twenty Rupees",
        "Eastern Palace Pendant": "Crystal 6"
    },
    "Desert Palace": {
        "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - big chest": "Desert Palace Map",
        "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - Map room": "Flippers",
        "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - Small key room": "Desert Palace Key",
        "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - Big key room": "Progressive Glove",
        "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - compass room": "Desert Palace Big Key",
        "Heart Container - Lanmolas": "Desert Palace Compass",
        "Desert Palace Pendant": "Crystal 5"
    },
    "Death Mountain": {
        "Old Mountain Man": "One Rupee",
        "Piece of Heart (Spectacle Rock Cave)": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Ether Tablet": "Three Hundred Rupees",
        "Piece of Heart (Spectacle Rock)": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-012-1F] Death Mountain - wall of caves - left cave": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-013] Mimic cave (from Turtle Rock)": "Bomb Upgrade (5)",
        "[cave-009-1F] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [top left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-009-1F] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [top left middle chest]": "Three Bombs",
        "[cave-009-1F] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [top right middle chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[cave-009-1F] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [top right chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-009-1F] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [bottom chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[cave-009-B1] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [left chest]": "Bottle (Green Potion)",
        "[cave-009-B1] Death Mountain - wall of caves - right cave [right chest]": "Fifty Rupees",
        "Piece of Heart (Death Mountain - floating island)": "Progressive Sword"
    },
    "Tower Of Hera": {
        "[dungeon-L3-1F] Tower of Hera - first floor": "Tower of Hera Map",
        "[dungeon-L3-1F] Tower of Hera - freestanding key": "Magic Mirror",
        "[dungeon-L3-2F] Tower of Hera - Entrance": "Tower of Hera Big Key",
        "[dungeon-L3-4F] Tower of Hera - 4F [small chest]": "Tower of Hera Key",
        "[dungeon-L3-4F] Tower of Hera - big chest": "Tower of Hera Compass",
        "Heart Container - Moldorm": "Ice Rod",
        "Tower of Hera Pendant": "Crystal 2"
    },
    "Castle Tower": {
        "[dungeon-A1-2F] Hyrule Castle Tower - 2 knife guys room": "Key",
        "[dungeon-A1-3F] Hyrule Castle Tower - maze room": "Key"
    },
    "Dark World": {
        "[cave-057-1F] Dark World Death Mountain - cave from top to bottom [top chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-057-1F] Dark World Death Mountain - cave from top to bottom [bottom chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-056] Dark World Death Mountain - cave under boulder [top right chest]": "Bomb Upgrade (10)",
        "[cave-056] Dark World Death Mountain - cave under boulder [top left chest]": "Three Bombs",
        "[cave-056] Dark World Death Mountain - cave under boulder [bottom left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-056] Dark World Death Mountain - cave under boulder [bottom right chest]": "Heart Container",
        "[cave-055] Spike cave": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Catfish": "Ten Arrows",
        "Piece of Heart (Pyramid)": "Fifty Rupees",
        "Pyramid Fairy - Left": "Three Bombs",
        "Pyramid Fairy - Right": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[cave-063] doorless hut": "Fifty Rupees",
        "[cave-062] C-shaped house": "Three Bombs",
        "Piece of Heart (Treasure Chest Game)": "Ten Arrows",
        "Piece of Heart (Dark World blacksmith pegs)": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Piece of Heart (Dark World - bumper cave)": "Three Hundred Rupees",
        "Blacksmiths": "Bottle",
        "Purple Chest": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-073] cave northeast of swamp palace [top chest]": "Heart Container",
        "[cave-073] cave northeast of swamp palace [top middle chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[cave-073] cave northeast of swamp palace [bottom middle chest]": "Bomb Upgrade (5)",
        "[cave-073] cave northeast of swamp palace [bottom chest]": "Fifty Rupees",
        "Flute Boy": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[cave-073] cave northeast of swamp palace - generous guy": "Arrow Upgrade (5)",
        "Piece of Heart (Digging Game)": "Hammer",
        "[cave-071] Misery Mire west area [left chest]": "Three Hundred Rupees",
        "[cave-071] Misery Mire west area [right chest]": "Bottle (Red Potion)"
    },
    "Dark Palace": {
        "[dungeon-D1-B1] Dark Palace - shooter room": "Palace of Darkness Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - big key room": "Palace of Darkness Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - jump room [right chest]": "Palace of Darkness Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - jump room [left chest]": "Palace of Darkness Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-B1] Dark Palace - turtle stalfos room": "Palace of Darkness Big Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - statue push room": "Palace of Darkness Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - big chest": "Palace of Darkness Compass",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - compass room": "Half Magic",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - spike statue room": "Bottle (Green Potion)",
        "[dungeon-D1-B1] Dark Palace - room leading to Helmasaur [left chest]": "Hookshot",
        "[dungeon-D1-B1] Dark Palace - room leading to Helmasaur [right chest]": "Palace of Darkness Key",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - maze room [top chest]": "Pegasus Boots",
        "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - maze room [bottom chest]": "Palace of Darkness Map",
