Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Arena, Basilica, Baths, Colonnade, Labyrinth: the 6 VP-per player Landmarks  (Read 691 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1936
  • Respect: +1922
    • View Profile
+7



(This article is pretty casual and assumes 2 player games.)

All these Landmarks have similar play patterns, so I think it makes sense to have 1 article for all of them.

At most, these can give you 12 VP. This isn't enough to wildly change how you approach a board, which makes them have lower impact than other Landmarks. However, like other Landmarks, it's important to at least stay even in the subgame they create.

You can divide the conditions into ones that are easy to satisfy, and ones that are hard. What exactly does that mean? I think of a condition as easy if you're guaranteed to move all 12 VP off the Landmark by the end of the game, and hard if that isn't going to happen. It's going to depend on the game, but Colonnade, Labyrinth, and Battlefield are often easy, and Baths is usually hard.

If the condition is easy:
It's pretty important to get 6 VP from the Landmark. If you only get 4 VP, and they get 8 VP, it's a 4 VP difference, and you need a Province to make up the difference. That can be a tall order on some boards, especially if the Landmark VP was easy to acquire.

To get to 6 VP you need to meet the condition 3 times. This doesn't mean you always go for the condition at every opportunity - it means you play in a way that makes it easy to meet the condition early in the game. The way this pans out in practice:

Arena: Overbuy terminals (but not too much), think a bit before playing your last Action.
Basilica: Get +Buy early and use it. (Note it triggers on every buy, so if you buy two $3s, you'll get 2 VP on your 1st buy.) If you can't do this, buying a $5 cost when you have $7 is the best case.
Battlefield: It's hard to balance this one, but roughly, a money-ish deck should buy Duchies over Gold after the 1st Gold. In engine vs BM, engine can afford to contest about 4 VP and try to make up the rest of the diff through a better deck. In engine vs engine it's very hard to judge.
Colonnade: Identify 2 key actions and focus on those in the early game. If you can get away with focusing on just 1 Action, even better, but you normally can't.
Labyrinth: Get +Buy or a gainer early and use them.

Baths is almost never easy to satisfy, so it doesn't get a section. Sometimes you have cards like Tactician to make it easier.

If the condition is hard:
Ignore it for most of the game, and treat it as an alternate source of VP in endgame. For example, gain Baths VP instead of buying Estate in late game. Same for Basilica.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

DG

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3795
  • Respect: +2265
    • View Profile
0

These cards get more important when there is a possible 3 pile ending.
Logged

faust

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1539
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +1926
    • View Profile
0

I think this should include an important rule of thumb:

If you and your opponent are currently split evenly on Landmark VP, do not sacrifice speed for VP. Otherwise do it (to a reasonable extent).

Especially important for 1-per-turn landmarks.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Jack Rudd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 944
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +822
    • View Profile
0

Chapel is Baths's best friend.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

stechafle

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
  • Respect: +11
    • View Profile
0

Probably should mention Events that don't gain cards in conjunction with Baths.
Logged

Jack Rudd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 944
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jack Rudd
  • Respect: +822
    • View Profile
+1

Probably should mention Events that don't gain cards in conjunction with Baths.
Mission is probably a good one in that context.
Logged
Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

trivialknot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 312
  • Respect: +371
    • View Profile
+1

For some of these landmarks, if the VP are easily accessible but limited to once per turn, then you should pay attention to the even/oddness of the remaining tokens.  There's greater pressure to take the VP when there are an odd number of 2VP tokens, and less pressure when there are an even number.

Also worth noting that Basilica triggers when you buy debt cards.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2088
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +2290
    • View Profile
+3

man Baths sucks. there's no board where you're like "i'm gonna do this alternate strategy for baths points that i wouldn't otherwise do" - either you both get the points doing something you already would do, or neither of you get the points because it's often silly to skip gaining a card early game for transitive points.

i disagree though that the most powerful of these don't "wildly change how you approach a board" - sometimes they can. Battlefield's presence alone is a big Rebuild buff - A non-mirrored Rebuild player can EASILY get at least 10 of the VP, and that's a huge amount of VP in a Rebuild game where the Duchies have been melted away. Arena gives you a decently powerful incentive to overdo your terminal Actions, or even just to grab some useless cantrip. Basilica is also sometimes cute and does a thing.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1936
  • Respect: +1922
    • View Profile
0

These cards get more important when there is a possible 3 pile ending.

Yes, this is something I forgot to add - when a 3 pile can happen fast (i.e. engine mirror), the VP can matter a lot because you don't have to waste buys picking up VP.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2569
  • Respect: +2442
    • View Profile
0

Hmmm - I haven't played with empires, but this is interesting. Wouldn't it make more sense for baths to give 2VP when you end your turn without buying any cards? Kinda like alms-for-island but not really at all, that's a ridiculous analogy.
Logged

aku_chi

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 370
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +623
    • View Profile
+4

i disagree though that the most powerful of these don't "wildly change how you approach a board" - sometimes they can. Battlefield's presence alone is a big Rebuild buff - A non-mirrored Rebuild player can EASILY get at least 10 of the VP, and that's a huge amount of VP in a Rebuild game where the Duchies have been melted away.

To add onto this, Battlefield also makes Alt-VP rushes (especially Silk Road, Gardens, and Mill) a lot stronger.  In a non-mirror, the opponent has to go way out of their way to grab more than 2 Battlefield VP against the rusher.  Battlefield can also power up Duchy or Estate rush strategies like those featuring Ill-Gotten Gains or Replace.  I believe Battlefield is clearly the most impactful Landmark of the bunch.

The importance of changing your plays to grab the Landmark VP depends significantly on the payload of the board.  On a board where you can play multiple Goons per turn, for instance, you generally shouldn't deviate at all from optimal building - even if that means losing the Colonnade points 2 - 10; it will be easy to make up those points and then some if you're building better for a Goons megaturn.  These Landmarks have the lowest impact on boards with explosive megaturn payload, or plentiful alternative VP (e.g. Goons, Groundskeeper, Wild Hunt, Triumph, Colony, Vineyard).  On the other hand, in a single-gain money game, every point advantage counts.  In a boring money mirror game, the player who gets 4 Baths VP by forgoing a third Silver and first Duchy will have a potentially game-winning VP advantage over their opponent.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 09:53:47 am by aku_chi »
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1936
  • Respect: +1922
    • View Profile
+1

Impromptu trivia question: How many people here noticed that I forgot to mention Battlefield in the title?
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9158
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +8937
    • View Profile
0

Impromptu trivia question: How many people here noticed that I forgot to mention Battlefield in the title?

90-93

Omastar68

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 78
  • Shuffle iT Username: Omastar68
  • Respect: +34
    • View Profile
0

I agree with the general opinion of Battlefield being the most important of these. If it's not the kind of game where you're going to be buying victory cards then these don't matter so much anyways. That said Basilica is my favorite. I usually get most of it, I think a lot of people feel compelled to buy the most expensive thing they can afford and that's often not the best thing anyways. 2 Buys of 4 should be 2 2s if they're good. Pages, Peasants w/ some kind of village, CotR, Hamlet, etc. That's often the case anyways. 7 is some kind of 5 most of the time, not Gold. If there's a good 6 or 7 then maybe that instead. These are fun to think about, I like them for the most part. Mostly the only issues are Baths isn't very important and Arena can cause slowness w/ undos(I never say no and do it too.)
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.092 seconds with 20 queries.