        "Heart Container - Helmasaur King": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Palace of Darkness Crystal": "Pendant Of Wisdom"
    },
    "Swamp Palace": {
        "[dungeon-D2-1F] Swamp Palace - first room": "Swamp Palace Key",
        "[dungeon-D2-B1] Swamp Palace - big chest": "Swamp Palace Map",
        "[dungeon-D2-B1] Swamp Palace - big key room": "Swamp Palace Compass",
        "[dungeon-D2-B1] Swamp Palace - map room": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-D2-B1] Swamp Palace - push 4 blocks room": "Progressive Shield",
        "[dungeon-D2-B1] Swamp Palace - south of hookshot room": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-D2-B2] Swamp Palace - flooded room [left chest]": "Fire Rod",
        "[dungeon-D2-B2] Swamp Palace - flooded room [right chest]": "Ten Arrows",
        "[dungeon-D2-B2] Swamp Palace - hidden waterfall door room": "Mushroom",
        "Heart Container - Arrghus": "Swamp Palace Big Key",
        "Swamp Palace Crystal": "Crystal 4"
    },
    "Skull Woods": {
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - big chest": "Skull Woods Key",
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - Big Key room": "Skull Woods Map",
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - Compass room": "Skull Woods Big Key",
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - east of Fire Rod room": "Book Of Mudora",
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - Entrance to part 2": "Bombos",
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - Gibdo/Stalfos room": "Skull Woods Key",
        "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - south of Fire Rod room": "Skull Woods Key",
        "Heart Container - Mothula": "Skull Woods Compass",
        "Skull Woods Crystal": "Pendant Of Courage"
    },
    "Thieves Town": {
        "[dungeon-D4-1F] Thieves' Town - Room above boss": "Progressive Shield",
        "[dungeon-D4-B1] Thieves' Town - Bottom left of huge room [bottom right chest]": "Thieves Town Key",
        "[dungeon-D4-B1] Thieves' Town - Bottom left of huge room [top left chest]": "Thieves Town Big Key",
        "[dungeon-D4-B1] Thieves' Town - Bottom right of huge room": "Arrow Upgrade (5)",
        "[dungeon-D4-B1] Thieves' Town - Top left of huge room": "Ten Arrows",
        "[dungeon-D4-B2] Thieves' Town - big chest": "Thieves Town Map",
        "[dungeon-D4-B2] Thieves' Town - next to Blind": "Piece Of Heart",
        "Heart Container - Blind": "Thieves Town Compass",
        "Thieves Town Crystal": "Crystal 3"
    },
    "Ice Palace": {
        "[dungeon-D5-B1] Ice Palace - Big Key room": "Ice Palace Key",
        "[dungeon-D5-B1] Ice Palace - compass room": "Ice Palace Big Key",
        "[dungeon-D5-B2] Ice Palace - map room": "Ice Palace Compass",
        "[dungeon-D5-B3] Ice Palace - spike room": "Fifty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-D5-B4] Ice Palace - above Blue Mail room": "Ice Palace Map",
        "[dungeon-D5-B5] Ice Palace - b5 up staircase": "Flute",
        "[dungeon-D5-B5] Ice Palace - big chest": "Ice Palace Key",
        "Heart Container - Kholdstare": "Cane Of Somaria",
        "Ice Palace Crystal": "Crystal 7"
    },
    "Misery Mire": {
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - big chest": "Misery Mire Map",
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - big hub room": "Misery Mire Key",
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - big key": "Misery Mire Key",
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - compass": "Misery Mire Big Key",
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - end of bridge": "Misery Mire Key",
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - map room": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - spike room": "Arrow Upgrade (10)",
        "Heart Container - Vitreous": "Misery Mire Compass",
        "Misery Mire Crystal": "Crystal 1"
    },
    "Turtle Rock": {
        "[dungeon-D7-1F] Turtle Rock - Chain chomp room": "Quake",
        "[dungeon-D7-1F] Turtle Rock - compass room": "Turtle Rock Key",
        "[dungeon-D7-1F] Turtle Rock - Map room [left chest]": "Progressive Shield",
        "[dungeon-D7-1F] Turtle Rock - Map room [right chest]": "Turtle Rock Key",
        "[dungeon-D7-B1] Turtle Rock - big chest": "Turtle Rock Key",
        "[dungeon-D7-B1] Turtle Rock - big key room": "Turtle Rock Big Key",
        "[dungeon-D7-B1] Turtle Rock - Roller switch room": "Progressive Armor",
        "[dungeon-D7-B2] Turtle Rock - Eye bridge room [bottom left chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-D7-B2] Turtle Rock - Eye bridge room [bottom right chest]": "Turtle Rock Key",
        "[dungeon-D7-B2] Turtle Rock - Eye bridge room [top left chest]": "Three Bombs",
        "[dungeon-D7-B2] Turtle Rock - Eye bridge room [top right chest]": "Turtle Rock Map",
        "Heart Container - Trinexx": "Turtle Rock Compass",
        "Turtle Rock Crystal": "Pendant Of Power"
    },
    "Ganons Tower": {
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - down left staircase from entrance": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - north of gap room [top left chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - north of gap room [top right chest]": "Ganons Tower Key",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - north of gap room [bottom left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - north of gap room [bottom right chest]": "Ganons Tower Key",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - west of teleport room [top left chest]": "Ten Arrows",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - west of teleport room [top right chest]": "Ganons Tower Map",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - west of teleport room [bottom left chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - west of teleport room [bottom right chest]": "Five Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - north of teleport room": "Five Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - map room": "Heart Container",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - big chest": "Ganons Tower Key",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - down right staircase from entrance [left chest]": "Cane Of Byrna",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - down right staircase from entrance [right chest]": "Ganons Tower Key",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - above Armos": "Three Hundred Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - east of down right staircase from entrance": "Ganons Tower Big Key",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - compass room [top left chest]": "Boomerang",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - compass room [top right chest]": "Fifty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - compass room [bottom left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - compass room [bottom right chest]": "Bomb Upgrade (5)",
        "[dungeon-A2-B1] Ganon's Tower - north of Armos room [bottom chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-A2-B1] Ganon's Tower - north of Armos room [left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-B1] Ganon's Tower - north of Armos room [right chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-A2-6F] Ganon's Tower - north of falling floor four torches [top left chest]": "Twenty Rupees",
        "[dungeon-A2-6F] Ganon's Tower - north of falling floor four torches [top right chest]": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-A2-6F] Ganon's Tower - before Moldorm": "Piece Of Heart",
        "[dungeon-A2-6F] Ganon's Tower - Moldorm room": "Ganons Tower Compass"
    },
    "Special": {
        "Turtle Rock Medallion": "Bombos",
        "Misery Mire Medallion": "Ether",
        "Waterfall Bottle": "Bottle (Golden Bee)",
        "Pyramid Bottle": "Bottle (Golden Bee)"
    },
    "playthrough": {
        "1": {
            "Light World": {
                "Uncle": "Progressive Sword",
                "[cave-035] Sahasrahla's Hut [center chest]": "Progressive Glove",
                "[cave-021] Kakariko well [right chest row of 3]": "Progressive Sword",
                "[cave-021] Kakariko well [bottom chest]": "Bow",
                "[cave-022-B1] Thief's hut [top chest]": "Moon Pearl",
                "Piece of Heart (Maze Race)": "Lamp"
            },
            "Eastern Palace": {
                "[dungeon-L1-1F] Eastern Palace - map room": "Eastern Palace Big Key"
            }
        },
        "2": {
            "Eastern Palace": {
                "Eastern Palace Pendant": "Crystal 6"
            },
            "Castle Tower": {
                "Agahnim": "Defeat Agahnim"
            }
        },
        "3": {
            "Dark Palace": {
                "[dungeon-D1-B1] Dark Palace - room leading to Helmasaur [left chest]": "Hookshot"
            }
        },
        "4": {
            "Dark World": {
                "Piece of Heart (Digging Game)": "Hammer"
            },
            "Dark Palace": {
                "[dungeon-D1-1F] Dark Palace - maze room [top chest]": "Pegasus Boots"
            },
            "Skull Woods": {
                "[dungeon-D3-B1] Skull Woods - east of Fire Rod room": "Book Of Mudora"
            },
            "Thieves Town": {
                "[dungeon-D4-B1] Thieves' Town - Bottom left of huge room [top left chest]": "Thieves Town Big Key"
            }
        },
        "5": {
            "Light World": {
                "Piece of Heart (Desert - west side)": "Silver Arrows Upgrade"
            },
            "Desert Palace": {
                "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - Map room": "Flippers"
            },
            "Tower Of Hera": {
                "[dungeon-L3-1F] Tower of Hera - freestanding key": "Magic Mirror",
                "[dungeon-L3-2F] Tower of Hera - Entrance": "Tower of Hera Big Key"
            },
            "Thieves Town": {
                "Thieves Town Crystal": "Crystal 3"
            }
        },
        "6": {
            "Light World": {
                "Bombos Tablet": "Ether"
            },
            "Desert Palace": {
                "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - Big key room": "Progressive Glove",
                "[dungeon-L2-B1] Desert Palace - compass room": "Desert Palace Big Key"
            },
            "Tower Of Hera": {
                "Tower of Hera Pendant": "Crystal 2"
            },
            "Swamp Palace": {
                "Swamp Palace Crystal": "Crystal 4"
            }
        },
        "7": {
            "Desert Palace": {
                "Desert Palace Pendant": "Crystal 5"
            },
            "Death Mountain": {
                "Piece of Heart (Death Mountain - floating island)": "Progressive Sword"
            },
            "Swamp Palace": {
                "[dungeon-D2-B2] Swamp Palace - flooded room [left chest]": "Fire Rod"
            }
        },
        "8": {
            "Ice Palace": {
                "[dungeon-D5-B1] Ice Palace - compass room": "Ice Palace Big Key",
                "[dungeon-D5-B5] Ice Palace - b5 up staircase": "Flute"
            }
        },
        "9": {
            "Ice Palace": {
                "Heart Container - Kholdstare": "Cane Of Somaria",
                "Ice Palace Crystal": "Crystal 7"
            }
        },
        "10": {
            "Misery Mire": {
                "[dungeon-D6-B1] Misery Mire - compass": "Misery Mire Big Key"
            }
        },
        "11": {
            "Misery Mire": {
                "Misery Mire Crystal": "Crystal 1"
            }
        },
        "12": {
            "Ganons Tower": {
                "[dungeon-A2-1F] Ganon's Tower - east of down right staircase from entrance": "Ganons Tower Big Key"
            }
        },
        "13": {
            "Ganons Tower": {
                "Agahnim 2": "Defeat Agahnim 2"
            }
        },
        "14": {
            "Dark World": {
                "Ganon": "Defeat Ganon"
            }
        },
        "longest_item_chain": 14,
        "regions_visited": 27
    },
    "meta": {
        "difficulty": "normal",
        "variation": "none",
        "logic": "no-glitches-26",
        "seed": 655331976,
        "goal": "ganon",
        "build": "2017-08-11",
        "mode": "standard"
    }
}

So, the magic mirror is in the Tower of Hera.  To get into there, you either need the magic mirror or the hammer.  To get the hammer, I need to beat the digging game.  To get the shovel, I need the mushroom.  And to get the mushroom, I need to get into the Swamp Palace.  However, to get into the Swamp Palace, I need the magic mirror.  Either way I need the mirror and I can't get it yet.  Do any of you know another way to get around this?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

SirSlugma

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2017, 09:44:42 am »
+1

You don't actually need the shovel to do the digging game. When you pay the guy 80 rupees your item is switched to the shovel automatically until time runs out or you leave the screen. Assuming you can get into the village of outcasts, digging game is open.
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2017, 12:07:20 pm »
0

You don't actually need the shovel to do the digging game. When you pay the guy 80 rupees your item is switched to the shovel automatically until time runs out or you leave the screen. Assuming you can get into the village of outcasts, digging game is open.

Correct. In the real LTTP game; you lose the shovel permanently when you dig up the ocarina. Doing the digging game is no different with or without the shovel in your possession.

(If you do have the shovel, you could keep digging after the time runs out; but it would be just like digging anywhere else in the world; the field only contains extra money and a special item during the game).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 12:17:39 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 12:20:31 pm »
+1

I was thinking the other day about how fun it would be to see a TAS of this. Assuming that part of the TAS includes finding the theoretical fastest possible seed. There would be a lot of interesting routing questions about which chests are the fastest to get to, and which dungeons you can skip.
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2017, 10:14:46 pm »
+1

Yeah, I'm used to the GBA version where you keep the shovel after getting the ocarina.  I'm not sure about whether or not you can do the digging game earlier though.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

GendoIkari

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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2017, 10:34:09 pm »
0

Yeah, I'm used to the GBA version where you keep the shovel after getting the ocarina.  I'm not sure about whether or not you can do the digging game earlier though.

There's a GBA version of LTTP? And they changed the way the shovel works?

I can see the advantage to keeping the shovel; sometimes digging around is a quicker way to get magic when you need it.
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Re: A Link to the Past Randomizer
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2017, 10:41:14 pm »
0

Yeah, I'm used to the GBA version where you keep the shovel after getting the ocarina.  I'm not sure about whether or not you can do the digging game earlier though.

There's a GBA version of LTTP? And they changed the way the shovel works?

I can see the advantage to keeping the shovel; sometimes digging around is a quicker way to get magic when you need it.

Yeah, it's bundled with Four Swords.  I'm guessing they weren't sure how many people would actually play Four Swords so they decided to put LTTP along with it.  It's mostly exactly the same, but with a few minor changes.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm
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